Was the Compilation a mistake?

[Super Mario]

I dunno, I've been thinking about that recently.

Maybe this opinion will change in the future depending on what Square does, but I'm starting to think the entire Compilation has been a waste of time in retrospect. It was easy to be excited in the moment, while it all was happening, but now looking back, especially considering that SE has seemed to dropped it like a hot potato (no news, no upcoming projects, no...nothing), I dunno, it seems like DoC, BC, CC, AC, etc was just a big fucking waste of time.

At the most it was just extra fluff added to the FFVII universe, and nothing really poignant, impacting, or even really interesting has been added to the FFVII universe in the Compilation, in my opinion. Things that could have been expanded upon that were already there were skipped over (the Wutai War, the formation of Shinra, more info on Jenova, the background of the FFVII world, etc etc), and instead SE chose to just MAKE UP bullshit instead, with shit that never really needed to exist, like the Genesis War, Deepground, etc etc. The only real accomplishment of the Compilation was expanding on Zack and Sephiroth.

None of it just seems to have any real staying power. I'm far more interested in shit I've played a long while ago than the Compilation, like FFVI, Chrono Trigger (now THAT'S one franchise SE needs listen to its fans and bring back), and so on. I'm sure others saw it before, but it just feels cheap and tacked on. I dunno, maybe this will change when SE actually fucking starts paying attention to their franchise again, but for now, I'm disappointed.

That's a good question, Mog! Actually other than AC (Or ACC), I found the rest of the compilation to be very disappointing, DoC took the worst because instead of following a proper closure like it should deserve, SE decided to make it ambiguous again. They still haven't learned that a good story sometimes requires a good and proper closure! CC was alright as well, but the addition of new characters was really unneccessary.

So in other words, other than AC, I really found the rest of the franchise a big waste of time. AC introduced me to FF formally (while Kingdom Hearts gave me a brief glimpse at it), so I have to give credit that AC was the best that came out of the rest of the compilation.

 

[Lioneh]

Compilation? Waste of time? I think not.

I'll be brief here, but, honestly, if it weren't for the Compilation [specifically AC and CC for that matter], I wouldn't be here. And the FFVII fanbase would be a fair bit smaller. The Compilation introduced FFVII to a whole new generation and allowed so many others like myself to find joy in the series. It admit it certainly has its flaws [what with the retcons and confusing story points and all] that all of you seem eager to reveal - but it also has greatness - otherwise, why would FFVII and its associated instalments be one of the most popular of the series of FF? I know this thread asks if the Compilation was a mistake, but it troubles me to see everyone always complaining, about it. Hello, there are obviously good aspects to the Compilation as well - all the themes it presents [e.g. Crisis Core - see 'heroes' and 'monsters', and 'wings', etc.], most of the characters [yes, I include Genesis here too >__>], its quirkiness [yes, it still retains this outside of the original FFVII - Crisis Core has a bunch of different things that I found amusing - such as different lines, those crazy fangirls in Sector 8, etc.], and so on. Okay, so I'm not being brief, but I wished to make my point.

And...okay, really, I take a lot of you don't like Genesis, do you? [Yes, I am biased, I am a huge fangirl, but still, hear me out].
First off - he is not just Gackt inserted into the Compilation. Heck, I've heard this enough times to make me scream. While Genesis is based off the former, they are not exactly same. Genesis, as a character, is his own person - he does not behave like Gackt [as far as I know, anyway. Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong], he does not have an identical personality to him [again, as far as I know], etc. They even have some physical differences, shockingly. It's like, they're brothers [not twins thx]. Yes, it sounds lame. I don't care.

Secondly, [and I include Angeal here as well], it is quite logical for his and Angeal's presence in Crisis Core - heck, you have to expect other 1st Class SOLDIERs, do you not? And I'm not sure how many of you have problems with them both being part of the Jenova Project [and thus having wings], but honestly, it's scientifically very unlikely for an experiment to yield perfect results on the first time it is performed. Thus, there are going to be 'failures', methods that have been tried and have not been successful. They produced Genesis and Angeal, learned from their mistakes [such as when and how to introduce Jenova cells] and then produced Sephiroth, the most scientifically promising of the bunch. So as much as some of you don't like the addition of extra characters in Crisis Core, it makes sense.

