Why is There So Much Hatred On Genesis?

[LicoriceAllsorts]

But if the goddess doesn't heal him, what does?

 

[Roger]

What? Genesis is healed before Minerva appears. He was healed by the same...giant materia thing that turned him into that huge monstrosity.
Furthermore, the scene where he sees her has never appeared to me to look as she was giving him a thumbs up. He certainly doesn't look happy. He approaches her, she looks away and he falls, reaching for her.

The goddess didn't give him shit, he turned down Weiss, sealed himself under Midgar, and said he was gonna come back when he felt the Planet needed him. Sounds to me like he's still delusional, maybe to further ingratiate himself to Minerva who - it looks to me - still doesn't approve of him. Which is what I keep saying, Genesis' arc isn't finished. Now, it would appear they're not going to finish it, but that's not the point.

I have a hard time believing that Genesis looked for a gift from the Goddess that would heal him, found a thing that he considered the gift of the goddess, it indeed cured him, and a goddess appeared seconds afterwards but it totally had nothing to do with and the goddess was just passing through on a completely unrelated errand and despite appearing had no interest in him. And Genesis didn't look so much as unhappy as he did as in awe. he feel down sure but he was passing out due to Zack cleaning his clock. And Minerva was smiling, didn't seem to me that Genesis killing untold thousands in her name was that upsetting.

But I'll agree that Genesis' character arc may not have been finished. Doesn't mean he'll ever come to realisation that the execution of his ideas left something to be desired.

 

[jazzflower92]

Genesis's character arc could be summed up as spoiled brat throws a hissey fit that causes death and destruction then at the end he gets what he wants without any effort on his part.

Genesis's want to be a hero should have been potrayed as being apart of a shallow want to seek fame and glory.The fact the game at the end tried to see it as a positive thing is really mind numbing.

 

[ForceStealer]

But if the goddess doesn't heal him, what does?

That huge orb/materia thing? Do you think the goddess turned him into the huge monster too? (honest question)

I have a hard time believing that Genesis looked for a gift from the Goddess that would heal him, found a thing that he considered the gift of the goddess, it indeed cured him, and a goddess appeared seconds afterwards but it totally had nothing to do with and the goddess was just passing through on a completely unrelated errand and despite appearing had no interest in him. And Genesis didn't look so much as unhappy as he did as in awe. he feel down sure but he was passing out due to Zack cleaning his clock. And Minerva was smiling, didn't seem to me that Genesis killing untold thousands in her name was that upsetting.

Genesis called freaking EVERYTHING that he looked at for more than a few seconds "the gift of the goddess." If he was ever to find something that healed him, there's a good chance that he thought it was the gift of the goddess. Hell he calls the apple the gift of the goddess moments after he used the huge materia to heal him!

Genesis absorbed Lifestream in that place, and Minerva is a manifestation of the Lifestream. She's wasn't "passing through" anymore than the Lifestream was. Per the Ultimania:

Minerva is similar to a summon, and her intention was not necessarily to revive Genesis.

And she doesn't look like she was smiling to me. The creators don't make it sound like she was either or at least that, if she were, it was condescending:

Minerva’s facial expressions are meant to be hints to the Lifestream’s judgment, such as ‘Genesis has not yet completed his duty as a SOLDIER’ and ‘Genesis still has much left to learn’.

 

[Roger]

That huge orb/materia thing? Do you think the goddess turned him into the huge monster too? (honest question)

Not intentionally but I dunno what that even was. I don't particular see why the Huge Orb in itself would turn him into a huge monster or why Genesis himself would be aiming for that, the huge monster was an experimental error no what did it.

Genesis called freaking EVERYTHING that he looked at for more than a few seconds "the gift of the goddess." If he was ever to find something that healed him, there's a good chance that he thought it was the gift of the goddess. Hell he calls the apple the gift of the goddess moments after he used the huge materia to heal him!

Well he was pretty out of it by then, didn't really seemed to comprehend that Lazard wasn't really Angeal either.

Genesis absorbed Lifestream in that place, and Minerva is a manifestation of the Lifestream. She's wasn't "passing through" anymore than the Lifestream was. Per the Ultimania:

I'd accept that if this was the first time we saw the Lifestream being absorbed or messed with. It most certainly isn't.

