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VII REBIRTH RELEASES FEB 29! NEW TRAILER!

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
It makes me wonder about some future super release after part 3 is done tha stitches all the games into one absurd release.
I've thought about how, by the time this whole thing ends, maybe they'll need to remaster FFVII Remake in order to give it parity with with Parts 2 and 3. Especially the combat.
It would be wild to see a Legendary Edition where things are trimmed and shifted to make it one enormous game, with Red XIII becoming playable in Shinra HQ, perhaps a slower level progression; perhaps the synergy attack mechanic is still introduced in the flashback, and whatever innovations happen in P3 wait until their introductory bits.

Yeah, a Legendary Edition… While we’re at it, we can trim out a lot of the walkathons and crawl loaders in Midgar. :wacky:

Total pipedream, but it’s not impossible (I have some truly impossible pipedreams lol)
 
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cold_spirit

he/him
AKA
Alex T
I'm not sure how one can play Chapter 18 of Remake and come away thinking that Aerith will still die. The final boss literally shows images of her death over the message "we can change fate". Imma leave it at that. The question has been discussed for 3.5 years, just need to wait 5 more months for the answer.
 
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Theozilla

Kaiju Member
I'm not sure how one can play Chapter 18 of Remake and come away thinking that Aerith will still die. The final boss literally shows images of her death with the message "we can change fate". Imma leave it at that. The question has been discussed for 3.5 years, just need to wait 5 more months for the answer.
It also showed images of not just Aerith's death but of Meteor approaching The Planet after being summoned and Red XIII and his cubs, yet I don't see anyone trying to claim meteor isn't going to be summoned and/or Red XIII won't end up surviving into the future have cubs. If the devs are repeatedly stating that general overall OG story isn't being changed, that more likely means you've interpreted the meaning of Chapter 18 incorrectly.
 
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LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
With them confirming the Forgotten City being where Rebirth ends, I'm still holding out hope for Cloud being the final boss. It would still make sense for it to happen. Especially if he's the one that does the deed (wink wink)
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
I doubt Cloud will be the one to kill Aerith, not when the sequence of Sephiroth impaling Aeirth is such an iconic moment in gaming history. No way SE isn't going give their all to remaking that cutscene.
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
I know I was completely, egregiously guilty of this too, but I feel like it's a lot more conducive to good discussion to not post every new dev quote to validate what you think the project should be over what others are saying every time they say anything. Recent developments proved me wrong in many regards, and with sufficient egg on my face, I think it's better to just take it all in stride and just wait and see what happens. It'll be great regardless, I'm sure of that much.
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
I doubt Cloud will be the one to kill Aerith, not when the sequence of Sephiroth impaling Aeirth is such an iconic moment in gaming history. No way SE isn't going give their all to remaking that cutscene.

While I do think going the OG route is the more likely choice, I still think Cloud doing it is a possibility. As evidenced by Remake, SE is definitely open to changing exactly how things are done.

This would be Rebirth's iconic moment, and not what was already shown in the OG.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
While I do think going the OG route is the more likely choice, I still think Cloud doing it is a possibility. As evidenced by Remake, SE is definitely open to changing exactly how things are done.

This would be Rebirth's iconic moment, and not what was already shown in the OG.
I could see it having additive changes to it, like how the opening cutscene of the Remake was done, but I doubt the one of the most iconic images from the sequence is going to be wholesale replaced.
 

cold_spirit

he/him
AKA
Alex T
If the devs are repeatedly stating that general overall OG story isn't being changed, that more likely means you've interpreted the meaning of Chapter 18 incorrectly.

Well, for the record I don't think anyone can claim to be correct or incorrect since this is an ongoing story, but I'll try to meet you halfway.

Being the penultimate title of the Remake Project (and seemingly of the Compilation as a whole), I can see Aerith dying as a way to "set the stakes" for the final act. Perhaps the party learns of her death and fights to prevent it, but they ultimately fail. "Knowing your fate doesn't mean you have the strength to change it" kind of thing.

But Remake's message and new story elements has opened some doors. Like, there's a reason this is even a discussion point. It's been engineered. Fans aren't pulling it out of thin air.

I can see the story going a lot of different ways. We have multiple worlds to consider, so maybe some of them lead to AC / DC, and some don't. Maybe Aerith dies, but is resurrected at the end of Part 3. Maybe this. Maybe that.

But also, can her death truly be perserved anymore? I mean emotionally. Let's say she does die. With Remake's theme of "changing fate", has it not already been recontextualized in some way? So I ask myself, what are we even preserving at this point?

I feel like fans are hyper focused on preserving the fact of Aerith's death, and not the meaning behind it, which I personally don't think can ever be recaptured.

Ah shoot, I said I'd let it be, and then I didn't.
 
