SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[nars305]

Considering the fact that everywhere I have tried to get information from has always turned into an argument about who Cloud romantically loves (I had no idea this was thing btw) I figured it comes with the territory.

Thanks for the warm welcome by the way.

I still wish I could go back to just a month or so ago to when I had no idea about the LTD. Now look at me, pure brain rot.

I blame it all on Gongaga.

 

[Sacky]

Well yes, I agree completely. Zerith is endgame. But it can be tainted as well. They were skirting the line in Rebirth.

OmniAerith is just baffling to me in general. She can bring in Cloud to her dream world, physically hand him the white materia to take back, go on a date, and then push him back into his world. But can't talk to Zack despite sending him across worlds on a whim. It's weird and off-putting.

I feel that entire sector 5 date was a hamfisted attempt to toss Clerith a bone and simultaneously give both Aerith and Cleriths closure on why it could never work (it obviously never worked because Cleriths never got the message). It did nothing to endear Aerith to me, I will fully admit. If she knew Zack was around...it only gets worse from there.

It's because the dialogue for the actual confession non confession is so confusing on what Aerith is actually trying to say is it I like you but I don't know what kind of like? Or is it I like you and want you to know I'm saying it in a romantic way? Either way Cloud says your being weird and that's it? I also can't see Rebirth Aerith saying this or acting this way after what we've played in the main story and her obvious knowledge of Tifa and Cloud considering she speaks about Tifa in almost every situation. I really don't get what the Devs were going for here knowing that it's not even the same Aerith we have been playing with makes me not care as much

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

As for OmniAerith, I am not sure that she exists the way the fandom paints her. To me the one we see in the dream date is akin to COLW Aerith, more turned towards Cloud but she discovers that this may be a false assumption. I am not sure that it is her and not some meta plot of hers (Zack is not in the same universe, so I think there's some shenanigan with the multi-universe; that Aerith can only be awake in this particular universe but Zack isn't part of it, making her "lost" in some way and seeking him through Cloud). We see golden petals guide Zack, but the thing is.... Aerith never had control of these flowers, she merely follows them, just like Zack is doing. So I am not sure it's a meta/Omni Aerith trying to guide Zack there rather than the will of the Planet.

When I say Omni!Aerith, what I mean is "an Aerith who has the full White Materia, which contains her memories, or knowledge, of the events that transpired in the original game and potentially ACC, as well as confers upon her some degree of Lifestream manipulation/Cetra powers/whatever." This is the Aerith that is present in all of Remake (until the very very end), the one that alludes to futures events ("You can't fall in love with me"), and also has the ability to project herself to Cloud in Ch 14 despite being held captive by Shinra. I'm not really a believer in the multiple Aeriths/multiple copies of people existing from alternate worlds/timelines/Lifestream pockets/whatever theories. I believe that there's something to the idea that you can only be conscious in one "world" at a time--see Cloud getting knocked out in Ch 14 while the dream date is happening, Cloud and Aerith being unconscious in the Zack interludes, etc--but either way, it wouldn't change the fact that White-Materia-possessing Aerith has knowledge of the future--she knows that she was never able to meet "real" Cloud, she presumably knows Zack's real fate and how loyal/faithful he was to her, etc...even if she's somehow unable to communicate with Zack due to Lifestream rules or whatever, the fact that she goes on the dream date at all while knowing all of this is what strikes me as weird.

As for the fight against Sephiroth, it's not OmniAerith but definitely our Aerith who fights alongside Cloud. The fact that she holds his hand before disappearing claims that. Which makes me think that when I played, I thought this was her saying goodbye to Cloud, which made the whole scenes coming after even more bizarre to me like, why does she keep coming back to say goodbye? I had that odd feeling during the Tiny Bronco scene especially (because the one before was clearly Cloud hallucinating so I discarded it) but this scene was supposed to feel warm and the only reasoning I had for it to be the real Aerith was that no way SE would make Cloud hallucinate there? Although yeah, what she says is odd (being happy of him going after Sephiroth instead of telling him to take care of him? When she's exactly said that prior? We know Cloud doesn't really know Aerith uh...). But yes there are things in this scene I find odd, discarded until people noticed the credits (which I didn't even watched lmao) and yeah. Fishy things going on there.

