What Plot Lines or Characters Do You Think Are Ignored/Overlooked/Wasted In The Compilation?

[Clement Rage]

Plus, their loyalty to Shinra and each other was their defining feature, so why would they suddenly decide they didn't want to be Turks any more?

They're a lot more loyal to each other than Shinra, half of BC was the Turks dodging and being unsatisfied with their orders and superiors. They had an opportunity to leave and they took it. They're willing to come back for Tseng, but not Shinra. Makes sense to me.

Many of them joined Deepground.

And that's a piece of canon that I find completely bizarre. Deepground was top secret and completely sealed for three years, how could they know about it or get in? Why would they join an organisation Shelke describes as complete torture? Everything we know about DG indicates it's not a pleasant place to be, why is joining it a better option than leaving Midgar and taking up construction work? They were trapped in Midgar? How? Denzel could get off the plate, the Shinra building was still standing, etc.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

They're a lot more loyal to each other than Shinra, half of BC was the Turks dodging and being unsatisfied with their orders and superiors. They had an opportunity to leave and they took it. They're willing to come back for Tseng, but not Shinra. Makes sense to me.

Yes, but they constantly reiterate the "this is the choice I have made and I must see it through to the bitter end" mantra, and also with Rufus coming to power you'd think a lot of their objections to Shinra would be resolved. They had previous opportunities to leave and did not take them. Given the the fact that loyalty is their defining feature, to turn their backs on Rufus {who saved their lives) and Shinra at the moment of the planet's greatest crisis makes their characterisation look sloppy and inconsistent.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And that's a piece of canon that I find completely bizarre. Deepground was top secret and completely sealed for three years, how could they know about it or get in? Why would they join an organisation Shelke describes as complete torture? Everything we know about DG indicates it's not a pleasant place to be, why is joining it a better option than leaving Midgar and taking up construction work? They were trapped in Midgar? How? Denzel could get off the plate, the Shinra building was still standing, etc.

You're right, it's extremely bizarre.

We know from The Kids Are Alright that at least one former SOLDIER did take up an ordinary life, though -- at least until he was probably killed along with the rest of Nibelheim during Dirge of Cerberus.

 

[jazzflower92]

Inconsistent characterizations is another part of the problem as well. One thing I always was disturbed by is the reason why they had to make Selkie they made her stop aging when she was nine years old. It just makes her interactions with Vincent very creepy at times to look at. Then again Dirge of Cerberus was trying to shove in so much drama tropes that anything that is trying to be deep is really narmy. Not to mention why they had to include Vincent's father in the game but never mention at all Dr. Gast when he should have been mentioned in the flashbacks concerning the Jenova Project. And don't get me started on Lucrecia's character in the game the way she is portrayed is really annoying. They made her into a selfish prima donna who is overemotional and is part of the reason behind Vincent's suffering.

 

[Clement Rage]

Yes, but they constantly reiterate the "this is the choice I have made and I must see it through to the bitter end" mantra, and also with Rufus coming to power you'd think a lot of their objections to Shinra would be resolved. They had previous opportunities to leave and did not take them. Given the the fact that loyalty is their defining feature, to turn their backs on Rufus {who saved their lives) and Shinra at the moment of the planet's greatest crisis makes their characterisation look sloppy and inconsistent.

I figured that was part of the deal.

"Me, Reno and Rude are now yours heart and soul (take off the shipping goggles, people, that's not what I mean), but you leave the others in peace, they've earned it."

Rufus only saved Reno, Rude, and Tseng, Veld and Felicia, not the rest. Even so, he tried to have them all killed before, so saving their lives doesn't indebt them to him, it just evens the score. What he did was give them a chance to disappear without being hunted, so peace of mind.

I read the Turks as having great loyalty to the institution that is the Turks, but not so much to Shinra itself.

We know from The Kids Are Alright that at least one former SOLDIER did take up an ordinary life, though -- at least until he was probably killed along with the rest of Nibelheim during Dirge of Cerberus.

For some reason I had assumed they'd just occupied Shinra Manor.

Inconsistent characterizations is another part of the problem as well. One thing I always was disturbed by is the reason why they had to make Selkie they made her stop aging when she was nine years old. It just makes her interactions with Vincent very creepy at times to look at. Then again Dirge of Cerberus was trying to shove in so much drama tropes that anything that is trying to be deep is really narmy. Not to mention why they had to include Vincent's father in the game but never mention at all Dr. Gast when he should have been mentioned in the flashbacks concerning the Jenova Project. And don't get me started on Lucrecia's character in the game the way she is portrayed is really annoying. They made her into a selfish prima donna who is overemotional and is part of the reason behind Vincent's suffering.

Dr Gast exists, but he's probably not relevant to Vincent's story. His role would be limited to 'You want to put cells in your kid? Yeah, sure. Project approved.'

