SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[GamerSkull]

That feel when you can’t use evidence from the actual game so you have to pull it from marketing material. Ha!

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I hope some of the Cleriths I met back in the day have seen an improvement in their mental health since then, lest they fall into catatonia when there is no cope big enough.

Delusional!Cloud: I totally got into SOLDIER! I made first class! Who the fuck is Zack?!

Post Highwind!Cleriths: And you love Aerith! You were never into that slut Tifa! Who the fuck is Zack?!

Together: We're not crazy you're crazy!!

Maybe I finally see where their attraction is coming from...

Edit: Fat fingered a bunch of vowels and realized I forgot to type part of my own joke.

 

[redoak77]

So this is supposed to be the ultimate end all arguments proofs that Cloud and Aerith is canon :

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1771030628626288823

Its always that damn Pepsi cup too

 

[Graymouse]

I think I read this long ago at the start this thread.


The burden of proof does not fall on C/T. In order for C/A to exist C/A has to prove that there is nothing but a platonic relationship between C/T.

Edited to add: Cloud has known TIfa all his life. Cloud has only known Aerith for a few weeks at most before she dies.

There is not enough time spent with Aerith to have a meaniful relationship with Cloud.

 

[shady]

oh boy, could you imagine the amount of drama that will happen if this is true.

After the events of FF7 is complete, Cloud and Tifa in the main game world kiss and then walk off hand in hand and Zack and Aerith kiss and walks off into the lifestream or the alternate world hand in hand.

I mean I don't think it will happen exactly like this, but if it does end up leading to AC as they say then that will basically be the gist of it.

 

[GamerSkull]

I hope they end Part 3 with Cloud standing on the Highwind deck.

“I’m going to keep on living.”

Checkmate for people that believe he’s waiting to die to be reunited with Aerith.

“We’ve always kind of had each other” says Tifa.
“Yeah, but now I know what that means” says Cloud.

End the game with those lines from OTWTS.

 

[Shadowfox]

Here’s the link:

x.com

x.com

McDonald’s Plans Anime Version Of Its Restaurant In L.A., Will Offer New Anime Shorts And Manga

A McDonald's in L.A. will be transformed into a WcDonald's as part of an anime rollout in March

deadline.com

Seems like a limited time only stunt. McDonald's is even partnering with Studio Pierrot to produce some anime shorts.

 

[GamerSkull]

I think I read this long ago at the start this thread.


The burden of proof does not fall on C/T. In order for C/A to exist C/A has to prove that there is nothing but a platonic relationship between C/T.

Edited to add: Cloud has known TIfa all his life. Cloud has only known Aerith for a few weeks at most before she dies.

There is not enough time spent with Aerith to have a meaniful relationship with Cloud.

I mean, even if they CT has the burden of proof, they have quite a bit of evidence to back them up.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Its always that damn Pepsi cup too

They endorse it I think before the game was released of course you're gonna endorse C/A they need to highlight Aerith again for the sole purpose soo her death' will hurt and SE will destroy everything you believe in disc one so the disc 3 and all revelations will be higlighted in the end.

But then again its useless to even bother.

My 'push away' to mostly people who post that.. "anything new? oh yeah cuz the latest buzz has been updated and C/A captions has mostly been removed why?? cuz its an illusion even back in OG.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Well, I don’t know. I honestly can respect if they prefer Aerith. I just don’t quite understand how they must have perceived the story after the Forgotten Capital.

