Winter is coming...

[Ⓐaron]

It's extremely possible. In fact, it's usually regarded as the most likely explanation of his parentage. Here's a good overview, and here's another one (even though it's on lol angelfire). Here's a third one. I think there are light spoilers for books two and three but nothing that's a major plot twist.

It hasn't been officially confirmed yet, however, but Sean Bean saying something along the lines of "even if he were my son" about Jon, p. much confirms to people that he probably isn't Eddard's son. Even though there was loads of textual evidence suggesting this already.

 

[Cookie Monster]

GRRM better tell us before he kicks the bucket, or I will go apeshit.

 

[Splintered]

And now that you have finished book welcome to the WONDERFUL WORLD OF WAITING. I actually had a friend tell me this after he recced me the book a few (four?) years back.

I was like "nah, I'll be okay, I got it into it relatively late in the game, how bad can the wait be?" LITTLE DID I KNOW.

Haven't gotten through all the books, but I heard there's a possibility Jon Snow could be a Targaryen. Is that an actual possibility or just a load of bullshit?

This is pretty much the favorite fan theory. I don't know a lot of people that doubt it. In fact, it's gotten so popular that some fans actually despise it for being "too obvious" although the obviousness is probably due to overanalyzation than the writing.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Also, you'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge, but when I went to find an avatar to use, I saw a shit load of shipping between Jon and Daenerys on Tumblr. Is that a possibility or just retarded fanaticism?

Too much incest going on, imho.

 

[Dana Scully]

Also, you'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge, but when I went to find an avatar to use, I saw a shit load of shipping between Jon and Daenerys on Tumblr. Is that a possibility or just retarded fanaticism?

Too much incest going on, imho.

>targaryens
>incest

they kinda go hand in hand

 

[Zee]

Also, you'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge, but when I went to find an avatar to use, I saw a shit load of shipping between Jon and Daenerys on Tumblr. Is that a possibility or just retarded fanaticism?

Too much incest going on, imho.

For her family it's completely normal; I mean shit, better Jon Snow than her actual brother, I guess.

Spoiler: spoilers for ADWD seriously

And one of Dany's prospective husbands is her nephew, so.

But Jon/Dany makes a weird kind of sense. While initially I didn't get it at all, in the middle of ADWD I can see why it appeals to people. There's a lot of parallels in their character arcs, and their storylines dance around each other in a way that makes you want to see them finally meet. Or at least know each other. I don't even ship it but damn I get aggravated sometimes that neither one knows the other exists.

There's also the theory that Jon and Dany are the Ice and Fire that the story is about which is cool.

Personally I want Dany and Marg to get married, flip off all of Westeros, and burn anyone who says shit.

And it was the best kingdom ever.

 

[looneymoon]

There's also the theory that Jon and Dany are the Ice and Fire that the story is about which is cool.

I kind of got this impression just from watching the show? I was wondering what "A Song of Ice and Fire" meant and Jon/Dany was what immediately came to mind. I dunno about shipping, but they do act as really interesting foils.

Though I guess it could also refer to the whole Summer/Winter theme.

I really wish I had time this week to read more of the book. I really wish I got HBO. I have to probably wait for the end of the week before I can do anything Game of Thrones

Also, you'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge, but when I went to find an avatar to use, I saw a shit load of shipping between Jon and Daenerys on Tumblr. Is that a possibility or just retarded fanaticism?

I divorced you only to become your next wife. I think it's fate.

 

[Splintered]

Jon and Dany have actually to meet in the books. Most of it is fandom is speculation. Especially as mentioned before, Dany/Jon -> fire and ice, east and west ->dragons and wolves -> Stark and Tageryans (last time I checked Dany really didn't like the Starks). I don't really care for the pairing either way, but considering the massive amounts of fucked up ships in this book incest is one of those things you don't even blink at.

I guess it works for the unity thing, although I'm one of the fans hoping that the country is divided by the time the books end. Or the others win. Either one would be awesome.

 

[Zee]

I kind of felt that Dany was meant to help the Wall. Only guessing, but with all the crazy creatures that are going to come spilling out, it seems like her dragons are meant to fight that war. Also her Unsullied could not be a better fit for sworn brothers if they tried.

But I don't think anyone gunning for the throne is actually going to get it.

