What is the business of post-meteor Shinra?

[Rydeen]

One also has to acknowledge that he was moved to concern for others during his weeks of captivity post-Meteorfall (which surprised even him) and motivated in large part by compassion to rectify his father's mistakes as he watched them suffering in the days thereafter. These things are explicit.

Remember that several things he has said or thought that reflected well on him were private to only himself, Tseng, or even Kadaj. None of whom he needed to impress or mislead.

Exactly. He surprised even himself at times. While there were definitely instances where things were mutually beneficial for him and society, there were times where that was not the case. I dug up some concrete examples:

(Edit: I took them out of the spoiler tag I had them in because the formatting seemed to get messed up on my browser)

“With the immense fortune and power he gained, and even if he was lining his own pockets to some degree, my father invested most of it into new fields – on a massive scale, and without ethics. And one of those was the research of, and experimentation on, Jenova. Eventually this gave birth to a monster named Sephiroth…”

Sephiroth. That monster – a hybrid of human and Jenova – possessed unfathomable prowess in battle. His show of power on the battlefield led to him becoming lauded as a hero. However, his mind was not as strong as his body. When the hero learnt of the circumstances surrounding his birth, he avowed his heritage as the son of Jenova, and as a result went mad. He revolted against the company and, what’s more, sought the extermination of humanity. During the battle against Sephiroth the Shinra Company was destroyed, and the planet was brought to the brink of returning to stardust.

“My father took his leave from this stage early on, abandoning those of us left behind to suffer the nightmares in his wake. Far from reasonable, wouldn’t you say?”

Tseng looked at Rufus, neither denying nor confirming what he had said.

“I am not my father,” Rufus said with a forcefulness in his voice, moving his wheelchair to the window. He could see the people suffering from Geostigma in the square. “I will bring it to an end, once and for all.”

"I'm sure Kilmister will be back soon," said Rufus to them even though he had no proof to show it.
Why did I say that to them?

He looked back and found there were fewer patients remaining.
Two men and one woman. The woman was the one who had talked to him. She was grasping onto one of the frames that had floated together with another that a man was holding onto. Just when Rufus thought she was dead, she moved groaning in pain. For some reason, Rufus found himself breathing a sign of relief.

“Your name was Kyrie, right?”

Rufus asked, keeping an eye on the yard.

“Kyrie Canaan.”

Kyrie answered, looking confused.

“There’s a gun in the pocket of my gown. Take it.”

She looked at Rufus in surprise. He placed both hands on his stomach, and gently crossed his fingers. If he stretched out his hand, it would reach the pocket. That meant I could have been killed. As if also realizing that, Kyrie quickly took out the gun.

“There are a few boxes of ammo in the back room. Take those too.”

Kyrie nodded to me, and went into the back room.

“Why?”

I asked inadvertently.

“You’re going back, right? There are quite a few of monsters in the wasteland. That knife won’t be much help.

“That’s not what I meant.”

“I’ll let you take credit for this, but that’s all. I won’t hold back if there’s a next time. Even if we are related by blood…”

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

This might be slightly off-topic, but all this talk about Rufus and his best lines actually reminded me of another line he has later in the game… except that it doesn’t seem to exist in Japanese? This one:

“People are ignorant. They'll feel better as long as someone is punished.”

Does anyone know anything about this or can double check somewhere? From what I can see from a few scripts online, he actually just says the “You’re going to be executed for causing this situation” bit in Japanese (お前立ちはこの事態を引き起こしたものとして処刑される). I always wondered about it. But I also don't really know Japanese and can't really check for myself, sooo…

Huh. I just checked footage on YouTube and it seems that, yeah, the line wasn't there in Japanese.

 

[ForceStealer]

Weird. It's a good line though.

