SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I know the dates are all in a grey area when it comes to canon, but there's no denying that Cloud and Tifa plant one on each other's lips in theirs.
aeriths
Lv. 25 Adventurer
Sorry if this is too blunt, but I think it’s borderline ridiculous to even try to argue they kissed on the cheek. They look at each other’s lips and part them with a fly away camera after leaning in. Trying to zoom in on animation that was never meant to be zoomed in on and analyzed in such a way is disingenuous.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Well, yes and no. They models make contact, but they also go into each other's heads a bit, which is hidden by the usual angle the kiss is shown from. That's another way to cheat.. 3D animation is fucking fascinating and also hilarious when you peel back just a little bit.
Like Mirabelle's arms in certain scenes in Encanto, or the 3D squash and stretch in the guilty gear and dragon ball games to make stuff look a certain way without messing with focal lengths etc.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Yeah in the GC I am in someone explained what the mocaps have to do to animate a kiss, it’s really not easy xD
Maidenofwar
They/Them
No skin off my nose, I just thought it would have been cute even if the kiss had been interrupted, it would have still been a tender kiss, and romantic, considering the settings regardless. I also wanted to clarify for my part at least I genuinely thought that could happen "kiss interrupted by fireworks" since the video I watched it did seem like from the angle I saw their lips didn't meet/the angle before it zoomed away. Thanks for the recommendations, the playbacks, etc, helped.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I always expect it is really difficult to animate these kinds of scenes in any game so these kinds of camera tricks tend to be common.
Reaper3Delta
Pro Adventurer
Agreed 100% with this. If the devs wanted the kiss to be on the cheek, they could have done it the same way as Yuffie's. Crystal clear.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Yuffie's -also cheaty IIRC- cheek smooch is there to show that Cloud and Tifa is something more, something you discretion pan away from.
Like I said, if they wanted to show the scene as the kiss being interrupted, then the way they shot this scene is just about the worst possible way to do it. Everything about the scene leads you to believing their lips made contact.
If you gotta start zooming in every frame and checking if the character models are actually making contact, then you're already at Alex-Jones levels of reaching.
When it comes to things like this, you gotta be able to make your argument when playing the video at normal speeds and regular resolution. Especially since this is a video game. There ain't no zoom. For the intended audience, if you miss the scene, you gotta do another replay of the chapter. They gonna see 5 seconds of a 40-60hour game. The idea that the devs are trying to secretly pull a fast one on you here is rather absurd. And for this reason alone, I'm inclined to dismiss the idea the kiss was interrupted on the spot. This is not an equally valid alternative interpretation of the scene. This is a rabbit hole.
If you gotta start zooming in every frame and checking if the character models are actually making contact, then you're already at Alex-Jones levels of reaching.
When it comes to things like this, you gotta be able to make your argument when playing the video at normal speeds and regular resolution. Especially since this is a video game. There ain't no zoom. For the intended audience, if you miss the scene, you gotta do another replay of the chapter. They gonna see 5 seconds of a 40-60hour game. The idea that the devs are trying to secretly pull a fast one on you here is rather absurd. And for this reason alone, I'm inclined to dismiss the idea the kiss was interrupted on the spot. This is not an equally valid alternative interpretation of the scene. This is a rabbit hole.
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Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum. I've been lurking for about a week and got addicted to reading everyone's takes. I'm not necessarily a shipper, though I do appreciate the romance in FFVII (Currently I'm writing an Aerti fanfic, but that is neither here nor there). I am mostly interested in discussing the LTD and the public perception. I don't really have a dog in this fight, I just like watching as a spectator.
If it's appropriate, I'd like to ask two questions to spur discussion. I apologize if these sound repetitive:
Question 1 - If Remake part 3 does the Lifestream and Highwind scenes justice, what kind of backlash will there be from people not into the CT pairing? We've already seen the backlash in response to the CT kiss. If SE does the bare minimum of following the OG story, it seems like a large part of the fandom will just give up or leave. I don't think there will be any more room to cope. I'm curious what the devs have thought about this, how they're preparing for it, or if it's even necessary. The writers have already received death threats for the most minor takes. I wonder how they're handling this, if there's going to be 3/4 more years of this until part 3 is released. I do not envy Nojima, Nomura, and co.
