SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Hellenic]

The narrative use of this Aerith would, I think, be for reuniting with and maybe lore dumping at Zack later on and neither of them would join Beagleverse.

I still don't think i would like that. I'd prefer they stay dead no matter what world they are in.

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

First, Hix, great post. Still, there is one thing about Rebirth that still bothers me and I think it relates to this idea and Omni-Aerith's (that's what I'mm calling the Aerith that has the WM memories) behavior in general...

And this is precisely why no reunion, in person at least, was forthcoming between the two in Rebirth. It would be impossible on all levels for Cloud and Aerith to keep the same story beats as in the original (Cloud stuck in his SOLDIER persona fed by the promise of being her bodyguard, Aerith treating Cloud as a stand-in for Zack) if Zack is literally there. It simply could not happen in part 2 or it's over, done, finito when we still have a full game of emotional payoff ahead.

Spoiler: Rebirth Chapter 14

I think this is narratively holds true for Rebirth!Aerith but isn't true for the Aerith that has the White Materia. I mean, Omni-Aerith has to know Zack is out there...somewhere, because I'm assuming she's the one who sends Zack to the destroyed church with Meteor in the sky to fight Sephiroth Reborn, as well as creating the portal that takes him from that destroyed church to the actual church in a world with a Stamp of unknown breed.

It's kind of impossible for Aerith to keep the same emotional story beats as the original because there's a version of Aerith that already has
experienced those specific beats. It's why I find it so baffling that Omni-Aerith doesn't try to interact with Zack at all. I suppose there's an argument that it was done just to save something for Part 3, but it still feels kind of bad that there's zero verbal acknowledgement of Zack from Aerith. It's kind of hard for me to reconcile the Aerith we saw in Gongaga, and the Aerith we know who wrote all those letters to Zack, with the Aerith in Ch 14 that doesn't seem to acknowledge him at all, despite all of his furious efforts to try to get back to here. Maybe she just trusts him so much that she intuits he'll understand that she's the one who is moving him around (he does say "Aerith...?" when he is ported to the destroyed church). Or maybe there's some sort of Lifestream/multiversal memory rule where they simply aren't allowed to communicate or interact? I feel like that hasn't been established, but maybe I missed that.

Maybe I'm just misreading something here, but it still feels pretty bad to me The idea that dream date Aerith knows her fate- returning to the Lifestream in death--and also knows that Zack is out there somewhere in a Lifestream world--but goes on the dream date with Cloud anyway just reads weirdly to me but IDK.

 

[Hellenic]

I am not saying he didn't have a reaction. I know he did. What I'm saying is that S-E decided toput less focus on that moment compared to what it was given in the original game and that is interesting.

They chose to use the scene to focus on showcasing Clouds issues further basically instead. Probably because they figured it wouldn't carry as much emotional weight for a lot of people anymore if it just played out the same way. It did take away from the moment for me personally, but i do like the idea of them exploring Clouds fucked up mind more with it too.

 

[Hellenic]

To be fair, yes he did go catatonic.

But also, Aerith actually did die.

If Tifa never came out of Gongaga, we have no idea what Cloud would have done. We don’t actually get to spend all that much time with “Tifa might be dead” Cloud.

Yeah i guess that's fair. I still do imagine that he would've possibly even cried out there if he could. Nonetheless it's not exactly a fighting point that means much even if Cleriths think it does.

 

[Hellenic]

in the other worlds, to put it simply, no Tifa=no Cloud. The only way for him to be there is to be sent by our Aerith, the Cloud from that world is lost forever without Tifa.

I wonder what would the trigger for Aerith to wake up be on the other hand? Zack coming around wasn't enough for the time being at least.

 

[overheat28]

First, Hix, great post. Still, there is one thing about Rebirth that still bothers me and I think it relates to this idea and Omni-Aerith's (that's what I'mm calling the Aerith that has the WM memories) behavior in general...

Spoiler: Rebirth Chapter 14

I think this is narratively holds true for Rebirth!Aerith but isn't true for the Aerith that has the White Materia. I mean, Omni-Aerith has to know Zack is out there...somewhere, because I'm assuming she's the one who sends Zack to the destroyed church with Meteor in the sky to fight Sephiroth Reborn, as well as creating the portal that takes him from that destroyed church to the actual church in a world with a Stamp of unknown breed.

