"You Only like FFVII so much because it was your first RPG"

[Jiro]

I should also note that I think my first RPG was Lufia II and I don't really remember much about it and although it's held in high regard it's not exactly featured on my favourite games list. Probably just makes me an idiot for not playing it but -- no, yeah, it does make a fool, I should play it and make sure I give it a chance to leave an impact. Kid Jiro wasn't exactly good at gaming.

 

[Danseru-kun]

To add to the discussion...

Casper was the earlier movie I can remember - It's a nice movie but not a fan of it that much
Starcraft was my first videogame - it's classic and epic but I'm not really into it
Flying House is my first anime - Liked it because it's Christian not because it's my first
SF vs X-Men is my first fighting game - Well never felt passionate about it
Phantom Menace is my first Star Wars- ehhhh I don't like it that much even though I think it doesn't really suck
Spirits Within is my first Final Fantasy experience (I didn't know Chocobo Racing was FF when I played it.) And I never liked SW :/

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

My first RPG was Chrono Trigger.

I'm a hipster and it really upsets me that FFVII is the most popular game in the series. I have tried very hard not to like it as much as I do, but to no avail. All I can do is mask my preferences by pretending in public that my real favourite is XIII Versus, a game so cool it doesn't even exist: it's a virtually real virtual reality. Thank god for this forum, the one place where I can be open about my true feelings.

I agree with pretty much everything Lex said.

 

[Splintered]

How are you suppose to counter this argument?

You don't. I mean, even if you wanted to, you can't. It's arguing about your own tastes, the discussion would look like this:

"I like X"
"No you don't"
"... what"

It's a tremendously stupid discussion and not worth your time, and if you do find yourself arguing it, do so with extreme sarcasm and maybe a glass of an alcoholic beverage; "Oh man Professor X, thanks for telling me how I feel about my own stuff, for a second there I almost had my own opinion. Tell me more about my own experiences, I truly value all your totally relevant observations on my life."

They'll either call you an asshole, or they play along and that's usually fun too.

Final Fantasy is a fandom full of people that just love telling you how you feel about different games.

 

[looneymoon]

Beyond the Beyond was my first JRPG and I will be the first person to admit it's a piece of shit but I still love it, even if it is for nostalgia's sake.

 

[Lord Noctis]

The term overrated is overrated. Absolutely EVERY game is overrated by those who like it, and underrated by those who don't. Its just relative.

Basicly this. The term overrated, and the term underrated for that matter, are utterly meaningless.

Everyone rates each game exactly as much as it deserves from their perspective. It is very much subjective.

Anyway, first RPG was FFIV. Played Chrono Trigger and FFVI after that, then there were some other ones that I don't remember. After that I played FFVII, and I liked it better than hwat came before. Only jrpg I've played since that really compares is FFIX.

In short, your arguement is wrong and you should feel bad.

 

[Roger]

Final Fantasy VII isn't the first RPG I have played, it's not even one of the first five Final Fantasies I have played. It's still my favorite.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

"I like X"
"No you don't"
"... what"

Well that about sums it up. Not much more to say beyond that. Unless there are lulz to be had here, in which case let's keep this going forever.

 

[Ghost X]

Devil's advocate time.

Ignoring the context and history of the argument in the thread title, which results in fan rage, etc, I have no issue with the structure of the argument ("you like X because of Y"), nor do I have any problem with someone making an argument with that structure. I actually dislike it when people think they know themselves better than others could, which can lead to scenarios like "I don't have a drinking problem!" when such is clearly the case based on all the evidence.

I think the argument itself, "You only like FFVII so much because it was your first RPG", does have some merit, but only in that there is a likelihood that a benchmark kind of bias might be created when playing something for the first time, to which you judge all other games that are similar. I can't quote studies or find them, so feel free to dismiss, but I'm certain I've read about such a bias.

Importantly though, while the argument may be able to be applied to some people, it can't be applied to all.

 

[Flintlock]

Let's get mathematical.

I have no issue with the structure of the argument ("you like X because of Y"), nor do I have any problem with someone making an argument with that structure. I actually dislike it when people think they know themselves better than others could, which can lead to scenarios like "I don't have a drinking problem!" when such is clearly the case based on all the evidence.