And she doesn't look like she was smiling to me. The creators don't make it sound like she was either or at least that, if she were, it was condescending:

Minerva’s facial expressions are meant to be hints to the Lifestream’s judgment, such as ‘Genesis has not yet completed his duty as a SOLDIER’ and ‘Genesis still has much left to learn’.​

I'd hardly equate that with the disapproval or disinterest you were talking about either. He wasn't done yet=/=he's proven himself unworthy. "Genesis hasn't completed his duty yet" doesn't even tell me that he's even on the wrong track at all. "Keep doing what you're doing, you'll get there eventually" is what I'd take from that.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

That huge orb/materia thing? Do you think the goddess turned him into the huge monster too? (honest question)

Good question.

Spoiler: I'd completely forgotten (spoilers ahead) ...

that he turned into a huge monster. I think by that point I no longer expected the story to make any sense (I felt like Zack, "I don't understand!"), so I was like, "Okay, he's a giant monster now, whatever," and didn't really think about it.

Maybe it was being turned into the monster that cured him? Is that monster Genesis's Weapon form? Can he transform in and out of Weapon-form at will? (a bit like Vincent?). Is he now a creature of human will and consciousness+Weapon power and instinct to defend planet?

Before he is transformed, he tells a bewildered Zack that, "the planet is my guardian now". Maybe he's just deluded, but in view of the fact that almost immediately afterwards the huge materia turns him into a Weapon (which Zack easily defeats) suggests that he and the planet have an actual understanding.

Which begs the question, what is the function of that huge materia? Is it to make people into Weapons? It's obviously chosen Genesis in some way. But why does he have to fight Zack; why does Zack have to rescue him from this form? Why is he so weak and feeble afterwards?

I guess I can get on board with the goddess as a manifestation of the Lifestream; I can imagine that once upon a time the people in their world worshipped Minerva as the anthropomorphosis of the Lifestream and considered materia to be "the gift of the goddess". Of course that was before Shinra came along with its Age of Enlightenment and its Mako Revolution to show everybody that the Lifestream was just a fuel and that humans could use science to make their own materia.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That huge orb/materia thing? Do you think the goddess turned him into the huge monster too? (honest question)

That materia is probably Minerva's summon stone. From the same page you were just quoting:

With her body clad in an impressive suit of golden armor, she is the existence that transcends all matter. Beneath her helmet, she is a beautiful woman with blond hair and green eyes. In Scene 10-06 Genesis fulfills his wish to meet her, and she appears in Mission No. 288 “The Reigning God.” She is interpreted to be the Goddess mentioned in LOVELESS, but in terms of substance she is similar to a summon, though it seems that the purpose behind her actions is to follow the intentions of the Lifestream.

So the orb and the goddess are not unrelated, and Genesis did, indeed, find the goddess from his story. Furthermore, while she may not have directly intended to heal him, given that "the purpose behind her actions is to follow the intentions of the Lifestream" and that she apparently communicated to Genesis that he had a task yet to complete -- well, yeah, the planet healed him and has chosen him for something.

 

[ForceStealer]

If it's her summon materia, than he healed himself. When you summon Bahamut to kill some monsters. Bahamut doesn't deign these monsters to be killed, he's just doing as you command because he summoned you. Genesis cast a spell that invoked Minerva.

The Planet hasn't shown any concern with justice or death. The Planet cares for itself and no one else - indeed it is more than fine with wiping out humanity and everything else if that means it can prosper. The only time the Lifestream ever went out of it's way to help humanity was on Aerith's behest. The Weapons didn't go after Sephiroth, after all. I'm not sure why the Lifestream would approve or disapprove of him, but even if it does approve of him, that's hardly vindication of being a good guy.

 

[jazzflower92]

It doesn't make him a good guy but it does give him the label of designated hero by the Lifestream.

 

[ForceStealer]

No more than Diamond Weapon was a "hero."

 

[jazzflower92]

No more than Diamond Weapon was a "hero."

To quote Mystery Science Theater 3000 "Our hero, ladies and gentlemen!"

It makes one wonder how self centered the Planet really is when you think about it and then realize no wonder it chose Genesis because they really aren't so different.

 

[Roger]

It doesn't make him a good guy but it does give him the label of designated hero by the Lifestream.

Which would be fine by itself, but you have to pair that with Zack's own forgiving nature and seeing himself in Genesis' early ambitions of becoming a hero like Sephiroth making him sympathetic to Genesis and Lazard being influenced by Genesis' childhood Angeals cells, making his hatred and lust for revenge by replaced by a desire to save Genesis. And so the conversation becomes unambigiously about helping and saving Genesis and not stopping the villian once and for all. There's nobody left in the story to acknowledge that what Genesis did is a big deal. Again, it was perhaps the intention to have sequel to this story where Genesis has to deal with Cloud and AVALANCHE instead of Zack, who have much less interest to give Genesis to the time of day but that story isn't in the cards anymore, leaving us with an incomplete narrative.