It's kind of impossible for Aerith to keep the same emotional story beats as the original because there's a version of Aerith that already has
experienced those specific beats. It's why I find it so baffling that Omni-Aerith doesn't try to interact with Zack at all. I suppose there's an argument that it was done just to save something for Part 3, but it still feels kind of bad that there's zero verbal acknowledgement of Zack from Aerith. It's kind of hard for me to reconcile the Aerith we saw in Gongaga, and the Aerith we know who wrote all those letters to Zack, with the Aerith in Ch 14 that doesn't seem to acknowledge him at all, despite all of his furious efforts to try to get back to here. Maybe she just trusts him so much that she intuits he'll understand that she's the one who is moving him around (he does say "Aerith...?" when he is ported to the destroyed church). Or maybe there's some sort of Lifestream/multiversal memory rule where they simply aren't allowed to communicate or interact? I feel like that hasn't been established, but maybe I missed that.

Maybe I'm just misreading something here, but it still feels pretty bad to me The idea that dream date Aerith knows her fate- returning to the Lifestream in death--and also knows that Zack is out there somewhere in a Lifestream world--but goes on the dream date with Cloud anyway just reads weirdly to me but IDK.

This. 100% this. This is why omni-Aerith disturbs me. Her behavior is inexplicable. Presumably, she's been orchestrating everything behind the scenes. How can she not know and why doesn't she care what's happening with Zack. Why the date with Cloud?

Maybe Rebirth Aerith is unique somehow and it was she who saved Zack at end of Remake (why her materia is empty). So omni-Aerith has concluded its not her place to interact with Zack besides keeping him alive.

 

[Pivi]

Okay, just to spice things up a little, I've caught up with the skywheel dates (Tifa's was the one I got first in my main playthrough), and now I have refined my standing on how I see Cloud's feelings towards the girls. I know some of you won't share my mindset, but that's the beauty of it.

I have watched the intimate dates, so my interpretation is based on those, and I've taken into account that every date is canon in the sense that it shows Cloud's feelings.

So, I really think that Cloud has romantic feelings for both Tifa and Aerith, but the nature of these feelings are very different. Cloud is in love with Tifa (even more as he thinks), that's very clear, but it's unresolved yet (since the date doesn't considered to be canon in the sense that it really happened). On the other hand, he likes Aerith. Not in a deep love sense, much more as some budding, starting feeling. Here comes the twist: Cloud do not want to like Aerith romantically, because he is in love with Tifa. It's like his mind dictates that he can't fall in love with Aerith, because he loves Tifa. That's why he always acts colder when Aerith makes moves on him. Not because he doesn't feel anything for her, but because he actually does, but do not want to. In reality, he do not want to betray his feelings for Tifa.

So there you have it. This won't change anything in the sense that Cloud and Tifa is a given. Nor these suggest that Cloud and Aerith should be a thing, because I think that even if Cloud started to like Aerith, it can't measure up to his feelings for Tifa, which will resurface in part 3.

EDIT: Just some typos, but my grammar sucks, my english is really rusty nowdays.

 

[Hellenic]

I mean it’s just pointless entirely. So now we’re creating affection systems outside of the game to prove things…

Gotta double down couse the games own wasn't "proof" enough for them i guess, which is yet another admittance to them knowing they lost.

 

[Hellenic]

I'm pretty sure that they're not all unaware. However, their priority is on Cloud loving Aerith, no matter what. I find myself wondering if that might be why some extreme Cleriths don't care that they headcanon Cloud as the worst liar, deadbeat, and cheater, as long as they can claim Cloud loves Aerith.

At this point they only want validation and nothing else really matters, which is just stupid.

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

This. 100% this. This is why omni-Aerith disturbs me. Her behavior is inexplicable. Presumably, she's been orchestrating everything behind the scenes. How can she not know and why doesn't she care what's happening with Zack. Why the date with Cloud?

Maybe Rebirth Aerith is unique somehow and it was she who saved Zack at end of Remake (why her materia is empty). So omni-Aerith has concluded its not her place to interact with Zack besides keeping him alive.

