Woops I got wings: Angeal Hewley

[Andalegogo]

So, in the end, Angeal was stated to have been the "perfect" result of Project G. There was only one thing he wasn't supposed to do, and according to Hollander, that thing was combine with the degenerating forms of his copies.

It's clear that Angeal Copies degenerated, but this was never the case with Angeal himself.

What exactly does it mean to be the "perfect" result of Project G? Does this imply that Angeal could have stopped Genesis and Sephiroth if he so pleased?

Ultimately, the goal of either Project G or S were the same, so I'm assuming that while Sephiroth's rise to perfection was with him from birth, Angeal would've acquired the same status later in life.

This would make Angeal and Sephiroth two of a kind.....right?

 

[Suzaku]

I believe that both Angeal and Genesis were failures as far as the Jenova Project was concerned, but in regard to their own unique abilities, Angeal's ability and the process which resulted in it are "perfect", whereas Genesis's were flawed.

Genesis was a failure because his cellular makeup was unstable, he was subject to eventual degradation and death, and he was only able to pass on the memetic abilities of his cells, causing hosts to become replicas of himself, with greatly accelerated degradation.

Angeal is "perfect" because his cellular makeup was relatively stable, and while he had the same ability as Genesis, he was also able to intigrate his copies into himself, at the cost of his own cellular instability and resulting degeneration.

Sephiroth's abilities are harder to define, except that he doesn't have the precise memetic cellular abilities Genesis and Angeal seem to have, because his cellular makeup isn't subject to degradation. He is, however, able to impose his will upon virtually any life form that contains his or Jenova's cells, providing their will is weaker than his own. He is also able to reintigrate his cells and, if they are seperated, can reunite them. This allows him to reform, even if his cells are completely disseminated within the Lifestream.

Regardless, it's important to note that none of the subjects were really successes, at least not in regard to the originally stated goal of the project, because Jenova, of course, wasn't a Cetra at all.

 

[Mitch Connor]

[quote author=Suzaku link=topic=249.msg13445#msg13445 date=1233535634]
Angeal is "perfect" because his cellular makeup was relatively stable, and while he had the same ability as Genesis, he was also able to intigrate his copies into himself, at the cost of his own cellular instability and resulting degeneration.[/quote]
Wasn't Angeal the successful specimen because he didn't degrade? I don't remember any Angeal copies ever degrading, they were all just injured or killed

 

[Makoeyes987]

No, Angeal copies degraded. Look at Lazard, and the flying Angeal dog thingy that rested in Aerith's church.

ALL G-Type Series SOLDIERs degrade. That means both Angeal and Genesis degrade. Genesis just degrades faster, but they're all flawed. None of them get beyond the fate of degradation.

I don't know what exactly makes Angeal the "success." Because both of them share the same inherent flaw.

 

[Nocturne]

And Angeal wasnt as strong as Sephiroth or Genesis. He wasnt weak, but hmm. I dont understand why he was so perfect, unless his copies were able to take a form other than himself.

 

[ForceStealer]

I always just figured it was Hollander saving face or masturbating his ego or something. It was no loner possible for him to insist that Genesis was his crowning achievement so he suddenly cared only about Angeal.

As for the copies degrading, was that simply a factor of the hand-me-down Jenova cells or is Shinra's cloning process flawed? For example, if they made a Sephiroth Copy the way they made Angeal and Genesis ones, would that also degrade? Because as it stands "Sephiroth Clones/Copies" only get Jenova cells, not Sephiroth's.

Just a thought.

 

[Mitch Connor]

[quote author=Nocturne link=topic=249.msg14040#msg14040 date=1233644082]
And Angeal wasnt as strong as Sephiroth or Genesis. He wasnt weak, but hmm. I dont understand why he was so perfect, unless his copies were able to take a form other than himself.
[/quote]

Well we dont really know how strong Angeal is, he could be on Genesis' level. I figure that Angeal Penance wasn't as strong as his regular human form and that's why he chose to use it to fight Zack (other than to show Zack he is a monster).

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sephiroth can't be copied, remember?

The reason Sephiroth is a perfect monster is because he doesn't degrade. He doesn't create copies. Thus his genetic information doesn't get corroded or spread too thin.

It's not the copy technology. It's an inherent flaw of G-Series SOLDIERs. The ability to make "copies" causes the side effect of degrading.

 

[Tetsujin]

Talking about wings, I still wonder what the hell makes them show up in the first place.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's Jenova, obviously. Jenova is the cause of the wings manifesting on people like that who've been products of the Jenova Project.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

And what of Jenova causes people to have wings who are injected with her cells?

