In fairness, this discussion is about a game that will soon be six years old, and the plot point in question concerns a character who was shown to still be alive in a chronologically subsequent game (Dirge of Cerberus) released seven and a half years ago.
We're in "Aerith dies" territory at this point.
Sephiroth doesn't deserve pity any more than Genesis, so appealing to the notion that if one deserves it then they all do has no effect on me. Really, these guys have nothing to complain about. They're gifted by virtue of how they were made. They're physically superior to the rest of humanity, were handed celebrity status just because, and probably have access to all the tang they want.
These guys literally have nothing to bitch about.
If Genesis hadn't been a moron, he would have appealed directly to the president to provide him with access to Jenova's cells or Sephiroth's in order to stay alive. Being as valuable as he was, the request would probably have been granted.
The only one I feel pity for is Angeal, and only because he seemed a decent enough chap with a noble vision of what being SOLDIER is supposed to be. For some reason, discovering his origins made him think he didn't live up to that grand purpose, so he went down an entirely self-destructive path while trying to save his best friend.
The other two were self-serving, pity party-throwing douchers determined to either drag everyone else down with them or set themselves above everyone else. Genesis and Sephiroth can go fuck themselves, basically.
I would also disagree with the notion that Genesis was even trying to help Angeal and Sephiroth. It's unclear what persuasive argument he tried making to Angeal, but the things he said to Sephiroth after his defection from Shin-Ra are "Your fame should have been mine" and "Overlook that I've been an asshole to you and everyone else and help me not die?"
Really, how you should feel about these guys should be based entirely on how they respond to learning about their origins -- reactions summarized by their own lines:
Genesis: "If I go, the world goes with me."
Sephiroth: "I am the chosen one. I have been chosen to be the leader of this planet."
Angeal: "Our enemy is all that creates suffering."
No.
He doesn't deserve any whatsoever.
they fact of something "being old" has nothing to do with it. "oh that means spoliers can be said because something is old!"
?????? no sense whatsoever. just because YOU know about it doesnt mean everybody does. i became a FF7 fan not even 6 months ago. in fact, you said ANOTHER spoiler because you said aeris dies. i already know, but what if someone was cruising this? can you at least care enough of someone is acceptable for spoilers? is it that hard?
people become fans of FF7 (let alone games in general or anything else) everyday and id HATE it if i ruined something for a beginning FF7 fan. if you dont respect or dont care nobody asked you to. just ask. :/
i also didnt say that sephiroth or any of his friends or anyone in general SHOULD deserve pity or anything. i said "i find it funny how PEOPLE reach out with sorrow at sephiroth" meaning i find it funny how OTHERS feel about him. as for me i feel a bit for all of them. it was hopeless for anyone to be a hero because shinra was still a bad company at that so im not talking about that subject. read carefully.
this whole "genesis is a stupid dumbazz" "genesis is a moron" "genesis was a jealous *itch that was the result of sephiroth's inanity" "genesis is based after gackt so therefore hes stupid and retarded" thing is really itching me.
they have absolutely NO REASON besides the training room fight. and even then genesis was just getting to serious. sephiroth was acting stupid also. angeal,when he broke up the fight gave SEPHIROTH (NOT genesis) a look that meant "why are you feeding him? whats the matter with you? you aught to have known better!"
as for "genesis was a moron" bit...he was curious about how he lived as much as angeal and sephiroth...he just actually had guts and followed some guy who claimed he had the answers. and...if you are working in a place you trust and place loyalty at, why NOT ask the head of the company that SPECIALIZES in it? you are asking genesis to be a psycho-geneus here. everybody was fooled by shinra, even sephiroth, seemingly the smartest of all. and if you claim genesis a moron, i challenge you to say that angeal and sephiroth are morons also because they actually LISTENED to this "moron".