Apparently:

- Cloud’s feelings for Tifa were “fleeting” based on a supposedly more accurate translation of a quote from a guidebook

- Aerith is the canon love interest and Tifa is just an option to throw a bone to the shippers

- Because Aerith is the canon love interest, any interaction between Cloud and Tifa is inherently platonic or one-sided and therefore doesn’t count

- Because Aerith is the canon love interest, any option that favors Tifa is out-of-character and is in conflict with the true love story and therefore doesn’t count

- The Rebirth theme song is about Aerith’s feelings for Cloud, therefore any development between Cloud and Tifa optional or otherwise doesn’t count

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Because we said so! - A bunch of dishonest Cleriths if they were being honest

 

[cgnVirtue]

Maybe I'm just being naive, but I'm less worried about the Lifestream sequence, because 1) it doesn't come at the end of the game like Aerith's death where they tend to throw all their wonky shit at the wall. 2) They've generally handled everything related to Tifa's character much better.

The cynic in me would argue that's because Tifa's character is so directly tied to Cloud's. I remember groaning when I saw the illustration from the 25th anniversary were portraits of Cloud, Zack and Sephiroth -- it's like women, who?? But I think it was instructive. Not only does Tifa's arc share many of the same beats as Cloud's, but to understand Cloud's arc, you have to understand why he's so in love with/so desperate to impress Tifa, and also why he thought she was so unattainable that he had to join SOLDIER to do so.

Remake/Rebirth goes out of its way to show why Tifa is the kind of "dream girl" you'd go to war for -- practically every man is in love with her, and every woman idolizes her, even if they're suspect/jealous from the start. But Tifa also doesn't just exist for Cloud, she has meaningful relationships with other characters, so we can understand why Cloud would believe -- oh, she only likes me the way she likes everyone else. (Which definitely was not the case in the OG).

Though to their credit, they've also given her enough flaws to make her feel like a believable person and they've shown us how much she cares for Cloud/what he means to her/and why she would be willing to drop everything to stay by his side. I guess I really shouldn't be complaining, because having the masses love her is so much better than me trying to defend her from accusations of being Cloud's childhood bully, lmao.

But yeah, I do think the mini-LS sequence in Gongaga is how they're going to approach the real deal in part 3. Even if we have some other characters/forces at play like the Whispers/Weapon/Sephiroth bringing her to her core memories, the emotional revelations in the scene itself are going to be all about Cloud/Tifa.

I'm thinking that resolving the Cloud being deluded about Aerith being alive thing is going to come after the Lifestream sequence. Once he accepts the emotional truth of why he remembers the Nibelheim Incident the way he did, why he was hiding under that grunt mask, it seems he's able break through the influence of the Jenova cells. After they leave the Lifestream, he remembers/recounts what Hojo did to him on his own when he's explaining everything to the party on the Highwind, and he's able to remember Zack on his own in the Shinra Mansion basement. These moments aren't in the Lifestream sequence itself because they don't really have anything to do with Tifa.

I might be in the minority, but I actually don't think they'll kiss after the Lifestream (not that I'll complain if they do, lol). Because while it is extremely romantic, imo, it's beyond mere romance, like this is some real soulmate shit. It almost feels like something romantically-coded like a kiss would diminish the intense, almost uncategorizable connection they have (the fate of the world literally rests on it!) by putting too fine a point on it?

Also, if they kiss after the Lifestream, what is the game building up to for Under the Highwind? Unless they're going to play the "Will they or won't they?" game with "Are they going to fuck?" LOL. Which, honestly would be incredible, but may end up feeling a bit anticlimactic if part 3 is going to stick with a T-rating.

I’m going to show my bias here but I need Cloud and Tifa to kiss in the Lifestream if not for them then for my own soul. Not to be dramatic but if I have to wait until the Highwind it’s gotta be non-optional because if I have to go back and do hours of side quests just to see my boy real Cloud and my girl Tifa kiss on screen I will explode and die.

In all seriousness I do hope it will be non-optional whenever it does happen. My heart needs their feelings to culminate in something concrete regardless of player action. Even to show that it’s not only Tifa but also how Cloud feels regardless of what happens in the story.
But that’s just me indulging my inner CloTi . The optimist in me is sure that whatever we get will be what we didn’t know we needed.

