SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryushikaze]

Isn't there also a quote out there that says something along the lines of "Tifa has trouble expressing her feelings for Cloud, but she is able to do so more easily now"?

I believe so, but I don't remember where off the top of my head.

Game actually couldn't be less Clerith if it tried.

Oh, I suppose it could be, with enough effort. Like Adding in an Aerith who is pining to return to Zack and actively shipping Cloud and TIfa. You know, like Maiden Aerith.

History repeats itself...

It's like we've got a man on the inside. A man with the initial KN.

Yeah, she's always existed first and foremost to pull on your heartstrings, it was a very, very early decision to have her die, wasn't it?

Specifically when The only player characters were Cloud, Barret, and the Cetra, yes. This would make Tifa as we know her the fourth created playable character.

It's a classic case of punching down instead of punching up. Ruining Tifa's reputation will somehow elevate Aerith.

The concept here is "Zero sum" wherein the idea of a gain for one side is an equal and direct loss for another.

Rebirth's box art is very intriguing to me. It might be the most obvious they've been with their intentions in a while.

Yeah, it's the key art for the game and it seems to be very much elevating Zack for his presence in the game until you realize it's also associating the heroines with their respective heroes.

"We all know that alternate box art was made in 5 minutes" - something I've had said to me.

Actually, Nomura himself gave importance to it, no? IIRC, he said somthing along the lines of "It represents the different worlds"

Yeah, it's an interesting way to look at things, though.

Even if it was made in 5 minutes- which if you assume the Hero art was created first and then the heroines were swapped in after wouldn't actually be too hard to do in about five minutes -that wouldn't diminish the very clear parallels it's trying to draw. There are multiple worlds, a hero and a heroine for both, and Sephiroth at the crosspoint between them.

Nomura designed basically the whole cast, no? Besides Zack that was Nojima, I think.

Zack was effectively a reuse of a previous MC design, so it's hard to say who "designed" him in that sense. Nomura was the character designer for the game, responsible for the look of all the characters. He's been open about how attached he was to the design that become Vincent, and his love of the basic aesthetic of Tifa is clear, given he returned to the well several times.

And this is something else I think of when people make ridiculous, hateful arguments. Like, why do these people think the devs are just going to insult characters to such a degree when said characters are basically their success story?

It's not like they want people thinking negatively of their protagonists, so why would you assume that's the intended interpretation? Like the people insisting that the CT kisses are a form of sexual assault. Those people are losing the plot entirely.

You might have been able to play dumb and say that the buster sword was just a sword they gave out to SOLDIERs at the time of the original, but after Rebirth, where we have the reporter say that the criminal they're looking for has the buster sword, and that we've seen multiple SOLDIERs in game (excluding Crisis Core), and none of them have a buster sword, it's gonna be a bit harder to do that.

No other SOLDIER enemy had a Buster sword in FF7 OG either.

No, that makes sense, thanks.

Welcome.

And it's not even what he said.

Of course it's not, but that's not going to stop them. It gave them what they thought was a weapon so they can exist on their motte, screaming everywhere that "Aerith's date happened and was canon", and in due time when it is thoroughly mocked and debunked, back they will go to "none of them are canon." It's a matter of time.

And it's irrelevant too, most people saw Tifa's date, so now the bar has been set. All the routes are meant to organically link up to the story in part 3, and just from that I can guarantee to everybody with my whole chest out that Aerith will not be getting a kiss in part 3, and will not feature in a romantic subplot between her and Cloud, for fear of characterising Cloud as a complete fucking dickhead to the majority of people who will be playing part 3.

She's going to reunite with Zack. The seeds for that are well sewn.

There are always things that writers could do a bit better but I think at this point if people are confused about ZA then it's their fault, lol.

Also, just saw the "anatami ai tai" discourse on twitter and I'm just. "Anatami" isn't even a word, lmao. At least make up something believable if you're going to lie.

It was also the entirely wrong "ai"
And that was from a person who claimed to live in japan and be fluent.

It's fucking Resha and the WacDonalds again.

 

[LNK]

I say it would be confusing because people have spend nearly 30 years thinking Aerith was in love with Cloud, and truth be told she was until it was retconned in the re;trilogy.