as for "genesis was a jealous *itch that was the result of sephiroth's inanity" (not directly talking about you but people say it alot) he was just a person that was a bit too excited for his fantasy dreams of becoming a hero. if you people would stop bashing him and look BEHIND the scenes you would learn that its HOLLADER'S fault of it all. and he
was jealous, to the point of a person wanting to have the fame a desires of his icon - hero, but never to the point when he would tell sephiroth he was a monster so he would back out and he would be the hero. in fact he was insane at that point so he wasnt thinking of becoming a hero so....:/
as for "genesis is based off of gackt" bit well...maybe you have a case of jealous-itis. there is nothing alike between the two. all he did was voice act him and support the outfit for genesis. so what if his face a published in a game? thats still nothing to complain about. unless that is where the root of your jealous-itis comes from.
i totally understand and have empathy on your idea for angeal. (another spoiler btw....) he basically quietly crumbled (although i havent seen it all) all alone and empty, not knowing what he could or should do in life. his idea for honor had shattered, as well as pride. everything he knew meant nothing anymore. like i said, to some degree i feel for all three.
sephiroth was technically not human out of all of them at this point and therefore hardly had any human personalities. he
was proud, he
was offsetting and cool to some degree, but i dont think he could have helped it. his mind was unconsciously struggling against JENOVA and the minute humanity sephiroth had and in the end JENOVA won. i cant change how you feel about sephiroth and dont want you to. have you own mind. just understand and you can still say "he can *uck himself though" :/
genesis was the most desperate of all of them to become a hero, he just went off the wrong end for answers to his life. the training room scene showed alot of the relationship of all of them, but mostly sephiroth and genesis. genesis (im not saying it wasnt a stupid move) was hurrying to be a hero and pushed aside the fact that sephiroth was probably the first one to become 1st class so fast and therefore had MUCH more experience. even zach wouldnt have done something like that, but who knows. genesis' and zach's, ideals for heroes are very close in mind.
also i would like to take a quote from you since it the most interesting.
"I would also disagree with the notion that Genesis was even trying to help Angeal and Sephiroth. It's unclear what persuasive argument he tried making to Angeal, but the things he said to Sephiroth after his defection from Shin-Ra are "Your fame should have been mine" and "Overlook that I've been an asshole to you and everyone else and help me not die?" "
1. why would genesis tell angeal in the first place? think about it. he was only jealous of sephiroth, so why would he waste his time with angeal? he would have just skipped him entirely and pin-pointed on sephiroth. the only reason we have to look at, begrudgingly or not, is that angeal was genesis' friend and he thought he needed to know the truth.
2. you also have to remember that genesis was a bit off his rocker so he most likely thought things that werent there. "you fame should have been mine" was probably sephiroth thinking he was the best and was taking his fame for granted and swimming in it. sephiroth did think he was the best but could care less for his fame because he kept to himself for almost his entire SOLDIER life until angeal and genesis came. he only followed shinra, nobody else.
3. i would also like to point out that when genesis came into the mako reactor and told sephiroth whom he really was, he asked in disparition for sephiroth to share his cells with him. when sephiroth hesitated, genesis knew he had a hole and jumped in. he even quote "my friend" and insisted that sephiroth had "the gift of the goddess", smiling fondly. in the video he explains in the room that he wanted to rule WITH sephiroth. he wasnt thinking of sephiroth claiming JENOVA as his own and going ultra insane. i wish i could upload videos but i dont know how to on here.
I don't understand this 'Genesis was insane' claim. Genesis was not insane. There was never a point at which he 'went insane'. His actions were calculated and rational throughout. Even his belief in the goddess ended up being a matter of fact, not faith. He was saved, although he didn't deserve it, when many who were much more deserving of life, died: this irony is so blatant that it must have been deliberate.
all three of them went insane after finding out about themselves to some degree. sephiroth went the craziest because he was actually the perfect project instead of like his friends. maybe you need to look at the game again. :/
also dont forget that when sephiroth told genesis to "go decay" genesis said "ah, a perfect monster indeed." in admiration, meaning "wow, hes perfect as a monster too." genesis wanted to be a hero like sephiroth when he didnt do loco, but now when he knows hes a "monster" he still finds himself looking up to sephiroth as something base himself off of. the word i am looking for is "admiration" not jealousy. thats why voice acting is key with characters and gackt hit it on the line to force you to think genesis is still wistfully wanted what he will never get from sephiroth. he realized he wouldnt be a hero like sephiroth andwhen he found out about himself and then he also realized he wouldnt even be a perfect monster like him either.