Lucrecia's character in the game the way she is portrayed is really annoying. They made her into a selfish prima donna who is overemotional and is part of the reason behind Vincent's suffering

Wasn't she always part of the reason for his suffering, though? She screwed up a lot, but at least she's 'sorry' about it.

 

[Skan]

Well, as long as I'm bitching:

I kind of wish AVALANCHE 1.0 wasn't headed by an Evil Scientist. I also wish the Turks weren't so incompetent (I can see why they were at risk of being completely cut from the company).

Is it considered canon these days that Hojo is actually Sephiroth's dad? Another missed opportunity. It totally makes sense for Hojo to rear Vincent's kid, make him his own, and tell nobody about it.

I'm surprised at how much FF7 glosses over Nanaki's time in the lab. Cloud gets to angst, Vincent gets to angst ... but not Red? C'mon, the guy probably lost his eye in there!

More character moments in general are needed in the OG. As it is there is only one member of the party who seems able and willing to serve as a catalyst for Interesting Conversations, and that's Aerith. But she dies partway through the game, so I'm left with shallow, simpering, or avoidant dialogue for the remainder of the game.

A ton of the early concepts for the game were pretty cool. I like the idea of Sephiroth as a totally brutal, violent guy at heart, and I'm surprised they threw out the "and then Barret realized that ShinRa was exporting weapons to Wutai!" subplot (a hint of politics!). Vincent as a flirty private investigator would've been awesome, too, but instead we got two broody heroes.

I don't think Dirge of Cerberus should've existed. Yeah, I get it, Vincent is hot, but I still can't bring myself to watch another run-through of that game, even for research purposes. I'm not sure why it had to exist.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

The Wutai War. It was fine as background fluff in the original game, but when Crisis Core came out and it focused more on Genesis and his bullshit, it was a real wasted opportunity to lay great world building and character groundwork.

Is it considered canon these days that Hojo is actually Sephiroth's dad?

This is absolutely, uncontestable canon. Hojo is Sephiroth's biological father in the most literal sense. I didn't know that anyone thought otherwise.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Rufus only saved Reno, Rude, and Tseng, Veld and Felicia, not the rest. Even so, he tried to have them all killed before, so saving their lives doesn't indebt them to him, it just evens the score. What he did was give them a chance to disappear without being hunted, so peace of mind.

I read the Turks as having great loyalty to the institution that is the Turks, but not so much to Shinra itself.

They definitely have intense loyalty to Rufus. It's mentioned in Episode:Shin-Ra how they feel great gratitude to him for saving them, Veld and Elfe.

And, really, Rufus and the Turks did a lot of crap to each other before that great loyalty set in. Yeah, he was going to have them killed at one point, but they also held him hostage for three years.

That's another thing I have to tip my hat to the Compilation for. They really established an awesome relationship between Rufus and the Turks, where they formed a family of sorts with deep respect and loyalty after doing shitty stuff to each other.

For some reason I had assumed they'd just occupied Shinra Manor.

I thought the same at first until it was pointed out to me there's really no other reason for them to already be in Nibelheim when Vincent gets there other than to collect the people. We know they attacked basically the whole world (Wutai, Kalm, Edge, Junon) and took people from all those other locations, so it wouldn't make too much sense for them to just be hanging around Shinra Manor without bothering to pick up the civilians who were right outside too.

Though they did need Vincent for the protomateria, Rosso's dialogue with him when he encounters her seems to imply that she wasn't expecting to see him there, so they probably weren't waiting for him.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^Hojo confirms that he is Sephiroth's dad. As it is, I don't see how he could let anyone else be be Sephrioth's dad given how much he values his own ego.

Also... for a PS1 game, FFVII had tones of character development/moments... if we wanted more, I think we would have gotten less world building...

 

[jazzflower92]

You know what is another missed opportunity having Aerith and Sephiroth have a past surrogate brother and sister relationship with each other. I mean both Aerith and her mother were kept in Shinra's headquarters for eight years so it could have been great if Sephiroth and Aerith grew up with each other. Not to mention how Ifalna could acted as a surrogate mother figure to Sephiroth while both her and Aerith were in captivity.

 

[Skan]

^^Hojo confirms that he is Sephiroth's dad. As it is, I don't see how he could let anyone else be be Sephrioth's dad given how much he values his own ego.

Also... for a PS1 game, FFVII had tones of character development/moments... if we wanted more, I think we would have gotten less world building...

We'll have to disagree then. I think it's totally IC for Hojo to take someone else's son (esp. his opponent's) and to twist that kid into his own in a way that's completely irrecoverable.

Well, you're talking to someone who thinks there isn't all that much worldbuilding in the OG to begin with.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

That's another thing I have to tip my hat to the Compilation for. They really established an awesome relationship between Rufus and the Turks, where they formed a family of sorts with deep respect and loyalty after doing shitty stuff to each other.