These people aren't the casual audience. Furthermore, nothing post ff7 in 97, implied Aerith was in love with Cloud. She was dead

 

[nars305]

Even the casual gamers 30 years ago most likely didn't think all that much about the romance in FF7. So I think the only people who would be truly confused about ZA kiss are the extreme CAs. I mean, the casual aka general audience usually takes the story at face value and the game is pretty plain about where it's leading. But that's just what I think.

I agree with this because…I was a casual. Maybe I still even am I don’t know, I’ve only been a fan of FF7 for 2 or 3 months now.

The game seemed pretty obvious on setting up CT and ZA from the very beginning. I couldn’t really understand how significant it was that Zack “reunited” with Aerith and reached Midgar (I didn’t know CC when I was playing Rebirth), even if she was not conscious. That’s the very start of the game and is a huge follow up for their relationship.

Then the next is Cloud and Tifa being at odds and making up. If it’s not Sephiroth making you aware of them being significant to each other, then it’s Aerith saying don’t take her for for granted, or poking fun that he’d go up to the water tower to have her wave at him.

It’s…so obvious. It really is just so obvious what they’ve set up.

 

[overheat28]

I’m just not sure how much time ZA will get is my fear. SE loves the drama of the pursuit but seems to struggle with the pay off imo

Cloud has so much screen time with Aerith that I wouldn’t blame someone for not being sold on ZA if all they get is being told they’re right for eachother vs showing me so I can come to that conclusion on my own.

It’s the Noctis and Luna problem. Every NPC and such keep insisting that they’re meant for eachother and Luna was sooooo excited to marry Noctis and so on… but I never get to FEEL that way myself.

I don’t even care about convincing whomever of which camp that Zerith is the way. I just want SE to shake this odd habit of showing two lovers separated by whatever circumstances and the pursuit feeling so passive on one side that I don’t believe you when you say they’re in love.

Zerith is the obvious end goal, I just don’t think they committed to it as hard as they did Cloud and Tifa for whatever reason. If it was because they wanted some more of the LT bait like in the original, then that’s a bad call imo when it would’ve served both better to have Aerith be a little more proactive outside of Gongaga

I share your concerns as well. I honestly don't know how they will go about showing ZA in part 3. Almost like they've left themselves too much to do.

They've been relying on Zack to carry the torch and that's why he's all about Aerith from the beginning of Rebirth. But Aerith is the question. All we really explicitly have is her statement and actions in Gongaga. Everything else has to be inferred from her actions or her motivations picked apart and most won't do that. Various soul-mate symbolic type scenes as well. They could be relying on Crisis Core to cover the believability gap but I'm not sure how many even played the re-release. Not many if reddit and Twitter is any indication.

I feel ZA won't be whiplash for anyone paying attention but it might for a large part of the fanbase. I mean a lot of people are still convinced Aerith was saved and they are setting up a grand reunion with her and Cloud. They stuck with the original story beats in Rebirth very closely for better or worse and they could have made some changes - like maybe Aerith could get the hint re Cloud earlier, or get some clue Zack was still out there. I felt they did a disservice to Aerith to have her focus so much on the date stuff with Cloud. Like here was a really good opportunity to make some changes, imo.

The whole Zack interlude intertwined with the dream date felt like they were finally beginning to push the ZA pieces into place. I really hope ZA is not "shafted" because they couldn't plan better. I'd take a novel, too to cover some gaps.

I recall one of the Yakuza games had something where a very important character was essentially given his own side story separate from the main story (which he was still in). You unlocked it at some point in the main game and it was up to the player to access it whenever they wanted from the main menu after unlocking. It didn't interrupt the flow of the main story but enhanced it with more context. They could do something like that with Zack/Aerith, although probably just wishful thinking.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I share your concerns as well. I honestly don't know how they will go about showing ZA in part 3. Almost like they've left themselves too much to do.

