Was the Compilation a mistake?

[Alex Strife]

What I think it's fun is all the rumors that surfaced about the man of the wheelchair, before the movie came out, when in the first trailer he was specifically called "President", and there was even people who said it was Sephiroth, there? Seriously, WTF?

 

[Masamune]

I never saw it as "Ho shit" to be honest with you. I always thought it was amusement -- and that seems to be what they intended, as Case of Shin-Ra says he was laughing, that he'd accepted death the moment he saw Diamond's attack heading for him, and that it was only after being thrown to the floor that he began to think about survival.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaKIIVr4qBU

^ I don't know how you saw that as amusement. His eyes flinch in anticipation of the blast. If they wanted him to laugh, they could have made it clearer. It's irrelevant anyway, since he neither flinched or laughed in the original. I prefer the dignified way he stood there and faced the music. It's a not a big deal, but one of many pointless tickerings by the Compilation.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaKIIVr4qBU

^ I don't know how you saw that as amusement. His eyes flinch in anticipation of the blast.

Why does anticipation of the blast necessarily lend itself to "Oh fuck" anyway?

If they wanted him to laugh, they could have made it clearer.

Sure, but amusement does seem to be what they were going for.

It's irrelevant anyway, since he neither flinched or laughed in the original.

Yeah, his eyes remained the same in the original scene, though I can forgive a change like an eyebrow shift. =P

I prefer the dignified way he stood there and faced the music.

I guess I just don't see how this is any less dignified. He didn't run around panicking -- just stood there, the same as before, took it in the face, and had the slightest eyebrow shift in anticipation of the blast at the final moment.

 

[Max Payne]

But it doesn't change the fact that their original intent was to show us that Rufus died.

This is entirely irrelevant. I don't ever recall SE blatantly stating that he was meant for one or the other, the point is, that it was a possibility.

 

[Lord Noctis]

I think we can assume that Sephiroth killed them in his merry jaunt through the Shinra HQ.

Noctis, your idea of the Turks' role in *superior imaginary AC* is quite nice. That's the thing about the Compilation. It's given such a rich, vibrant world to work with (we spent 80 hours there) and if a post-game world is what they're going with, there are all sorts of things to do with who is still alive. Reno's lovely last words in the OG "If we both survive... if we can save our lives..." is filled with double meanings. If it wasn't for the original AC footage treating Reno and Rude like Laurel and Hardy, their scenes in ACC would be really impactful, and the best part of the Compilation.

Instead, we get fanservice. And yeah, I know it's nothing to be shocked at. It would be 'foolishly optimistic' of me to assume that an organization would be more involved in creating art than revenue. As an artist myself, though, I can't help but hoping.

Thats the whole point regarding the compilation. It could have been extraordinary with a bit more thought care and consistency.

As it is, it can still entertaining and enjoyable, but theres always that sense that it could ahve been so much better.

Still, they do have at least one more sequel to amaze us with, so maybe we'll get something really good out of it, as opposed to merely decent. Doubtful I know, but I can hope can't I?

 

[Glaurung]

Sorry, but no. In the original he stares intently as the missiles head towards him, in AC he pulls a 'ho shit!' expression. How can that up the notch on the badass meter?

I think that the animation at the time of the original FFVII gave no room for a wide variety of expressions like in AC, hence the "staring". Also, widening your eyes might mean "hoshit!", but pair that with a snarl and you will have a different result.

 

[Dashell]

On the topic of his return in general, I liked it and thought it was handled really well. I also love what Nojima has done with his character post-original game.

One of my main problems with Rufus being alive is that they reveal who he is right at the beginning of AC/C. It would have been better to keep it a mystery so that when he reveals himself it's like "OMFG RUFUS NO WAI!" I mean WTF was the point of the reveal when we knew who he was anyway?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The reveal was not that it was Rufus -- we knew that long before that scene in the original AC anyway -- but that he had JENOVA's remains.

 

[Max Payne]

Yeah I didn't see the point in him wearing the ghost halloween costume all movie after that.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well we couldn't have had any of the protagonists interact with him then as they'd recognize his voice and be surprised. Most of the mystery seemed to be in the interest of the trailers rather than in the movie itself. They still got the surprise moment out of it when he had Jenova under there sucking him off.

I remember it was fairly quick that people guessed Rufus when we didn't know who the "Wheelchair man" was, what was it that tipped them off? (Before that half-hour preview they showed) I remember the original rumors of Aeris or Sephiroth were short-lived.

 

[Max Payne]

It just seemed like Rufus. Also white, and it was obviously a dood without long hair, and someone important.

 

[Dashell]

I remember it was fairly quick that people guessed Rufus when we didn't know who the "Wheelchair man" was, what was it that tipped them off? (Before that half-hour preview they showed) I remember the original rumors of Aeris or Sephiroth were short-lived.

I remember the one that it was Sephiroth's mentor and the guy who taught Seph everything he knew or something

That one is actually kind of unique I guess, but yeah I thought Sephiroth too at first. I think most people did.

The reveal was not that it was Rufus -- we knew that long before that scene in the original AC anyway -- but that he had JENOVA's remains

I still think it would have been better if we didn't know who it was. That scene would have been a lot more interesting IMO.