Finallyyyy ~ How can you like the story of Crisis Core minus Genesis? Without Genesis, there is no story [even though I understand that LOVELESS did annoy most people, myself included once upon a time]. If he never deserted, then there would be no conflict to push the story forward, not including the Wutai War. He is the driving force of the plot throughout most of the story [less so when Zack and Cloud escape, but still].

 

[Cat Rage Room]

all the themes it presents [e.g. Crisis Core - see 'heroes' and 'monsters', and 'wings', etc.]

Poorly presented and juvenile themes.

First off - he is not just Gackt inserted into the Compilation. Heck, I've heard this enough times to make me scream. While Genesis is based off the former, they are not exactly same. Genesis, as a character, is his own person - he does not behave like Gackt [as far as I know, anyway. Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong], he does not have an identical personality to him [again, as far as I know], etc. They even have some physical differences, shockingly. It's like, they're brothers [not twins thx]. Yes, it sounds lame. I don't care.

I don't like Genesis because of anything to do with Gackt (except for how it looks). I dislike him because he's a flat character, who most of his lines are from an in universe book.

Finallyyyy ~ How can you like the story of Crisis Core minus Genesis? Without Genesis, there is no story [even though I understand that LOVELESS did annoy most people, myself included once upon a time]. If he never deserted, then there would be no conflict to push the story forward, not including the Wutai War. He is the driving force of the plot throughout most of the story [less so when Zack and Cloud escape, but still].

That's only because it was written that way. They could have easily included the Wutai Army, or specifically an official/general/etc as an antagonist, or an anti Shinra rebel element. Genesis, nor his clones, nor Hollander was NEEDED as a point of conflict or an antagonist. They already had that in the form of Wutai and early AVALANCHE.

 

[Masamune]

Compilation? Waste of time? I think not.

I'll be brief here, but, honestly, if it weren't for the Compilation [specifically AC and CC for that matter], I wouldn't be here. And the FFVII fanbase would be a fair bit smaller. The Compilation introduced FFVII to a whole new generation and allowed so many others like myself to find joy in the series.

If you saw some of the fans the Compilation has attracted, you'd take that back in a millisecond.

 

[linegenrou]

I really think that some things they did in the game was meant to interpreted in a certain way,and even left alone,before the compilation came in.
We also notice and drastic difference in atmosphere in the game compared to some stuff in the compilation.
Sure,people were hungry for more,but I think they should have made it better,a lot better.Totally different from how it turned out.

A game that deserved some attention because of plotholes,is FFVIII.

 

[pandamonium]

I don't know. AC is what got me hooked in the first place, but I have to admit, after playing the original Final Fantasy VII, the rest of the Compilation pales in comparison. Crisis Core was amazing, but still not as good as the original.

But things like DoC were unnecessary. DoC in particular was an utter disappointment and a waste of money - God knows why I bought it. I'm still looking for ACC, though. Ridiculously late, I know. ^^' Haven't palyed BC yet.

I'm still hoping for a remake that'll do the original game justice, though. Haha.

 

[Celes Chere]

I don't like Genesis because of anything to do with Gackt (except for how it looks). I dislike him because he's a flat character, who most of his lines are from an in universe book.

And usually it was the same fucking line. Whenever he appeared on screen, I got a little tense... because I knew a reading was coming. Too bad we never got to see what his character was like behind that, if there was one. >=I
I can't stand Genesis, he makes NO sense. (not his character's personality, his existence) I like Gackt, I really do. I've adored his music for a very long time, and Genesis LOOKS like him - it's really freaky. Based on interviews and music vids etc, I don't think Gackt acts anything like Genesis, and I think Genesis is TOTAL fanservice to Gackt fans. ;; They just had to make up a story so it didn't seem that way.

