SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Eerie]

The Mt. Nibel recollection was just one part of things. The water tower is the core moment that finally cracks things wide open, and they specifically made changes to retrilogy so Cloud remembers that, remembers his promise long before Tifa brings it up.

The Mt Nibel fall wasn't just one part of the things, it was THE memory that proved Cloud was real and not a clone:


(Ultimania Omega). There's only one memory Tifa doesn't remember, and it's been a point in ToTP and it's the Mt Nibel fall. It is because Jenova is unable to know about this event through Tifa that it proves that Cloud is Cloud, that only his one true self can know about.

The Promise scene is very different, because it doesn't prove that Cloud is Cloud; however it is key to his true core, it's become his goal. I firmly believe that all the feelings that are attached to it (why did you want to join SOLDIER? > for Tifa to notice him) are going to be covered in the next LS scene (LSS) too.

There might be some changes to the LS sequence, new things added like Stargazer Heights, but the heart of the matter is definitely staying the same.

However, I also agree with this fully. I have posted just yesterday a thread about my observations about the LSS as well as my hopes, so I shall repost it here too, so people can see what I think when I talk about it.

When I think about the LSS, there are several things that I contemplate:

• a la Doctor Who, this is a fixed scene in time and space (or rather in the Lifestream itself as Tifa could see). It has this kind of importance;
• the first part is all about proving that Cloud is the real one, so his memories about the Nibelheim incident can be validated;
• however, the black whispers were attacking it at the end of the game, what does that mean? Now it is an ending scene and I can't help but remember people going on for 3 years about Zack in the church by the end of REMAKE's DLC, but in the end it didn't mean much. So it could very well be a metaphor for what's happening in game with Cloud forgetting about his precious memories;
• Tifa has already seen the key scene that's supposed to prove Cloud is Cloud.

Now, aside the second point that comes from the OG, all the others are told in REBIRTH, these are facts.

Now the Lifestream scene in REBIRTH and the one in p3 will be different; with the way it was presented, the OG scene reminds me more of Aerith's dream world than the scene from REBIRTH, even more so I would say that it is very similar to Tifa's trial (and since I suspect the trials to take place in such worlds as Aerith's dream world... it does connect).

Basically, and this is also true to the OG scene, the LSS represents Cloud's true hopes and feelings, this is his little dream world. But we saw in the Lifestream's scene from REBIRTH that Stargazer and 7th Heaven are also there; which leads me to believe that, given how we saw Cloud THIRST for Tifa in REMAKE, that Cloud might have to spell out those hopes (I want to impress Tifa, I must become an incredible man for her, which both came out from OG and his little novella from pre-REBIRTH) as well as his feelings. To include possibly 7th Heaven and Stargazer means to me that they intent to say "yes this is about the past, but also the present". I can't help but remember Nojima's coy smile when he said "there's this cute little scene where Tifa shows him his place, it looks like a japanese building, look out for it!" - if this comes back in the LSS, then DAMN he is playing such a long game! To expplain more, from feelings and hopes we might get back erased memories if they truly are erased, it is a possibility.

Only after they validate that he is the true Cloud do they come back to the retelling of the Nibelheim incident. Will the devs keep it as it is in the OG, with the final surprise? I think yeah, but what they could do is also add flashbacks once we discover Cloud taking off his helmet: he and his mum, the dinner with Zack, Tifa realising it was always him trying to protect her under his grunt helmet which would lead to Cloud finding himself back.

In terms of flashbacks, I really do hope they'll add Claudia's death there and that we'll discover how it was her death that traumatised him and made him deny his most cherished friends' deaths (aka Zack and Aerith). Reading that post here earlier really made me think about it and yeah, I believe we need to see it.

 

[Skilganon]

So about the LS sequence in part 3, do you think Cloud and Tifa will each have their own whale to ride around in? Or will they be in the same whale, locked together in an embrace?

Personally, I want them to follow the OG and not have the weapon whales, but the devs have kinda set a precedent, so...

It also makes you wonder where the Weapon weapons in part 3 are going to come from, Ruby, Sapphire, Diamond, etc.

 

[Ryushikaze]

The Mt Nibel fall wasn't just one part of the things, it was THE memory that proved Cloud was real and not a clone:

View attachment 17197
(Ultimania Omega). There's only one memory Tifa doesn't remember, and it's been a point in ToTP and it's the Mt Nibel fall. It is because Jenova is unable to know about this event through Tifa that it proves that Cloud is Cloud, that only his one true self can know about.

