(Un)Official FFVII Tier List

[OWA-2]

Omega Weapon = the Lifestream > everything else.

And what about Jenova? Something I've never understood, Sephiroth is a human injected with Jenova in the womb. Surely this would make him less powerful than Jenova itself? (Yeah I know hes not) It just doesn't really make much sense.

If I add water to juice I'm going to get a watered down juice that isn't as strong. I'm no geneticist, but why should Sephiroth be any different?

The way I see it, by combining two races in a single being, this hybrid inherits the abilities/powers/qualities of both races, becoming superior to each one. Well, at least in the FF series...
That would explain why characters like Aerith(post-death), Cecil, Golbez, and Terra are stronger than normal Cetras/Lunarians/Espers.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Sorry.

It's my fault for not explaining properly.




There's the root of the problem.

I believe Zack reached his peak after the experiments.

Why?

Because before them, he was just a regular SOLDIER with J-Cells.

After them, he became a Sephiroth Copy(albeitedly, with S-Cells les pure than Cloud's or Sephiroth's).

And we know S-Cells are a stronger strain than either the G-Cell and the J-Cell strain.




I think before facing Genesis is when Zack reached his peak, because of above experiments.



I dunno about others but I got the impression that he was around on par with FFVII Sephiroth.

Of course, i have nothing to back that upo except for portrayal.

Or who knows? Kadaj might be stronger than him. He is after all a part of the strongest being in the universe.



Yes the quote is referral to Cloud's strenght in AC compared to the parties. Still, It also speaks volumes about how stronger not only Cloud got, but Sephiroth as well.

I mostly use It to factualy prove that Cloud IS stronger than Chaos(because; believe me, there are tons of people who know jack-shit about the compilation and claim otherwise).

This is just Vincent himself claiming to be weaker than Cloud while he has full control of Chaos. Since Dirge tells us he used Chaos in FFVII, and could control It perfectly at the start of DoC. Meaning he probably gained full control of the beast at the end of FFVII.




Yea, lol.

The Reunion File's full of rant over It.

They especially say they put so little Yazoo because his hair is a pain in the ass to animate in battle and expensive as hell because it has to be animated manually. So you can imagine the more liberties they take on a game's rendered cutscenes than on the expensive CGI movie.

Actually, its been shown that S-cells are functionally the same as J-cells. Theres not really a difference.

Besides, Zack himself states that he's weaker after fighting some grunts. Given that theres very few points past that where he could spring back it seems implausible that he ever surpasses his previous level of strength. At best he might have regained his former strength.

Now as for Kadaj's power versus Genesis, I'm inclined to accept Genesis as being stronger. Sephiroth was stronger than Zack at his peak, and Genesis, at least int erms of magic, could rival Sephiroth. Granted that was before CC, and its entirely possible Sephiroth grew stronger between then and Nibelheim, so I suppose Kadaj could be Genesis's better. I don't think so however.

Now I don't doubt Cloud is stronger than Chaos. In fact I'm certain there is a sizable difference. Its worth keeping in mind however that AC occurs before DOC, and therefore before Vincent gains control over Chaos, so it is possible he wasn't taking Chaos into account, due to Chaos being more or less a loose canon at the time.

I also agree it says a lot about Cloud's own increase in strength, and possibly Sephiroth's s well. What I would debate is precisely how much it says.

 

[Wolfmania]

Actually, its been shown that S-cells are functionally the same as J-cells. Theres not really a difference.

Hm, when was this shown?

Genesis couldn't cure himself with regular J-Cells. Otherwise he wouldn't need Sephiroth's or Cloud's pure S-Cells.

The way I see It, is the S-Cell strain is the strongest. Which is why Sephiroth became so strong, coupled with his spirit and skills.

Besides, Zack himself states that he's weaker after fighting some grunts. Given that theres very few points past that where he could spring back it seems implausible that he ever surpasses his previous level of strength. At best he might have regained his former strength.

I don't know.