To be clear, I still think every other narrative indication, as well as developer statements and et. al, are leading to a pretty clean Zerith reunion, I just find this specific aspect and lack of communication on her part kind of strange.

So, I really think that Cloud has romantic feelings for both Tifa and Aerith, but the nature of these feelings are very different. Cloud is in love with Tifa (even more as he thinks), that's very clear, but it's unresolved yet (since the date doesn't considered to be canon in the sense that it really happened). On the other hand, he likes Aerith. Not in a deep love sense, much more as some budding, starting feeling. Here comes the twist: Cloud do not want to like Aerith romantically, because he is in love with Tifa. It's like his mind dictates that he can't fall in love with Aerith, because he loves Tifa. That's why he always acts colder when Aerith makes moves on him. Not because he doesn't feel anything for her, but because he actually does, but do not want to. In reality, he do not want to betray his feelings for Tifa.

I'm pretty similar, though I honestly consider to be more like "love" versus "attraction." He's attracted to Aerith (plus has some level of recollection of Zack's love for Aerith floating around in his head somewhere). But considering how long he's held onto his feelings for Tifa versus Aerith being someone he met 2 weeks ago, I think it delineates his feelings pretty clearly.

 

[overheat28]

To be clear, I still think every other narrative indication, as well as developer statements and et. al, are leading to a pretty clean Zerith reunion, I just find this specific aspect and lack of communication on her part kind of strange.

Well yes, I agree completely. Zerith is endgame. But it can be tainted as well. They were skirting the line in Rebirth.

OmniAerith is just baffling to me in general. She can bring in Cloud to her dream world, physically hand him the white materia to take back, go on a date, and then push him back into his world. But can't talk to Zack despite sending him across worlds on a whim. It's weird and off-putting.

I feel that entire sector 5 date was a hamfisted attempt to toss Clerith a bone and simultaneously give both Aerith and Cleriths closure on why it could never work (it obviously never worked because Cleriths never got the message). It did nothing to endear Aerith to me, I will fully admit. If she knew Zack was around...it only gets worse from there.

 

[nars305]

I’ve never really understood the discussion of who Cloud loves more or has stronger feelings for.

I just feel that they place so much emphasis on what Tifa is to Cloud. She quite literally makes or breaks his function as a human.

It’s hard for me to think those feelings can easily be swayed.

 

[Stiggie]

Okay, just to spice things up a little, I've caught up with the skywheel dates (Tifa's was the one I got first in my main playthrough), and now I have refined my standing on how I see Cloud's feelings towards the girls. I know some of you won't share my mindset, but that's the beauty of it.

I have watched the intimate dates, so my interpretation is based on those, and I've taken into account that every date is canon in the sense that it shows Cloud's feelings.

So, I really think that Cloud has romantic feelings for both Tifa and Aerith, but the nature of these feelings are very different. Cloud is in love with Tifa (even more as he thinks), that's very clear, but it's unresolved yet (since the date doesn't considered to be canon in the sense that it really happened). On the other hand, he likes Aerith. Not in a deep love sense, much more as some budding, starting feeling. Here comes the twist: Cloud do not want to like Aerith romantically, because he is in love with Tifa. It's like his mind dictates that he can't fall in love with Aerith, because he loves Tifa. That's why he always acts colder when Aerith makes moves on him. Not because he doesn't feel anything for her, but because he actually does, but do not want to. In reality, he do not want to betray his feelings for Tifa.

So there you have it. This won't change anything in the sense that Cloud and Tifa is a given. Nor these suggest that Cloud and Aerith should be a thing, because I think that even if Cloud started to like Aerith, it can't measure up to his feelings for Tifa, which will resurface in part 3.

EDIT: Just some typos, but my grammar sucks, my english is really rusty nowdays.

It's a fair interpretation I think. I personally ascribe to about half of it. I agree that Cloud doesn't want to fall in love with Aerith, but I also don't think his stand-offish stance is entirely forced to keep her at a distance despite himself. I do think he enjoys Aeriths company to some extent but I also think he is genuinely not happy with her advancements, yes half because he doesn't want to betray his feelings for Tifa, but also because his feelings for Tifa make him adversed to those advancements in general.