I been lurking in a lot of CA spaces, and many seem utterly conviced that C and A will kiss in part 3 because "They're saving it for the next one" and because they think SE is going to balance out Tifa's kiss in some way. Others are banking on some kind of multiple ending scheme. It's a long shot they'll do multiple endings because that means more budget put towards content you needs multiple playthroughs to experience. And each individual ending would be less satisfying than one long, cohesive ending that ties everything together.
Question 2 - If C and A have some interaction in part 3, what do you think it will entail? Will there be somekind of backlash if it is ambiguously romantic? I can see C and A meeting after Aerith's "Hand of God" moment at the end of the OG. I'm thinking Cloud will feel guilty, Aerith will comfort him. There'll be some reference to the dream-date church scene or Remake resolution. Aerith will tell him to "live his life". There will definitely be some kind of intervention from Aerith in the final battle. The party will have to unlock Holy from the bowels of the planet.
I think it would be really cute if, before the Highwind scene, Aerith appears to Tifa as a ghost and they have a bonding moment. Aerith encourages Tifa to go after Cloud. I think it would be a hilarious end to their "rivalry". Just a thought.
If it's appropriate, I'd like to ask two questions to spur discussion. I apologize if these sound repetitive:
Question 1 - If Remake part 3 does the Lifestream and Highwind scenes justice, what kind of backlash will there be from people not into the CT pairing? We've already seen the backlash in response to the CT kiss. If SE does the bare minimum of following the OG story, it seems like a large part of the fandom will just give up or leave. I don't think there will be any more room to cope. I'm curious what the devs have thought about this, how they're preparing for it, or if it's even necessary. The writers have already received death threats for the most minor takes. I wonder how they're handling this, if there's going to be 3/4 more years of this until part 3 is released. I do not envy Nojima, Nomura, and co.
I been lurking in a lot of CA spaces, and many seem utterly conviced that C and A will kiss in part 3 because "They're saving it for the next one" and because they think SE is going to balance out Tifa's kiss in some way. Others are banking on some kind of multiple ending scheme. It's a long shot they'll do multiple endings because that means more budget put towards content you needs multiple playthroughs to experience. And each individual ending would be less satisfying than one long, cohesive ending that ties everything together.
Question 2 - If C and A have some interaction in part 3, what do you think it will entail? Will there be somekind of backlash if it is ambiguously romantic? I can see C and A meeting after Aerith's "Hand of God" moment at the end of the OG. I'm thinking Cloud will feel guilty, Aerith will comfort him. There'll be some reference to the dream-date church scene or Remake resolution. Aerith will tell him to "live his life". There will definitely be some kind of intervention from Aerith in the final battle. The party will have to unlock Holy from the bowels of the planet.
I think it would be really cute if, before the Highwind scene, Aerith appears to Tifa as a ghost and they have a bonding moment. Aerith encourages Tifa to go after Cloud. I think it would be a hilarious end to their "rivalry". Just a thought.
null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
Question 1 probably depends more on the Highwind scene. If there's choice involved, or a way to skip the scene, or any other kind of escape hatch, they'll just treat it like Tifa's Rebirth date. But we'll see. The NNs are close to retirement and give zero shits.
There will be no Aerith kiss (at least not from Cloud) and no multiple endings. These folks are on copium whippits. For all the talk about how Tifa is a losing heroine, they sure do want her scenes pretty badly.
Bitching about Aerith doing non-dead person things like interacting with Cloud is sort of my hobby, if that counts as backlash. They had plenty of time for ambiguous scenes when she was alive, no need to make Advent Children into an even bigger farce. But I'm cool with Maiden-like invisible support behind the scenes, or something tasteful like appearing to the children in the church.
There will be no Aerith kiss (at least not from Cloud) and no multiple endings. These folks are on copium whippits. For all the talk about how Tifa is a losing heroine, they sure do want her scenes pretty badly.
Bitching about Aerith doing non-dead person things like interacting with Cloud is sort of my hobby, if that counts as backlash. They had plenty of time for ambiguous scenes when she was alive, no need to make Advent Children into an even bigger farce. But I'm cool with Maiden-like invisible support behind the scenes, or something tasteful like appearing to the children in the church.