He did beat Genesis Avatar, who should be stronger than what he formerly was.

Now as for Kadaj's power versus Genesis, I'm inclined to accept Genesis as being stronger. Sephiroth was stronger than Zack at his peak, and Genesis, at least int erms of magic, could rival Sephiroth. Granted that was before CC, and its entirely possible Sephiroth grew stronger between then and Nibelheim, so I suppose Kadaj could be Genesis's better. I don't think so however.

I think Kadaj should at the very least be CC Sephiroth's rival. Being what he is. And considering he owned a stigmatized Cloud in 5 hits flat.

And again, Vincent and the Reunion Files imply he's as strong as FFVII Seph.

Now I don't doubt Cloud is stronger than Chaos. In fact I'm certain there is a sizable difference. Its worth keeping in mind however that AC occurs before DOC, and therefore before Vincent gains control over Chaos, so it is possible he wasn't taking Chaos into account, due to Chaos being more or less a loose canon at the time.

See, this is where you are entierly incorrect.

Vincent had control of Chaos at the very start of DoC, before losing the protomateria.

DoC is about him re-gaining control of Chaos.

So Vince did have control of Chaos at AC, if he had It before even interacting with DoC's plot(and DoC was made with AC; there's even an entry of the game describing It's plot and characters in the Reunion Files).

Besides, his quote came with the 10th anniversary Ultimania; after DoC's launch.

I also agree it says a lot about Cloud's own increase in strength, and possibly Sephiroth's s well. What I would debate is precisely how much it says.

Yes that'd be highly debatable.

Although I did hear a quote that told us that everyone in the movie would be maxed out at lv 99, Cloud and Sephiroth would be beyond lv 100.

Just heard that in another forum.

 

[Lord Noctis]

I worded that poorly. It would be more accurate to say that there is nothing that does suggest that S-cells are stronger According to the CC Key word guide on this site all S-cells are are J-cells treated by Hojo for the Sephiroth clones.

As for Genesis Avatar being stronger that isn't saying a whole lot, given that Genesis's degredation was literally rotting his body away. By the time Zack fights Genesis at the end of the game, Genesis is likely at his weakest point not counting his Avatar form.

As far as Chaos goes, I'll concede the point there.

Now regarding Kadaj beating the infected Cloud. I'm not sure that says as much as you think itdoes. Let me explain. For one thing, we have no idea exactly how much Geostigma weakens Cloud, or what effect it has on its stamina. We do know that Cloud engaged Loz and Yazoo in a heated battle, and seemed to be at a disadvantadge before fighting Kadaj, so he was likely worn out as a result. Theres also Cloud's depression to consider, which would only further weaken his preformance in battle.

Like I said, I perssonaly rate Kadaj as being slightly below Zack's level at Nibelheim, which still puts him well above your average First. Now physicly, I don't think Zack is to far behind Sephiroth. Sephiroth did seem to be getting a little frustrated when Zack dodges his strikes, and it took him a few momentsto overpower Zack in a direct clash. So on a percentage scale where Nibel Sephiroth=100% I would say Zack is around 80%, and Kadaj is around 78%. Thats just my speculation however.

Now its true the reunion files imply that Kadaj could be that strong, it doesn't directly confirm it. They say they made Kadaj evil as all hell to help him fill the villian roll, which I suppose is true.

But still, I just don't see Kadaj being that strong.

 

[Wolfmania]

I worded that poorly. It would be more accurate to say that there is nothing that does suggest that S-cells are stronger According to the CC Key word guide on this site all S-cells are are J-cells treated by Hojo for the Sephiroth clones.

Stronger? Maybe not. That's my speculation based on Sephiroth becoming the strongest and Cloud being able to replicate some of his power.

But I'm pretty sure they are different froma regular SOLDIER's J-Cells. Otherwise Genesis wouldn't be searching the world for the last remaining ones when he has an army of SOLDIERS with him.

