Was the Compilation a mistake?

[Cat Rage Room]

I'm not saying that it was tasteful to bring him back, nor would it tasteful to continue exploiting plot loopholes for drama and money. I'm just saying that yeah, I agree that Rufus was meant to be dead in the original FFVII. Hell, FFVII's ending was one of the most final in any of the FFs. I'm just saying bringing BACK Rufus wasn't a big *GASP* moment because there was a bit of ambiguity in his death, enough for it to exploit to say 'oh he miraculously survived it' at a later date.

As silly as this can be, FF is not the first, only, and last one to do this. It happens all the time in fiction, man.

Domino, Hart

Huh? Are they dead?

 

[Lord Noctis]

Not to sound like a noob, but who is Domino and Hart?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

yeah seriously

 

[Max Payne]

Mog's said all I had too.

My claims are pretty damn plausible. SE had an avenue to exploit to bring Rufus back, and it's not OMG SO RIDONKULOUS AND IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Lord Noctis]

I'm gonna go a little bit more deeply into my own thoughts on the compilation. I may be a little long-winded here.

But seriously, as tasteless as it is bringing Rufus back for AC/C, it is concievable he might have survived the explosion. And really, its not a deal-breaker for the Compilation by any means. Though it would have been better if Rufus had been dead. It would have been an interesting piece of developement for the Turks to try to make up for past actions by taking the initiative in going after Jenova's remains even without the Shinra or Rufus to tell them what to do.

Regarding the Compilation as a whole, I think AC/C meshes really well with FFVII. Aside from Rufus being alive it meshes almost perfectly, and as I said earlier Rufus being there while annoying and kinda tasteless, is not a dealbreaker.

It wasn't until DOC CC and BC showed up that the Compilation began to suffer, though LO is where it started. The plot inconsistencies in these titles really hurt them, though to be fair I don't remember any real retcons in DOC, just a general lack of quality.

CC is where the Compilation had a chance to be something truly incredible, but due to certain retcons, such as the combat between Cloud and Sephiroth, Genesis being at Nibelheim, and a few other minor ones, plus the distasteful way Zack's death was handled held it back. It was still a good game, but not nearly what it might have been if more care had been put into it. For example, with a little bit of effort Genesis and Angeal could have been really interesting and unique characters. To be fair, Angeal wasn't really annoying at all, like Genesis 'I love Loveless' Rhapsodos, but he wasn't very interesting either.

Can't speak very much on BC as I have a limited knowledge of it. Though as I understand it its version of Nibelheim is inconsistent with the other versions. Unsuprising, since that scene has been retconned more than anything else in the FFVII universe. The differences there between the OG and CC could have been explained away easily enough by saying Cloud's memories of those events are still slightly scrambled, and given how fucked up his mind has been over the years we could buy that. But then BC and LO come along with their own versions and it just gets tiresome.

DOC was kinda pointless as well. Vincent's cool, but he didn't really need his own game. It wouldn't even have been so bad if the threat had been on a smaller and more perssonal scale. Deepground in and of itself is not a bad concept, but it was handled poorly. Also, the whole thing with Hojo was kinda stupid. If I had been directing the game I would have focused it around Vincent maybed beggining to lose control of Chaos and becoming a danger to those around him, and he has to find some way to stop his loss of control before its to late. Not sure how Deepground could fit into that, if at all, but thats what I would do.

Theres also the fact that, rather than exploring pre-established pieces of FFVII, such as the Wutai war or Jenova's arrival, the Compilation seems to enjoy making up entirely new crap, some of which is cool, but most of which feels forced.

Its all very irritating, but the Compilation still has strong points. Developing Zack and Sephiroth's characters, giving us a better idea of how SOLDIER worked and operated, showing us the aftermath of Meteorfall, and of course the action scenes which are stunning. I don't know about you, but the ACC Cloud vs. Sephiroth fight is probably my favourite fight scene of all time.

I generall deal with this the same way I deal with Star Wars canon. The OG is the highest level of canon, and everything else, games and books and comics, are also canon (Unless stated otherwise) except for the parts that clash directly with the OG.

So for example, most of CC would be counted as part of my continuity, except for things like Zack landing on the stairs, Cloud fighting Sephiroth in the Jenova room instead of on the walkway, and if you're really picky, Genesis being at Nibelheim.