Ryeleigh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Rye
I imagine it'd be the same kind of backlash it's always been. I don't remember the takes off the top of my head but something something Cloud's a dude, Tifa is a slut, he was thinking of Aerith the entire time, he wants to die and go meet her, optional etc.
If by "a large part of the fandom" you mean CAs then lol. Sorry, shippers just aren't that large part of fandoms and even that part is fractured into different ships and multishippers. Most works of fiction are made for the general audience which make the bulk of the consumers. Of course, the general audience is also slightly different from fandom. As in, they're less likely to be on social media to argue about nitty-gritty stuff like LTD.
My problem with these two is that these, again, ignore the Zack of It All. He's like, actually in the game, no matter how scarcely. Why would they build up and do a ZA reunion, only to then have a romantic CA moment? Why did they bring Zack back in the first place? So he can watch his girlfriend and best friend make out? As far as I still know, Final Fantasy isn't a CW teen drama?
Well, they sort of did that already in Remake with the "follow your heart" and "Tifa runs straight to Cloud" moment. So I am hoping that they keep Aerith out of CTs intimate moments because, to be honest, it just sounds super awkward, lol. But who knows, they might do it and they might even do it well. Though, I kinda doubt it lol.
Also, welcome!
Eerie
Fire and Blood
You have to understand that the CT fandom is way, WAY larger than the CA fandom which is LOUD essentially. Look at the numbers on YT, it's no competition. And both are really SMALL compared to the rest of the fandom.
CT has always been crafted in the story; it's going to be even more obvious. I have said it, but I expect at least 2 kisses between them, none optional. They won't be able to run away from the reality. Especially since
Oh, I'm half-convinced Aerith WILL get a kiss, but with Zack instead. They are pushing CT and ZA a LOT in both Remake and Rebirth, there's no way they're going to change at last minute what they're doing.
There won't be multiple endings; and even then, in another world with no Tifa, Cloud still rejected Aerith. There are no alternate realities as we usually imagine them, there are pockets of realities within the Lifestream which represent hopes, dreams and feelings of people (oh look... it's exactly the OG LS scene, and it will be there again in p3). Aerith's world was her world of hope, dreams and feelings, but it got crushed as Cloud rejected her and she got killed by Sephiroth. Her Promised Land is, I'm pretty sure, the church where Zack stands, maybe even Zack himself (since Tifa and the kids represent Cloud's Promised Land, we can conclude that Zack himself can also be Aerith's Promised Land).
I think they will only meet at the very end, like the OG, or it won't make any sense for ACC to exist - and yes I do believe it will exist too, it is canon to the Re-trilogy. I do not think it will be romantic in any way or shape.
So that means, no interaction between Aerith and the rest of the party: we're going to have to feel her loss, from their POV.
As I said prior, I would love an Aerti interaction, but I don't think that's possible.
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Nancy
Pro Adventurer
The only backlash I can think of if the devs does the LS and UTHW justice is the antis/loud majority so I wouldn't worry too much about them when it's the same thing over and over again.
Depends on what pt of the fandom you are talking about? The newcomers or the shippers? I know for sure one pt of the fandom, CT, isn't leaving while the other side, delusional/loud majority of the CA, I don't believe will leave since it's like their life mission to make the ones that are happy as miserable as them, hahaha
About the devs, I don't think they really get a shit. Yes, they love to read ppl's theories and what ppl come up with but that doesn't mean they will change the story into something that isn't what the devs imagine.
I said a few posts back, if the devs does give CA a kiss, it will probably be Aerith kissing Cloud on the cheek goodbye. Why would the devs wait until pt 3 when Aerith is already gone to give them a kiss, what's the whole point? If the devs wanna give them a kiss they would have done it when Aerith was still alive and kicking because obviously the devs must know the CA fandom wanted a kiss as bad as the CT side of the fandom
To me personally, I feel like there won't be much interaction between Aerith and Cloud in pt 3 because for one, the devs will probably give Aerith something to do and maybe for her to get her last LB 'Great Gospel' since that is what she uses in AC/C and considering she still hasn't learn it in rebirth before Sephiroth kills her unless the devs want to be lazy about it and just VIOLA she suddenly knows how to use it, hahaha. Two, Cloud will be in a comatose state during the whole duration until Tifa dives into help him discover/find his true self.