They've been relying on Zack to carry the torch and that's why he's all about Aerith from the beginning of Rebirth. But Aerith is the question. All we really explicitly have is her statement and actions in Gongaga. Everything else has to be inferred from her actions or her motivations picked apart and most won't do that. Various soul-mate symbolic type scenes as well. They could be relying on Crisis Core to cover the believability gap but I'm not sure how many even played the re-release. Not many if reddit and Twitter is any indication.

I feel ZA won't be whiplash for anyone paying attention but it might for a large part of the fanbase. I mean a lot of people are still convinced Aerith was saved and they are setting up a grand reunion with her and Cloud. They stuck with the original story beats in Rebirth very closely for better or worse and they could have made some changes - like maybe Aerith could get the hint re Cloud earlier, or get some clue Zack was still out there. I felt they did a disservice to Aerith to have her focus so much on the date stuff with Cloud. Like here was a really good opportunity to make some changes, imo.

The whole Zack interlude intertwined with the dream date felt like they were finally beginning to push the ZA pieces into place. I really hope ZA is not "shafted" because they couldn't plan better. I'd take a novel, too to cover some gaps.

I recall one of the Yakuza games had something where a very important character was essentially given his own side story separate from the main story (which he was still in). You unlocked it at some point in the main game and it was up to the player to access it whenever they wanted from the main menu after unlocking. It didn't interrupt the flow of the main story but enhanced it with more context. They could do something like that with Zack/Aerith, although probably just wishful thinking.

I do like the idea of finishing Part 3 and Unlocking a "Zack's tale" bonus story where you play as just him and Aerith filling in all the exposition, sort of like the bonus mode in FF2 Advance.
Which now that I mention it was also about a bunch of dead allies of the living heroes banding together in the afterlife to fight the final boss on a different level than the main party.
Extra bonus points if we can cheese Sephiroth with a toad spell from a fully maxed out materia.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Way I see it is they will have to bite the bullet concerning a final resolution to Aerith's feelings regardless if there will be a kiss or not. There is no point in placing so much emphasis on the same if they weren't - Zack was told explicitly she "likes" Cloud. We know she doesn't know what kind of "like". There is now tension to be resolved between them. So there has to be a resolution to this one way or another for a satisfying ending for ZA.

I can imagine ZA meeting again overwhelming all else that they don't really need to resolve that? Maybe? Especially since that "she likes Cloud now (because you weren't there)" came from a four-year-old and not Aerith herself so I'm not sure how seriously they need to treat that? If that makes sense, lol.

Cloud has so much screen time with Aerith that I wouldn’t blame someone for not being sold on ZA if all they get is being told they’re right for eachother vs showing me so I can come to that conclusion on my own.

I have my fingers crossed for mutual ZA scenes in Part 3, lol. But I do imagine that the development of their relationship is going to be different from CT simply because they were already an established couple. They were just separated by unfortunate circumstances such as untimely death, lol. Like, ZA were already a couple who were separated whereas CT are on their way to becoming a couple. So the development and trajectory are going to be different.

Now all they just need to show is that Zack isn't anybody's second choice, lol.

It was also the entirely wrong "ai"
And that was from a person who claimed to live in japan and be fluent.

Oh, right. I didn't even think about the "ai" because I was so distracted by the "anatami", lmao. Wouldn't that have made "ai tai" into "I want to love you" if I remember my Japanese lessons right? So even that "now I love you" nonsense would've been totally wrong, lol. Like, by the time you need to lie about your Japanese proficiency, shouldn't you already get this nagging feeling that something isn't right, lol? (General you, just in case.)

The game seemed pretty obvious on setting up CT and ZA from the very beginning. I couldn’t really understand how significant it was that Zack “reunited” with Aerith and reached Midgar (I didn’t know CC when I was playing Rebirth), even if she was not conscious. That’s the very start of the game and is a huge follow up for their relationship.

I mean, even Aerith mentioning the first guy I ever loved who turns up at the end, victoriously surviving death and fate (seemingly), is already a big flag on how that plotline is going to end, lol.

I do like the idea of finishing Part 3 and Unlocking a "Zack's tale" bonus story where you play as just him and Aerith filling in all the exposition, sort of like the bonus mode in FF2 Advance.
Which now that I mention it was also about a bunch of dead allies of the living heroes banding together in the afterlife to fight the final boss on a different level than the main party.