I can't say whether or not I have a problem with the structure of the argument because I don't know what the structure of the argument is!

You Only like FFVII so much because it was your first RPG

Who is "you"? Does it refer to one specific person, or to everyone whose first RPG was Final Fantasy VII, or to everyone?

If I had to guess, I'd say that the use of the word "only" implies that it applies to everyone. That being the case, the argument would be more correctly written like this:

Any given person likes Final Fantasy VII a lot IF AND ONLY IF it was the first RPG they played.

That's very easy to disprove: all we have to do is find someone whose first RPG was Final Fantasy VII but who doesn't like it a lot, or someone whose first RPG wasn't Final Fantasy VII but still likes it a lot. We've already had multiple examples of both categories in this thread.

If I'm mistaken, perhaps clowd could clarify it a little and I'll look at it again

 

[Fangu]

lol! I thoroughly enjoyed reading that, Flint.

Discrete Mathematics says the two sentences are:

A: VII was your first RPG
B: You like VII

The sentence says that A is the premise for B, meaning that A must exist for B to happen. Which means that if you find someone that like VII without having it be their first RPG, you've already proved the statement wrong.

Then you can do 1 - (A | B) or whatever it is (Flint halp) for the various variations (English lol) to find other ways of proving the statement wrong.

 

[Ghost X]

Don't get mathematical, because then I have to research my shit, and actually know what I'm talking about .

The use of the term "only" is short hand for "the only reason". The argument's intention is for everyone, but that is where it fails, as said in my previous post. It would be better written:

Some people like FFVII so much because it is their first RPG.

That's something I could agree with.

 

[Ite]

My response:

"I happen to like FFVII as a game because the materia system is elegant, the level design is compelling, it's easy, and it's one of only six games that have the ATB system, a system I enjoy.

I happen to love FFVII as a story because the themes are presented succinctly and sometimes subtly - themes of identity, memories, life, and belonging. Unlike many games, FFVII has caused me to rethink myself and my life, and forced me to broaden my views on the universe and approach living my real life in new ways.

Please don't belittle my interests, I am not doing any harm to you."

 

[Abortedj]

Well... it wasn't my first RPG. Second, I don't like FF7 all that much, or 8, 9 was by far the best of the PS1 entries in my opinion.

My first video game RPG would of been Dragon Warrior or the original Final Fantasy, don't remember the order I played them. If you count it as one, Zelda could be the first really.

 

[Octo]

"You only like cake because its delicious!"

"No, thats not true, I appreciate its wedge shape"

I just remembered the first FF I played was Mystic Quest, if that counts - and many would say it doesn't.

I do have some sympathy for these people, like I know how that kind of irrational resentment feels when something you like becomes popular all of a sudden. Or when something you percieve to be shit - in my case many bands - become ridiculously popular and everybody is talking about them all the time and the radio wont stop playing the same stupid fucking song and you want people to fuck off because THEY can't possibly KNOW what they're talking about. THEY don't KNOW MUSIC like I do. ;_;

Basically its just feels somehow threatening, I think particularly if like me you build your music/gaming/reading preferences into your personality. Then its like nooooo my special snowflake status is under threat from all these shitmunching cowpeople/ or noooo nobody likes the same stuffs as meeee FOREVER ALONE.

Something like that. But then life is too fucking short and we are not the things we like or even the things we say. WE AM THE THENGS WE DO!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Octo, you are so damn sexy, I swear.








Now just bring back that pregnant thing and all my fantasies can be fulfilled.

 

[looneymoon]

if i'm wrong for being mad that things like two and a half men and supernatural remain popular then i don't want to be right

 

[Kittie]

If the Zelda games are counted as RPGs, since I've seen some debate on whether they are or not, then Ocarina of Time would be my first, followed closely in behind with the PC version of FFVIII, which I've sadly never finished—on the PC, let alone on any Playstation gaming console. XD

And that's a tough one to say which FF game I would rank as my number one favorite. I love FFVII; that much is for certain, but I adore FFIX. Playing it is such a guilty pleasure!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Regarding the topic: FFVII was my first RPG (I think; since Zelda apparently doesn't count), and while certainly one of my favorites, it isn't my numbah one.

 

[Octo]

Octo, you are so damn sexy, I swear.


Now just bring back that pregnant thing and all my fantasies can be fulfilled.