The Promise scene is very different, because it doesn't prove that Cloud is Cloud; however it is key to his true core, it's become his goal. I firmly believe that all the feelings that are attached to it (why did you want to join SOLDIER? > for Tifa to notice him) are going to be covered in the next LS scene (LSS) too.

I say it's just a part because it on its own isn't enough to fully restore Cloud. It proves he's real, absolutely, but it isn't the part that helps him coalesce, even in OG. I think we're going to see the water tower promise be even more crucial to events this time around, given the narrative was changed so Cloud remembered it, entirely unprompted in Remake.

However, I also agree with this fully. I have posted just yesterday a thread about my observations about the LSS as well as my hopes, so I shall repost it here too, so people can see what I think when I talk about it.

When I think about the LSS, there are several things that I contemplate:

• a la Doctor Who, this is a fixed scene in time and space (or rather in the Lifestream itself as Tifa could see). It has this kind of importance;
• the first part is all about proving that Cloud is the real one, so his memories about the Nibelheim incident can be validated;
• however, the black whispers were attacking it at the end of the game, what does that mean? Now it is an ending scene and I can't help but remember people going on for 3 years about Zack in the church by the end of REMAKE's DLC, but in the end it didn't mean much. So it could very well be a metaphor for what's happening in game with Cloud forgetting about his precious memories;
• Tifa has already seen the key scene that's supposed to prove Cloud is Cloud.

Now, aside the second point that comes from the OG, all the others are told in REBIRTH, these are facts.

I am not sure how important validating Cloud's memories of the incident is, aside from confirming he was there and did fulfill his promise to Tifa, in an in universe sense, at least.

Now the Lifestream scene in REBIRTH and the one in p3 will be different; with the way it was presented, the OG scene reminds me more of Aerith's dream world than the scene from REBIRTH, even more so I would say that it is very similar to Tifa's trial (and since I suspect the trials to take place in such worlds as Aerith's dream world... it does connect).

Basically, and this is also true to the OG scene, the LSS represents Cloud's true hopes and feelings, this is his little dream world. But we saw in the Lifestream's scene from REBIRTH that Stargazer and 7th Heaven are also there; which leads me to believe that, given how we saw Cloud THIRST for Tifa in REMAKE, that Cloud might have to spell out those hopes (I want to impress Tifa, I must become an incredible man for her, which both came out from OG and his little novella from pre-REBIRTH) as well as his feelings. To include possibly 7th Heaven and Stargazer means to me that they intent to say "yes this is about the past, but also the present". I can't help but remember Nojima's coy smile when he said "there's this cute little scene where Tifa shows him his place, it looks like a japanese building, look out for it!" - if this comes back in the LSS, then DAMN he is playing such a long game! To expplain more, from feelings and hopes we might get back erased memories if they truly are erased, it is a possibility.

Only after they validate that he is the true Cloud do they come back to the retelling of the Nibelheim incident. Will the devs keep it as it is in the OG, with the final surprise? I think yeah, but what they could do is also add flashbacks once we discover Cloud taking off his helmet: he and his mum, the dinner with Zack, Tifa realising it was always him trying to protect her under his grunt helmet which would lead to Cloud finding himself back.

In terms of flashbacks, I really do hope they'll add Claudia's death there and that we'll discover how it was her death that traumatised him and made him deny his most cherished friends' deaths (aka Zack and Aerith). Reading that post here earlier really made me think about it and yeah, I believe we need to see it.

I definitely do want more of the full events of Nibelheim told after we get Cloud restored. His time with Claudia, his protecting Tifa as the grunt, etc. not just the final showdown in the reactor basement.

 

[Eerie]

So about the LS sequence in part 3, do you think Cloud and Tifa will each have their own whale to ride around in? Or will they be in the same whale, locked together in an embrace?

It is very possible that the Weapons will allow them to survive in the Lifestream, however as I said, the place where they will meet will probably one of those mini-worlds inside the LS, this one created by Cloud's true self (just like Aerith's dream world was hers, as well as other places though but she is a Cetra after all). Those are talked about in Cosmo Canyon by NPC talking there.

I say it's just a part because it on its own isn't enough to fully restore Cloud. It proves he's real, absolutely, but it isn't the part that helps him coalesce, even in OG. I think we're going to see the water tower promise be even more crucial to events this time around, given the narrative was changed so Cloud remembered it, entirely unprompted in Remake.