 

[ForceStealer]

Again, it was perhaps the intention to have sequel to this story where Genesis has to deal with Cloud and AVALANCHE instead of Zack, who have much less interest to give Genesis to the time of day but that story isn't in the cards anymore, leaving us with an incomplete narrative.

That's always what I kinda figured.
Which is why I would prefer to see Square finish what they started rather than just leave it there. The people that say "they should leave it alone so as not to screw it up further" are usually the people that already despise the Compilation, so what is there to lose? And maybe - just maybe - they could wrap it up it up on a good note.

 

[jazzflower92]

That's always what I kinda figured.
Which is why I would prefer to see Square finish what they started rather than just leave it there. The people that say "they should leave it alone so as not to screw it up further" are usually the people that already despise the Compilation, so what is there to lose? And maybe - just maybe - they could wrap it up it up on a good note.

The problem is people have lost confidence that Square could pull it off good.

 

[ForceStealer]

But even if it wasn't good, as long as Genesis got his comeuppance, we could stop having this conversation

 

[jazzflower92]

But even if it wasn't good, as long as Genesis got his comeuppance, we could stop having this conversation

One keyword you also have put in is "if". Because he might also have a chance of never getting it because some of the developers and writers might make him again into a creator's pet who never answers for his misdeeds.

 

[ForceStealer]

Whether he gets killed or recants, I doubt it will go unmentioned. Maybe he'll off himself to satisfy both sides. Whatever, point is the story as it is now is incomplete. And not in a good makes-you-thing kinda way. It's just incomplete and I would prefer they finished it. I'm not saying they should drop everything and do it. But they've got 4 more years in the window that Wada said the Compilation would be around for.

And that's almost enough time for Square to put together a trailer

 

[jazzflower92]

Whether he gets killed or recants, I doubt it will go unmentioned. Maybe he'll off himself to satisfy both sides. Whatever, point is the story as it is now is incomplete. And not in a good makes-you-thing kinda way. It's just incomplete and I would prefer they finished it. I'm not saying they should drop everything and do it. But they've got 4 more years in the window that Wada said the Compilation would be around for.

And that's almost enough time for Square to put together a trailer

If Square is having a long time releasing FF15 then I have a feeling it doesn't have enough time to make a final game for the Compilation let alone a trailer.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well...a trailer would take a lot less time than the game, but yes, that was the joke

 

[jazzflower92]

Well...a trailer would take a lot less time than the game, but yes, that was the joke

I just hope Cloud doesn't easily forgive him like Zack did if the make the next game.Although Cloud would not know him all that much since he never really interacted with him.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

We'll be lucky to get KH3 by the 20th anniversary of FFVII, and it was just announced. That milestone is only three and a half years away at this point.

Which makes me think they will probably make a big sub-plot for the FFVII cast in KH3. That will likely be our 20th anniversary send-off for FFVII.

 

[Jarlix]

We're going to have FFVII 4 with Old Cloud crawling around wearing a mechanical eye patch and tons of monotonous and dreary diatribes about how he's no hero and this is his last mission.

I honestly want the next FFVII game to have a Let's Mosey edition with fruity italics title font and Barret on the cover wearing a glitter scarf around his neck and pink star sunglasses.

But seriously, I do not think it'd be a momentous leap of imagination to think they could retool XV's engine for a FFVII action RPG sequel. Maybe even shoe in ATB for some skill selections and weigh out the fighting with menu crawling. Lord knows Cloud's AC shenanigans have been the bread and butter of their game design ever since.

I just wish he had his VII personality. Snarky bastard. You know, crazy crossing dressing guy he was. And cold hearted and catlike at times.

 

[ForceStealer]

For the record, cross dressing was not his idea and at no point was he a fan I agree otherwise though, and took solace in him being cocky in Dirge, sying "What do you think?" When Vincent asked the stupid question of whether they'd be all right. Made me hopeful about subsequent appearances.

 

[Arianna]

It's one thing to not get what's coming for you, it's another to get actively rewarded for your efforts in the manner of your choosing. Genesis wanted to be the hero to a goddess and not die. If that meant throwing everyone he comes into contact with under the bus to get that far then he'd gladly do so. And at the end he gets exactly that, Minerva appears, gives him a big thumbs up on his efforts and heals him. Genesis now serves as the Planet's hero. The End. Seriously, that's how the Compilation ends.

I don't think it's over.

 

[Unlucky]

Sometimes I wonder if Square realized how much shit they smeared into the FFVII lore and if they couldn't figure out what to do with it anymore.