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LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
I could see it having additive changes to it, like how the opening cutscene of the Remake was done, but I doubt the one of the most iconic images from the sequence is going to be wholesale replaced.
I don't look at it as replacing though. While yes, we won't visually see Sephiroth (he is technically still in NC at that point anyway) doing it, he would still be controlling it. Idk. This is too good of an opportunity to pass up establishing a new/fresh iconic moment. While I'll still enjoy whatever they do, I'd be disappointed if they didn't lean all the way in on Sephiroth controlling Cloud.
 
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Theozilla

Kaiju Member
I don't look at it as replacing though. While yes, we won't visually see Sephiroth (he is technically still in NC at that point anyway) doing it, he would still be controlling it. Idk. This is too good of an opportunity to pass up establishing a new/fresh iconic moment. While I'll still enjoy whatever they do, I'd be disappointed if they didn't lean all the way in on Sephiroth controlling Cloud.
I think you’re underestimating the importance of how iconic certain visual imagery can be. Aerith’s death is specifically remembered with the specific imagery of Sephiroth impaling Aerith. Regardless of whether Sephiroth is controlling Cloud or not misses the point. That still changes the visual construction of that moment. It’s as iconic as Sephiroth glaring and walking through the burning flames. Certain moments are far too iconic in the specificity of their construction to be changed like that. Even Before Crisis/Last Order which changed Sephiroth jumping into the reactor from being thrown in, still kept the iconic moment of Cloud lifting up Sephiroth by the Masamune (and Sephiroth not letting go of it) and throwing him off.
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
I think you’re underestimating the importance of how iconic certain visual imagery can be. Aerith’s death is specifically remembered with the specific imagery of Sephiroth impaling Aerith. Regardless of whether Sephiroth is controlling Cloud or not misses the point. That still changes the visual construction of that moment. It’s as iconic as Sephiroth glaring and walking through the burning flames. Certain moments are far too iconic in the specificity of their construction to be changed like that. Even Before Crisis/Last Order which changed Sephiroth jumping into the reactor from being thrown in, still kept the iconic moment of Cloud lifting up Sephiroth by the Masamune (and Sephiroth not letting go of it) and throwing him off.

It's been 25+ years though. SE has obviously shown with their approach in the Remake trilogy that they are willing to change it up. No matter how iconic scenes are. As an example, the Masamune impaled in President Shinra was changed.

I get what you're saying about visual construction though. Yes, it'll change what we visually see, but when it comes down to it, what matters more is the impact imo. There's a reason why a 1:1 Remake wasn't done. If they chose to take the route I'm suggesting, it would be impactful to new players and OG players. If they go the OG route, it'll mostly just impact new players.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
If anything, 25 years only cements its iconography deeper. :monster:

They're willing to "change things up" to a degree but they've so far not made any attempt to remove iconic moments from the story. They've expanded or moved them around but wholesale deleting?

I wouldn't say the Masamune impaling President Shinra is that an iconic moment either. And if anything, we still got it. We just got to see it happen :monster:

Actually the most iconic moment we lost though would be Jenova's trail of blood and the bodies left behind and that happened because of censorship. But alas...
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
If anything, 25 years only cements its iconography deeper

To some fans, sure.

They're willing to "change things up" to a degree but they've so far not made any attempt to remove iconic moments from the story. They've expanded or moved them around but wholesale deleting?

I'm not advocating for the scene being deleted though. I'm advocating for Cloud being manipulated into doing it. He already came close to doing it anyway. I would just prefer they take it a step further. This would be expanding it. The main hero being forced to kill the main heroine. That'll become even more iconic, which imo, is what SE is going for with this trilogy. Like I said, they never wanted to do a 1:1. That's boring to them. They want this trilogy to remembered separate from the OG. If they went the route I'm suggesting, this would 100 percent accomplish that.

I wouldn't say the Masamune impaling President Shinra is that an iconic moment either.

That's fair. Many would disagree with you though. I don't believe Sephiroth killing Aerith is all that iconic. What means more to me, is the fact that we lost Aerith very unexpectedly.
 

cold_spirit

he/him
AKA
Alex T
My favorite part of the OG is Kalm to the Forgotten Capital. There's such great momentum. Every step is of the way is some new locale to explore, a new character to recruit, or a new story to hear. That, and of course the world map. I'm especially fond of the music. The open area between the Mythril Mine and Junon is peak FFVII to me. It just does something to my brain, I have to stop and take it in. A lot of my playthroughs just end there!

Leading up to Remake's release, I remember a particularly drunk night with my brother where we talked about FFVII in general. He was surprised I didn't take time off to play the game and how I didn't seem that excited. I said, "well, to me, FFVII is beyond Midgar". Even leading up to Remake's release, I was more excited for Part 2. I've wanted to know for so long how they're going to handle the world map. Before we really became aware of the story deviations, that to me was the project's most interesting question.