 

[Tetsujin]

Considering Genesis is the only one out of the three friends who actually gets saved and possibly redeemed (?), I think they should've definitely spent more time making him more of a likable character. You know, more human. Not just some LOVELESS quote machine. So we can actually understand WHY Zack saves him. Give him something we can sympathize with, dammit. D:

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Also, I've never played BC, but making it a throwaway cell phone game inaccessible to most people on the planet was a retarded move.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The Compilation will never be a mistake in my eyes because it allowed me to meet truly awesome, and interesting people like Neo-Bahamut and Username. People I'd only just get a glimpse of via Encylopedia Dramatica, or 4chan's /b.

Thank you, Square, for enriching my life.

 

[Max Payne]

Compilation is tripe, and many of it's fans are. Like Twilight fan retarded.

 

[looneymoon]

When Genesis fights, it looks like Gackt's dance moves. I don't know how anyone else can't see this. HE'S GOT GACKT'S SMOOTH MOVES.

 

[Ite]

I agree with Mog, but taking a hit from a sword and getting directly hit with a plasmic bomb the size of a house is very different - I don't care how strong Rufus's arms are.

That being said, the separation of gameplay and reality is what makes JRPGs ridiculous. I love them anyway.

If we're counting battles as reality-based interactive scenes, consider this: Unless your characters are in their late level 50s, your party gets decimated by Diamond Weapon's crazy bomb attack. Rufus hasn't done a whole lot of fighting since we last saw him, and he probably spent a lot of that time recovering from the multiple stab wounds you gave him (and the loss of his familiar, which, you know, can kill a person). There is no way a level 10 or 15 character could survive that attack. Rufus has done a lot of flying around in helicopters, signing papers, and the like. I speculate he was on his way to becoming fat like his old man.

Hey, aren't you the dude writing The Jenova Project on Fanfic.net?

Why yes!

 

[Max Payne]

I agree with Mog, but taking a hit from a sword and getting directly hit with a plasmic bomb the size of a house is very different - I don't care how strong Rufus's arms are.

That being said, the separation of gameplay and reality is what makes JRPGs ridiculous. I love them anyway.

If we're counting battles as reality-based interactive scenes, consider this: Unless your characters are in their late level 50s, your party gets decimated by Diamond Weapon's crazy bomb attack. Rufus hasn't done a whole lot of fighting since we last saw him, and he probably spent a lot of that time recovering from the multiple stab wounds you gave him (and the loss of his familiar, which, you know, can kill a person). There is no way a level 10 or 15 character could survive that attack. Rufus has done a lot of flying around in helicopters, signing papers, and the like. I speculate he was on his way to becoming fat like his old man.



Why yes!

DEEEEEEEEEEEEEERP

 

[Makoeyes987]

Goddamn gameplay mechanics bullshit. I'm so tired of this argument.

 

[Max Payne]

I give up is what I do. I hate this fandom quite a bit most of the time.

Wtf happened to Fade? It was fun to debate with him :/

 

[Makoeyes987]

Fade sadly "faded away." I have no clue where that Brit bastard went off to.

Oh well, at least there's Masamune. He carries enough Compilation hate to compensate the loss of Fade, so that's good.

 

[OWA-2]

Rufus DID survive a hit from Cloud. The plot implies it.

Really? My mistake then.

However I still disagree with the idea that Rufus could have survived a direct shot from a friggin WEAPON, just because he survived one or two strikes of a 3rd Class SOLDIER before(I doubt Cloud had already reached 1st or 2nd level so early in the story).

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I just think the 89 letters thing was stupid. I mean who the hell does that?

