"You Only like FFVII so much because it was your first RPG"

[Fangu]

I'm not quite sure what you are referring to with 1 - (A | B). I'm not familiar with that notation, sorry!

I think you might have been getting at the fact that a logical equivalence (A is true if and only if B is true) is the same as two separate implications (if A is true then B is true, and if B is true then A is true). In which case, yes, there are multiple ways of proving the equivalence wrong. Only one is needed though

Yes, exactly. They're called Conditional Propositions in Discrete Mathematics (or "computer mathmatics" as I like to call them.) Here's the URL I used for this.

Say

p: VII was your first RPG
q: You like VII

The phrase "if and only if" is represented by the symbol ⇔
p ⇔ q

"You like VII if and only if VII was your first RPG"
p is a necessary and sufficient condition for q.

You can only like VII if VII was your first RPG.

By using Sufficient Conditions in a truth table, it is proved that p ⇔ q only is true when both p and q are true, or both p and q are false.

"You like VII if and only if VII was your first RPG"
"You don't like VII if and only if VII was not you first RPG"

This leaves no room for in betweens. The truth table

p q p ⇔ q
T T T
T F F
F T F
F F T

shows that for statements like

"You don't like VII if and only if VII was your first RPG"
and most importantly
"You like VII if and only if VII wasn't your first RPG"

are untrue.

Which means, like you've found, there can't be people who like VII and who's first RPG wasn't VII. If they exist, the statement is untrue.

(I think I did that right.)

 

[Alex Strife]

Now the question is, does the argument even have to be countered?

I think not. Let everyone like whatever they like and however they want.

Actually, if someone actually tried to tell ME how I feel about my own preferences, I would just shrug and move on.

 

[Flintlock]

Flint, if we go by your logic, the argument would apply to no one.

What makes you say that? If we find someone whose first RPG was FFVII and who likes it a lot, wouldn't it apply to them? I'm happy to admit that it holds a special place in my heart because it was the first RPG I played, or perhaps more precisely, because it was the first RPG I enjoyed; I wouldn't feel the way I do about it now if it had been crap.

Also the thing you did is not mathematical, it's just academic.

It was logical, and logic is an area of mathematics.

So what does the argument say. It says that: "You only like FFVII SO MUCH because it was your first RPG".

That's why I included "a lot" into my phrasing of it. I accept that's not completely accurate either, but that's because the argument is ambiguous. I was just giving my interpretation of it, as I said, and I asked clowd, the original poster, to correct me if I was wrong

in a way there is no way to prove it's completely wrong

Even if that is the case, the burden of proof should still lie with the person making the claim. It's the same as if someone says "there's no way to prove that there is no god". While true, it could just as easily be said "there's no way to prove that there is a god". So we're back where we started.

I thanked your post because it took me by surprise, in a good way!

 

[Kuroto]

What makes you say that? If we find someone whose first RPG was FFVII and who likes it a lot, wouldn't it apply to them? I'm happy to admit that it holds a special place in my heart because it was the first RPG I played, or perhaps more precisely, because it was the first RPG I enjoyed; I wouldn't feel the way I do about it now if it had been crap.

Let's go back to your original post, you said:

That's very easy to disprove: all we have to do is find someone whose first RPG was Final Fantasy VII but who doesn't like it a lot, or someone whose first RPG was Final Fantasy VII but still likes it a lot.

So are you saying that it disproves the argument or that it applies to the argument. Sorry darling, you have to pick one or the other.

It was logical, and logic is an area of mathematics.

Yes, and it is also part of many other things. I was just trying to say that it's not only maths. And when I see someone talking about maths I expect numbers and calculations. And real numbers not some imaginery ones that you like to use these days.

That's why I included "a lot" into my phrasing of it. I accept that's not completely accurate either, but that's because the argument is ambiguous. I was just giving my interpretation of it, as I said, and I asked clowd, the original poster, to correct me if I was wrong

I know, and I think your phrasing was pretty good, though I guess I phrased it a bit differently.

Even if that is the case, the burden of proof should still lie with the person making the claim. It's the same as if someone says "there's no way to prove that there is no god". While true, it could just as easily be said "there's no way to prove that there is a god". So we're back where we started.

I know, but for some the doubt still remains. Anyway I didn't comment on who would have to prove their case. I think it really doesn't matter if the fact that VII was your first RPG is connected to your liking of the game. If you like it, then you like it. Of course it could be argued that liking the game based on that fact is not proper reson to like it, but that's another fight.