Yeah, I do think that "our Aerith" is the one that is fighting with Cloud against Sephiroth at the end, I think there's really only "our Aerith," it's just whether or not she has her memories of the future or not. I would assume that in this pocket world or whatever, that she does, maybe because she gave the WM to Cloud and she's clearly in close proximity to it? Regardless, she's able to access whatever pocket that Cloud and Sephiroth are in...maybe just because she was in the Forgotten Capital?

So the Aerith in the final battle being 'our' Aerith is part of why I think there's a splinter Aerith from the moment of death. I think during the events of the fight the wave-form hasn't collapsed and the two universes haven't fully separated yet, and Cloud is experiencing both. I think the her in the battle is the Aerith we see wake up, and the Aerith we see after that is the ghost of the actual dead Aerith. I have no clue how long splinter Aerith's world can sustain itself, mind.

IDK if there's a splinter Aerith, but I guess if the idea is that all fragments converge eventually it's not that consequential?

Yeah pretty much.

But people are saying that while our Aerith is dead, another suvived elsewhere. So technically what Nomura is saying is not wrong. But I still think there is no other Aerith or new world created at this very moment. She just died and Cloud refuse to see it. I really think in the end the Re-trilogy will not be so covulated as we think right now. People are talking about Splinter Aerith with dying words and so on, and I really think it's too complicated for nothing.

She's dead and part of the lifestream. She will be our POV to understand what the LS really is.

I don't really think the theme of acceptance of loss/moving through denial is going to work if the denial stance was actually correct because Aerith was technically alive somewhere else and we'll get to pull that Aerith into Beagleverse or w/e. That really just transgressive to the themes we're working with here.

It's because the dialogue for the actual confession non confession is so confusing on what Aerith is actually trying to say is it I like you but I don't know what kind of like? Or is it I like you and want you to know I'm saying it in a romantic way? Either way Cloud says your being weird and that's it? I also can't see Rebirth Aerith saying this or acting this way after what we've played in the main story and her obvious knowledge of Tifa and Cloud considering she speaks about Tifa in almost every situation. I really don't get what the Devs were going for here knowing that it's not even the same Aerith we have been playing with makes me not care as much

Ultimately, yeah, I think the main crux of the issue for me is that dream date!Aerith acts, in a lot of ways, like an Aerith that doesn't know what the future holds for her (though in some ways she clearly is aware). Like the whole sequence almost makes more sense if she wasn't in a dream.

Though in regards to the confession, I think introducing any amount of doubt is sort of self-explanatory. Especially if you contrast what Aerith says here with what Tifa says in ToTP, Nomura is generally intentional with the way he draws parallels.

 

[Ryushikaze]

It's because the dialogue for the actual confession non confession is so confusing on what Aerith is actually trying to say is it I like you but I don't know what kind of like? Or is it I like you and want you to know I'm saying it in a romantic way? Either way Cloud says your being weird and that's it? I also can't see Rebirth Aerith saying this or acting this way after what we've played in the main story and her obvious knowledge of Tifa and Cloud considering she speaks about Tifa in almost every situation. I really don't get what the Devs were going for here knowing that it's not even the same Aerith we have been playing with makes me not care as much

I read it as realizing she likes but doesn't LIKE Cloud and that he's the same way. Though I think this might be OG Aerith talking during the date sequence, getting her closure before doing the good deed.

Considering the fact that everywhere I have tried to get information from has always turned into an argument about who Cloud romantically loves (I had no idea this was thing btw) I figured it comes with the territory.

Thanks for the warm welcome by the way.

At least we're already discussing things of the nature here so it's not a surprise, yeah, I getcha. Ask away here or in DMs. I'll do my best to loredump you in digestible chunks.

 

[Sacky]

Considering the fact that everywhere I have tried to get information from has always turned into an argument about who Cloud romantically loves (I had no idea this was thing btw) I figured it comes with the territory.

Thanks for the warm welcome by the way.