There is a subtle difference that I find it hard to vocalize or explain, I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't think he's consciously going "damn, I like her....no, don't engage, gotta be loyal to Tifa, gotta be loyal to Tifa". But I do think that since he wants to be loyal to Tifa he's in a default position where he's less receptive to falling in love with others than he otherwise might be.
The difference is, I think, is in what comes first, him being loyal to Tifa, or him developing feelings. I don't think his stand-offishness is in response to him developing feelings he doesn't want. I think the stand-offishness is a shield thrown up before any feelings even have a chance to get through, though some might go through regardless of course.

But I do think this falls right into the grey area that is ACTUALLY meant to be open to interpretation.
I visualize it similarly to when you control the Weapons in the gongaga scene. You have a broad lane within which you can kinda steer left and right......but you're still not in control of the end location, it's still going one direction in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Eerie]

I wonder what would the trigger for Aerith to wake up be on the other hand? Zack coming around wasn't enough for the time being at least.

I think the trigger was to use the black materia that's a key. Which is why she awakes right before Cloud arrives.

@overheat28 while I can see your point, I personally feel that the date in S5 was made to point out 2 things:

• that Cloud's feelings are not romantic because of the scenes that were to follow. In short yeah he reacts badly to Aerith's death, but it's not because he's in love with her, it's because she's a dear friend
• that Aerith's feelings towards Cloud aren't that romantic either, despite her own belief for this long time

In short the dream date to me is setting up Zerith in the next game (or at least part of the setup).

Which leads me to @Pivi: I don't feel Cloud's attracted that way to Aerith. In her date, I felt a lot of sadness and loneliness, which are two things Cloud feels too and well... I don't sense he's reacting out of romantic interest (denied or not), but rather because that touches him, since he was a lonely kid. He also thinks she still loves Zack and that it hurts her so when she's like "I want to meet you", he doesn't understand that line (not in a romantic way or something else, it's simply that when Aerith speaks like this he doesn't get it).

For me, I think, if I look at the story told and how Cloud concludes Zerith in ACC by putting his sword in the church, I feel that it has its own importance that he doesn't feel romantic feelings towards Aerith AND that he doesn't understand Aerith's own interest in him, because he would not want to taint Zack and Aerith that way. This is how I see it after Rebirth. His romantic feelings are so anchored with Tifa that the mere idea of falling in love with, or even being interested by another woman is simply foreign to him. But Cloud being a lonely kid also means that he cherishes all his friends, and Aerith's story touches him a lot since, I think, he feels lucky to be able to have Tifa by his side.

As for OmniAerith, I am not sure that she exists the way the fandom paints her. To me the one we see in the dream date is akin to COLW Aerith, more turned towards Cloud but she discovers that this may be a false assumption. I am not sure that it is her and not some meta plot of hers (Zack is not in the same universe, so I think there's some shenanigan with the multi-universe; that Aerith can only be awake in this particular universe but Zack isn't part of it, making her "lost" in some way and seeking him through Cloud). We see golden petals guide Zack, but the thing is.... Aerith never had control of these flowers, she merely follows them, just like Zack is doing. So I am not sure it's a meta/Omni Aerith trying to guide Zack there rather than the will of the Planet.

As for the fight against Sephiroth, it's not OmniAerith but definitely our Aerith who fights alongside Cloud. The fact that she holds his hand before disappearing claims that. Which makes me think that when I played, I thought this was her saying goodbye to Cloud, which made the whole scenes coming after even more bizarre to me like, why does she keep coming back to say goodbye? I had that odd feeling during the Tiny Bronco scene especially (because the one before was clearly Cloud hallucinating so I discarded it) but this scene was supposed to feel warm and the only reasoning I had for it to be the real Aerith was that no way SE would make Cloud hallucinate there? Although yeah, what she says is odd (being happy of him going after Sephiroth instead of telling him to take care of him? When she's exactly said that prior? We know Cloud doesn't really know Aerith uh...). But yes there are things in this scene I find odd, discarded until people noticed the credits (which I didn't even watched lmao) and yeah. Fishy things going on there.

 

[Pivi]

I'm pretty similar, though I honestly consider to be more like "love" versus "attraction." He's attracted to Aerith (plus has some level of recollection of Zack's love for Aerith floating around in his head somewhere). But considering how long he's held onto his feelings for Tifa versus Aerith being someone he met 2 weeks ago, I think it delineates his feelings pretty clearly.