 

[liuliuliu]

i hope they can rearrange the event and feature real cloud more in the game

 

[Graymouse]

Extreme C/A are funny! Thing is that all GS dates, LA and HA all are canon. All GS dates happen at the same time. Including Dudes night out and Yuffie date. Whatsmore there is no such thing as optional scenes. That is just C/A cope mechanism showing through. Have you ever heard C/T say, oh that doesnt count because it was an optional scene to support C/A? No, it is only brought up after a C/A brings it to the table.

Yes you have to work harder at getting the HA version, but the LA version is no less important than the HA version to the strory.

As far as the two heroines go, Both dates happen simultaneously [LA and HA] and one got an intense romantic smootch and the other was Cloud and Areith talk about her dead X boyfriend and then hold hands for a few minutes interlocking hands. (how romantic )

Edited: I wasnt trying to quote.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I'm triggered again who will tell this guy the real symbolism of this picture?

REAL CLOUD is getting further away and he's closer enough to be manipulated by Sephiroth. While Aerith is again being delusional with her so called 'love' she's also father away to fulfill her destiny.

Tifa is far from Cloud - hence real cloud is father away
Soldier Cloud is holding much to his 'persona' hence easier for Sephiroth to manipulate him
Aerith is being delusional as well with Cloud and still unable to move on from Zack's death she will not learn how to properly communicate with Lifestream

Main persons of external conflict being delusional none is going to save the planet.

 

[GamerSkull]

View attachment 15095

I'm triggered again who will tell this guy the real symbolism of this picture?

REAL CLOUD is getting further away and he's closer enough to be manipulated by Sephiroth. While Aerith is again being delusional with her so called 'love' she's also father away to fulfill her destiny.

Tifa is far from Cloud - hence real cloud is father away
Soldier Cloud is holding much to his 'persona' hence easier for Sephiroth to manipulate him
Aerith is being delusional as well with Cloud and still unable to move on from Zack's death she will not learn how to properly communicate with Lifestream

Main person of external conflict being delusional none is going to save the planet.

Wow, that’s a reach lol

 

[cgnVirtue]

View attachment 15095

I'm triggered again who will tell this guy the real symbolism of this picture?

REAL CLOUD is getting further away and he's closer enough to be manipulated by Sephiroth. While Aerith is again being delusional with her so called 'love' she's also father away to fulfill her destiny.

Tifa is far from Cloud - hence real cloud is father away
Soldier Cloud is holding much to his 'persona' hence easier for Sephiroth to manipulate him
Aerith is being delusional as well with Cloud and still unable to move on from Zack's death she will not learn how to properly communicate with Lifestream

Main person of external conflict being delusional none is going to save the planet.

I have recently gone out of my way to block any people showing signs of… whatever takes like this are called. I’m not about to argue with someone who doesn’t know how to critically analyze media. It has been a disappointing amount of people.

 

[Empyrea]

Shit was wild. Meeting in the flower fields for spirit sex!

I hate that you just have to remind me of that cursed fanfic...

Hey everyone!
Been lurking here for the past week or so after trying to find a place to discuss Rebirth that's not Twitter because omg there are some truly head-scratching and downright nasty takes on there. So, it's been super refreshing to see that there's really fruitful and substantive conversations about the story of this game here and I felt compelled to make an account and chime in myself now!

To fully disclose my bias, I caught the Cloti bug ever since I played the OG 10 years ago and it has lasted through Remake and now Rebirth. But, I didn't want to project my desire to see Cloud and Tifa together and be as objective as I could while playing through Rebirth the first time and see what Nojima was cooking. Although excerpts from the Ultimanias and what we know from OG basically already confirm their romance, I wanted to see how their relationship blossoms and builds from Remake and see what is actually written in the text of the game and not let anything sway my perspective. And there's one part of the game that just undeniably shows why Cloud and Tifa were written to be together and that's Chapter 9 in Gongaga.

Spoiler: Spoiler thoughts!