Playing Remake tempered my expectations. I thought they would just go for "wide hallways". Wider than Remake's, but still linear. I couldn't dream of riding the Tiny Bronco between continents.

I try to play a wide variety of series each year. But 2024 is going to be different. I'm going to sit with Rebirth. Yesterday's TGS showcase featured a rendition of the Main Theme that dynamically changes as you enter battle. For me personally, that stood out the most. The main theme, a melody capable of stopping me in my tracks in the the OG, brought to new heights. I can't wait.

A world where the OG is no longer my favorite game might just exist. That title of course being passed to Rebirth.
 
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KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
I’m definitely one of those who’s all for Cloud killing Aerith, though I’ll admit it’d be tricky to reconcile that with not having the iconic imagery of Sephiroth stabbing Aerith.

Maybe Sephiroth still stabs Aerith but the twist is that she survives this time, only for Cloud to finish her off later?

Or if Aerith’s fate is anything other than what happens in the OG, maybe at some point they can still work in a way to give us a glimpse or a vision of what Aerith’s fate was “supposed” to be before defeating destiny? The timeline stuff certainly presents a lot of ways to approach this.

Missed posting here with y’all btw. :properhug:
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
I’m definitely one of those who’s all for Cloud killing Aerith, though I’ll admit it’d be tricky to reconcile that with not having the iconic imagery of Sephiroth stabbing Aerith.

I was wondering where you were at my fellow supporter of Cloud killing Aerith haha


Or if Aerith’s fate is anything other than what happens in the OG, maybe at some point they can still work in a way to give us a glimpse or a vision of what Aerith’s fate was “supposed” to be before defeating destiny? The timeline stuff certainly presents a lot of ways to approach this.

Ooohh, I like the idea. I'll take that the opposite direction though. Maybe Sephiroth can show Cloud visions of what could've happened if he HAD saved Aerith. I'm sure that would send him into even more of a spiral and break.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
So Vincent not playable? More than likely we don't see him till late in the game.

I know most didn't like the idea of him not being playable, but I've said since the Yuffie DLC that it would be a good idea to save him for the third game. 1. Gives them an opportunity to give him a DLC that connects him to DeepGround/Yuffie. 2. Gives us a new character to look forward to having in the third game.
Well at the moment they've stated that Rebirth won't get any DLC, and given the game's conclusion taking place at the Forgotten Capital, you really don't want to squeeze in any side story after that, as picking up directly from that point in the final game will be a large component to how that journey begins. With the end of Remake, it's a lot easier to have something like INTERmission that runs parallel to it and ends at the same point without feeling like it's leaving a massive resolution untouched. Even with Zack's mysterious ending, that's still a curiousity that's just further reinforced at its ending, whereas the Forgotten Capital doesn't really have a way to do that same thing in DLC.

Vincent not being playable is something that doesn't bother me as much given some of the new information that we've gotten about the Synergy system, and apparently how the non-active party remains involved in battles. When you're guarding, you get access to some abilities that don't require ATB to use, and apparently the "background" characters will occasionally still use those while the main cast is in combat, and you can see them running around during things like the Bottomswell (Terror of the Deep) battle. I like how this sets up so that the auxiliary party members feel like they're still participating in big moments, rather than just being arbitrarily split off into groups of 3 all the time.

With Vincent's overall hesitance towards being involved in things at all, combined with his lingering guilt about not being able to stop the experiments that lead to Sephiroth's creation, I expect that the Forgotten Capital will serve as a "wake up" moment for his involvement that'll be believable in him shifting from a passive participant to an active one, and also add in a bit more significance to why HE is the one who would be following Cloud to the Forgotten Capital in Advent Children, as there's a different type of weight and guilt that they both carry in different ways given what happens there.

With Cid, I expect him to be seen as the literal pilot for the team, and while he'll follow you around and help out with things that ensure that you can get to where you need to go, he's not fully committed to getting involved in the conflict. In the next game it'll be everything with space and Meteor that help to shift that into a more active role. After having characters like Biggs, Wedge, & Jessie in Remake who are important but not directly involved, I think that this sort of thing will feel totally natural in the presentation of the story despite how we initially perceive them coming from the OG.

The characters and developments of them don't feel as distinctly disconnected as playable characters and NPCs used to in older games, which is a big benefit as it makes it feel less off when they all take up differentiated roles in the ones who are combat allies to you, and the ones who are willing to lend you a hand like Chadley, or the ones who will tag along with you. Especially given that Red XIII contemplates departing from the party altogether before Bugenhagen convinces him to keep travelling with you, I expect that it won't feel as strange having some party members whose involvement takes time to build up, but also I think it'll help everyone in building up towards the "everybody leave and come back when you have your own individual reason to do this" moment in the final game before the endgame departure for North Crater.