Yes, I'm inclined to use "like" and "attraction" what Cloud feels for Aerith too, not full on romantic love. Deep love is reserved for Tifa.

It's a fair interpretation I think. I personally ascribe to about half of it. I agree that Cloud doesn't want to fall in love with Aerith, but I also don't think his stand-offish stance is entirely forced to keep her at a distance despite himself. I do think he enjoys Aeriths company to some extent but I also think he is genuinely not happy with her advancements, yes half because he doesn't want to betray his feelings for Tifa, but also because his feelings for Tifa make him not those advancements in general.

There is a subtle difference that I find it hard to vocalize or explain, I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't think he's consciously going "damn, I like her....no, don't engage, gotta be loyal to Tifa, gotta be loyal to Tifa". But I do think that since he wants to be loyal to Tifa he's in a default position where he's less receptive to falling in love with others than he otherwise might be.
The difference is, I think, is in what comes first, him being loyal to Tifa, or him developing feelings. I don't think his stand-offishness is in response to him developing feelings he doesn't want. I think the stand-offishness is a shield thrown up before any feelings even have a chance to get through, though some might go through regardless of course.

But I do think this falls right into the grey area that is ACTUALLY meant to be open to interpretation.
I visualize it similarly to when you control the Weapons in the gongaga scene. You have a broad lane within which you can kinda steer left and right......but you're still not in control of the end location, it's still going one direction in the grand scheme of things.

I agree with you here, and I do not meant Clouds feelings as he's consciously doing what he does. Yeah, I wrote that what his mind dictates, but it's more nuanced than that.

Aerith's skywheel date was really interesting though. I don't give in to the interlocking fingers = eternal love bs, but that wasn't just a simple friendly gesture in my eyes. Or do you think that Cloud just comforted Aerith there, because he saw her affections?

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

Hi everyone,
I only played rebirth so far because of my best friend's older brother and got curious about the lore and went looking for answers and saw what was happening on different social platforms and umm...I've never been more confused in my life. It's made me a bit hesitant to play the first part.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I think the trigger was to use the black materia that's a key. Which is why she awakes right before Cloud arrives.

@overheat28 while I can see your point, I personally feel that the date in S5 was made to point out 2 things:

• that Cloud's feelings are not romantic because of the scenes that were to follow. In short yeah he reacts badly to Aerith's death, but it's not because he's in love with her, it's because she's a dear friend
• that Aerith's feelings towards Cloud aren't that romantic either, despite her own belief for this long time

In short the dream date to me is setting up Zerith in the next game (or at least part of the setup).

Which leads me to @Pivi: I don't feel Cloud's attracted that way to Aerith. In her date, I felt a lot of sadness and loneliness, which are two things Cloud feels too and well... I don't sense he's reacting out of romantic interest (denied or not), but rather because that touches him, since he was a lonely kid. He also thinks she still loves Zack and that it hurts her so when she's like "I want to meet you", he doesn't understand that line (not in a romantic way or something else, it's simply that when Aerith speaks like this he doesn't get it).

For me, I think, if I look at the story told and how Cloud concludes Zerith in ACC by putting his sword in the church, I feel that it has its own importance that he doesn't feel romantic feelings towards Aerith AND that he doesn't understand Aerith's own interest in him, because he would not want to taint Zack and Aerith that way. This is how I see it after Rebirth. His romantic feelings are so anchored with Tifa that the mere idea of falling in love with, or even being interested by another woman is simply foreign to him. But Cloud being a lonely kid also means that he cherishes all his friends, and Aerith's story touches him a lot since, I think, he feels lucky to be able to have Tifa by his side.

As for OmniAerith, I am not sure that she exists the way the fandom paints her. To me the one we see in the dream date is akin to COLW Aerith, more turned towards Cloud but she discovers that this may be a false assumption. I am not sure that it is her and not some meta plot of hers (Zack is not in the same universe, so I think there's some shenanigan with the multi-universe; that Aerith can only be awake in this particular universe but Zack isn't part of it, making her "lost" in some way and seeking him through Cloud). We see golden petals guide Zack, but the thing is.... Aerith never had control of these flowers, she merely follows them, just like Zack is doing. So I am not sure it's a meta/Omni Aerith trying to guide Zack there rather than the will of the Planet.