I guess it works for the unity thing, although I'm one of the fans hoping that the country is divided by the time the books end.

Spoiler: spoilers up to asos

considering jon has claim to winterfell if he wants it, and sansa is still married to tyrion and by rights has a claim to casterly rock, it would be REALLY FUNNY if the starks ended up owning pieces of this broken kingdom.

but what am i saying

they'll probably all be dead

:' )

 

[looneymoon]

why do i click spoilers

someone ban me from these threads pls

 

[Splintered]

I kind of felt that Dany was meant to help the Wall. Only guessing, but with all the crazy creatures that are going to come spilling out, it seems like her dragons are meant to fight that war. Also her Unsullied could not be a better fit for sworn brothers if they tried.

Dragonfire= defeating Others seems to be a destined thing. Then again, GRRM likes trampling on hopes and dreams, so who knows. In any case, defeating the Others feels like the only way I could actually see Dany transitioning smoothly as Queen- not unless one of her dragons can then magically spew bread out of its mouth (KING BREAD and all of that). But no one will question a savior.

But I don't think anyone gunning for the throne is actually going to get it.

Spoiler: spoilers up to asos

considering jon has claim to winterfell if he wants it, and sansa is still married to tyrion and by rights has a claim to casterly rock, it would be REALLY FUNNY if the starks ended up owning pieces of this broken kingdom.

but what am i saying

they'll probably all be dead

:' )

Didn't GRRM once say that whoever gets the iron throne would be unexpected?

OTHERS FOR IRON THRONE.

Spoiler: LOONEY DO NOT CLICK THIS

Oh man, I'm a Stark fan and although nothing in this book will end happy, the only thing I really want more than anything is for the Stark kids to have a reunion. A good one. All of Westeroes can burn tbh, as long as I have that moment.

And it will probably never happen :'I

My second, third, and fourth wish is to have the Freys, the Greyjoys, and the Boltons eat shit and die.

The probably of this happening is much better. :3

I have a feeling either the Tyrells are going to win the South, or implode magnificently. I like marg and all, but my real Tyrell love is the Queen of Thorns. Bad ass grandma, but they are playing too safe and too powerful for them always to play second place all the time in the books.

I don't think Lannisters are going to last long, with Cersei's prophecy, Jamie's heel face turn, and Tyrion being disavowed.

The books hint that Robb gave Jon rights to Winterfell just in case, but Jon's denied it on all counts for the Brotherhood and the Wall. Then again he was killed by his brothers and the Wall will probably fall in one of the books so much for that.

Bran is likely going to be godmoding for awhile. Oh, and he lack of his chapters are a source of rage for me, they were the most interesting. And I find the whole thing incredibly disturbing. Rickon is also probably batshit raging right now. They are trying to use him as another player but I don't think he's controllable. Arya's an assassin and doesn't seem to have any interest in playing the game.

Then there's Sansa and I don't know where she's going. Whether she's going to be a major player, she's going to stay or throw off Littlefinger's influence, or what have you. I see theories all the way from, she'll be evil, she'll die, she'll rule in Eyrie, she'll be the Stark in Winterfell, to hell- she'll win the game of thrones. I'll just be happy when she starts her own plans.

 

[Ⓐaron]

looney seriously don't click on Splintered's latest spoiler. Seriously I mean it.

But yes, good post and I agree with p. much all of it.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Didn't GRRM once say that whoever gets the iron throne would be unexpected?

Also,

I divorced you only to become your next wife. I think it's fate.

Spoiler

 

[Zee]

Spoiler: big reply to splintered

I have a feeling either the Tyrells are going to win the South, or implode magnificently. I like marg and all, but my real Tyrell love is the Queen of Thorns. Bad ass grandma, but they are playing too safe and too powerful for them always to play second place all the time in the books.

I am holding my breath for the Tyrells. They're a smart, powerful force that knows how to play the game, and for the most part they (or at least Marg) leans more towards the "good" side, even if they use underhanded methods.

So either they'll find a way to survive, or the family will just crumble. I really just don't want Marg to die.

I'd also like to see more of the Martells because that family is pretty cool too.

I don't think Lannisters are going to last long, with Cersei's prophecy, Jamie's heel face turn, and Tyrion being disavowed.