Lastly, I'm properly curious what this ends up being like for the inclusion of other Compilation characters. I'd enjoy if Kunsel showed up around Fort Condor (since he was assigned there when Zack left for Nibelheim in Crisis Core, and Remake let us know he's still alive). I'm wondering if we'll end up encountering Cissnei in Gongaga, since she's supposed to have become friendly with Zack's parents even before he managed to make it there during his escape, and I assume she'd be keeping close tabs on them, not to mention you're supposed to have an encounter with the Turks there anyway.

I have to expect that the Wutai Interim Government that's supporting the Shinra Resistance Committee which seems to be allied with Glenn (and potentially the other P0 SOLDIER deployed to Rhadora with young Sephiroth) also have a connection to Chadley's desire to topple Shinra from within, as those elements will naturally lend themselves to leading towards the Deepground projects, and tie Vincent's & Yuffie's trajectories together for the next game in a way that feels more significant. I'm hoping that Roche will be around even if just so that we can see the progression of a known named SOLDIER going from slightly unhinged to a fully catatonic and cloaked Sephiroth copy.

There're just TONS of possibilities for what's to come still and the bits and pieces of confirmation around how characters are/aren't being involved in the game really helps to make the world feel more complete when it's not just a strict split between PCs & NPCs, but when there are characters whose partial participation still feels meaningfully significant in making them a fully realized piece of the world & story.




X :neo:
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
Well at the moment they've stated that Rebirth won't get any DLC, and given the game's conclusion taking place at the Forgotten Capital, you really don't want to squeeze in any side story after that, as picking up directly from that point in the final game will be a large component to how that journey begins. With the end of Remake, it's a lot easier to have something like INTERmission that runs parallel to it and ends at the same point without feeling like it's leaving a massive resolution untouched. Even with Zack's mysterious ending, that's still a curiousity that's just further reinforced at its ending, whereas the Forgotten Capital doesn't really have a way to do that same thing in DLC

I'm not suggesting DLC that would take place parallel to or after the FC though. I believe a DLC that shows more of vincent's backstory and connection to DG would work great. Especially since it's very likely, we'll get some more of DG in the 3rd game.



I agree that they'll likely give little hints here and there that connect to DG throughout the game, I would just like to see more in a DLC. Even though SE has no plans now, those plans can easily change in a year. Having one of both optional characters in the OG, makes perfect sense to do
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I'm not suggesting DLC that would take place parallel to or after the FC though. I believe a DLC that shows more of vincent's backstory and connection to DG would work great. Especially since it's very likely, we'll get some more of DG in the 3rd game.



I agree that they'll likely give little hints here and there that connect to DG throughout the game, I would just like to see more in a DLC. Even though SE has no plans now, those plans can easily change in a year. Having one of both optional characters in the OG, makes perfect sense to do

I'd expect all of those things to take place as a normal part of the next game, since it's already full of flashbacks to the early days of the Shinra Science Department in the OG with the tapes in Icicle Inn, the events you become aware of when visiting Lucrecia, and Cloud discovering the truth of what happened to him and Zack in the Shinra Manor. When you factor in all of the already added content vis-a-vis Wutai in INTERmission with Sonon & Deepground, the Shinra Resistance Committee and The P0 SOLDIERs, the Ravens with the earlier iteration of Avalanche, as well as Genesis being taken by Nero & Weiss at the end of Crisis Core, we're already on a path to be digging into the deeper history of ALL of that even more as a natural part of the existing story. All of those things are necessary context for the ways in which the new story elements are going to resolve things established in the two earlier games.

It doesn't make sense to implement them as DLC any more than it would making Cloud's Nibelheim flashback sequence DLC.

On top of that, you don't even have to worry about things where the story elements from Before Crisis or Dirge of Cerberus are inaccessible because Ever Crisis is set up to resurface all of those bits and pieces of story from the Compilation titles, and most of the content updates for EC are going to be taking place after the release of Rebirth and before the release of the final game in the trilogy. Essentially they have better content vectors to accomplish that, and the Remake Project games are designed as interconnected standalone projects, rather than something that needs to live continuously from one title into the next.

There was a point in time when it was possible that the Remake Project would have just had a single launch screen and released each new part of the story in smaller, continuous updates given the nature of how modular installation of software on PS5 works, and how Episode INTERmission was created to do that. Back then is when the interviews stated that it wasn't clear what their release schedule would be or how many total parts it would contain. Since then though, they have an ironed out long-term roadmap that goes through to the very end of the next game.

Given the way that this would have made things more limiting and linear would have slowly caused attrition of the people playing it over time as the barrier to entry just kept expanding, it makes sense that they didn't opt for that. The way that the project is being approached now is in wholly contained component parts, so while it's certainly POSSIBLE that DLC could come out for Rebirth, they're being fairly clear about not having any plans in going that route.


X :neo:
 
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