 

[Odysseus]

Wow that's like the most memorable line in that scene for me, amazing that it was an invention of the translator. Makes you wonder about their world view. Maybe we were too hard on you, Mr. Translator.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Another thing people forget about Rufus is, he has BALLS. He has no enhancements; he's just an ordinary man. Yet he confronts a gang of armed terrorists who, as far as he knows, just murderered his father, with no back-up but a guard-hound. He doesn't hide in a bunker when Weapon attacks; he faces it down from his "throne". He stays personally involved in the hunt for Sephiroth. He holds his nerve and keeps his wits about him no matter who is threatening him with death: eco-warriors, weapons, angry mobs, rising floods, Sephiroth remnants. He's also a reckless thrill seeker, flying away from his confrontation with Cloud by clinging to a helicopter strut, personally going into the Crater, leaping off buildings etc...

I think there is plenty of scope for interpreting a lot of what he does as the actions of someone seeking an exciting, interesting, meaningful life. He has enough money to retire to Costa del Sol for the rest of his life, but that would be boring.

Clem, I think where we disagree is that you think Rufus is self-seeking and untrustworthy, whereas I only think he can be perceived as self-seeking and untrustworthy.

 

[Odysseus]

Now I'm sad we never got a scene of Sephiroth and Rufus interacting. That would have been an ego clash for the ages. I'm liking this developing perspective of Rufus as this well-intentioned but shady person who's willing to play dirty for the sake of making "a better world" for everyone, even if some troublesome characters like Cloud need to be taken down in the process. I'm sure he was hoping Kadaj and Cloud might just take each other out. Now I actually hope they do a post compilation thing after remake is done, especially now that we know the remake Really isn't ignoring the comp. I want to see where Rufus' character is going.

 

[Rose_of_Night]

, and looking out for Evan's well-being even though he put a knife to his throat

Wasn't the knife to the throat Rufus idea on the first place? Or am I misremembering?

 

[Rydeen]

Another thing people forget about Rufus is, he has BALLS. He has no enhancements; he's just an ordinary man. Yet he confronts a gang of armed terrorists who, as far as he knows, just murderered his father, with no back-up but a guard-hound. He doesn't hide in a bunker when Weapon attacks; he faces it down from his "throne". He stays personally involved in the hunt for Sephiroth. He holds his nerve and keeps his wits about him no matter who is threatening him with death: eco-warriors, weapons, angry mobs, rising floods, Sephiroth remnants. He's also a reckless thrill seeker, flying away from his confrontation with Cloud by clinging to a helicopter strut, personally going into the Crater, leaping off buildings etc...

I think there is plenty of scope for interpreting a lot of what he does as the actions of someone seeking an exciting, interesting, meaningful life. He has enough money to retire to Costa del Sol for the rest of his life, but that would be boring.

I feel like his sense of reponsibility and ballsyness is the thing that made it hard for me to hate him in the OG. He was such an asshole, yet very dignified in his own way. He's going down with his ship.

He's definitely an adrenaline junkie, all the way from his introduction until the very end of the compilation. At the end of the day, he's a spoiled rich boy, so danger is probably one of the few things that makes him feel like a human. He spent nearly his entire life able to have any material thing he wanted and easily excels at most mental tasks, so his attention is focused on things that actually challenge him. Like getting dad's attention, rebuilding Shinra while also rebuilding the world, or jumping off a building. He also undoubtedly led a very sheltered and tightly controlled childhood, and we all know what happens with kids like that when they break out of their cage.

Wasn't the knife to the throat Rufus idea on the first place? Or am I misremembering?

I think you may be right. Upon re-reading, I realized that it was Reno who said "Don’t act like an idiot," not Rufus. Rufus turning his back and leaving himself wide open was probably an implicit suggestion. Regardless, he still looks out for Evan. In as tsundere of a way possible.

I love their dynamic:

“Also, I actually called Reno, too.. He was at Icicle Inn.”

I sat up in surprise. Kyrie protested, pulling the blanket to her body.

“Why?”

“Don’t be so surprised. I’m sure he was helping out in the village.”

“No, I meant why did you call him?”