Yeah basically I describe the fandom like this you have a big city the main street is the game and the fans of the game story. This is the safe part of the city then you have the alleyways this is the dangerous part where people argue about ships and the canon actual events in the story- think stuff like the FF7 twitter community. This forum is sorta like the shops beside the alleyways we witness the stuff in the alley talking about it but don't get involved in it, we also discuss about the ships here but also the lore. The LTD is a love triangle debate basically the OG game came out 27 years ago and who Cloud loves was thought to be player choice though if we are being honest the game makes it clear who actually it is in the story but people straight up deny the story. The reason people may deny the story is because they prefer a character over another or they never finished the OG FF7 game. Since people are very dedicated to their ship for 27 years yes actually that long people have been in debates discussing mistranslation of Japanese words and information gleamed from books. Over time as more stuff got added to the lore it became in my opinion very clear Who Cloud loves it's actually important because of story reasons not just shipping reasons. Obviously when people have dedicated time to something that turns out to be wrong they get angered and refuse to accept it and instead argue about it. So they then start changing the story and spreading misinformation about characters downplaying character moments and basically changing the entire plot so their ship works. This confuses new players people try correcting them and then they start arguing and send random book quotes from Japanese books at each other. It's hard to talk about lore especially around characters because of the LTD with so many people saying the story is different and saying the other person is lying. It's best to form your own opinion then if you want to come back here listen and see if you agree with what people say. Or you might not care who Cloud loves in which case stay far away from the LTD XD for your own sanity. I've only known about the LTD for a few months now I think but it will make you question humanity and reading comprehension especially about a movie called advent children. Speaking of after playing Rebirth which character do you think Cloud likes romantically from just that game alone it's rare to have someone only play the one game XD

 

[Stiggie]

I still wish I could go back to just a month or so ago to when I had no idea about the LTD. Now look at me, pure brain rot.

I blame it all on Gongaga.

Sorry man, it happens, just be happy it happened to you now, hopefully three years before the final death throes, rather than 27 years ago as it was for some of us.

Considering the fact that everywhere I have tried to get information from has always turned into an argument about who Cloud romantically loves (I had no idea this was thing btw) I figured it comes with the territory.

Run away, run away now, do not get caught up in this discussion. Just make up your own mind and then never talk to anyone about it again XD
You will hear someone say something that you think is factually incorrect, or just so alien that it motivates you to put in your two cents and that's it, you're stuck here now questioning your sanity.

 

[abzy1200]

Though in regards to the confession, I think introducing any amount of doubt is sort of self-explanatory. Especially if you contrast what Aerith says here with what Tifa says in ToTP, Nomura is generally intentional with the way he draws parallels.

Didn't he also say specifically to experience ToTP ( and Crisis Core reunion) before Rebirth? If he did that also adds weight to it possibly being a parallel.

Also, can someone explain to me the specifics (or what you think) of the new timeline stuff? it still kind of confuses me. You can DM me or something since it's off topic. That would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[Eerie]

I still wish I could go back to just a month or so ago to when I had no idea about the LTD. Now look at me, pure brain rot.

I blame it all on Gongaga.

To be fair you've been had by one of the best scenes out there lol

 

[Yoru]

GUYS ! I think I've deciphered FF7R's new ending !! The whole whale thing was an eye-opener. After long hours of research and comparing information, I think I've got it all figured out. After our visit to Cosmo Canyon, we know how the cycle of life works. A person dies, returns to the LS and, after a random period, their energy gives life to a new person.

Clerith close your eyes. For the rest of you:

Once Sephiroth has been defeated, Aerith will have completed her mission and will dissolve in the LS. The post-credit scene will show Tifa giving birth. Cloud is holding the baby in his arms, when suddenly the notes of Aerith's theme ring out in our ears! Bravo Clerith, you've got your reunion wish !!!!

()

 

[Sacky]

GUYS ! I think I've deciphered FF7R's new ending !! The whole whale thing was an eye-opener. After long hours of research and comparing information, I think I've got it all figured out. After our visit to Cosmo Canyon, we know how the cycle of life works. A person dies, returns to the LS and, after a random period, their energy gives life to a new person.

Clerith close your eyes. For the rest of you:

Once Sephiroth has been defeated, Aerith will have completed her mission and will dissolve in the LS. The post-credit scene will show Tifa giving birth. Cloud is holding the baby in his arms, when suddenly the notes of Aerith's theme ring out in our ears! Bravo Clerith, you've got your reunion wish !!!!