As for Genesis Avatar being stronger that isn't saying a whole lot, given that Genesis's degredation was literally rotting his body away. By the time Zack fights Genesis at the end of the game, Genesis is likely at his weakest point not counting his Avatar form.

Hm, yes that does make sense.

Still, Genesis Avatar is undoubtedly his strongest form.

Zack had to at least recovered his former strenght to face that. Even if CC Seph might be stronger.

Now regarding Kadaj beating the infected Cloud. I'm not sure that says as much as you think itdoes. Let me explain. For one thing, we have no idea exactly how much Geostigma weakens Cloud, or what effect it has on its stamina. We do know that Cloud engaged Loz and Yazoo in a heated battle, and seemed to be at a disadvantadge before fighting Kadaj, so he was likely worn out as a result. Theres also Cloud's depression to consider, which would only further weaken his preformance in battle.

Ok, yes. Geostigma does hamper the user ALOT and he was emotionally shit bagged.

However, I'm actually basing Kadaj's power more on his portrayal and statements, also including what he is.

Like I said, I perssonaly rate Kadaj as being slightly below Zack's level at Nibelheim, which still puts him well above your average First. Now physicly, I don't think Zack is to far behind Sephiroth. Sephiroth did seem to be getting a little frustrated when Zack dodges his strikes, and it took him a few momentsto overpower Zack in a direct clash. So on a percentage scale where Nibel Sephiroth=100% I would say Zack is around 80%, and Kadaj is around 78%. Thats just my speculation however.

Yea well speculation is the best we can do on some instances.

I just think he's much stronger, because of other factors.

Now its true the reunion files imply that Kadaj could be that strong, it doesn't directly confirm it. They say they made Kadaj evil as all hell to help him fill the villian roll, which I suppose is true.

Yea but what makes me truely wonder is not only them implying he is as powerful as FFVII, but Vincent calling him a "larval" form of AC Sephiroth.

But, again, speculation. I can't confirm It.

Well It's been pretty fun. Ima go to sleep now, well discuss this tomorrow

 

[Lord Noctis]

Stronger? Maybe not. That's my speculation based on Sephiroth becoming the strongest and Cloud being able to replicate some of his power.

But I'm pretty sure they are different froma regular SOLDIER's J-Cells. Otherwise Genesis wouldn't be searching the world for the last remaining ones when he has an army of SOLDIERS with him.




Hm, yes that does make sense.

Still, Genesis Avatar is undoubtedly his strongest form.

Zack had to at least recovered his former strenght to face that. Even if CC Seph might be stronger.



Ok, yes. Geostigma does hamper the user ALOT and he was emotionally shit bagged.

However, I'm actually basing Kadaj's power more on his portrayal and statements, also including what he is.




Yea well speculation is the best we can do on some instances.

I just think he's much stronger, because of other factors.



Yea but what makes me truely wonder is not only them implying he is as powerful as FFVII, but Vincent calling him a "larval" form of AC Sephiroth.

But, again, speculation. I can't confirm It.

Well It's been pretty fun. Ima go to sleep now, well discuss this tomorrow

Well, IIRC Genesis was after the S-cells because Hollander told him to. But, how does Hollander know that S-cells would do the trick when he's never had a chance to study them (As far as we know)? IMO Hollander was mostly speculating, trying to keep himself useful so Genesis din't kill him off. Of course, Hollander would also be pretty desperate to find a cure since he himself was degrading by that point.

And yeah, it is possible Zack recovered his strength from Nibelheim, I just don't think he surpassed it to any significant degree. I also agree that Genesis Avatar was likely Genesis'most powerful form.

I'n largely basing my view of Kadaj's strength based on his preformance. While he is shown to be very strong, I just don't think he's as strong as Sephiroth.

But yeah, speculation is often the best we can do. From that viewpoint I suppose both of our interpretations could be valid in their own way.