That is very true, which is also why you'll notice that I only said that after Tifa realises he's been there all this time it will allow him to become one again xD

I do wonder if him remembering the Promise by himself will haver any impact: after all in his version there was no shooting star, but we know it must've been there. It's also very telling that SE chose to show it once again in Rebirth in another form, as well as in SE with the wallpaper. We know SE loves this scene but it's been pushed oddly in the forefront me think. So I wonder if the lack of shooting star will start something.

I am not sure how important validating Cloud's memories of the incident is, aside from confirming he was there and did fulfill his promise to Tifa, in an in universe sense, at least.

It is important to prove that the memories of the Nibelheim incident are true and not made up by Jenova, and this one explains why and how Cloud knows so damn much. It's important for Tifa, who needs to understand, and it's important because it is their love story too. I have said it enough, but I do expect a confession (from both!) and a kiss there, and it can only happen once Cloud is himself.

I definitely do want more of the full events of Nibelheim told afteyr we get Cloud restored. His time with Claudia, his protecting Tifa as the grunt, etc. not just the final showdown in the reactor basement.

When I saw the whole Kalm flashback, I immediately knew that I wanted to see the whole thing with the real story going on, because they put so many clues and details there!

 

[Skilganon]

It's pretty unclear in the Remake series how much Cloud remembers. He seems to remember more than the OG, but we don't know exactly. We know he's blocking out memories of the Nibelheim incident, so my guess is the LSS will hinge on him remembering how he was in Nibelheim and what went down between him and Sephiroth. That's also how Tifa will learn the full picture.

I'd like a scene in the Lifestream to show Cloud enlisting in the army and being rejected from the SOLDIER program. I want them to mention something like, "You have high mako-sensitivity son, if someone like you gets that treatment, you'd lose your sense of self". And then show him meeting Zack and them hanging out. I think it would lead well into the true events of the Nibelheim incident.

 

[Eerie]

It's pretty unclear in the Remake series how much Cloud remembers.

??? I mean the LS scene is true Cloud with all his memories anyway, this is beyond the point?

I'd like a scene in the Lifestream to show Cloud enlisting in the army and being rejected from the SOLDIER program. I want them to mention something like, "You have high mako-sensitivity son, if someone like you gets that treatment, you'd lose your sense of self". And then show him meeting Zack and them hanging out. I think it would lead well into the true events of the Nibelheim incident.

I don't know if we're going to see this there, because the LS scene is about Cloud and Tifa. It is a love confession, where memories are also validated, explaining the whole plot. Maybe they can do something like this in the lab under the Shinra mansion though?

I know everyone wants to add tons of things in the Lifestream scene, but even Zack's death wasn't there. The Lifestream scene exists, narratively, for two things:

• it's a love confession between the characters
• it's here to explain the Nibelheim incident and what really happpened, which seals true!Cloud's come back

... and it really doesn't need to do more, as many players already didn't get the love confession part in the OG. But I do expect both of these sides to be expanded upon, yes.

 

[Ryushikaze]

It is very possible that the Weapons will allow them to survive in the Lifestream, however as I said, the place where they will meet will probably one of those mini-worlds inside the LS, this one created by Cloud's true self (just like Aerith's dream world was hers, as well as other places though but she is a Cetra after all). Those are talked about in Cosmo Canyon by NPC talking there.


That is very true, which is also why you'll notice that I only said that after Tifa realises he's been there all this time it will allow him to become one again xD

I do wonder if him remembering the Promise by himself will haver any impact: after all in his version there was no shooting star, but we know it must've been there. It's also very telling that SE chose to show it once again in Rebirth in another form, as well as in SE with the wallpaper. We know SE loves this scene but it's been pushed oddly in the forefront me think. So I wonder if the lack of shooting star will start something.

I wonder if the fact that he doesn't remember the star will actually prove that he's real... because he was looking away, at Tifa, when it shot down.

It is important to prove that the memories of the Nibelheim incident are true and not made up by Jenova, and this one explains why and how Cloud knows so damn much. It's important for Tifa, who needs to understand, and it's important because it is their love story too. I have said it enough, but I do expect a confession (from both!) and a kiss there, and it can only happen once Cloud is himself.

What I mean is, knowing that it's the real Cloud is important, and knowing he was at Nibelheim, that he came when Tifa was in trouble is important, but learning the exact details of how Cloud bested Sephiroth strikes me as something more important to show to the audience than to Tifa.

When I saw the whole Kalm flashback, I immediately knew that I wanted to see the whole thing with the real story going on, because they put so many clues and details there!