If the devs actually do give Aerith and Cloud an interaction, I wouldn't be surprised if Zack is there too since Zack and Cloud needs a proper goodbye if they will be the last time they see each other before AC/C starts. I would also love for Aerith and Tifa to get a proper goodbye too but I doubt the devs will do that
Almost forgot, hahaha hello and welcome to the forum!
Nancy
Pro Adventurer
Those are pretty much it
Don't forget about Cloud is just using Tifa, leaving her to take care of his and Aerith's spiritual child, Tifa's a bully, etc lol
Ryeleigh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Rye
Oh, Final Fantasy. Such inspirational stories.Those are pretty much it
Nancy
Pro Adventurer
Don't you mean Final FanficsOh, Final Fantasy. Such inspirational stories.
Also, welcome!
Thanks!
Glad to be here.I'd like to make some observations about the conversation Cloud has with his mother when he returns to Nibelheim. The contention is usually over whether she was referring to Aerith or Tifa when she was talking about what type of girl would be best for him. But my view is that she wasn't talking about either.
Claudia can't be talking about Aerith because she doesn't know Aerith. I know this is fiction and the authors can just have characters make uncanny predictions anyway. She says early on, "There are many temptations in the city". Aerith is a city mouse as we know, so this kind of rules her out. She tells Cloud when he's being a silly goose, but on the other hand, I wouldn't say she's "mature" based on her sometimes-manic personality.
I don't think Claudia is talking about Tifa either. Claudia knows Tifa. If she wanted her son to date Tifa she would have just said, "You should talk to Tifa, I think she likes you." There would be no point in bringing up some hypothetical girl.
Claudia cares about her son and thinks him getting a girlfriend would improve his mood. However, I think there is a deeper reason why she says what she says.
Claudia is observant. She knows there's something going between Tifa and her son. But I think she feels Cloud's attachment to Tifa has only caused him pain (A reasonable take by this point in the story). She blames Tifa a little for getting Cloud involved in the Nibelheim bridge collapse. (To rephrase, I don't think Claudia views Tifa as a villain in this, just that Cloud's attachment to her caused him to follow her and get blamed.)
So I think everything Claudia is saying here is supposed to be the opposite of Tifa:
"An older, more mature girl, who can keep you on the straight and narrow." Tifa is younger, therefore immature, and lead Cloud across a rickety bridge.
"Someone who'll tell you when you're being a silly goose." Tifa is reserved, doesn't speak up much. She wouldn't tell Cloud when he's being a silly goose. This somewhat foreshadows the events of FF7 where Tifa is uncomfortable confronting Clouds mental issues.
Mind you, I don't say these things to disqualify CT as a ship, this is just my thoughts on Claudia's perspective in the moment and what we are supposed to glean from her conversation with Cloud. I think if she knew the full context of the Mt. Nibel bridge collapse and the full depth of Cloud and Tifa's feelings for eachother, I think her attitude would be different.
eleamaya
Pro Adventurer
Isnt at this period at time, Tifa is more like bratty girl while the Aerith who meet Zack is more reserved?
But it makes me thinking of what you're saying about Claudia is referencing neither girl but random, I agree with this.
Though, Cloud is still not interested because he knew who he wanted.
null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
With Cloud out of the nest, I think Claudia just wanted him to find someone who would replace her in caring for him. Parents tend to want that quality in potential mates for their children. This is the only scene with Cloud and his mother, so it’s just establishing that he had a loving parent. She’s probably not dropping hints at anyone in particular.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Oh this could be something I’d agree on before ToTP, but with Tifa and Claudia’s talk in the book, I think she is very much referring to Tifa. And she’s IIRC referring to a more mature onee-chan or something like that so not specifically older, but specifically more mature. Tifa might be a brat, but she was helping elders, helping making the soup, etc. She already showed those mature qualities that could help Cloud - and she was not wrong, seeing how Tifa grew into an adult.
As a parent when I read ToTP, I immediately thought that Claudia was teasing her son as parents do with their kids when they’re in love.
As a parent when I read ToTP, I immediately thought that Claudia was teasing her son as parents do with their kids when they’re in love.