As for being a larval form of Sephiroth, that doesn't really refference his strength. Its more that he is essentially Sephiroth's will given physical form along with its own mind. When the J-cells are introduced Sephiroth is able to revive himself, and a large portion of the power he gains likely has more to do with his own undiluted will and J-cells, coupled with his control of the Negative lifestream as a whole, as opposed to Kadaj's own strength.

Anyway, enjoy your sleep. I look forward to continuing this.

 

[Roger]

Explanation of what Cloud and Zack were injected with just changed in Crisis Core. In the original it was just Jenova's cells, here it's Sephiroth's cells, or S-cells. Not too complicated. But nevertheless, it never had an effect on Zack. His treatment was an utter failure. receiving Mako showers for 4 years may have increased his strength though. If I had to give an in universe explanation for why only Cloud glows during his limit breaks in the compilation, that'd be it too. Limit Breaks call upon a person spirit energy and as a result of his Mako treatment and becoming a traveller of the lifestream for a week, he has more spirit energy then anyone, save Sephiroth.

 

[Wolfmania]

Well, IIRC Genesis was after the S-cells because Hollander told him to. But, how does Hollander know that S-cells would do the trick when he's never had a chance to study them (As far as we know)? IMO Hollander was mostly speculating, trying to keep himself useful so Genesis din't kill him off. Of course, Hollander would also be pretty desperate to find a cure since he himself was degrading by that point.

Exactly. Hollander was looking for Cloud as well, after his pure S-Cells.

So yea, they can cure degradation while normal J-Cells can't, but them being stronger may be just speculation on my part considering the SOLDIERS with S-Cells ended up being the strongest(Cloud, Zack and Seph).

And yeah, it is possible Zack recovered his strength from Nibelheim, I just don't think he surpassed it to any significant degree. I also agree that Genesis Avatar was likely Genesis'most powerful form.

Yea, I'll have to research more here.

I'n largely basing my view of Kadaj's strength based on his preformance. While he is shown to be very strong, I just don't think he's as strong as Sephiroth.

But yeah, speculation is often the best we can do. From that viewpoint I suppose both of our interpretations could be valid in their own way.

I don't think Kadaj performed badly...

He did react to Cloud's faster-than-lightning speed dash.

Even though Cloud one-shot him with a braver when he got remotely serious, I think that's just proof of Cloud's strenght, not Kadaj's weakness.

As for being a larval form of Sephiroth, that doesn't really refference his strength. Its more that he is essentially Sephiroth's will given physical form along with its own mind. When the J-cells are introduced Sephiroth is able to revive himself, and a large portion of the power he gains likely has more to do with his own undiluted will and J-cells, coupled with his control of the Negative lifestream as a whole, as opposed to Kadaj's own strength.

The only thing Kadaj lacks is a physical body, so that might be a detriment to some of his power, but he is a manifestation of Sephiroth's will, he actually is Sephiroth, but just in another place.

And Kadaj held some control over the Negative Lifestream, which is how the SHM created they're weapons, clothes, and shadow creepers.

Explanation of what Cloud and Zack were injected with just changed in Crisis Core. In the original it was just Jenova's cells, here it's Sephiroth's cells, or S-cells. Not too complicated. But nevertheless, it never had an effect on Zack. His treatment was an utter failure. receiving Mako showers for 4 years may have increased his strength though. If I had to give an in universe explanation for why only Cloud glows during his limit breaks in the compilation, that'd be it too. Limit Breaks call upon a person spirit energy and as a result of his Mako treatment and becoming a traveller of the lifestream for a week, he has more spirit energy then anyone, save Sephiroth.

Yea, but that aspect was totally ret-conned by CC, just like Chaos was totally ret-conned by DoC.

The experiments were ineffective on Zack? How do we know this? I might concede on this point if that's true.