If they show Cloud reconnecting all the distorted memories, that we see the two actually fixing the gaps in all his memories, that would definitely provide context for showing how he bested Sephiroth and make it more important in character to watch all of that.

It's pretty unclear in the Remake series how much Cloud remembers. He seems to remember more than the OG, but we don't know exactly. We know he's blocking out memories of the Nibelheim incident, so my guess is the LSS will hinge on him remembering how he was in Nibelheim and what went down between him and Sephiroth. That's also how Tifa will learn the full picture.

I'd like a scene in the Lifestream to show Cloud enlisting in the army and being rejected from the SOLDIER program. I want them to mention something like, "You have high mako-sensitivity son, if someone like you gets that treatment, you'd lose your sense of self". And then show him meeting Zack and them hanging out. I think it would lead well into the true events of the Nibelheim incident.

I think if they show anything like this is should be elsewhere, and it shouldn't be excused with "Mako sensitivity" but "You don't pass the mental fortitude tests, son"

 

[Skilganon]

??? I mean the LS scene is true Cloud with all his memories anyway, this is beyond the point?

In Remake, Cloud seems to remember the bridge collapse (it might just be because Tifa mentions it). He also remembers Zack when he returns to the Nibelheim Inn. In the OG, he doesn't remember any of this.

I understand that for plot reasons why Remake Cloud remembers certain things, but that means the LSS has less to reveal. So I'm wondering what the 'Big Reveal' of the LSS is going to be if it isn't the bridge collapse.

Also, this may come as a hot take, but I don't think it is really necessary to make the LSS completely romantic. Of course, child Cloud will talk about his crush on Tifa, the sealed up secret wish. Tifa will talk about how she looked in the news for him and waited for him in Nibelheim. I think it will be pretty clear they have feelings for each other by the end of it. But I don't want the message to be that Cloud gets better because a girl likes him. Cloud should accept himself on principle.

I've always felt like the CT relationship starts in earnest at the Highwind Scene. That's when they exchange mutual feelings.

 

[Ryushikaze]

In Remake, Cloud seems to remember the bridge collapse (it might just be because Tifa mentions it). He also remembers Zack when he returns to the Nibelheim Inn. In the OG, he doesn't remember any of this.

There's a bridge collapse in the OG as well, it just happens differently.

 

[Skilganon]

There's a scene in the OG where he remembers the bridge collapse before the LSS? I may be like Cloud, misremembering things. It's been a while since I played the OG.

 

[Ryushikaze]

There's a scene in the OG where he remembers the bridge collapse before the LSS? I may be like Cloud, misremembering things. It's been a while since I played the OG.

The 8 year old event isn't brought up explicitly, but his inner voice does bring up "back then we just got by with scraped knees" after his fall into the church.

The bridge fall in the nibelheim incident involves a very different- IIRC the same bridge?- as the 8 year old event, which is not ever depicted fully, just the moments right beforehand, I think.

 

[Skilganon]

My point was that, originally the bridge collapse was the memory that verified Cloud as an individual, because it's something that Tifa forgot but Cloud recalled for her. It had to come from him.

So... What will be the catalyst in the new LSS? The memory that verfies Cloud as a human with a past. Now that the cat is out of the bag, they'll have to have a different moment. I'm thinking they'll make the finale of the LSS in part 3 Cloud's showdown with Sephiroth in the reactor, since it's something only he knows.

 

[Ryushikaze]

My point was that, originally the bridge collapse was the memory that verified Cloud as an individual, because it's something that Tifa forgot but Cloud recalled for her. It had to come from him.

So... What will be the catalyst in the new LSS? The memory that verfies Cloud as a human with a past. Now that the cat is out of the bag, they'll have to have a different moment. I'm thinking they'll make the finale of the LSS in part 3 Cloud's showdown with Sephiroth in the reactor, since it's something only he knows.

I mean the final of the Lifestream sequence is Cloud merging back with himself and he and Tifa floating together to the real world holding hands.

But no, verifying Cloud's humanity with the Nibelheim incident itself doesn't work. That needs to come after Cloud has been logically and emotionally convinced he is the real Cloud. We've already been shown the mother seeking bridge sequence, that doesn't mean it can't be revisted.

 

[Eerie]

I understand that for plot reasons why Remake Cloud remembers certain things, but that means the LSS has less to reveal. So I'm wondering what the 'Big Reveal' of the LSS is going to be if it isn't the bridge collapse.

The LSS still has plenty to reveal. You are looking at it from a memories point of view, but the LSS is in a place that's more than just memories: I have repeated it, but it's a place where feelings and hopes are crystallised. As I already said, it will be different than the one we saw in Rebirth, and more like Aerith's dream world.