()

This would be symbolic but wow I fear for some of the takes if this happened

 

[Stiggie]

GUYS ! I think I've deciphered FF7R's new ending !! The whole whale thing was an eye-opener. After long hours of research and comparing information, I think I've got it all figured out. After our visit to Cosmo Canyon, we know how the cycle of life works. A person dies, returns to the LS and, after a random period, their energy gives life to a new person.

Clerith close your eyes. For the rest of you:

Once Sephiroth has been defeated, Aerith will have completed her mission and will dissolve in the LS. The post-credit scene will show Tifa giving birth. Cloud is holding the baby in his arms, when suddenly the notes of Aerith's theme ring out in our ears! Bravo Clerith, you've got your reunion wish !!!!

()

And then a second baby is revealed, TWINS, ominous music starts playing, trumpets ring in the background. tadatadatada SEPHIROTH!!!!!

 

[nars305]

GUYS ! I think I've deciphered FF7R's new ending !! The whole whale thing was an eye-opener. After long hours of research and comparing information, I think I've got it all figured out. After our visit to Cosmo Canyon, we know how the cycle of life works. A person dies, returns to the LS and, after a random period, their energy gives life to a new person.

Clerith close your eyes. For the rest of you:

Once Sephiroth has been defeated, Aerith will have completed her mission and will dissolve in the LS. The post-credit scene will show Tifa giving birth. Cloud is holding the baby in his arms, when suddenly the notes of Aerith's theme ring out in our ears! Bravo Clerith, you've got your reunion wish !!!!

()

That would be an Usagi Drop level twist lmao

 

[Yoru]

And then a second baby is revealed, TWINS, ominous music starts playing, trumpets ring in the background. tadatadatada SEPHIROTH!!!!!

"To be continued in Final Fantasy VII : The First Draft"

 

[Sacky]

I read it as realizing she likes but doesn't LIKE Cloud and that he's the same way. Though I think this might be OG Aerith talking during the date sequence, getting her closure before doing the good deed.

I also read it this way and thought most people would aswell but a lot think it's just a straight up confession. Though one take that's so funny I can't not say it is that Aerith saying arigatu in Japanese is actually meaning I love you somehow

 

[Stiggie]

I also read it this way and thought most people would aswell but a lot think it's just a straight up confession. Though one take that's so funny I can't not say it is that Aerith saying arigatu in Japanese is actually meaning I love you somehow

You know what the biggest hint is that it's not a confession? The fact that it's so god damn depressing. The whole scene doesn't exactly scream "we just discovered we love each other". You'd expect that after 27 years a scene where Cloud and Aerith confirm they love each other would have some gravitas, some unleashed desire, maybe fireworks in the background.....oh wait

 

[Ryushikaze]

GUYS ! I think I've deciphered FF7R's new ending !! The whole whale thing was an eye-opener. After long hours of research and comparing information, I think I've got it all figured out. After our visit to Cosmo Canyon, we know how the cycle of life works. A person dies, returns to the LS and, after a random period, their energy gives life to a new person.

Clerith close your eyes. For the rest of you:

Once Sephiroth has been defeated, Aerith will have completed her mission and will dissolve in the LS. The post-credit scene will show Tifa giving birth. Cloud is holding the baby in his arms, when suddenly the notes of Aerith's theme ring out in our ears! Bravo Clerith, you've got your reunion wish !!!!

()

Legit I saw a doujin once where the plot was Ghost Zack and Aerith hovering around Cloud and Tifa and the finisher was Aerith telling Tfia - who could not hear this - that she planned on being reborn as Cloud and Tifa's daughter as soon as she could. The punchline was that Zack better hurry up and be reborn too because she wasn't gonna miss him the second time around, too.

That would be an Usagi Drop level twist lmao

Only not as cursed.

I also read it this way and thought most people would aswell but a lot think it's just a straight up confession. Though one take that's so funny I can't not say it is that Aerith saying arigatu in Japanese is actually meaning I love you somehow

Do they think she said Aishiteru? Because.... No. That's not how that works.

 

[nars305]

Sorry man, it happens, just be happy it happened to you now, hopefully three years before the final death throes, rather than 27 years ago as it was for some of us.

You are extremely correct.

However, I think after there were no games or anything for long periods of time I wouldn’t think about it anymore. Especially if it continued to be ambiguous I would have washed my hands of it.