As for only Cloud glowing, It's most probable that in AC they only gave him the glow to save money. His comrades all used limits but don't glow. Of course, Sephiroth probably wouldn't glow because of his lifestream covering the city, which was already connected to his soul, there'd be no need to glow; as he was visually preparing himself to parry the omnislash.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Don't getme wrong, I'm not trying to say Kadaj is weak or a bad fighter. On the contrary the fact that he can fight Cloud at all is very impressive to me. He is good, and does know what he's doing, I don'tcontest that. I only contest that his strength could rival FFVII Sephiroth.

Now, while it is true that Kadaj has some control over the NL, I doubt its anywhere near as much conrol as Sephiroth. Kadaj ca manipulate itto some degree,but Sephiroth has full control of it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Omega Weapon = the Lifestream > everything else.

Technically, Omega Weapon was not the full lifestream, nor was what was fought the whole of Omega Weapon.

The way I see it, by combining two races in a single being, this hybrid inherits the abilities/powers/qualities of both races, becoming superior to each one. Well, at least in the FF series...
That would explain why characters like Aerith(post-death), Cecil, Golbez, and Terra are stronger than normal Cetras/Lunarians/Espers.

Actually, I don't think anything in the games suggests they are more powerful than their full bred parents, and if they are, nothing suggests it's because of the mixed heritage. Certainly, they have unique situations, Terra especially, but apart from her, being of mixed race doesn't seem to make you notably different from either heritage.
Yuna, natch.

 

[Wolfmania]

Don't getme wrong, I'm not trying to say Kadaj is weak or a bad fighter. On the contrary the fact that he can fight Cloud at all is very impressive to me. He is good, and does know what he's doing, I don'tcontest that. I only contest that his strength could rival FFVII Sephiroth.

Now, while it is true that Kadaj has some control over the NL, I doubt its anywhere near as much conrol as Sephiroth. Kadaj ca manipulate itto some degree,but Sephiroth has full control of it.

Ah yes. I'm just saying this because some points indicate It.


Yes, he dosen't have full control like AC Seph, which is probably why he's so much weaker than AC Seph(also that AC Seph has a full Jenova body).

But It is something FFVII Sephiroth didn't have.


Also how can the Lifestream > all when Sephiroth's will could defy It and dominate It in End Of FFVII/AC?

 

[OWA-2]

Technically, Omega Weapon was not the full lifestream, nor was what was fought the whole of Omega Weapon.

Because it was incomplete(and corrupted, if we go by what the Ultimania said). But the complete and original Omega is the Lifestream. And logically, it should be the strongest thing in FFVII.

Actually, I don't think anything in the games suggests they are more powerful than their full bred parents, and if they are, nothing suggests it's because of the mixed heritage. Certainly, they have unique situations, Terra especially, but apart from her, being of mixed race doesn't seem to make you notably different from either heritage.
Yuna, natch.

Well, Aerith after dying did some things no other Cetra was capable of, Terra was allways kicking ass when she lost control of her powers(while other Espers were being one-shoted by Kefka, even before he obtained the power of the Triad), and Golbez was more impressive than FuSoYa and Zemus IMO(Zeromus is a complete different story though).
Yes, there's nothing concrete pointing out they are stronger because of the mixed heritage, but I think it's too much of a coincidence that all of the hybrids in the FF-verse show more power and more impressive feats than the other non-hybrid characters from their respective worlds.
Of course, this is just a theory.

 

[Wolfmania]

Because it was incomplete(and corrupted, if we go by what the Ultimania said). But the complete and original Omega is the Lifestream. And logically, it should be the strongest thing in FFVII.

Of course not.

Where are you getting that the Omega WEAPON is the lifestream?

"Born from the Lifestream when the planet is on the brink of death, it takes all the life Chaos has gathered to the next planet."

It's a WEAPON like the others; a Mako construct born of the lifestream. Only It's function would be to take the lifestream with It to another planet after Chaos takes all life.

The person you are talking about is Minerva.

Minerva is the embodiment of the lifestream, the maker of It's will.

Not that she's even close to the strongest; FFVII Sephiroth's will was already above the planet.