Also, this may come as a hot take, but I don't think it is really necessary to make the LSS completely romantic.

But the OG one was completely romantic. I see no need to change that.

But I don't want the message to be that Cloud gets better because a girl likes him.

I have bad news for you. Cloud only truly opened up after the OG. Until he got with Tifa, everything he did was to make her notice him.

The 8 year old event isn't brought up explicitly, but his inner voice does bring up "back then we just got by with scraped knees" after his fall into the church.

He also brought it up in the Remake scene, and is interrupted by Sephiroth.

My point was that, originally the bridge collapse was the memory that verified Cloud as an individual, because it's something that Tifa forgot but Cloud recalled for her. It had to come from him.

It's not memories they are going to go through, it's feelings and hopes, because they went through their memories A LOT in Rebirth. That's why Tifa sees it, it's because it's not what will be important in the Re-trilogy!LSS.

So... What will be the catalyst in the new LSS?

See above.

We've already been shown the mother seeking bridge sequence, that doesn't mean it can't be revisted.

That too. And seeing how they love to revisit the Promise, we'll get it... again. Yet we saw it in both Remake and Rebirth because it's one of the most important scenes that bond Cloud and Tifa together and that had such an impact on both. Think about the number of times they've redone that scene or alluded to it, it's crazy:

• OG: twice in game + Tifa wallpaper alluding to it
• Remake: once in game + Tifa wallpaper redone
• Rebirth: once in game
• EC: once + cloti wallpaper alluding to it + another in game still has to be done
• p3: most probably once in game

... I do think it's the scene they've revisited the most since the OG.

 

[null]

Also, this may come as a hot take, but I don't think it is really necessary to make the LSS completely romantic. Of course, child Cloud will talk about his crush on Tifa, the sealed up secret wish. Tifa will talk about how she looked in the news for him and waited for him in Nibelheim. I think it will be pretty clear they have feelings for each other by the end of it. But I don't want the message to be that Cloud gets better because a girl likes him. Cloud should accept himself on principle.

I've always felt like the CT relationship starts in earnest at the Highwind Scene. That's when they exchange mutual feelings.

I tend to agree that love shouldn’t take over all aspects of a story, but the way Cloud and Tifa are written, I think it’s pretty much impossible to separate romance from non-romance. This forum even has a rule that you can’t talk about their relationship - literally the most important one in the story - outside of this LTD dungeon.

Maybe the intent of the Lifestream scene was to show Cloud accepting himself, and iirc Tifa even says he did it on his own. But it only happens by revealing how wrapped up they are in each other, which imo sends a more powerful message than them having sex in the grass.

 

[Skilganon]

I get that Cloud and Tifa's relationship is important, but it shouldn't look like they're codependent on each other.

Like, I understand that all of Cloud's childhood demonstrates that he's a simp for Tifa, that isn't what I'm arguing. My point is, one does not graduate from being a simp just because the object of affection happens to like them back. That isn't character progression, at least not to me. Cloud shows a lot of progression in being willing to accept his failures, but his acceptance shouldn't hinge on what Tifa thinks. That just makes him codependent.

The Lifestream scene should work even if Tifa doesn't like him. Imagine you have to bare your soul and all your embarrassing moments to a girl you've liked your entire life, and she doesn't like you back. But she's still willing to help you work things out. That would be even more emotionally impactful, and demonstrate the protagonist's character progression to a far greater degree.

The best couples make each other the best version of themselves, that's why I want to see Cloud and Tifa interact as adults.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I get that Cloud and Tifa's relationship is important, but it shouldn't look like they're codependent on each other.

Like, I understand that all of Cloud's childhood demonstrates that he's a simp for Tifa, that isn't what I'm arguing. My point is, one does not graduate from being a simp just because the object of affection happens to like them back. That isn't character progression, at least not to me. Cloud shows a lot of progression in being willing to accept his failures, but his acceptance shouldn't hinge on what Tifa thinks. That just makes him codependent.

Hold up a minute there, other Tim. It's not codependence for Tifa to learn Cloud definitely has feelings for her while she acts as a guide for him putting himself back together.

The Lifestream scene should work even if Tifa doesn't like him. Imagine you have to bare your soul and all your embarrassing moments to a girl you've liked your entire life, and she doesn't like you back. But she's still willing to help you work things out. That would be even more emotionally impactful, and demonstrate the protagonist's character progression to a far greater degree.