Personally I'm neutral regarding that, as technicly they didn't alter the scene for him to be in it so much as they extended it. It still doesn't work particularly well in the grand scheme of things, but it does fit.

So anyway, thats my in-depth thoughts on the Compilation. I feel better now.

 

[ForceStealer]

most of CC would be counted as part of my continuity, except for things like Zack landing on the stairs, Cloud fighting Sephiroth in the Jenova room instead of on the walkway, and if you're really picky, Genesis being at Nibelheim.

...Are you sure you didn't put that backwards? The specific location of Cloud's fight with Sephiroth and where Zack landed after losing his are retcons to be denounced, but Genesis' presence is only a big deal if you're picky?

 

[Lord Noctis]

...Are you sure you didn't put that backwards? The specific location of Cloud's fight with Sephirothand where Zack landed and are retcons to be denounced, but Genesis' presence is only a big deal if you're picky?

Yeah, think about it. In the OG the scene ends when Sephiroth says "Am I human?" In CC when Sephiroth says that line the scene keeps going and thats when Genesis shows up. So its not so much a retcon as it is an expansion. On the other hand Zack landing on the pods and the Cloud/Sephiroth fight directly clash with the OG, though I suppose you could just chalk that up to Cloud memories being worth shit and just pretend BC and LO's versions don't exist.

EDIT:Actually, now that I think about it thats what I'm gonna say happened. CC's verion of things is what happened, and the differences with the OG verison are a result of Cloud's hazy memories. I feel better now.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well I already said that about Genesis' presence, I agree with you. But I still see it as harder to accept than whether Zack landed on a pod or on the steps, who cares? I guess your argument could be, "if no one cares, why couldn't they have him land on the pod like he did in the original," but still, if that's a retcon...a lot of things are retcons.

just pretend BC and LO's versions don't exist.

Yeah, done and done. LO's never existed anyway. It's a little half-hour anime made by Mad House, I don't know why it was ever considered canon.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Well I already said that about Genesis' presence, I agree with you. But I still see it as harder to accept than whether Zack landed on a pod or on the steps, who cares? I guess your argument could be, "if no one cares, why couldn't they have him land on the pod like he did in the original," but still, if that's a retcon...a lot of things are retcons.



Yeah, done and done. LO's never existed anyway. It's a little half-hour anime made by Mad House, I don't know why it was ever considered canon.

True enough. As I said in my edit I suppose we could just say CC's version is what really happened, and the differences in the OG are because of Cloud's memories being less than perfect. Its actually easier that way, so lets jsut say thats how it is.

 

[DLPB]

Not to sound like a noob, but who is Domino and Hart?

Not sure if this has been answered or even wants to be answred but anyway

Mayor Domino and his assistent Hart work in Shin-Ra building. As far as I can tell by what I have heard from Ultimania, their names are derived from Pizza Hut and Domino's Pizza. Hart is a mistranslation, he is called Hut.

You first meet Domino when you need to guess the password so he will give you a card key. Passwords such as BOMB, MAKO, KING

 

[Lord Noctis]

Not sure if this has been answered or even wants to be answred but anyway

Mayor Domino and his assistent Hart work in Shin-Ra building. As far as I can tell by what I have heard from Ultimania, their names are derived from Pizza Hut and Domino's Pizza. Hart is a mistranslation.

You first meet Domino when you need to guess the password so he will give you a card key. Passwords such as BOMB, MAKO, KING

Actually thats rather interesting to me since my dad works at Domino's.

 

[Ite]

I think we can assume that Sephiroth killed them in his merry jaunt through the Shinra HQ.

Noctis, your idea of the Turks' role in *superior imaginary AC* is quite nice. That's the thing about the Compilation. It's given such a rich, vibrant world to work with (we spent 80 hours there) and if a post-game world is what they're going with, there are all sorts of things to do with who is still alive. Reno's lovely last words in the OG "If we both survive... if we can save our lives..." is filled with double meanings. If it wasn't for the original AC footage treating Reno and Rude like Laurel and Hardy, their scenes in ACC would be really impactful, and the best part of the Compilation.