Watching the Lannisters just cave in on themselves is one of the best things about the series. I can't wait til Cersei and Jamie's death scene, tbh. HIS HANDS AROUND HER THROAT; THEY CAME INTO THIS WORLD TOGETHER THEY'LL LEAVE IT TOGETHER

Rickon is also probably batshit raging right now. They are trying to use him as another player but I don't think he's controllable. Arya's an assassin and doesn't seem to have any interest in playing the game.

tbqh I think Arya is halfway to crazytown too. She's not as out of control as Rickon, but it always disturbs me that a lot of her fans are like YEAH ARYA IS SO BADASS and well okay but can we take a moment to realize this is a 12 year old girl who's already desensitized enough to commit murder? The girl ain't right.

Then there's Sansa and I don't know where she's going. Whether she's going to be a major player, she's going to stay or throw off Littlefinger's influence, or what have you. I see theories all the way from, she'll be evil, she'll die, she'll rule in Eyrie, she'll be the Stark in Winterfell, to hell- she'll win the game of thrones. I'll just be happy when she starts her own plans.

Yeah, Sansa's been forced to play it safe for a long time. I would love it if she trumped Littlefinger at his own game, but who knows. I just don't want her to be at anyone's mercy anymore.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Spoiler

Arya is incredibly fucked up. That's one of the reasons I find her character so interesting. It's p. obvious that she's been hugely emotionally scarred by what she's been through and is coping in destructive ways. However it's hard to care that much about a fairly large number of the people she kills because most of them were pretty big assholes. There are the odd number who are just doing their job though, like the guard in Clash or the King's Landing stableboy, but one could arguably justify them as being the result of war.

 

[Cthulhu]

fuuu have to wait until I finish DwD before reading those spoilers .

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Just finished blood & gold.

Spoiler

I have to say I wasn't expecting Tyrion to kill off Tywin at the end.
I love him for it but still wasn't expecting it

Also I find my previous love of littlefinger diminishing after the whole "You look like your mother......give us a snog" section.
Although killing off Lysa was about 3 books overdue

Now off read the remaining books!

 

[Ⓐaron]

Note for people outside the U.K.: Blood and Gold is the second half of A Storm of Swords, which was split into two books there (the last words of the first half, whose subtitle I can't recall, were "He rode until dawn, while the stars stared down like eyes"). Don't read Scott's spoiler if you haven't finished at least A Storm of Swords. Seriously, don't.

 

[Lex]

OMG I'm halfway through a storm of swords (the full version) why did I click that. Fuck my life.

 

[Tsunami Shijo]

The Prequels

Has anyone read the prequel novellas? The Hedge Knight, The Sworn Sword, and The Mystery Knight? Known collectively as "The Adventures of Dunk and Egg." GRRM said he plans to write a total of nine, and the 4th one is to be published this year.

While there isn't any direct connection to the events in ASOIAF, there are things in ASOIAF that refer back to characters or events in the novellas. For example, Brienne manages to get her hands on Sir Duncans' shield, Egg is the nickname of Aemon Targaryen's brother, King Aegon the Unlikely, and

Spoiler

The Three-Eyed Crow is in the story as he was in life, as Brydnen Rivers, a Targaryen bastard.

So now on to popular fan theories. These are really seriously spoileriffic, so DON'T CLICK IF YOU HAVE NOT READ ALL FIVE BOOKS, or if you want things to be a surprise in the later stories.

If these have been discussed before, my apologizes, but I'm just not up to rereading ton's of thread info and the search function didn't help much

Jon's Heritage

Spoiler

Anyone heard the theories surrounding Jon's parents, and the fact that Ned Stark may actually be his uncle? Jon snow may be the third head of the dragon, the son of Prince Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark. While it blew me away at first and seemed totally unlikely, a huge amount of evidence to sustain this theory was presented. I'm totally up for an info dump if people want to discuss this.

Jaime and Cersei - Birth and Death

Spoiler

While the hints may be red herrings, there are about three clues in the books so far that suggest Jaime and Cersei are not Lord Tywin's trueborn children - instead, they may have been fathered on Joanna by the Mad King, who was known to be infatuated with Joanna and "took liberties" at the wedding of Tywin and Joanna. It might give insight into Jaime and Cersei's incestuous relationship, and Cersei's slow descent into madness and the madness seen in Joffrey.