Yeah, I've been wondering if it's going to end up something like that. Could be cool.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I have my fingers crossed for mutual ZA scenes in Part 3, lol. But I do imagine that the development of their relationship is going to be different from CT simply because they were already an established couple. They were just separated by unfortunate circumstances such as untimely death, lol. Like, ZA were already a couple who were separated whereas CT are on their way to becoming a couple. So the development and trajectory are going to be different.

Now all they just need to show is that Zack isn't anybody's second choice, lol.

I mean, even Aerith mentioning the first guy I ever loved who turns up at the end, victoriously surviving death and fate (seemingly), is already a big flag on how that plotline is going to end, lol.

Considering how many people either overtly or subtly operate under the impression that Tifa is Cloud’s second choice ( despite all the narrative evidence and logic dictating that to be ridiculous ), I’m not hopeful that people will understand that “it was Zack all along”

I’m also not sure how I feel about CC being almost required to fully experience Zack and Aerith’s romantic subplot IF part 3 doesn’t put in the time ( I have no doubt about the effort ) to sell them as the true choice for eachother.

Cloud and Tifa are locked in, and very well built up imo ( of course I’m assuming they stick the landing for part 3 ), and they had the awareness to add more build up from the beginning… but I somewhat think they may have staggered with ZA

All that to say part 3 has one helluva needle to thread for me to feel fulfilled on all fronts.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Considering how many people either overtly or subtly operate under the impression that Tifa is Cloud’s second choice ( despite all the narrative evidence and logic dictating that to be ridiculous ), I’m not hopeful that people will understand that “it was Zack all along”

I’m also not sure how I feel about CC being almost required to fully experience Zack and Aerith’s romantic subplot IF part 3 doesn’t put in the time ( I have no doubt about the effort ) to sell them as the true choice for eachother.

Cloud and Tifa are locked in, and very well built up imo ( of course I’m assuming they stick the landing for part 3 ), and they had the awareness to add more build up from the beginning… but I somewhat think they may have staggered with ZA

All that to say part 3 has one helluva needle to thread for me to feel fulfilled on all fronts.

They can probably stick the ZA dismount in a manner of three seconds. Eyes meet, rush over, powerful hug and a kiss. Break kiss. "I missed you." said in unison. Jump to other scene.

 

[pxl_pushr]

They can probably stick the ZA dismount in a manner of three seconds. Eyes meet, rush over, powerful hug and a kiss. Break kiss. "I missed you." said in unison. Jump to other scene.

If they don’t lace fingers, then it’s not true love…

Let’s be honest though, I’m a simple man. A hug and a kiss and I’m grinning until it hurts.

 

[Yoru]

If they don’t lace fingers, then it’s not true love…

They're 100% capable of giving it to Cloti just to shut down the stupid takes. They already done it with the high five.

 

[nars305]

I honestly feel like Aerith and Zack have enough development because of what Zack’s side shows. He rescued Aerith and helps to take care of her while she is not conscious. Then come to find in Gongaga she can’t help but to follow his parents and says she has no reason not to like him. She can’t do much on her end but try to move on, but by the end it seems like she can’t. Aerith knows what like and liking are, she says Zack is her first love. She has the longing and so does Zack.

Their development was in Crisis Core, it is all about them reuniting.

 

[Ryushikaze]

They're 100% capable of giving it to Cloti just to shut down the stupid takes. They already done it with the high five.

I still want to know where the idea of interlaced fingers being the most intimate thinga couple can do came from. Both who started spreading it in the fandom and where they based it from.

To be clear, I am not saying it's not a thing. It is something that can be a sign of affection in Japan, but it's like... comically basic baby steps.

 

[Xannis]

I think casuals will get it just fine depending on one thing. It all comes down to Aerith's reaction when she "sees" Zack for the first time. We already know how Zack feels both through his interludes and Cloud's recollection in Nibelheim. Aerith being a little circumspect about it I think is understandable given that she think he's dead/gone and the only person she could really possibly have a conversation about it with is Tifa.

Anyway, I think this one is pretty easy provided they just get Aerith's reaction correct.