After Cloud almost kills Tifa at the reactor, it's important to look at how he reacts once he gains his mind back from Sephiroth. He screams her name and goes catatonic. In very much the same way that he reacts to Zack's death in OG and CC, he loses the person he depends on for his strength because he was too weak to protect them, and thus loses his will to go on. We see later after Tifa's Lifestream sequence that he has already accepted that he did kill her and needed a good slap in the face by Barrett to come back to his senses once the Weapon returns Tifa to them. It's as if he feels like he doesn't deserve to know that Tifa was actually alive. But there's so much hurt and desperation in Cloud that he needs to go check on Tifa's body. Even Barrett says that Tifa needs HIM. Then the game fast forwards a bit in time to Cissnei's house where we see Yuffie, Red, Cait Sith, and Barret mulling over what happened in the living room while Aerith waits near the door, curious about how Tifa is doing while Cloud watches over her.

But what I always come back to and what I don't see people talk about enough is this: how did we even get here? Why did the party decide to leave Tifa alone in a room with the person who literally almost killed her with no apparent argument or discussion? Regardless if Cloud made the decision to be alone with her or not, I argue the game placed them in these exact positions for a reason. I think the whole party knows Cloud is hurting inside and wants to make up for what he did. They trust that Tifa has the patience and forgiveness of a saint and that Cloud and Tifa will hash it out together. But, most importantly...

They are all aware of the depth of Cloud and Tifa's feelings for each other. They know that they need their time alone.

And I wanna focus on Aerith at this point too because I disagree with the all the homewrecker accusations that have been thrown at her character on Twitter.

Firstly, Aerith and Tifa are really close FRIENDS, and I feel like people don't want to acknowledge that for some reason. Back on the Shinra-8, they literally were about talk about the boys they loved, or more accurately their "first loves" according to the French translation, before being interrupted by the crew. They're seen multiple times together doing their own thing outside of the rest of the party and have a whole section of the game dedicated to them (and Red) at Costa del Sol. And yet, even Aerith knows and agrees to defer to Cloud when it comes to Tifa at Gongaga.

Second, Aerith is a smart woman. She sees how Tifa instinctively goes to care for Cloud and how physically intimate and comfortable Cloud and Tifa are together. And, I don't think that Cloud and Tifa are quiet enough during the Gongaga scene that only Yuffie and Cait can hear them. I'm pretty sure Aerith can hear the whole conversation going on, and she knows exactly what's happening. To hear Tifa make a super intimate promise to Cloud that it's Tifa's turn to save him and remembering her talk with Tifa about their "first loves", I think she can put two and two together. And when Yuffie is cheering for the two lovebirds to kiss, Aerith doesn't even step in to stop anything. In fact, I think she's secretly rooting for them too. She can hear how tender and loving they are to each other because it's undeniable at that point. And when Tifa opens the door and looks at Aerith, you would expect some unease or awkwardness from her if you were to believe some CAs, but no that's not what happens! I think it's the French translation that subtitles the inaudible words to Tifa as "Everything will be alright." which is not what you expect if you believe Cloud and Aerith should be together.

So to put it all together, we basically have the worst kept secret between everyone in the party that Cloud and Tifa intimately rely on and are smitten for each other. Yuffie and Cait Sith make this very obvious in Gongaga, but I think even Aerith shows that she's acutely aware of the fact that Tifa is really the one that knows how to get to the real Cloud. And remember, this is a NON-OPTIONAL, CANON scene that makes it very clear that Cloud and Tifa love each other and that everyone knows it. This isn't even getting to the Under Junon scene, another non-optional scene where there is clear romantic tension, or the kiss on the Skywheel where the devs make it clear how Cloud would act if Tifa is his date at the Gold Saucer. And I didn't even really get into what Cloud and Tifa said to each other in Gongaga and it's already so obvious.

A little late, but welcome!

This was after the Game Awards trailer, the one that heavily baited Clerith, with the almost kiss moment from their date, and the No Promises to Keep song debut.