With Remake and Rebirth it’s had this steady incline, and I’m excited for the climax. Like I’m hooked into an ongoing story that has an end. If that makes sense, hard to articulate.

 

[GamerSkull]

GUYS ! I think I've deciphered FF7R's new ending !! The whole whale thing was an eye-opener. After long hours of research and comparing information, I think I've got it all figured out. After our visit to Cosmo Canyon, we know how the cycle of life works. A person dies, returns to the LS and, after a random period, their energy gives life to a new person.

Clerith close your eyes. For the rest of you:

Once Sephiroth has been defeated, Aerith will have completed her mission and will dissolve in the LS. The post-credit scene will show Tifa giving birth. Cloud is holding the baby in his arms, when suddenly the notes of Aerith's theme ring out in our ears! Bravo Clerith, you've got your reunion wish !!!!

()

CA fans would burn their entire collection if that happened.

Also, imagine Tifa giving birth and they just name it Aerith after her. Another “burn the collection” moment.

 

[GamerSkull]

Legit I saw a doujin once where the plot was Ghost Zack and Aerith hovering around Cloud and Tifa and the finisher was Aerith telling Tfia - who could not hear this - that she planned on being reborn as Cloud and Tifa's daughter as soon as she could. The punchline was that Zack better hurry up and be reborn too because she wasn't gonna miss him the second time around, too.


Only not as cursed.


Do they think she said Aishiteru? Because.... No. That's not how that works.

Maybe it’s cuz of FFX? They localized “Thank you” to “I love you.”

 

[Eerie]

Legit I saw a doujin once where the plot was Ghost Zack and Aerith hovering around Cloud and Tifa and the finisher was Aerith telling Tfia - who could not hear this - that she planned on being reborn as Cloud and Tifa's daughter as soon as she could. The punchline was that Zack better hurry up and be reborn too because she wasn't gonna miss him the second time around, too.

Well I knew FFVII had its horror themes but I feel like this is cursed.

 

[GamerSkull]

Maybe Aerith will return as Red XIII’s cub. The other cub could be Sephy.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

@ChaosandConfusion: Oops did I miss a wild noob appearing? I hate passing up a chance to say Welcome an' shit

That's the thing. I think he did both stab and not stab her. She's is 100% dead. But we did also change fate and created a world where he didn't strike true. So we have in essence created a second un-stabbed Aerith being kept in the pocket of the white whispers. That's not our timeline though. In our timeline she's d-e-d dead.

To me she's straight up Shrodinger's Aerith until SE lets me observe her actual state.

But like how we have a dead Zack and delusional cloud and a live Zack and a comatose Cloud, the rainbow effects spawned at the moment of the sword clash. That's our splinter point.

Resist temptation to reference Blackface-Norris. Resist.

It's part of why we made the sub-forum, actually.

Better insulation and an isolation bunker on the capacitors, gotcha.

I doubt, but you never know.

Feels like it could get ugly even if they did.

Yuffie is just great for comic relief.

I love how she can shift comedic stylings for each party member you pair her with and never feel OOC for it.

How many lives you have left?

I'd be on my last one, but y'know, devil cat. I cashed in a few that used to be someone else's here and there.

It's almost a shame she doesn't learn the laser move from it.

Almost nothing, that's just a shame. Going back to our talk of twists, one of my favorites is the twist silly reference joke. Example, back when MTG was just Eldrazi the game and we got "We know, you can't even."

I suppose that thinking was why they thought anything was fair play so long as "the side of good" won.

So they're chaotic in approach while lawfully devoted to their ship. Is Pink Hell a chamber of the Underdark? Cause this sounds Drow-ish.

I remember she flounced at one point while I was asleep and I just said "Okay, no reason to ever answer those, then."

I think that actually happened more than once. Their "arguments" weren't the only thing they tended to repeat after all. Was it Tres who compared it to Spira's whole Spiral of Death? Sounds like him but it could've been any number of folks. Hell I thought it, but someone beat me to the post.

The fanciest.

I'm quoting you on that later. I will provide ni context. The people receiving said quotation will be all "who the fuck is Ryushikaze?" and I will laugh.

Alright, but we do still get a little cat robot and that robot gets moogle armor too at some point. Deal?