 

[Roger]

The Lifestream fought Sephiroth and lost, by the time AC rolled around, it was all up to Cloud again. Sephiroth>Aerith, Omega, Minerva and the Lifestream. His only true rival is Cloud.

The experiments were ineffective on Zack? How do we know this? I might concede on this point if that's true.

In the original it is clearly said that Testsubject 1 had no reaction to the injection and was deemed a failure, ditto in Crisis Core (with the added explanation that Cloud was actually dying, explaining why Cloud was abandoned as well)

 

[ForceStealer]

That's one thing I've been a bit confused on. Cloud says that the process of making Sephiroth copies (Mako shower + Jenova cells) was no different than the procedure used on new members of SOLDIER. The difference being that these were normal civilians that had already gone through the trauma of Nibelheims destruction, making them vulnerable to Jenova's influence. Thus, that is why I figured the procedure had no effect on Zack as...he'd already had it done before and was obviously deemed mentally strong enough to handle it. So why did Hojo even attempt it?

 

[Lord Noctis]

So why did Hojo even attempt it?

Because he's an equal oppurtunist. He does not discriminate.

 

[ForceStealer]

I guess, I mean maybe he thought his defeat at Sephiroth's hands would disillusion him enough to be susceptible or something. Although, theoretically, if that were going to happen, it would have happened with the Jenova cells he already possessed.

 

[Wolfmania]

The Lifestream fought Sephiroth and lost, by the time AC rolled around, it was all up to Cloud again. Sephiroth>Aerith, Omega, Minerva and the Lifestream. His only true rival is Cloud.



In the original it is clearly said that Testsubject 1 had no reaction to the injection and was deemed a failure, ditto in Crisis Core (with the added explanation that Cloud was actually dying, explaining why Cloud was abandoned as well)

1) Absolutely correct. Both physicaly and spiritualy.

2) Hm.....alright, I concede to this point; also because Zack did say he was weaker at the start.

 

[Wolfmania]

However, Genesis outright says that the experiment by Hojo used a modified version of Jenova's power.

5:40 onwards.

 

[OWA-2]

Of course not.

Where are you getting that the Omega WEAPON is the lifestream?

"Born from the Lifestream when the planet is on the brink of death, it takes all the life Chaos has gathered to the next planet."

It's a WEAPON like the others; a Mako construct born of the lifestream. Only It's function would be to take the lifestream with It to another planet after Chaos takes all life.

The person you are talking about is Minerva.

Minerva is the embodiment of the lifestream, the maker of It's will.

I'm getting the idea that Omega is the Lifestream, from the friggin game. We see the Lifestream coming together and taking on Omega's form. Omega's body is literally made/composed of the Lifestream, therefore, it's the most powerful creature in FFVII.

Not that she's even close to the strongest; FFVII Sephiroth's will was already above the planet.

The Lifestream fought Sephiroth and lost, by the time AC rolled around, it was all up to Cloud again. Sephiroth>Aerith, Omega, Minerva and the Lifestream. His only true rival is Cloud.

In pure power? LOL No, he isn't.
Sephiroth's goal was allways to control the Lifestream(by absorbing or corrupting it), because even him knew it was something above him. He wanted to become one with it to "cease to exist as I am now, only to be reborn as a god to rule over every soul", or to use it's power to move the planet across the cosmos an crash on another planet with it.

If Sephiroth is as powerful as you guys say, he wouldn't need the Lifestream.

 

[Roger]

I'm getting the idea that Omega is the Lifestream, from the friggin game. We see the Lifestream coming together and taking on Omega's form. Omega's body is literally made/composed of the Lifestream, therefore, it's the most powerful creature in FFVII.

Omega is being made of Mako, Lifestream energy but he hardly IS the Lifestream. For that to be true, the Planet would actually be completely dead by the third last chapter of DoC.