A lot of very extreme Cloti’s didn’t respond well not only to all of the above, but to the fact that at this point Tifa had barely been in any of the marketing (according to them, completely forgetting a lot of the marketing prior to TGA trailer played up Sephiroth trying to drive a wedge between Cloud and Tifa, and the simple fact that they chose to keep a lot of Tifa’s stuff under wraps for the game itself)

Anyway, these extreme Cloti’s expressed their anger at Nojima, and one Japanese Cloti (NOT Jairus) threatened to kill Nojima, and a lot of the well known Aerith hating extreme Cloti’s liked those tweets with the threats against Nojima.

This instance had nothing to do with Jairus.

This was what also led to the response of “Thank You Developers of FFVII” viral thing on Twitter where people tweeted the hashtag thanking the developers of FFVII, to try and wash away the negativity and toxicity that arose from TGA trailer.

View attachment 15090View attachment 15091

Can't help but notice a little bit of pot calling the kettle black there at the bottom of the second tweet. But these kind of people are...all kinds of yikes...

Man these people are ridiculous. I feel sorry for the developers. I don't care who you ship, you shouldn't be doing things like this, it's really not that deep. It gets to the point that don't they even realise doing stupid shit like this could even cause them to think twice in the future about actually doing the things you want? What incentive does Nojima have to push through a Cloud and Tifa finale if Tifa fans are attacking him like this? People don't use their brains at all

Hayao Miyazaki did it best xD I heard from my sister that when he was sent death threats for Darling in the Franxx, he reminded them all that he had the script and if they kept pushing, he'd kill everyone but the gal they disliked and that shut everybody up.

I mean, even if they CT has the burden of proof, they have quite a bit of evidence to back them up.

Namely, the entire game!

 

[Eerie]

It’s a shame but also not a surprise some of the more vocal shippers don’t come here because the pattern seems to be “set up a false premise to an audience that already agrees with you, then plug your ears at people pointing out that false premise.”

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1771273770361098293

The position that I’ve consistently noticed with some people is that “the romance is optional, but here’s why the devs actually intended for Cloud and Aerith to be the real romance of FF7”. The rest of that Twitter thread elaborates further, but I often see this presumption that Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is negligible and it sounds smart to shippers but unfortunately sometimes affects casual fans’ perceptions especially when coming from people with an online presence.

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of the roles that Cloud’s relationships with Aerith and Tifa play in his character arc. As I’ve said, shipping whoever you want will never be a problem to me. But I can’t take anybody seriously as a “fan” of FF7 if they're so blinded by shipper goggles that they seem to only ever pay attention when one girl is on-screen while turning their brains off for anything related to the other girl.



I’m not proud of how I kept up with his online behavior after being banned from here, but I just knew that dude would cross the line at some point. Check this thread if you wanna see just how deep the rabbit hole went. (Unsurprisingly, he’s the one who started that thread in the first place.)

Perseverance (Jessie/Clessie Club)

Perseverance - A Cloud & Jessie Club https://www.deviantart.com/thestrifeisrife/art/Am-I-a-bad-person-Cloud-827032464?ga_submit_new=10%3A1579075798 "Cloud and Jessie inside the Sector 4 Plate" by Odysseus Jessie breaks down when the weight of what she's done through her bombs becomes too...

thelifestream.net

You want to know what’s funny with that guy? He pretends to be neutral lol. And also his bff are extreme CAs. I’ve blocked him a long time ago when I stumbled in one convo and he was being pretty stupid. Like if all you got are bad takes you’re 100% getting a block from me because I don’t have that kind of time (my Twitter being private I just don’t care lol).

 

[Empyrea]

Honestly, I feel like they know they’ve already lost and all of this is just them trying for one last attempt. They’re like Bombs. They explode once they’ve been hit enough and are about to lose.

Like the bomb on Tifa's bracelet?