 

[nars305]

I still want to know where the idea of interlaced fingers being the most intimate thinga couple can do came from. Both who started spreading it in the fandom and where they based it from.

Well I do find it interesting that if you try to google either the interlocked handhold or “koibito tsunagi” by itself with no reference to FF7, it just pops up a lot of CA posts/threads for me lol.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Well I do find it interesting that if you try to google either the interlocked handhold or “koibito tsunagi” by itself with no reference to FF7, it just pops up a lot of CA posts/threads for me lol.

As I edited above, it's not that it's not a thing, but it's so ultra basic it's comical. There's a romance comedy called "Love after World Domination." and it's about a Power Ranger parody falling in love with one of the evil team's generals and them both being complete clueless dorks about love.
The very first joke is about them trying to hold hands, having to pretend to be fighting when the fight zones close to where they were 'fighting' (hiding to try and have a first date), and then celebrating they got to do an "advanced" hand holding like the Lover's grip as a result.

Naturally, the kiss comes much later in the narrative.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I still want to know where the idea of interlaced fingers being the most intimate thinga couple can do came from. Both who started spreading it in the fandom and where they based it from.

To be clear, I am not saying it's not a thing. It is something that can be a sign of affection in Japan, but it's like... comically basic baby steps.

Anime/manga brainrot. I’m a fan of the stuff, but I also have the maturity to acknowledge it gives me the most surface level of surface level of insight into Japanese culture.

I always took it as a joke for just how slooooow romance can progress in manga, but some people may take it beyond meme territory, is my suspicion.

As for who started it… I’d check with the likely suspects on Twitter first lol

 

[Yoru]

I still want to know where the idea of interlaced fingers being the most intimate thinga couple can do came from. Both who started spreading it in the fandom and where they based it from.

To be clear, I am not saying it's not a thing. It is something that can be a sign of affection in Japan, but it's like... comically basic baby steps.

I think it's just an anime trope + not a "simple" way to take a hand.

So if it's not the usual way of doing it... maybe it's SPECIAL? Maybe we can say it's LOVE?!?

I don't think they thought any further than that.

 

[imach0c0]

Regarding the ZA reunion --

Prior to Rebirth's release, Crisis Core was remastered. AC was released in NA and JP theatres for a limited time. Devs encouraged players to play CC and watch AC. This is relevant to Zack and Aerith because CC gives context into the ZA relationship and AC shows that ZA are reunited and together in the LS. Also, Zack was on the box art for Rebirth and devs have mentioned his significance in the remake trilogy. To me, all this indicates that Zack will play an important role in Part 3. Seeing how part of Zack's character arc is his relationship with Aerith, I imagine that will have a dedicated story beat as conflicts have been setup that need to be resolved. (ie. Aerith's "conflicted" feelings)

Having said that, I assume the majority of the player base does not have this context regarding ZA and will only view what is presented to them from the Remake trilogy. In Remake, ZA is setup when Aerith sadly mentions her first love to Cloud (though it may not be obvious to who she is talking about). In Rebirth, we get confirmation that Zack is her first love and its implied that Aerith may still have feelings for him (ie. Gongaga). We also get hints that she is not over Zack from the GS Aerith date and her "conflicted" feelings in the dream date. (Though one can argue it requires the players to read between the lines to fully understand the subtext). From Zack's end, its not only clear that he cares for Aerith (as most of his motivation is trying to save her, and Cloud) but he is still in love with her (based on his body language and interactions with her). There is also a lot of visual storytelling that depicts the love between ZA but I'd argue the average person will not catch onto that. And then we get Zack made aware of Aerith's feelings for Cloud and him seemingly bothered by it (though he is selfless about it). With Aerith, she doesn't realize her "suki" for Cloud.

Although one can argue that the player was not given enough information to understand the nuance and depth the ZA relationship, I think Part 3 serves as the space to address and explore it due to the setups from Part 1 and 2. Seeing how the truth about Zack's fate is yet to be revealed, I can see this plot point being interwoven into the ZA storyline.