As for the fight against Sephiroth, it's not OmniAerith but definitely our Aerith who fights alongside Cloud. The fact that she holds his hand before disappearing claims that. Which makes me think that when I played, I thought this was her saying goodbye to Cloud, which made the whole scenes coming after even more bizarre to me like, why does she keep coming back to say goodbye? I had that odd feeling during the Tiny Bronco scene especially (because the one before was clearly Cloud hallucinating so I discarded it) but this scene was supposed to feel warm and the only reasoning I had for it to be the real Aerith was that no way SE would make Cloud hallucinate there? Although yeah, what she says is odd (being happy of him going after Sephiroth instead of telling him to take care of him? When she's exactly said that prior? We know Cloud doesn't really know Aerith uh...). But yes there are things in this scene I find odd, discarded until people noticed the credits (which I didn't even watched lmao) and yeah. Fishy things going on there.

So the Aerith in the final battle being 'our' Aerith is part of why I think there's a splinter Aerith from the moment of death. I think during the events of the fight the wave-form hasn't collapsed and the two universes haven't fully separated yet, and Cloud is experiencing both. I think the her in the battle is the Aerith we see wake up, and the Aerith we see after that is the ghost of the actual dead Aerith. I have no clue how long splinter Aerith's world can sustain itself, mind.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Hi everyone,
I only played rebirth so far because of my best friend's older brother and got curious about the lore and went looking for answers and saw what was happening on different social platforms and umm...I've never been more confused in my life. It's made me a bit hesitant to play the first part.

Hi. I would recommend if you're wanting to learn about Lore without being completely spoiled, to start with Crisis Core Reunion. It helps set up a lot of backstory and explains a lot of things the game might just throw at you. Otherwise feel free to ask questions.

Also what is going on now that the LTD thread is where newbies come for lore. I mean, welcome and shit, but it's like the world's topsy turvy.

 

[nars305]

Yeah i guess that's fair. I still do imagine that he would've possibly even cried out there if he could. Nonetheless it's not exactly a fighting point that means much even if Cleriths think it does.

Well I find the scene of the death and him crying interesting. In this moment his memory is messing up. If we think of the two timelines, people assume Aerith is saved in one, and dies in the other. So why do we have the OG speech scene and one where his is crying? It’s basically two outcomes of sadness in that moment. Until she wakes up. I thought the reason he is crying tears is him fighting Sephiroth’s point that he can’t cry because he’s a puppet.

I’m not saying he wouldn’t cry for Aerith, he cares deeply for her, and he couldn’t save her. I just found it interesting and maybe I’m missing something.

 

[Stiggie]

Hi everyone,
I only played rebirth so far because of my best friend's older brother and got curious about the lore and went looking for answers and saw what was happening on different social platforms and umm...I've never been more confused in my life. It's made me a bit hesitant to play the first part.

Hi. I would recommend if you're wanting to learn about Lore without being completely spoiled, to start with Crisis Core Reunion. It helps set up a lot of backstory and explains a lot of things the game might just throw at you. Otherwise feel free to ask questions.

Also what is going on now that the LTD thread is where newbies come for lore. I mean, welcome and shit, but it's like the world's topsy turvy.

Well, welcome. First of all, I would not start with Crisis Core reunion. And I'll explain why without going into spoilers.

It makes sense that you're confused about the lore, and to be honest, almost everyone is at the moment.
The original FFVII has a story that has a few clever mysteries and twists, but is ultimately pretty straight forward. By the end of it you will most likely understand what is going on, and if you want to know exactly what is going then it's pretty easy to explain.

However, the remake is a bit more complicated.
Since I don't know exactly what you've played from Rebirth or if you've played all of it I'll refrain from even spoiling that

First, it's important to know that there is a massive twist concerning what happened in the past in the original FFVII in regards to Cloud, Nibelheim, sephiroth, and all that. Final fantasy 7 Crisis Core is a prequel game that takes place around that time, and you actually play through those events. This means that if you've played Crisis Core you know pretty much exactly what the big twist of the original FFVII is. If that doesn't bother you then starting with Crisis Core isn't the worst idea, but personally I'd still advise to just play the original game first if you really want a clearer understanding of what the hell is going on.