Just like a real family!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

You know what is another missed opportunity having Aerith and Sephiroth have a past surrogate brother and sister relationship with each other. I mean both Aerith and her mother were kept in Shinra's headquarters for eight years so it could have been great if Sephiroth and Aerith grew up with each other. Not to mention how Ifalna could acted as a surrogate mother figure to Sephiroth while both her and Aerith were in captivity.

I am pretty sure that Hojo would never have allowed Ifalna within a million miles of Sephiroth. Sephiroth already had a tendency to hero-worship Dr Gast (and evidently never learned how he died).

 

[jazzflower92]

I am pretty sure that Hojo would never have allowed Ifalna within a million miles of Sephiroth. Sephiroth already had a tendency to hero-worship Dr Gast (and evidently never learned how he died).

That's another issue there is no big details about Sephiroth's childhood. Heck, we are given more information about Genesis and Angeal's childhood than his. I mean I think Crisis Core could have focused a little bit on that and maybe have notes detailing how Sephiroth was raised.

 

[Skan]

I actually think fandom has a pretty good grasp on Sephiroth's backstory for all that we're told almost nothing about it. I mean, his dad's Hojo. There really are only a few possibilities for how his childhood went.

 

[jazzflower92]

I actually think fandom has a pretty good grasp on Sephiroth's backstory for all that we're told almost nothing about it. I mean, his dad's Hojo. There really are only a few possibilities for how his childhood went.

Yeah, having Hojo as a father is a guarantee your childhood will suck. Not to mention the huge amount of emotional, social, and mental damage that will linger into adulthood.

 

[Starling]

I think the age gap is too big between Aerith and Sephiroth for them to have spent much time together since Sephiroth would've probably been busy with combat training and such by the time Aerith was old enough to remember meeting him.

As for Hojo being Sephiroth's father, I think Hojo claiming to be his father doesn't guarantee he's telling the truth or means it in a biological sense, rather than the I made you what you are sense. It also wards off the thought of Hojo getting laid. That such a person could procreate is cringe worthy.

 

[jazzflower92]

I think the age gap is too big between Aerith and Sephiroth for them to have spent much time together since Sephiroth would've probably been busy with combat training and such by the time Aerith was old enough to remember meeting him.

As for Hojo being Sephiroth's father, I think Hojo claiming to be his father doesn't guarantee he's telling the truth or means it in a biological sense, rather than the I made you what you are sense. It also wards off the thought of Hojo getting laid. That such a person could procreate is cringe worthy.

He was eight years old than her.

Not to mention Hojo is an ugly, repulsive person on the inside as well and many people would not understand why anyone could stand being married to him at all.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

This seems to be a point on which fandom is strongly divided. I don't just mean that some people think Hojo was Seph's dad while others think it was Vincent; I mean that the idea that the story itself would be improved if it were canon that Vincent was Seph's father, which is endorsed by some fans and rejected by others.

Me, I think the story has more meaning and subtlety when Hojo is Seph's dad.

Also, he wasn't always old and ugly. And the beach bunnies seem to like him. Surely he can't be the only guy on the Costa with gil to burn?

 

[jazzflower92]

This seems to be a point on which fandom is strongly divided. I don't just mean that some people think Hojo was Seph's dad while others think it was Vincent; I mean that the idea that the story itself would be improved if it were canon that Vincent was Seph's father, which is endorsed by some fans and rejected by others.

Me, I think the story has more meaning and subtlety when Hojo is Seph's dad.

Also, he wasn't always old and ugly. And the beach bunnies seem to like him. Surely he can't be the only guy on the Costa with gil to burn?

That was jossed in Dirge of Cerberus featuring Hojo looking the same in his younger years.

 

[Skan]

This seems to be a point on which fandom is strongly divided. I don't just mean that some people think Hojo was Seph's dad while others think it was Vincent; I mean that the idea that the story itself would be improved if it were canon that Vincent was Seph's father, which is endorsed by some fans and rejected by others.

Me, I think the story has more meaning and subtlety when Hojo is Seph's dad.

Also, he wasn't always old and ugly. And the beach bunnies seem to like him. Surely he can't be the only guy on the Costa with gil to burn?

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Terrible people get laid all the time. I never understood too much why Hojo getting some ass is an inconceivable concept.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

That was jossed in Dirge of Cerberus featuring Hojo looking the same in his younger years.

Which itself could easily be lazy 3D modelers not wanting to make "young" versions of all the characters...

 

[Starling]

Terrible people get laid all the time. I never understood too much why Hojo getting some ass is an inconceivable concept.

It's not that it's inconceivable, just rather unpleasant to think about. Denial exists for a reason doesn't it? I recall reading a fic or two that managed to have both Vincent and Hojo being Sephiroth's father, one way or another. There are some interesting things fics can do when messing around with the parentage of characters, especially if you throw in artificial insemination or timetravel.

 

[Strangelove]

dc staff were super lazy, they couldn't even be bothered to remember gast