However, since its the finale, Part 3 needs to make it clear that Zack and Aerith are the "irreplaceable existences to each other" (CC ultimania quote) I reference this quote because the ZA story is not simply about 2 individuals that are separated from each other and hoping to reunite. Its a tragic love story about a pure and beautiful love that is eternal in life and death. Zack is not someone that Aerith just settles for. HE was her one and only true love. Aerith wrote him 89 letters. She waited for 4 years. She tried to move on, but I argue she continued to wait because she still wears the bow (Zack's first gift to Aerith) and wears pink (Zack's suggestion). From Zack, Aerith needs the closure of her 88 unread letters (Zack got one but Aerith doesn't know) and why he never came back. Despite that, Aerith needs to know that he risked his life to return to her. That she was his last thoughts before his death. From Aerith, I'd argue that Zack (and the player) needs to be made aware of the significance of why Aerith continued to wear the bow and pink clothes. We see Zack tie the bow around his hand, however, a new player may just think that's a sweet gesture without realizing the subtext because Zack bought it for her and its the only physical memento she has of him and vice versa. Most of all, the player (and Zack) needs to know Aerith's "suki" and what that ultimately means regarding ZA.

Since the ZA story has a lot of nuance and does not get a lot of screen time to develop in the Remake Trilogy, every little detail matters in order to understand the context of the bigger picture. I argue having the player understand the origin and what the pink bow represents is one of them. Therefore, if most of the above is not addressed and/or resolved, I don't think a reunion between ZA would hold much weight narratively.

A kiss or hug is not necessary to show mutual romance between ZA, however seeing as how:

-CC - Aerith embraced Zack
-CC - ZA have a history of being openly affectionate with each other (ie. playful flirting)
-Remake Trilogy - Aerith has been shown to be quite forward with physical contact (ie. grabbing Cloud's arm)
-Rebirth - Aerith goes on a 'date' with Cloud and holds his hand
-Rebirth - Zack caresses Aerith and holds her hand
-Remake Part 3 is the finale of a 25+ year FF7 project

I think a romantic scene with an embrace and a kiss would be an in-character and appropriate resolution in respect to their journey. It would serve to not only contrast the Cloud dream date (seeing how Aerith's heart wasn't in the right place) but differentiate the implications of Aerith's feelings between the two scenes. Also, it would be nice for Aerith to finally be able to have a "special moment" with the one her heart desires (Zack) after all the hardship she has experienced. It can also serve as a way to eliminate any "what if" scenarios or interpretations regarding ZA. As anything left vague would contradict the "irreplaceable existence to each other" and "one true love" narrative. Another way to reinforce this idea is I think Aerith should make the first move in her affection towards Zack. This not only gives her agency in her choice but it would give us certainty of her feelings since they are "unresolved."

Having said that, it seems that CT will get a kiss in part 3, so I don't know if it would be overkill if an FF game featured 2 kiss scenes.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I mean, them thinking the characters are real and there is some magical portal into the universe is extremely worrisome, but would entirely explain a lot of how these people think.

Yep and yep.

I mean, it's worse for idols and pop stars, but entertainment companies are often times insane. Sometimes careers get ended over the accusation of doing drugs, even when the accusations are proven spurious.

Yeah, it's even nuttier by American "of course they're on drugs they're famous!" sensibilities. There's gotta be a happy medium in there somewhere.

And they do it because winning is everything. If their ship wins, who cares what else the fallout is.

Well that's how you end up with the Enclave gunning for you.

And we do know he finds his mate in the end.

Indeed.

Almost like they were sending a message.

They might as well write the message on a hammer and send it via literal head pounding.

Very clever weasels.

Especially for rabid ones.

Exactly. Bad twists are badly foreshadowed, with very weak leadup. Good twists have strong but well hidden leadup.

Yep. Though a rare clever author may use a bad twist to hide the good twist.

It's a sort of sour grapes meets motte/ bailey? They really want X for their side, but side Y has it. So they try and diminish what side Y has so they can occupy it on the sly. Like negging someone else's girlfriend, but in the bizarre hope that he'll dump her and you can date her instead.

Ew, yeah you hit that nail on the head. It's a lot like that and it makes my skin crawl a bit.