In pure power? LOL No, he isn't.
Sephiroth's goal was allways to control the Lifestream(by absorbing or corrupting it), because even him knew it was something above him. He wanted to become one with it to "cease to exist as I am now, only to be reborn as a god to rule over every soul", or to use it's power to move the planet across the cosmos an crash on another planet with it.

If Sephiroth is as powerful as you guys say, he wouldn't need the Lifestream.

And he hadn't gotten there yet. But despite the Lifestream not yet being controlled by Sephiroth yet and it clearly being aware of the threat, it almost helpless to defend itself until the second Sephiroth was defeated, at which point it was suddenly able to spring into action and kick some Meteor ass.

 

[Wolfmania]

1)

:I

I suppose you don`t know that every single WEAPON is a mako construct. Formed from the lifestream.

Why do you even think the WEAPON exteded It`s tentacles into the reactors and started absorbing liestream?

The weapon isn`t the lifestream; It`s formed of corrupted lifestream from all the blood the DG SOLDIER`S shed.

Minerva is the sentient embodiment of the lifestream.

2)

Sephiroth`s will alone is above the lifesream in FFVII.

It could do squat even with Aerith`s help to stop Sephiroth from taking over It. It`s not a charcter It`s a source of power, which Sephiroth is above. But it is a nice addition to his power

Neither the Omega Weapon, Minerva, or any other construct by the planet could take on Cloud; much less Sephiroth.

 

[OWA-2]

Omega is being made of Mako, Lifestream energy but he hardly IS the Lifestream. For that to be true, the Planet would actually be completely dead by the third last chapter of DoC.

1) That still doesn't change what I said about Omega's 'ranking' on the tier list.
Omega's body(a body that Omega, obviously, have full control over) is composed of the entire source of magic, knowledge, life, and power in the FFVII-verse... Making it the strongest creature presented in the series.

2) AVALANCHE destroyed the Reactors before Omega could suck all of the Lifestream from them, so no, the planet wouldn't be dead by the end of DoC.
It was an incomplete Omega we saw.

And he hadn't gotten there yet. But despite the Lifestream not yet being controlled by Sephiroth yet and it clearly being aware of the threat, it almost helpless to defend itself until the second Sephiroth was defeated, at which point it was suddenly able to spring into action and kick some Meteor ass.

Sephiroth was holding back Holy, not the Lifestream. The Lifestream only kicked in after Holy's failure to destroy Meteor.

1)

:I

I suppose you don`t know that every single WEAPON is a mako construct. Formed from the lifestream.

Created by the Lifestream, but not composed of it like Omega was. And even if they were, the complete Omega is supposed to be formed of the entire Lifestream of the planet. Comparing it's power to that of a normal Weapon is laughable.

Why do you even think the WEAPON exteded It`s tentacles into the reactors and started absorbing liestream?

The weapon isn`t the lifestream; It`s formed of corrupted lifestream from all the blood the DG SOLDIER`S shed.

DG SOLDIERs started killing people to trick the Planet into thinking the world was going to end, and summon Omega. And when Omega was awakened, it started to suck all the Lifestream it could, not only the souls of the people killed by DG.
And it was a little corrupted due to Nero's(who merged with Weiss) Stagnant Lifestream. Nothing more.

Minerva is the sentient embodiment of the lifestream.

IIRC it says that Minerva represents the will of the Planet. And the same thing was said about Holy, so...

2)

Sephiroth`s will alone is above the lifesream in FFVII.

It could do squat even with Aerith`s help to stop Sephiroth from taking over It. It`s not a charcter It`s a source of power, which Sephiroth is above. But it is a nice addition to his power

Sephiroth's will in FFVII helped his soul to 'survive' in the Lifestream, and to hold back Holy.

And again, if Sephiroth was above it, he wouldn't need to take control over it.

You understand that the "Lifestream/Omega is not a character, but a source of power" argument can be used for Jenova too, right?

Neither the Omega Weapon, Minerva, or any other construct by the planet could take on Cloud; much less Sephiroth.

Okay, now this is pure wank.