For the remake project the developers have sort of assumed that the player has played the original FFVII, or at the very least has played crisis core, meaning that they are at least somewhat aware of the answers to some of the mysteries of the story.
This has then allowed them to throw more mysteries on top of that to keep it exciting (if they succeeded is another story but that was the intention). That means that even those of us who have a pretty extensive knowledge concerning FFVII can't explain everything to you that is happening in FFVII Rebirth, and telling you the things we DO know would probably count as a spoiler. It also means that for someone who hasn't played the OG, figuring out what is going on is thrice as difficult since you don't even know which weird thing is new, and what weird things are already explained by the original game.

For instance, all the weird multiple timeline/worlds stuff was never a part of the original game, BUT all the weird Sephiroth visions aren't necessarily the result of weird timeline stuff. So good luck figuring that out without knowing the OG.

If you have specific questions just ask or send a DM.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Well, welcome. First of all, I would not start with Crisis Core reunion. And I'll explain why without doing into spoilers.
(gonna edit the rest in)

Keep in mind my recommendation is based on the idea tof CandC having already played and finished Rebirth. The idea is going back from the en media res to "the start" and coming forward, assuming CandC doesn't want to play the PS1 game.

 

[Yoru]

So the Aerith in the final battle being 'our' Aerith is part of why I think there's a splinter Aerith from the moment of death. I think during the events of the fight the wave-form hasn't collapsed and the two universes haven't fully separated yet, and Cloud is experiencing both. I think the her in the battle is the Aerith we see wake up, and the Aerith we see after that is the ghost of the actual dead Aerith. I have no clue how long splinter Aerith's world can sustain itself, mind.

I'm not really buying this "splinter Aerith" thing. The splinter is supposed to be happening during the rainbow effect. But when we look closer, her blood is present during this "new reality", so Sephiroth did stab her. I really think people read too deep on all of it and it's just Cloud being delulu.

 

[null]

I’ve never really understood the discussion of who Cloud loves more or has stronger feelings for.

I just feel that they place so much emphasis on what Tifa is to Cloud. She quite literally makes or breaks his function as a human.

It’s hard for me to think those feelings can easily be swayed.

Well of course it’s because the story is so easily misunderstood by the uneducated masses. One may think kissing means they are in love, but that is not the way of the true Yamato nadeshiko. Thankfully we have Japansplainers coming out the woodwork to correct such gross misinterpretations.

 

[nars305]

I'm not really buying this "splinter Aerith" thing. The splinter is supposed to be happening during the rainbow effect. But when we look closer, her blood is present during this "new reality", so Sephiroth did stab her. I really think people read too deep on all of it and it's just Cloud being delulu.

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Didn’t Nomura say that basically what they wanted to show in this scene is denial in loss? If she didn’t die then what is Cloud in denial about…

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

The threads have always been useful as drama lightning rods.

I recall a few occasions where the drama capacitors overloaded and exploded drama over other threads like pink confetti, but on the overall im inclined to agree.

Yeah, it's rarely exactly in the middle between the two options.

No joke.

At the very least it'd be amazing as an Ever Crisis event.

I wonder if event designers ever trawl forums for ideas. There's gold in them thar' threads.

With muttered, panicked noises and have formed sentences like "Did they?" "Not my bed" "I mean you go girl, but..." while an actual conversation is happening in the foreground.

See? Gold.

Morbid curiosity kills the devilish cat and all that.

Story of my life.

It's hard to say if da Boyz are technically the most of the least sane, given they literally change local reality around them based on what they believe, but also, They LITERALLY change reality around themselves so....

We see a culture that's perfectly suited to this galaxy and write them off as brutishly insane for not answering questions an ork would never even think to ask.

I know I fucked up the phrasing on that but fuck it, you already know what I mean.

Well don't stress yourself trying to recall it.

I gave up when it started to hurt If it ever comes to me I'll let ya know. Until then, suffice to say that yes the Cetra Laser Rifle is there to see.

To her I was the villain of the piece. I was "brainwashing" people to Cloti.