Depending on the pokemon the neurotoxin might just be a boon.

True enough, a Steel-type would ignore it, some Poison-types would eat it. But unless it's a Galarian Weezing, which eats polluted air and excretes fresh, it's not gonna save the trainer

I suspect the neurotoxin trick only works in fairly well isolated areas of the otherwise very vast facility which is also falling apart. Had to wait for the right moment.

I suppose so. Although in that case you'd think more than just Ratman woulda survived.

A scientist is like a cat and aperture science is like a box, right?

Yeah, just St bigger. So, more neurotoxin.

The one at the bottom of that post, but you saw it already.

Yeah. Yeah that's unhinged.

If not, you can always Yar Har me matey.

When do we get internet Privateers what are licensed to pirate from other pirates?

Precise too, when it can be managed.

And as close to precise as can be when you cannot manage.

NC, so opposite coast.

I'm back in AR so fun. You made it above 100 degrees yet?

Both need to be taken into account, but a pattern of behavior is more distressing than a one off, basically.

Indeed.

And also the cylinder is misaligned because it's supposed to go with a different model.

Like a human trying to fire an ork's shoota.

Convincing others is how they self soothe, basically. It's a coping strategy.

So it's comparable to those social addicts who live to get others addicted too? You know the kind. Magic the Gathering players.

I mean 13 was too much and here we are 14 years later.

You're not wrong.

Can you kill what was never truly alive?

We can try.

And that was apparently 7 years ago.

Who knows how far they may have slipped by now.

Aerith herself is bait, even if you don't do her date. And I don't mean this in a bad way, but she's the bright happy peppy woman who everyone gets along with and who promises to come right back and then SHANK MURDER.

And now I'm picturing Sephiroth wearing a white Kirk mask.

When writers say this it's because the creators have such a complete picture of their creation in mind that it basically writes itself. It's not that the characters are distinct entities, but they are complete and complex creations of the mind.

This. I've had loads of characters like this in my day, so fully formed in my head that it really feels like they make their own decisions. It's especially prevalent in D&D characters.

 

[abzy1200]

These people aren't the casual audience. Furthermore, nothing post ff7 in 97, implied Aerith was in love with Cloud. She was dead

In the manual for the og it says something along the lines of "the love triangle ensuing between Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith" I think.

And there was also that advertisement that ran which lied and said Cloud and Aerith had a "love that could never be."

Oh, I suppose it could be, with enough effort. Like Adding in an Aerith who is pining to return to Zack and actively shipping Cloud and TIfa. You know, like Maiden Aerith.

...and Remake Aerith.

It's like we've got a man on the inside. A man with the initial KN.

In fairness, the Rebirth Ultimania did include Nojima saying that fans have been imagining a kiss between Cloud and Tifa for years now, he must at least take some notice.

Specifically when The only player characters were Cloud, Barret, and the Cetra, yes. This would make Tifa as we know her the fourth created playable character.

The gist of Tifa's design was made before the Aerith we know today, no? The design used for the Cetra was much closer to Tifa than Aerith.

The concept here is "Zero sum" wherein the idea of a gain for one side is an equal and direct loss for another.

After you're around long enough you'll inevitably realise that this logic is used for, more or less, every Clerith argument.

Yeah, it's the key art for the game and it seems to be very much elevating Zack for his presence in the game until you realize it's also associating the heroines with their respective heroes.

And you'll also find that it's associating each pairing with a theme of theirs - Cloud and Tifa have stars - Zack and Aerith have the blue fair sky.

Even if it was made in 5 minutes- which if you assume the Hero art was created first and then the heroines were swapped in after wouldn't actually be too hard to do in about five minutes -that wouldn't diminish the very clear parallels it's trying to draw. There are multiple worlds, a hero and a heroine for both, and Sephiroth at the crosspoint between them.

Yeah, whether it's actually an afterthought or not is irrelevant, it's still out there and being used very officially.

Zack was effectively a reuse of a previous MC design, so it's hard to say who "designed" him in that sense. Nomura was the character designer for the game, responsible for the look of all the characters. He's been open about how attached he was to the design that become Vincent, and his love of the basic aesthetic of Tifa is clear, given he returned to the well several times.