She was doing it to rub more salt into Tseng's wounded conscience.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Secondly, [and I include Angeal here as well], it is quite logical for his and Angeal's presence in Crisis Core - heck, you have to expect other 1st Class SOLDIERs, do you not? And I'm not sure how many of you have problems with them both being part of the Jenova Project [and thus having wings], but honestly, it's scientifically very unlikely for an experiment to yield perfect results on the first time it is performed. Thus, there are going to be 'failures', methods that have been tried and have not been successful. They produced Genesis and Angeal, learned from their mistakes [such as when and how to introduce Jenova cells] and then produced Sephiroth, the most scientifically promising of the bunch. So as much as some of you don't like the addition of extra characters in Crisis Core, it makes sense.

I don't disagree with your overall claim that the Compilation has some good elements, but I disagree with this defense of Angeal and Genesis' presence. No one thinks that there shouldn't have been other 1st Class SOLDIERs portrayed, but what bothers people is their involvement in the JENOVA Project.

And while your argument for it there isn't exactly a bad one, it doesn't really apply in this instance, as Angeal, Genesis and Sephiroth's experiments occurred simultaneously. They didn't learn from mistakes in previous experiments and then refine the process with the previous results in mind -- they just tried several different things all at once.

While on this topic, a number of fans were also displeased with this aspect of Crisis Core because Professor Gast's involvement in the whole thing was almost completely removed. Rather than the JENOVA Project being his, now it's just a result of his discovery of JENOVA.


EDIT: Mako, your new TLS assignment is to retrieve Fade. I miss that guy.

 

[Max Payne]

Really? My mistake then.

However I still disagree with the idea that Rufus could have survived a direct shot from a friggin WEAPON, just because he survived one or two strikes of a 3rd Class SOLDIER before(I doubt Cloud had already reached 1st or 2nd level so early in the story).

I've seen people who have survived almost point blank explosions of rpgs in the middle of a battlefield, with only mild injuries(lacerations, shrapnel, and broken bones). I don't find it that unbelievable.

Rufus wasn't even hit directly. The blast hit the tower first, then traveled into the building.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah! What people often forget when they think deeply about FFVII and whatnot is that first and fore most, it's a video game in a fantasy setting. It's not going to be entirely analogous to the real world.

 

[Ite]

I agree Mog, a video game in a fantasy setting does require suspension of disbelief. That being said, a level of consistency would be nice, and the gap between in-game battles and cutscenes in JRPGs can get too far to cross.

Where Rufus is concered, the in-game dialogue makes it clear he's dead. Dacon's claim that the game insinuated otherwise is just false. The arguments that he survived one thing so he must have survived another don't hold water, just look at real life scenarios. People survive falling out of forty foot trees and then die tripping over a rock. It happens. The miraculous survival of Rufus during his encounter with Cloud isn't made less miraculous by his supposed survival of WEAPON's attack. In fantasy settings - in which the characters are constantly put in life-threatening explosions and attacks - miracles just occur more often than not. Whether or not he could have survived is made moot by the game's acknowledgement of his death.

"The President is dead!" - Heidegger

And hot damn Dacon thanks for making me feel welcome in every thread I've posted in.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

"The President is dead!" - Heidegger

People can be wrong! I mean, even if he was right, and he was dead, Heidegger was just running off an assumption. It's an old JRPG cliche that assumes that every statement made by an NPC, even an important one, is always correct.

 

[Ite]

Well, that's one of the things that the Compilation exploits. There's no rotting corpse, just a vision of him falling over and getting surrounded by flames in a very weighty FMV that seems to draw attention to the fact that his exeunt SL was in a fiery explosion. Later, people claim that he's dead. I don't care how villainous they are, in a dialogue-driven story, dialogue is king.
By your logic, they could also bring back Dyne, Myrna, Eleanor, Cloud's Mom, Biggs, Wedge, Jessie, Domino, Hart, and Tifa's Father why the hell not? The only reason they wouldn't is because it wouldn't make them money.

Do we need every character who dies to be laid at the bottom of a lake for us to know they are dead? Come on people.

We've been having this discussion for six years. Nobody's mind is getting changed.