 

[Flintlock]

So are you saying that it disproves the argument or that it applies to the argument. Sorry darling, you have to pick one or the other.

Wasn't *

Dammit. That was kind of crucial typo to make. Sorry for the misunderstanding! To be fair, I was doing it in secretively in a lecture. A maths lecture

 

[Ite]

My first RPG was Tales of Destiny. Man that was fucking bad.

 

[Ghost X]

My first was:

 

[Cthulhu]

Oh god there's maths in this thread my head hurts KILL ME NOW

 

[AvecAloes]

I skipped over the math posts after trying to read the first one made

 

[Fangu]

Oh god there's maths in this thread my head hurts KILL ME NOW

I would understand that as you don't have a science based job

O wait --

 

[Kai Schulen]

My first RPG was Tales of Destiny. Man that was fucking bad.

LIES. FILTHY LIES. [/biased because Destiny was my first Tales game]













Going slightly off tangent but I'm really sad that ToD Remake won't ever be released outside of Japan.

 

[Soakette]

Final Fantasy VII wasn't my first rpg. I got into Final Fantasy after I went to my cousins house and he was watching AC and then gave me VII and VIII to play. I like it because of its characters, story and the world they live in. I just think its cool. It's not my favorite RPG though. I actually don't have a favorite RPG. I like most of the ones I've played equally.

 

[robotwarui]

my first RPG involved dice and pencils. y'all make me feel old!

 

[AYAHIRANO]

Nah..It's not my first RPG,I couldn't remember my first one,coz' I started playing games at like 3 (?) and I've played a lot of games back then,so I couldn't remember the first RPG I played...Anyways,back to the topic on hand,I like FFVII because it has a great story and the cast were great (Though I'm certainly not a fan of Cloud.)...Sephiroth is the type of villain you would sympathize with,coz' he was not truly evil,in fact,he was kind and friendly back then in CC,but when he learned about Jenova,he went mad and came to believe that the "Calamity from the sky" is his mother (In reality,Lucrecia is his true mother.) and that it is his birthright to rule the planet.

FFVII may have average gameplay,but it has a great storyline. (I wish there was an actual remake.)

 

[Sprites]

Ultima IV:Quest of the Avatar for the Sega Master System was my first RPG, didn't understand it because I was so young at the time of playing it (only 5). FFVII however will always be an RPG I'm fond of because it was the first Final Fantasy to get me into the series but it's by no means my favourite

 

[Ⓐaron]

my first RPG involved dice and pencils. y'all make me feel old!

D&D was my second RPG, for whatever that's worth. There were like 10 years in between my playing FFIV and playing another console/computer RPG.

 

[Tennyo]

How are you suppose to counter this argument?

"It was not my first RPG".

I guess I'd counter it like that

Same for me. It wasn't my first, either.

I don't know if I can say that I even have a favorite.

I think my first RPG was Mario RPG.

 

[PhantomSephiroth]

That's one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen. Well, it ain't really one, it's more of a provocation.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

If so, its a provocation that worked. What with it having provoked us into 5 pages of replies and such

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

FFVII was not my first RPG. It wasn't even my first Final Fantasy game. Pokemon Red was my first RPG, and FFX was my first Final Fantasy, and while I dearly love both, I like VII better than both of those games.
And tbh, Red and Blue are my least favorite Pokemon games.
Counter that, bitches.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Not all of our firsts end up being our favorites

 

[Ⓐaron]

Yeah, by this logic, the first time you had sex would end up being your favourite. Which almost never happens; the first time is almost always fumbling and awkward

 

[Carlie]

I don't remember what my first RPG was, I started playing video games when I was 3, I do know that the first FF I touched was FFVII. Also yeah logic from first post was stupid.

 

[Aki]

I had played some platform RPG's and such, Wonderboy and th Dragons Trap, Wonderboy 3, Golden axe warrior. But when VII came out I thought I'd give it a try after seeing it a few times in the rental store.

And it simply blew me away, it was just the size of the game. Ive played most of the other FF titles and a few other rpg's and jrps's. VII just holds a special place to me like most people who grew up on it.


To alot of my generation it was kind of in a smaller way like our StarWars. It changed our views on media. IX was also an epic game as what X (took me 2 playthroughs to acutally make my mind on this one).

Even XII has very good gameplay, just the story and characters let it down.

I think its just becuase at the time VII was a very well rounded game that was unlike what many of us had seen.

Let the haters hate