I always see people saying Nomura has a soft spot for Tifa, but I don't really know why?

It's not like they want people thinking negatively of their protagonists, so why would you assume that's the intended interpretation? Like the people insisting that the CT kisses are a form of sexual assault. Those people are losing the plot entirely.

The devs and VAs go on and on about how Cloud is anything but a bad person yet people still find a way!

No other SOLDIER enemy had a Buster sword in FF7 OG either.

I actually completely forgot there were other SOLDIERs in the original, they're only in Junon during disc 2 aren't they?

Of course it's not, but that's not going to stop them. It gave them what they thought was a weapon so they can exist on their motte, screaming everywhere that "Aerith's date happened and was canon", and in due time when it is thoroughly mocked and debunked, back they will go to "none of them are canon." It's a matter of time.

Plus, even if Aerith's date was the canon one...people still went for Tifa's. So the "canon" argument is ultimately useless since the bar has been set.

And just as a side note, I made a thread just there on twitter which gained much more traction than I ever thought I'd get on a post, and shockingly Cleriths have been...absent? I thought there'd be more, maybe it's just a calm before the storm situation? Very peculiar.

 

[pxl_pushr]

In the manual for the og it says something along the lines of "the love triangle ensuing between Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith" I think.

And there was also that advertisement that ran which lied and said Cloud and Aerith had a "love that could never be."

...and Remake Aerith.


In fairness, the Rebirth Ultimania did include Nojima saying that fans have been imagining a kiss between Cloud and Tifa for years now, he must at least take some notice.


The gist of Tifa's design was made before the Aerith we know today, no? The design used for the Cetra was much closer to Tifa than Aerith.


After you're around long enough you'll inevitably realise that this logic is used for, more or less, every Clerith argument.


And you'll also find that it's associating each pairing with a theme of theirs - Cloud and Tifa have stars - Zack and Aerith have the blue fair sky.


Yeah, whether it's actually an afterthought or not is irrelevant, it's still out there and being used very officially.


I always see people saying Nomura has a soft spot for Tifa, but I don't really know why?


The devs and VAs go on and on about how Cloud is anything but a bad person yet people still find a way!


I actually completely forgot there were other SOLDIERs in the original, they're only in Junon during disc 2 aren't they?


Plus, even if Aerith's date was the canon one...people still went for Tifa's. So the "canon" argument is ultimately useless since the bar has been set.

And just as a side note, I made a thread just there on twitter which gained much more traction than I ever thought I'd get on a post, and shockingly Cleriths have been...absent? I thought there'd be more, maybe it's just a calm before the storm situation? Very peculiar.

I think you can run into them rarely in the Shinra building as well? I’m trying to remember where you can steal a sword for Cloud during that segment.

As for your Twitter thread… May fortune be in your favor

 

[abzy1200]

As for your Twitter thread… May fortune be in your favor

Like I said, I've gotten barely any negative reactions so far, which makes me very nervous. Like, it makes me feel like something's not right.

I think you can run into them rarely in the Shinra building as well? I’m trying to remember where you can steal a sword for Cloud during that segment.

Really? That's a weapon I've missed 3 times now if so.

 

[imach0c0]

Like I said, I've gotten barely any negative reactions so far, which makes me very nervous. Like, it makes me feel like something's not right.

If I may ask, what was your thread about?

 

[abzy1200]

If I may ask, what was your thread about?

I made a thread: "Why Cloud and Tifa are absolutely in a relationship post Final Fantasy 7"

Which is why I'm surprised so little negativity has come from it so far.

You can read it here if you want. Looking back on it I could have included more, which is a shame, but I feel like I still got my point across nonetheless.

 

[Sacky]

I made a thread: "Why Cloud and Tifa are absolutely in a relationship post Final Fantasy 7"

Which is why I'm surprised so little negativity has come from it so far.

You can read it here if you want. Looking back on it I could have included more, which is a shame, but I feel like I still got my point across nonetheless.

They still going after shady for that church thread i shit you not XD or a zelink and cloti artist like
what are these people miserable seriously