Nobody is debating whether Aerith pursued Cloud, she totally did. Most CT fans don’t deny that.

It’s a shame but also not a surprise some of the more vocal shippers don’t come here because the pattern seems to be “set up a false premise to an audience that already agrees with you, then plug your ears at people pointing out that false premise.”

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1771273770361098293

The position that I’ve consistently noticed with some people is that “the romance is optional, but here’s why the devs actually intended for Cloud and Aerith to be the real romance of FF7”. The rest of that Twitter thread elaborates further, but I often see this presumption that Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is negligible and it sounds smart to shippers but unfortunately sometimes affects casual fans’ perceptions especially when coming from people with an online presence.

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of the roles that Cloud’s relationships with Aerith and Tifa play in his character arc. As I’ve said, shipping whoever you want will never be a problem to me. But I can’t take anybody seriously as a “fan” of FF7 if they're so blinded by shipper goggles that they seem to only ever pay attention when one girl is on-screen while turning their brains off for anything related to the other girl.



I’m not proud of how I kept up with his online behavior after being banned from here, but I just knew that dude would cross the line at some point. Check this thread if you wanna see just how deep the rabbit hole went. (Unsurprisingly, he’s the one who started that thread in the first place.)

Perseverance (Jessie/Clessie Club)

Perseverance - A Cloud & Jessie Club https://www.deviantart.com/thestrifeisrife/art/Am-I-a-bad-person-Cloud-827032464?ga_submit_new=10%3A1579075798 "Cloud and Jessie inside the Sector 4 Plate" by Odysseus Jessie breaks down when the weight of what she's done through her bombs becomes too...

thelifestream.net

If anything, the claim is that to some, Aerith comes off as desperate since she seems to understand their relationship even without her future memories.

Well, I don’t know. I honestly can respect if they prefer Aerith. I just don’t quite understand how they must have perceived the story after the Forgotten Capital.

I wanna know this as well.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I think I read this long ago at the start this thread.


The burden of proof does not fall on C/T. In order for C/A to exist C/A has to prove that there is nothing but a platonic relationship between C/T.

Edited to add: Cloud has known TIfa all his life. Cloud has only known Aerith for a few weeks at most before she dies.

There is not enough time spent with Aerith to have a meaniful relationship with Cloud.

Okay, the words burden of proof have been uttered, thus I must step in and elaborate.
So, both C/T and C/A suffer a burden of proof. They are both positive claims. What they AREN'T is interlinked. C/T does not have the burden of disproving C/A. It just does not work like that. Even if they are competing hypotheses, disproving C/A does not prove C/T and vice versa. Instead both must satisfy their own individual burdens of proof, and if they do not, we arrive at a null hypothesis, that Cloud does not love X.
That said, there's lots and lots of textual evidence that Cloud is interested in romance with Tifa. Like, once per chapter at least he SAYS something, often TO Tifa about wanting to do something with her once this is all over, or how - for example because I just did this quest - even if they didn't know each other very well as kids, it's never too late to change that. Hell, even lines in dialogue towards Aerith - the ones that get Aerith affection points, mind - sometimes refer to Tifa, like affirming her assumption that he sat and watched Tifa's window waiting for a wave.

Hypothesis and their evolved forms, theories, are all about being a coherent explanation of as much of the evidence as possible without being contradicted by it, preferably with the fewest additional hurdles. C/A fails on both counts. It has much in the way of evidence that contradicts its main points and it must jump through hoops to rationalize discrepancies in Cloud's words and actions.

I have recently gone out of my way to block any people showing signs of… whatever takes like this are called. I’m not about to argue with someone who doesn’t know how to critically analyze media. It has been a disappointing amount of people.

Blue Curtain Analysis is one way to put it.

I hate that you just have to remind me of that cursed fanfic...

You're welcome!

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

How have they not promoted you to Supreme Deus Admiral yet? I swear, I'm gonna have words with the committee about this.