It'd be criminal not to take that deal

I mean that technically wasn't her but a cosmic entity believing itself to be her. And the other one was her clone.

Ah but I never claimed Jean perpetrated the incident, only that afterward she was but rarely allowed to be the firey redhead of old by the editors.

Jubilee, I'd say. Also it is a bit odd that they don't team up his sidekick squad more often. They've teamed up Jubilee and Laura, but not AFAIK Kitty with them?

I think the readership let Kitty move further from her time with Logan than most. I seem to recall her straight up being Headmistress of Xavier's School for a bit? Jubes by comparison still has Wolverine's sidekick vibes much later. Plus Laura is Wolverine so she's the most primed to team up with the others in general.

A thought, would Kurt work for Nanaki as well or better than Cannonball? Scary looking, covered in fur, comes off as wise and genuinely is but is also a big old child with a fanboy mentality. Scales walls, backflips midnight as an offensive technique... I could go on.

Also, Mr. Sinister for Hojo?

Could easily go either way, though did he ever try and get money from people from his sob stories? I may need to ask a friend whose discord server he shat up with his nonsense.

I'm not aware of him scamming cash from what I've seen, just attention.

You saying they ought to know their place?

Well you can't take a swing at the blurnz ball if you stand outside the stadium

And longer.

That's what she said.

Spite can rage can make people move mountains. Making the world better is a grand revenge.

True rage tears down empires, frees slaves, and emboldens us to outlive our enemies. It's not some evil thing from outside, it serves an important function in nature and society. It exists for a reason. It's why I could never fully get behind the Jedi order. Idunno if they ever got this but Obi-Wan didn't beat Maul (first time) until he got mad. Luke beat Vader by getting mad. The trick is knowing when you've accomplished what you can with your rage and stopping... which is admittedly hard to do.

It goes from 0 to Batshit crazy fast.

But how's it's mileage?

The show is quite good. Also, it's being held to being canon once the next game comes out so it's not just a throwaway big of fluff.

That could be good or I'll depending on how it goes. Looking at you 76, with your fully modern Deathclaws and Brotherhood chapters and other such shite. Also just fir being shite.

So often it leads to copium addiction. Sad times.

Friends don't let friends debate fallaciously

Yeah, the motivation is internal there. She wants to be over him, because it hurts, but she wants him back even more.

NGL, I loved this part of Aerith's character.

Garden management sim?

Burger Time type customer service mini-games, but with flowers!

In this universe, Zack tripped and fell and has a bump on his forehead. That's the only change.

I insist that he be out cold just long enough for some bored slum kids to paint his face in candy skull patterns. Then we watch everyone lose their minds over "what does this mean?!" Beyond that, agreed.

 

[Sacky]

Legit I saw a doujin once where the plot was Ghost Zack and Aerith hovering around Cloud and Tifa and the finisher was Aerith telling Tfia - who could not hear this - that she planned on being reborn as Cloud and Tifa's daughter as soon as she could. The punchline was that Zack better hurry up and be reborn too because she wasn't gonna miss him the second time around, too.


Only not as cursed.


Do they think she said Aishiteru? Because.... No. That's not how that works.

that is what they said actually XD

 

[Sacky]

Sorry man, it happens, just be happy it happened to you now, hopefully three years before the final death throes, rather than 27 years ago as it was for some of us.



Run away, run away now, do not get caught up in this discussion. Just make up your own mind and then never talk to anyone about it again XD
You will hear someone say something that you think is factually incorrect, or just so alien that it motivates you to put in your two cents and that's it, you're stuck here now questioning your sanity.

Run Run away and never return in truth, though it does all start with one message or one reply and then its over. You start seeing more things you know is obviously wrong then you start seeing more takes but its not about the plot its about the characters and its horrfically wrong and most of the time disgusting then you can't help to reply, Then the rest of your time is spent debating on which pixels love which pixels while being curious just how crazy the takes get, and then you learn the lore of the LTD and you yourself start getting involved because you want to see the scenes and how they will piss off the toxic ones. Then you eventually start becoming bitter and toxic while people tell you you are wrong when you know you are right. Worst part is this what both sides think XD

 

[Maidenofwar]

Maybe Aerith will return as Red XIII’s cub. The other cub could be Sephy.

Aaww, I like this idea, I've thought similar before. That would be adorable.