Also, Cersei fears Tyrion because of the prophecy of Maggie the Frog, where she is told that Cersei will die at the hand of the "valonqar." In Valyrian, this means "little brother", but we can't forget that Cersei was born first- making Jaime her "little brother." I think it'd be incredibly fitting for Jaime to kill Cersei. I effing hate Cersei and Jaime is awesome. While Jaime becomes a more and more respectable man and we see he was never exactly evil, more an embittered victim of circumstance, while we see Cersei becoming more vile and bitter, betraying the brother she claimed to have loved over and over again.

Also, random note about the end of book 5: did anyone notice that Daenerys

Spoiler

miscarried?

I didn't notice it either until someone pointed it out.

 

[Hisako]

Also, random note about the end of book 5: did anyone notice that Daenerys

Spoiler

miscarried?

I didn't notice it either until someone pointed it out.

Wait WAT

 

[Ⓐaron]

Jon's parentage:

Spoiler

Rhaegar+Lyanna is well-known, and almost universally believed to be his parentage. It's been mentioned several times on these forums already. I'm pretty sure most fans of the series here are familiar with it, though people who don't use the internet or haven't read these threads might not be.

Book five end:

Spoiler

It never explicitly says Dany miscarries, but:

So, Dany bleeding and specifically mentioning it wasn't her time of the month was kind of odd.

What was that prophecy again?

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

(page 931) "The grass was paler than she remembered, a wan and sickly green on the verge of going yellow. After that would come brown. The grass was dying."

You know, the grass of the dothraki sea.

Quentyn is from house Martell. Their sigil is the sun. He rose in the west(eros) and died, or set in the east

If someone can find a reference to mountains blowing in the wind, I think this is solid.

So yeah. This isn't anywhere near as solid as R+L=J but it's quite possible that she has in fact miscarried.

Regarding Jaime+Cersei's parentage, that is a fairly common fan theory as well, but nowhere near as common as the theories surrounding Jon. I'm personally a lot more sceptical about the Jaime+Cersei theory than the Jon one.

 

[Hisako]

I... would have thought Martin would have put more significance into that though

 

[Tsunami Shijo]

For the end of book five:

Spoiler

I do think she miscarried - however I don't see why people are tying it into Mirri Mazz Durr's quote and acting like it's a prophecy. As far as I can tell, it was essentially her saying "Drogo will be as he was when pigs fly" i.e. never.

She says that Dany will never bear another living child - not that she will never continue to menstruate or even conceive. This is why Dany continues to get her period, and is able to conceive, but cannot carry a child to term. She's always doomed to miscarry.

Mirri's quote was a response to the question about when Drogo will be normal again. To suggest that this is a prophecy that could be fulfilled means that Drogo will come back to life, completely okay and normal.

You know, after his zombie corpse was burnt to ashes.

Though more significantly, his death was the catalyst for the return of dragons into the world, and her own rebirth (perhaps as Azor Ahai, with Drogo being her Nissa Nissa) as well. For him to come back to life and everything will be a-okay at this point would make everything she went through sort of moot.

In this world, there is always a steep price for bringing someone back from the dead - it gives GRRM's world a more realistic feel, despite still being fantasy magic. Coldhands is still a cursed wight, Beric's sould was consumed by R'hllor, Lady Stoneheart is a vengeful, barely coherent rotten corpse, and Dany sacrificed essentially her child's life to turn Drogo into nothing more than a soulless shell of what he once was.

And that's why I think Mirri's quote is irrelevant, at least in regards to Drogo himself.

I've heard people say it COULD be a reference to Drogo being reincarnated as Drogon, with the mountains blowing in the wind being the ashes of the pyramids of Mereen, but it's hard to tell at this point.

I'm glad we're all on the same page regarding Jon then. I haven't talked much online about it with people, and everyone I have spoken with IRL about the books didn't know about it.

I'm thinking the Jaime/Cersei stuff could be a red herring, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Cthulhu]

Thanks for spoiler tagging book 5 spoilers guys, I'm about halfway I think, . And not making much progress the past few days, I pass out after reading just one and a half page, .

Haven't read the prequels yet; should pick those up after this. I also should find a way to read the rest of the huge stack (two-three boxes) of other books I haven't read yet, .