 

[DLPB]

This is entirely irrelevant. I don't ever recall SE blatantly stating that he was meant for one or the other, the point is, that it was a possibility.

I think given that it shows him standing there and not attempting to move, the missile hitting him direct on (that is exactly how the fmv portrays it even if it isn't allowed to show his body being blown to bits) and then his office exploding, coupled with Heidegger's remarks that "The president is dead" and then afterwards assuming control says that yes, Rufus is dead. And no one asked them after FF7 if he was dead, had they done, they may have received a proper answer.

I really fail to see how this is not a retcon. It is as close to one as you are likely to get, the only reason you do not see his body being hit by it is because this isn't a 15-18 game certificate and it wasn't at all needed.

Was Hojo brain in a computer not a retcon? Just because we didn't actually see Hojo's corpse after the fight? or that Sephiroth isn't a retcon, because sure we saw him bleeding and vanishing but there was always some lee way.

I don't think it is possible to argue this isn't a retcon, it is stone wall. I can understand people saying yes we didn't see his body and all that, and that they may actually prefer it this way, but I think it is asking a huge huge leap of imagination to pretend he wasn't killed in FF7

 

[Lord Noctis]

or that Sephiroth isn't a retcon, because sure we saw him bleeding and vanishing but there was always some lee way.

I don't see how Sephiroth resurrecting himself is a retcon considering he's done it before.

 

[DLPB]

and I was wrong on Rufus, it does show his body being consumed by the flames. never noticed this before, but looked at the FMV:

Rufus lunges forwards slowly as the flame hits him

Rufus still while the flame consumes him

Whole office burns around him.

Notice reflection in table too.

Rufus was hit by the missile and fireball and killed.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

New Rufus is clearly a clone put forth by remaining Shinra scientists.

This will be addressed in the next Compilation title.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Rufus was hit by the missile and fireball and killed.

He was hit by the fireball, but not the energy missile. There's a fireball because the projectile itself had already exploded. =P

And that's really not any different a depiction than what AC/C shows. If anything, the newer depiction of the explosion is more intense.


In any case, no one's disagreed that this fits the definition of "retcon." I don't really know what's being debated here.

Something being a retcon doesn't automatically mean that it's bad, though -- it's just that it can be when it's lazy, sloppy, stupid, etc.

 

[DLPB]

he moves forward as if in pain. But even so, there is still no way to avoid being killed by that fireball and he clearly just stays there and doesn't move at all. I suppose if you have a massive suspension of disbelief you can accept his sudden appearence in Advent Children, but seeing that FMV again...I can't

 

[Ite]

Like Tres and OWA-2 have said, the intention of that scene was to show us that Rufus was dead. Of course it was, the story was written back when Square wrote self-contained stories. Anyone who thinks they deliberately made it ambiguous is deluding themselves. FF1-FF9 were never ever written with the intention of continuing the story, and if it wasn't for that bombtastic Spirits Within money-pit, sequels would still not be considered.
FF7's story was full of holes, but it said what it needed to beginning middle and end, and that includes the fiery end of one of the main villains.

Most of the mystery seemed to be in the interest of the trailers rather than in the movie itself.

Remove the word "mystery" with the word "everything" and you have my thoughts on the Compilation.

 

[Max Payne]

he moves forward as if in pain. But even so, there is still no way to avoid being killed by that fireball and he clearly just stays there and doesn't move at all. I suppose if you have a massive suspension of disbelief you can accept his sudden appearence in Advent Children, but seeing that FMV again...I can't

He moves forward because he's ducking for cover for fucks sake. When people see a hit coming the first thing they do is cover their faces. The goddamn blast hit the building and then expanded into the inside.

Goddamn, it's like retarded or something with you people. People have survived worse, but OMG IZ IMPOOSIBLE.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Whats so hard to believe about Rufus surviving a fireball anyway? Keep in mind in this same game Cloud fell hundreds of yards through the air and slammed through the roof of a building and into the ground, and then he woke up and shrugged it off. If we're calling bullshit on anything, it should be that.

 

[Max Payne]

he moves forward as if in pain. But even so, there is still no way to avoid being killed by that fireball and he clearly just stays there and doesn't move at all. I suppose if you have a massive suspension of disbelief you can accept his sudden appearence in Advent Children, but seeing that FMV again...I can't

Fucking man incubating in a damn cave while controlling a goddamn alien from another planet doesn't require massive suspension of disbelief? It's the retardation about AC's over the top action all over again. This is fiction, fiction that was always inspired by anime and cyberpunk/steampunk novels and movies for fucks sake.

Stop implying that somehow real world rules apply to this shit, because if they did, half the cast would be freaking dead.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Only half?

 

[Max Payne]

I was being generous.

 

[DLPB]

He moves forward because he's ducking for cover for fucks sake. When people see a hit coming the first thing they do is cover their faces. The goddamn blast hit the building and then expanded into the inside.

Goddamn, it's like retarded or something with you people. People have survived worse, but OMG IZ IMPOOSIBLE.

He isn't ducking for cover, he moves forwards very slowly and he stays still as the fire consumes him. He does not duck and he does not move off that spot. The FMV makes this 100% clear.