Meh, hero antagonist at worst. Though this touches on an important facet of the old debate threads, namely that Cleriths like BB and Cali would treat it as a genuine epic struggle of good vs evil. If you reminded them it was just a debate about a fictional guy's love life they could go off hard.

As for taking her ball and going home, it happened several times. She got very mad that people were calling her out on her usual behaviors and bad logic.
In one of those times she exploded at me for trying to "stealth respond" to her because I didn't @ her or quote her from something like 30 pages prior as though it was a personal attack.

Oh yeah I think I was here for that, or went back and experienced it after the fact. Particularly shameless that was, since I know BB was a champ at editing her posts after folks had already responded.

You need the extra fancy one for those.

Shiny skull hat band and artistic tearing on the brim and crown are fancy right?

Doesn't have to be low level. A Archmage whose magic has become random and unpredictable is even more a danger than a novice, and so too must be the cause of that randomness.

Well now I wanna do an Archmage with dementia plot, wherein he doesn't even realize everyone turns against him because he's exclusively preparing provoking spells every day and was really trying to cast something useful. Though the Wild Magic surge issue probably fits the tone of that game better.

Cait might be more like one of Tony's AIs in the suit to Reeve's Tony than a different character, but that's just me.

It has always bothered me not knowing how much autonomy Cait Sith has. But yes, I'm throwing Stark in. Reeve is a much more sober Tony, Cait gets movie!Friday for accent based reasons, the Moogle is the armor itself.

Aerith is Jean Grey to Zack's Scott Summers. At least the Jeans that are allowed to be the sassy fiery redhead.

Ah yes, you'd said. Forgive me, Jean is not allowed to be sassy/firey much since the incident(s) and all.

Yuffie feels like a Wolverine teen girl sidekick on her way to a solo series. But which one? Kitty? Jubilee? Too many options?

I wonder if it's a later onset of something like schizophrenia that changed it from kayfabe to "No this REAL Y'all!"

It wouldn't surprise me at this point. On the other hand folks have actually sent money to "Nigerian princes" so maybe he just thought peeps were gullible.

Maybe if we stopped putting those heads in jars. You ever think of that?

Well maybe if the jarred heads would stay on their high shelves, huh?

-Bows-

He'll be here all week folks.

For good and for ill.

I think you're the only guy I know who would acknowledge the potential good to be had there without a fight, aside from myself. Some things should be hated folks, so long as we're using that hate to make them stop.

Vegas is good fun, though I'm fairly curious about some of the new DLC sized mods for FO4 like London and Miami.

London looked pretty boss, NGL.

I believed he had a kid because why not? I did not believe the kid did the drawings. I believed he might have been a PMC because why not? The more that the stories left his LPs and also got more elaborate and details was when I started going "Wait... is he saying this is actually happening to him? Oh....."

Yeah, until you mentioned this mess I just stuck to the LPs and never went looking for anything else he'd posted. Which makes it come straight out of left field cause there is no sign of this crazy in any LP I ever read.

So anyways, about the new Fallout TV series....
Actually, I'd love to see a new season of that where Kyle returns as the mayor but not quite out of the Fallout mindset. It'd be very in character.

I'm interested in the Fallout tv series, but at the same time... Can we just get a big budget version of Nuka Break?

I vaguely recall this, and and that I laughed at it with merry disdain.

The disdainful laughter was more memorable than the cause.

It's called begging the question and is also sometimes affirming the consequent.

Confirmation bias is a helluva drug. A helluva gateway drug, no less.

Adding onto this, Aerith is a great example of logically knowing she has to move one but emotionally not being ready to do it, for many of the reasons you outlined above.

On this note I think we should stress that Aerith is a good example for this. Her inability to move on isn't viewed as unhealthy, or something that has to change. No one's pushing her to get over it already, it's been five years. Had she lived, Aerith would move on when she's actually ready. There's nothing wrong with staying loyal that long in and of itself.

I mean, what were they expecting? Stealth action sequences where she escaped the Turks?

Training sequence of her learning to bop bitches with a stick?

I think we also see her in the dream date because that's confirmed not to be Beagleverse Aerith.

I want Xoloitzcuintleverse Aerith to be a thing. Someone make that happen.

And that's where the special pleading comes in.

Special pleading for mercy will yield none.

If Tifa never came out of Gongaga, we have no idea what Cloud would have done.