SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Doesn’t Maiden contradict the fact that it was Zack’s idea to sell flowers? And doesn’t it have a different first meeting for them too?

If so, it’s hard to really accept it as canon.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Doesn’t Maiden contradict the fact that it was Zack’s idea to sell flowers? And doesn’t it have a different first meeting for them too?

If so, it’s hard to really accept it as canon.

Nojima nearly retconned all of it with Crisis Core. So no. It's an official work (Square Enix paid for it) but it's not canon.

That's literally how it is categorized in one of the Ultimanias. It's not in the official Canon list.
 

imach0c0

Pro Adventurer
How do you all interpret NPTK?

I believe Nojima stated that its a song from Aerith's POV talking about all the people in her life that she loves. However, there are some people in the fandom that are convinced that NPTK is about Aerith to Cloud. Why is that? Does anyone see it that way?
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
How do you all interpret NPTK?

I believe Nojima stated that its a song from Aerith's POV talking about all the people in her life that she loves. However, there are some people in the fandom that are convinced that NPTK is about Aerith to Cloud. Why is that? Does anyone see it that way?
There was some discussion here about it a while back before the dev comments. Some people chose to see it as C/A, others as Aeriths feelings for both men, and others as Aeriths feelings for all her loved ones. Since the dev comments I think mostly everyone here has just accepted it's about what Nojima says it's about.
 

SilverSisu

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Zack bro
How do you all interpret NPTK?

I believe Nojima stated that its a song from Aerith's POV talking about all the people in her life that she loves. However, there are some people in the fandom that are convinced that NPTK is about Aerith to Cloud. Why is that? Does anyone see it that way?
NPTK is Aerith's song for everyone she loves and cherishes. Zack, Cloud, Tifa, Barret etc...

Uematsu himself stated this so this doesn't leave any room for interpretations.

It was Zack who promised Aerith that he was going to show her the sky and fill the slums with flowers. Cloud never made any promises.

And like the lyrics stated

"Till the day that we meet again
Where or when?
I wish I could say
But believe know that you'll find me
Promises to keep, we won't ever need"

I challenge anyone to prove me that this section isn't about Zack.

That section doesn't fit Cloud at all.
 
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abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
Nojima nearly retconned all of it with Crisis Core. So no. It's an official work (Square Enix paid for it) but it's not canon.

That's literally how it is categorized in one of the Ultimanias. It's not in the official Canon list.
Speaking of supposedly inaccurate "official" material, I was dealing with a particularly difficult Clerith that would not back down on the strategy guide written by Doug Walsh for Dirge of Cerberus that is published "officially" by Square Enix, which claims that Cloud and Tifa are longtime friends, but it also claims that Tifa opened an orphanage.

So I'm just wondering, is this "orphanage" she supposedly opened ever elaborated upon? Like ever? Is it ever brought up again? Is it even referenced on a social media account of theirs even once over the course of 18 years?


How do you all interpret NPTK?

I believe Nojima stated that its a song from Aerith's POV talking about all the people in her life that she loves. However, there are some people in the fandom that are convinced that NPTK is about Aerith to Cloud. Why is that?
English localisation of the song makes it sound more about Cloud than it actually is.

They also have nothing else to latch onto, they're scraping at crumbs.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
How do you all interpret NPTK?

I believe Nojima stated that its a song from Aerith's POV talking about all the people in her life that she loves. However, there are some people in the fandom that are convinced that NPTK is about Aerith to Cloud. Why is that? Does anyone see it that way?

From the moment the song is played all the same if you chose Tifa's date, it was never a song exclusively for Cloud from my point of view. It just doesn't work. Period.
 

imach0c0

Pro Adventurer
From a romantic context, I can see it kinda see it as A/C. However, these lines seem stronger for A/Z than to A/C. From A/C POV, it gives the impression its coming from a place of wishful thinking since her feelings seem to be unrequited and its something she hopes she can have. Whereas if its A/Z, it feels more natural as she is longing to be reunited with the one she loves.

take my hand
never let me go
so we can be together forevermore


There was some discussion here about it a while back before the dev comments. Some people chose to see it as C/A, others as Aeriths feelings for both men, and others as Aeriths feelings for all her loved ones. Since the dev comments I think mostly everyone here has just accepted it's about what Nojima says it's about.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Speaking of supposedly inaccurate "official" material, I was dealing with a particularly difficult Clerith that would not back down on the strategy guide written by Doug Walsh for Dirge of Cerberus that is published "officially" by Square Enix, which claims that Cloud and Tifa are longtime friends, but it also claims that Tifa opened an orphanage.

So I'm just wondering, is this "orphanage" she supposedly opened ever elaborated upon? Like ever? Is it ever brought up again? Is it even referenced on a social media account of theirs even once over the course of 18 years?



English localisation of the song makes it sound more about Cloud than it actually is.

They also have nothing else to latch onto, they're scraping at crumbs.
That feel when you need to use a strategy guide as “proof”. It’s funny how all of their “evidence” comes from ancillary material and nothing that actually occurs.

This is why people want LTD to end. Not for conclusive evidence but just so we don’t so much “stretching.”
 

imach0c0

Pro Adventurer
Speaking of supposedly inaccurate "official" material, I was dealing with a particularly difficult Clerith that would not back down on the strategy guide written by Doug Walsh for Dirge of Cerberus that is published "officially" by Square Enix, which claims that Cloud and Tifa are longtime friends, but it also claims that Tifa opened an orphanage.

So I'm just wondering, is this "orphanage" she supposedly opened ever elaborated upon? Like ever? Is it ever brought up again? Is it even referenced on a social media account of theirs even once over the course of 18 years?