Angeal was pretty cool of a character. I liked his talk about dreams, honor, discipline, etc. I liked the concept of his character, someone who seemed to care about those around him, yet still wasn't a stick in the mud or high on himself. Although what happens to him is really sad.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well Jenova is seen with what looks like makeshift, mutated wings, and the encasing which has her likeness on it has wings.

So clearly there's some connection between wings and her.

 

[Tetsujin]

Agh, you fool D=

I mean, what triggers the wing effect?
Is it like "Dude, we experimented on you and btw, you should have a wing or something."
"Really...?" *wing pops up* "Fuck, you're right."

...or what? O.o

 

[Makoeyes987]

Probably has something to do with their mental state and how they perceive themselves.

Angeal's wing first manifests when he learns the truth and finds out he's a monster. Same goes for Genesis.

As for Sephiroth, the same could go for him but by the time he learned the truth he got hurled into the Lifestream. Then, years later his wings appeared when he became Safer Sephiroth.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

And yet it's only one wing and still they can fly. Law of physics be damned, damned I say! lol

Anyways, the concept of the wing appearing due to mental state is probably the only logical explaination that one can make. I can't figure anything else out either.

So can anyone tell me what was up with Angeal and his mother?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Angeal's mother was one of the lead scientists of Project G along with Hollander.

http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/340/crisis-core-ultimania-scenario-qa/#more-340



This ties in all of the details of Crisis Core's plot. In essence Gillian, who's name spawned the project name "Project-G" is one of the last remaining scientists who worked on the project and is ashamed of it. And held one of the keys of curing Genesis's deterioration. However, she felt guilty and didn't want to be used for that.

Banora wasn't the friendly apple town it appeared to be either.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Man that sounds like a rip-off of Sephiroth's story. Hollandar's like a rip off of Hojo, Gillian's a rip off of Lucreia and the whole concept seems like it's been "copied" (LOL) from Sephiroth's story.

That said Angeal is definitely refreshingly different.

 

[Makoeyes987]

There are parallels between Genesis and Sephiroth, but there are also key differences that show how they're meant to be opposities. I think they were purposefully illustrating their thematic opposites.

Genesis having a demonic shaped wing as opposed to Sephiroth's angelic one. Genesis being seen as a traitor and rebel while Sephiroth was seen as a hero. Genesis having deep family connections and friendships as a kid, while Sephiroth had nearly none. They have similar back stories on the surface but the key differences start to show when you really look close.

 

[Nocturne]

Well we dont really know how strong Angeal is, he could be on Genesis' level. I figure that Angeal Penance wasn't as strong as his regular human form and that's why he chose to use it to fight Zack (other than to show Zack he is a monster).

Well, it was said that Genesis was equal to Sephiroth in power. He was the only other one who was. Angeal isnt mentioned at all with those two so I would suspect he isnt as strong as them.


The parallels between Genesis and Sephiroth are also important to how Genesis said he should have been the hero. It's not necessarily that Sephiroth deserved to be called that, but it was more the role was made for Sephiroth. Honestly, I would assume Genesis was easier to get along with and would probably be more well liked on a personal level than Sephiroth since he had friends and got along with people. I think that would be a better face for the public without being forced into a role.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Did you read Angeal's profile?

Expecting them to speak about Angeal's capacity compared to Sephiroth, in Genesis's profile is a bit silly.

 

[Nocturne]

Yeah, I've read his profile a while back. I could be mistaken, but I dont remember them saying anything about him being as powerful as either one of them. Of course he is one of the top 3 first class soldiers, but like I said.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Besides for Penance, Angeal didn't really get too much focus when it came to his combat capabilities compared to Genesis and Sephiroth, so I can see why people would wonder.

 

[looneymoon]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=249.msg14156#msg14156 date=1233685077]
Angeal's mother was one of the lead scientists of Project G along with Hollander.

http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/340/crisis-core-ultimania-scenario-qa/#more-340



This ties in all of the details of Crisis Core's plot. In essence Gillian, who's name spawned the project name "Project-G" is one of the last remaining scientists who worked on the project and is ashamed of it. And held one of the keys of curing Genesis's deterioration. However, she felt guilty and didn't want to be used for that.

Banora wasn't the friendly apple town it appeared to be either.
[/quote]

This sounds very familiar, as if I've heard it somewhere before...

Oh, right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c#noexternalembed&feature=related

 

[ForceStealer]

Wasn't Angeal primarily a mage? He focused on magic, Sephiroth focused on physical power, and Genesis blended the two? I remeber hearing that but we never actually saw Angeal USE magic (except MAYBE Quake/Earth on Zack, and of course Penance used it)

 

[Tetsujin]

Nah, he was never supposed to focus on magic or such.