No u! Anyway, pregnancy is liek soooo 2012! Contemporise maan!

@Rishi, yeah in the case of Two and a Half Men.... It's like yeah I try and be a reasonable person and think live and let live, different strokes for different folks and all that and then I can't take it anymore and its HOW CAN ANYONE LIKE THAT CRAP?! THERE MUST BE SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH THEM ON A FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL THEY MUST ALL BE JETTISONED INTO THE SUN FOR THE SAKE OF HUMANITY.

pheew...that felt good.

 

[AvecAloes]

FFVII was also my first, and while I sometimes struggle to place it for certain at number 1, it does remain up in my top three at the very least, but that's because it's a good game. A damn good game. Sure, I can see where people might think it has problems, but every game does. I take it for what it was, and I like it. The characters were compelling, the story was good (especially once I started understanding more of it, which admittedly was after I'd already played the game), and I was completely new to the RPG genre, and found myself incredibly fascinated by the storytelling and gameplay.

"You only like CoD so much because you're a douche", I believe is how I might respond to someone who came at me with the OP statement

 

[Kittie]

Regarding the topic: FFVII was my first RPG (I think; since Zelda apparently doesn't count), and while certainly one of my favorites, it isn't my numbah one.

Then I guess FFVIII was my first RPG, then. That makes me happy on so many levels!

 

[Flintlock]

lol! I thoroughly enjoyed reading that, Flint.

Discrete Mathematics says the two sentences are:

A: VII was your first RPG
B: You like VII

The sentence says that A is the premise for B, meaning that A must exist for B to happen. Which means that if you find someone that like VII without having it be their first RPG, you've already proved the statement wrong.

Then you can do 1 - (A | B) or whatever it is (Flint halp) for the various variations (English lol) to find other ways of proving the statement wrong.

I'm not quite sure what you are referring to with 1 - (A | B). I'm not familiar with that notation, sorry!

I think you might have been getting at the fact that a logical equivalence (A is true if and only if B is true) is the same as two separate implications (if A is true then B is true, and if B is true then A is true). In which case, yes, there are multiple ways of proving the equivalence wrong. Only one is needed though

 

[Tetsujin]

My first RPG was Monkey Island on the Commodore 64. I loved it, but I like VII more

Not an RPG though, it's a point and click adventure.

 

[Kuroto]

I'm here to prove everyone wrong!

Any given person likes Final Fantasy VII a lot IF AND ONLY IF it was the first RPG they played.

That's very easy to disprove: all we have to do is find someone whose first RPG was Final Fantasy VII but who doesn't like it a lot, or someone whose first RPG was Final Fantasy VII but still likes it a lot. We've already had multiple examples of both categories in this thread.

lol! I thoroughly enjoyed reading that, Flint.

Discrete Mathematics says the two sentences are:

A: VII was your first RPG
B: You like VII

The sentence says that A is the premise for B, meaning that A must exist for B to happen. Which means that if you find someone that like VII without having it be their first RPG, you've already proved the statement wrong.

Then you can do 1 - (A | B) or whatever it is (Flint halp) for the various variations (English lol) to find other ways of proving the statement wrong.

Flint, if we go by your logic, the argument would apply to no one. Also the thing you did is not mathematical, it's just academic.

And Fangu, you are missing some key points of the argument.

So what does the argument say. It says that: "You only like FFVII SO MUCH because it was your first RPG".

The argument would be a lot different if you leave those two words out, because then it would be implying that it is the only reason you like the game. At the moment the argument is though that the fact that FFVII was your first RPG increases your liking of the game. So what the sentence is saying is that you like the game more because it was your first RPG and implies that you might not like the game as much as you do if it wasn't.

So I think the argument already implies that you like FFVII and that it was the first RPG you played. I don't think the argument is valid if these two facts don't come together. Now you can argument against it that there are people whose first RPG was VII, but who don't necessarily like it that much, but in a way there is no way to prove it's completely wrong, because if we consider the argument to be valid only with people whose first game was FFVII and who liked it, we have to also understand that they might not be aware of the fact that this makes a difference. The only way such people could counter the argument is by saying that they think they would have liked the game as much even if it wasn't their first, but it can't be proven.

Now the question is, does the argument even have to be countered?