 

[ForceStealer]

Firstly, we know nothing about Minerva's powers, CC's option boss notwithstanding, she's likely she's just an avatar and can't do much of anything in and of herself.

But if Cloud could have taken on Omega, he would have. He didn't leave it to Vincent just to give the guy something to do. Vincent, or more accurately, Chaos, was the only being that could stop Omega.

 

[Wolfmania]

Created by the Lifestream, but not composed of it like Omega was. And even if they were, the complete Omega is supposed to be formed of the entire Lifestream of the planet. Comparing it's power to that of a normal Weapon is laughable.

Now I know that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Omega is a construct OF the lifestream.

It's job is to COLLECT the lifestream after Chaos killed everyone, and take it to another planet.

It's NOT the lifestream. That notion is nothing short of ridiculous.

DG SOLDIERs started killing people to trick the Planet into thinking the world was going to end, and summon Omega. And when Omega was awakened, it started to suck all the Lifestream it could, not only the souls of the people killed by DG.
And it was a little corrupted due to Nero's(who merged with Weiss) Stagnant Lifestream. Nothing more.

Wrong.

Nomura stated It was corrupt due to the method of It's creation. Which was by killing people.

It started to suck lifestream because It's job is to TRANSPORT lifestream to another planet. It was fufilling said job.

Again, It's not the lifestream.

IIRC it says that Minerva represents the will of the Planet. And the same thing was said about Holy, so..

So?

Holy adheres to the will of the planet.

Minerva is the actual manifestation of It.

You really have no clue what you are talking about.

Sephiroth's will in FFVII helped his soul to 'survive' in the Lifestream, and to hold back Holy.

And again, if Sephiroth was above it, he wouldn't need to take control over it.

You understand that the "Lifestream/Omega is not a character, but a source of power" argument can be used for Jenova too, right?

Survive?

He outright defied absorption in the lifestream and came back to life in FFVII.

He held the planet's judgement with his will alone.

Sephiroth IS above the lifestream, the CREATOR'S say so themselves. Hell he was going to fully bend It to his will and absorb It.

In AC, his mere presence there corrupted It to the point that without Cloud; the planet would be doomed.

Your last statement makes no sense, the lifestream's embodiment is Minerva; Jenova is a planet-destroying alien.

Okay, now this is pure wank.

Oh, gosh. I'm sorry, I didn't know you knew more than the CREATOR'S on they're own series.

"Producer Kitase decided that they couldn’t make any other character stronger than Sephiroth in the world of FFVII." - http://ffviinovels.lhyeung.net/ffacinfo/commentary.php

"Even after appearing in so many titles, Sephiroth's true power is unknown. It's stated in the official book Reunion Files that the Sephiroth seen in Advent Children has ascended to a new level of existence and is much stronger than before. Though he was defeated, Sephiroth never used the full extent of his powers in the final fight against Cloud, and because of that, his true potential is still unknown. Advent Children producer Yoshinori Kitase has said, Sephiroth's existence and will is extremely powerful. There is nothing stronger, nothing above him." - http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Sephiroth

"When everyone wants to support Cloud, Vincent commands them to put their trust in Cloud's hands. Not wanting to interfere, he believes that only Cloud has the power to destroy the curse from the past.
" - http://ultimania.ff7compilation.net/profile/vincent.php

No, that's just the creator's opinion, bro.

But if Cloud could have taken on Omega, he would have. He didn't leave it to Vincent just to give the guy something to do. Vincent, or more accurately, Chaos, was the only being that could stop Omega.

I'm not buying this.

So if AC Seph were there, he could not have defeated the WEAPON?

Chaos couldn't do squat to Sephiroth in AC, only Cloud could. Heck Cloud outright overpowered Omega's attack on Chaos with a simple slash.

And, maybe don't you think they wouldn't give Cloud the spot-light in Vince's own game?

Vincent outright told Cloud not to worry himself, to leave it to him.

Being so, Cloud trusted his friend, and did not intervene.