Instead, we get fanservice. And yeah, I know it's nothing to be shocked at. It would be 'foolishly optimistic' of me to assume that an organization would be more involved in creating art than revenue. As an artist myself, though, I can't help but hoping.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I think we can assume that Sephiroth killed them in his merry jaunt through the Shinra HQ.

Sephiroth's rampage only went through the higher level floors, though; namely, where the blood trail was, on his way to the top level. He didn't go from floor to floor just killing people randomly.

 

[Ite]

Hmm! You know, that's probably true! But wouldn't other people have, you know, noticed? That dude couldn't have slept through the whole thing...

 

[Cat Rage Room]

But wouldn't other people have, you know, noticed? That dude couldn't have slept through the whole thing...

What dude? Yeah, I'm sure other people noticed Sephiroth going around killing people. It's not a matter of whether it was noticed or not (I'm sure almost everyone in the building noticed), it's a matter of who got in his way to be slaughtered. It's reasonable to assume that in the short timespan in happened, some soldiers were sent to the top floors to respond to the incident.

However of course Domino and Hart weren't among them. They, like other REASONABLE NONCOMBATANTS fearing for their lives, probably hid, similar to how easily Palmer hid and escaped being killed by Sephiroth.

 

[Ite]

Fair enough.

 

[Dashell]

Mog's said all I had too.

My claims are pretty damn plausible. SE had an avenue to exploit to bring Rufus back, and it's not OMG SO RIDONKULOUS AND IMPOSSIBLE.

I just want to say for using that word.

Also being a fan of OP, I've seen people survive much much worse and come back

 

[Althea]

Lol I didnt find it "tasteless" bringing rufus back, dialogue in the game is fine, no one knew whether or not rufus was dead, they assumed. They couldn't get through to his office assumed he was dead and moved on. Whereas CoS sheds a little more light onto what happened....but then again im not fussy.

I really felt that DoC was sloppy, the story could have been far more coherent. As for CC loved it! Really enjoyed it. Didn't love the whole Genesis/Angeal/JENOVA project either...

 

[Masamune]

Rufus' "death" in the original game was frickin' badass. He didn't so much as flinch as the missiles hurled towards him.

Then AC had to, once again, change something for the sake of change...

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well I already said that about Genesis' presence, I agree with you. But I still see it as harder to accept than whether Zack landed on a pod or on the steps, who cares?

Just those who think reality should be consistent. Who cares if one camera in my room recorded me getting up on the left side of the bed this morning while another saw me get off from the foot of the bed?

I guess your argument could be, "if no one cares, why couldn't they have him land on the pod like he did in the original," but still, if that's a retcon...a lot of things are retcons.

A lot of things are retcons.

And there's really no excuse for most of them.

Yeah, done and done. LO's never existed anyway. It's a little half-hour anime made by Mad House, I don't know why it was ever considered canon.

SE treated it as such. It got a good bit of attention in Reunion Files, and Nomura even said he wanted people to watch it before watching AC.

Rufus' "death" in the original game was frickin' badass. He didn't so much as flinch as the missiles hurled towards him.

Then AC had to, once again, change something for the sake of change...

I don't feel that it made his "death scene" any less badass. He still stood there and took it (Case of Shin-Ra even says as much), but survived it.

Actually, that makes it more badass.


On the topic of his return in general, I liked it and thought it was handled really well. I also love what Nojima has done with his character post-original game.

 

[Masamune]

I don't feel that it made his "death scene" any less badass. He still stood there and took it (Case of Shin-Ra even says as much), but survived it.

Actually, that makes it more badass.

Sorry, but no. In the original he stares intently as the missiles head towards him, in AC he pulls a 'ho shit!' expression. How can that up the notch on the badass meter?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I never saw it as "Ho shit" to be honest with you. I always thought it was amusement -- and that seems to be what they intended, as Case of Shin-Ra says he was laughing, that he'd accepted death the moment he saw Diamond's attack heading for him, and that it was only after being thrown to the floor that he began to think about survival.

 

[OWA-2]

SE had an avenue to exploit to bring Rufus back, and it's not OMG SO RIDONKULOUS AND IMPOSSIBLE.

But it doesn't change the fact that their original intent was to show us that Rufus died.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Some of just disagree that revealing him as alive was egregious in any way.

 

[Ite]

But it doesn't change the fact that their original intent was to show us that Rufus died.

Halleluja bro.