Also genuinely thinking a god of pedantry and debate might be a fun addition to my homebrew D&D setting, would you be offended/honored if I named e'em after you? They could hang out with DIO, barbarian god of epic song and story... and fruitlessly try to correct his lyrics to be historically accurate

 

[GamerSkull]

Okay, the words burden of proof have been uttered, thus I must step in and elaborate.
So, both C/T and C/A suffer a burden of proof. They are both positive claims. What they AREN'T is interlinked. C/T does not have the burden of disproving C/A. It just does not work like that. Even if they are competing hypotheses, disproving C/A does not prove C/T and vice versa. Instead both must satisfy their own individual burdens of proof, and if they do not, we arrive at a null hypothesis, that Cloud does not love X.
That said, there's lots and lots of textual evidence that Cloud is interested in romance with Tifa. Like, once per chapter at least he SAYS something, often TO Tifa about wanting to do something with her once this is all over, or how - for example because I just did this quest - even if they didn't know each other very well as kids, it's never too late to change that. Hell, even lines in dialogue towards Aerith - the ones that get Aerith affection points, mind - sometimes refer to Tifa, like affirming her assumption that he sat and watched Tifa's window waiting for a wave.

Hypothesis and their evolved forms, theories, are all about being a coherent explanation of as much of the evidence as possible without being contradicted by it, preferably with the fewest additional hurdles. C/A fails on both counts. It has much in the way of evidence that contradicts its main points and it must jump through hoops to rationalize discrepancies in Cloud's words and actions.


Blue Curtain Analysis is one way to put it.


You're welcome!

Thing is, I don’t even think a lot of CT fans even want to disprove CA. A lot like myself do see the beginnings of a romance that was cut short… it’s just that feelings for Tifa essentially override them by the second half. Heck, I bet a lot of them are just following what seems to be canon rather than be shippers.

 

[Ryushikaze]

How have they not promoted you to Supreme Deus Admiral yet? I swear, I'm gonna have words with the committee about this.

Also genuinely thinking a god of pedantry and debate might be a fun addition to my homebrew D&D setting, would you be offended/honored if I named e'em after you? They could hang out with DIO, barbarian god of epic song and story... and fruitlessly try to correct his lyrics to be historically accurate

Absolutely you may name a god in my honor. Go right ahead.

Thing is, I don’t even think a lot of CT fans even want to disprove CA. A lot like myself do see the beginnings of a romance that was cut short… it’s just that feelings for Tifa essentially override them by the second half.

Now seems a good a point as any to bring up the distinction between attraction and romance. Like, Andrea and Madame M are probably attracted to Cloud, for example, but neither would want to pursue a romance. I think it's much the same way with Cloud towards Aerith. He thinks she's a nice girl, very pretty, but Tifa exists and thus Cloud has no interest in pursuing that avenue of thought. He does not dislike Aerith, he has merely filed her away as "not currently interested" and then later as "Not even in the realm of pursuing because she's still in love with her first love who by the way is Zack my best friend."

 

[Eerie]

More than disproving CA, I think most don't really care. I completely think this game has shown us that Cloud only saw Aerith in a friendship way - a nakama way, so why would we care when we have a kiss?

Does he love her? Yes, however it's not romantic - and even herself doubt what kind of feelings she has for him in the end, IMHO a big setup for zerith. Her line in the church says that "at least I know where we stand" is a clear acceptation that he doesn't see her that way. If fans want to see CA as romantic they can but they'll always be hit by that line near the end of the game, and in no way is this a line showing they are on the same level, romance-wise.

His romantic feelings are reserved for Tifa, and SE themselves went their way to say Cloud was loyal with a picture of the promise. They gave us a whole arc of their blooming romance, punctuated with a kiss, promising us a huge drama for the next game - and we know it's not even the best part for us, since we still have the Lifestream and the HW scene. Why would we spend time disproving another pair when the game proves our pair?