“…Well, um, the day Reno and Rude first came to your place, it was your birthday, right?”

“Yeah.”

“I had remembered, but things happened and I wasn’t able to congratulate you. So, I was like, maybe it would be nice to have a party or something some other time.”

“You were going to invite the Turks?”

“Well, Turks as in your brother, Evan.”

“…I can’t believe you thought of that, Kyrie.”

“Reno was delighted. Then they gave me a call back. It was from your brother himself, of all people.”

“Stop it with the “brother” thing. It sounds weird. Anyway, what did he say?”

“He said he’d pass because it was too much trouble.”

“He would say that”

“Then, he said, “It’s not because I’m jealous or anything”. I wonder what that means.”

My belly twitched, and I burst into laughter. Maybe it would be nice to go and see him some time…

Fin

He is definitely giving Evan shit because he knows he's jealous of him and the fact that his girl is attracted to him. But I do wonder if Rufus actually does envy Evan on some level. Healthy, innocent, and not burdened with the weight of the world on his shoulders from birth.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

In that section Rufus is basically urging Evan to be bold and do something risky to impress his girl. Rufus is a 100% willing hostage.

It's been a while since I read the novella but I got the impression that if Rufus were ever to do anything so vulgar as indulge in envy, he would envy Evan his freedom.

 

[Rydeen]

Yeah, I get that vibe too. Fuck, that means Rufus is Evan's wingman. If that's not a good brother I don't know what is.

 

[ForceStealer]

Like I said before, nobody seems to have a problem with Reeve running the world, and nobody seems to have a problem with Reeve creating his own army and recruiting children to fight in it in order to enforce his particular brand of the rule of law. I mean, I guess this is a fantasy world, so I guess we can imagine Reeve somehow manages to run the WRO without ever overstepping the boundaries of the morally permissible, but all I can say is, in the real world it just doesn't work that way.

But as you say, this isn't the real world, and Reeve hasn't really given people reason to mistrust his motives. The only time he did, he was working under Rufus And he clearly wasn't comfortable with it then.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

He's been recruiting children for his army.
I know Shinra recruit Cloud, but Cloud was 15 (I think). Denzel was just ten and clearly under the impression that he was recruit material.
But seriously, I'm not really trying to argue that Reeve's motives are suspect. All the same, power corrupts....

 

[Odysseus]

Okay, don't go galvanizing Rufus while throwing Reeve under the bus. I'm not convinced the WRO enlisted child soldiers to begin with, none of the troops in Dirge were kids and that was a year before case of Denzel. They might have employed children in more minor support roles, but Reeve realizes that those are unnecessary once civilization has recovered some.

 

[ForceStealer]

Cloud was 14, and I don't think Reeve was intending to make them soldiers.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I actually agree.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Okay, don't go galvanizing Rufus while throwing Reeve under the bus. I'm not convinced the WRO enlisted child soldiers to begin with, none of the troops in Dirge were kids and that was a year before case of Denzel. They might have employed children in more minor support roles, but Reeve realizes that those are unnecessary once civilization has recovered some.

Where are Reeve' s 34,000 deleated emails??

Money for Midgar orphanages???

We deserve to know! Shinra's asking the tough questions WRO sucks and are corrupt

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

 

[Rydeen]

Also, does Reeve wingman for strangers?

 

[ForceStealer]

Also, does Reeve wingman for strangers?

I dunno about strangers, but wingman, yes.

 

[Rydeen]

Oh shit, I forgot about that. A+, Force.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Cait Sith really did suck at telling fortunes.

 

[Rydeen]

Cait Sith kinda sucked at everything.

 

[Rose_of_Night]

Offtopic, but my #1 wish for the remake is them finally telling us how the fuck does Reeve control the Caits

 

[ForceStealer]

If it's 'Inspire', I'd rather they didn't

 

[Rose_of_Night]

I dunno about strangers, but wingman, yes.

I love how Tifa huffs and puffs if she's present on that scene