English localisation of the song makes it sound more about Cloud than it actually is.

They also have nothing else to latch onto, they're scraping at crumbs.
In the JP lyrics, it mentions meeting on a street. As well as place and a corner. (Not sure if those 3 places are in relation to each other or separate locations). Also, I don't know if all the lyrics are meant to be taken literally. But if it is, who else did she meet on the street other than Cloud?
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
That feel when you need to use a strategy guide as “proof”. It’s funny how all of their “evidence” comes from ancillary material and nothing that actually occurs.

This is why people want LTD to end. Not for conclusive evidence but just so we don’t so much “stretching.”
I love Tifa, she's an incredible person, but you are lying to yourself if you think Tifa is running a bar, an orphanage, and is a sort secretary to Cloud's business, all while raising children of her own.

apparently Tifa has 48 hours in the day that no one else in ff7 has.


In the JP lyrics, it mentions meeting on a street. As well as place and a corner. (Not sure if those 3 places are in relation to each other or separate locations). Also, I don't know if all the lyrics are meant to be taken literally. But if it is, who else did she meet on the street other than Cloud?
I'm only going off a translation I saw from someone else, so maybe I could be wrong there, but she did meet Elmyra on cobblestone.
 

SilverSisu

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Zack bro
In the JP lyrics, it mentions meeting on a street. As well as place and a corner. (Not sure if those 3 places are in relation to each other or separate locations). Also, I don't know if all the lyrics are meant to be taken literally. But if it is, who else did she meet on the street other than Cloud?
Cloud never made any promises to Aerith unlike Zack.

It is true that there are bits for Cloud as well because this song is for everyone Aerith loves and cherishes
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
And like the lyrics stated

"Till the day that we meet again
Where or when?
I wish I could say
But believe know that you'll find me
Promises to keep, we won't ever need"

I challenge anyone to prove me that this section isn't about Zack.

That section doesn't fit Cloud at all.

The only possible interpretation that this is about Cloud would be;

Aerith became meta for like two hours, wrote the song, sang it, and then forgot why she wrote those lyrics.

Which we all know is bullshit.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Speaking of supposedly inaccurate "official" material, I was dealing with a particularly difficult Clerith that would not back down on the strategy guide written by Doug Walsh for Dirge of Cerberus that is published "officially" by Square Enix, which claims that Cloud and Tifa are longtime friends, but it also claims that Tifa opened an orphanage.

So I'm just wondering, is this "orphanage" she supposedly opened ever elaborated upon? Like ever? Is it ever brought up again? Is it even referenced on a social media account of theirs even once over the course of 18 years?

No. This comes from her "character profile" in the DOC guide. A very brief description of Vincent Valentine's friends. Because you know... it's his game, so the presentation of featuring characters isn't very developed.

Once again, an old document found exclusively on certain cult blogs to demonstrate a so-called truth.

The kind of document you'd find among other "proof" that Cloud hates Tifa and is just waiting to die so he can join Aerith. That his life with Tifa is a living hell.

An orphanage never heard of again (at least I've never seen anything like it). So much so that I'm wondering if it's not a translation error, because it was already an error in AC, where it was said that Tifa was looking after orphans in Edge, but it was actually Marlene and Denzel who are... orphans.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I have to imagine that if the devs follow through with their setups and we do get the payoffs we’re expecting, the meltdown is gonna be insane.

I’m actually scared tbh.
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
No. This comes from her "character profile" in the DOC guide. A very brief description of Vincent Valentine's friends. Because you know... it's his game, so the presentation of featuring characters isn't very developed.

Once again, an old document found exclusively on certain cult blogs to demonstrate a so-called truth.

The kind of document you'd find among other "proof" that Cloud hates Tifa and is just waiting to die so he can join Aerith. That his life with Tifa is a living hell.
Yup, exactly what I thought.

aaaaaaaaand... it's not in the japanese one.

Translated by the lovely people of Shinra Archaeology Department


View attachment 16089
I'm going to be stealing this, thanks. I think it will come in very handy.

But another slight issue with this, yet again are Cloud and Tifa reduced to "childhood friends" rolls eyes

Of course, I know that means jackshit, since Square Enix has no problem reducing a married couple, Lulu and Wakka, to the same label, but do Cleriths know that and am I going to be able to convince them? Probably not.
An orphanage never heard of again (at least I've never seen anything like it). So much so that I'm wondering if it's not a translation error, because it was already an error in AC, where it was said that Tifa was looking after orphans in Edge, but it was actually Marlene and Denzel who are... orphans.
This is what I thought, like yeah, she is looking after orphans, but she isn't running an orphanage lmao, they're her children.
I have to imagine that if the devs follow through with their setups and we do get the payoffs we’re expecting, the meltdown is gonna be insane.

I’m actually scared tbh.
This is always my answer when Cleriths say "If Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship, then why is Square Enix so evasive about it?"

It's because ye would have a meltdown, they already get threatened with the Yakuza by a certain somebody who isn't even a Clerith.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Scared of what?
I'm probably gonna be lmao that is if my attention is pulled elsewhere.
I expect things to just get ugly on Twitter and other forums. I still think the devs should follow through and not try to avoid it though as one big meltdown all at once is better than flame wars raging on for years.

By the way, have you played Crisis Core yet?
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
But another slight issue with this, yet again are Cloud and Tifa reduced to "childhood friends" rolls eyes

That's just their catchphrase... That's their basic synopsis. Nibelheim's childhood friends. Of course, it won't change Cult Clerith's mind. But that's all it is. A basic introduction to the characters.

Same thing as Cloud being presented as SOLDIER when we know he never was one...
 
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