The best couples make each other the best version of themselves, that's why I want to see Cloud and Tifa interact as adults.

This will sound odd initially, but Tifa's emotions re: Cloud are a non factor to the primary purpose of the lifestream. He does not need her approval to piece himself back together, and she does not use that as some sort of carrot on a stick, because she does not yet realize that he's that down bad for her.
What she uses is her faith that Cloud is CLOUD to act as an anchor to help Cloud convince himself that he's real. And part of THAT involves going into the deepest parts of his psyche and confronting his failures and his motivations and being willing to admit to them. That's what helps Cloud coalesce his full psyche and that's what allows him to remember the true events of Nibelheim and prove Sephiroth was lying and Tifa was mistaken.

 

[Skilganon]

This will sound odd initially, but Tifa's emotions re: Cloud are a non factor to the primary purpose of the lifestream. He does not need her approval to piece himself back together, and she does not use that as some sort of carrot on a stick, because she does not yet realize that he's that down bad for her.
What she uses is her faith that Cloud is CLOUD to act as an anchor to help Cloud convince himself that he's real. And part of THAT involves going into the deepest parts of his psyche and confronting his failures and his motivations and being willing to admit to them. That's what helps Cloud coalesce his full psyche and that's what allows him to remember the true events of Nibelheim and prove Sephiroth was lying and Tifa was mistaken.

All of this makes sense to me. But your description of the LSS doesn't sound romantic. In that way, it's more similar to my thinking. Tifa has faith in Cloud, that's what really matters, feelings aside.

 

[Eerie]

All of this makes sense to me. But your description of the LSS doesn't sound romantic. In that way, it's more similar to my thinking. Tifa has faith in Cloud, that's what really matters, feelings aside.

And yet the LSS is the sequence where Cloud and Tifa learned their feelings for each other.

It’s romantic because it’s a long sequence that is very intimate and between the two, about them two and their shared feelings and history. What is more romantic than that?

 

[Ryushikaze]

All of this makes sense to me. But your description of the LSS doesn't sound romantic. In that way, it's more similar to my thinking. Tifa has faith in Cloud, that's what really matters, feelings aside.

The romance arises as a consequence of the sequence, not as a prerequisite for it, though there is a prerequisite of the level of trust and intimacy involved in Tifa calling out for Cloud and him instinctually pulling her in to protect her, leading to her being able to help fix him.

No, the romance comes later, when Cloud reveals his feelings for Tifa as part of the core of his being, and Tifa reveals hers in turn.

 

[null]

I feel like I’m not on the same page with everyone else on what romance means. Or codependency, or simping for that matter.

Edit - by that I mean I wrote a reply and then deleted it after realizing how many different yet valid ways those words can be taken.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Tifa has faith in Cloud, that's what really matters, feelings aside.

I kinda feel like the thread has gone back to arguing about tangential semantics. I mean, you could say that Tifa has faith in Cloud because of her love for him, yes? That the two are intrinsically linked? And it goes back to their romantic feelings because it was Tifa alone who could enter Cloud's soul/psyche and affirm his existence? And if it was platonic, the devs might as well have made it into a group project, lol?

I hope I made sense with that, lol.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I kinda feel like the thread has gone back to arguing about tangential semantics. I mean, you could say that Tifa has faith in Cloud because of her love for him, yes? That the two are intrinsically linked? And it goes back to their romantic feelings because it was Tifa alone who could enter Cloud's soul/psyche and affirm his existence? And if it was platonic, the devs might as well have made it into a group project, lol?

I hope I made sense with that, lol.

To clarify my statements, the feelings are romantic, but the sequence itself works without relying on that romance because, well, neither side is yet sure about the other's romantic feelings.
Tifa isn't using Cloud's romantic feelings and desire to get her attention as a carrot because she doesn't know about it yet (and wouldn't use them even if she knew).

The romantic understanding between the two of them- and the understanding that their interactions have always been tinged with this if you weren't yet aware is the 'reward' for the piecing together of the real Cloud and understanding his deepest desires and motivations.

 

[Ryeleigh]

To clarify my statements, the feelings are romantic, but the sequence itself works without relying on that romance because, well, neither side is yet sure about the other's romantic feelings.

I think what I'm trying to say is that... they don't really need to be aware or sure of each other's romantic feelings but it's still precisely because of those romantic feelings that the Lifestream scene happens? Like, there is a reason why it's just Cloud and Tifa and it's just Cloud and Tifa because their romantic feelings for one another are so tied into the story? So in that sense, it kinda feels as if the thread has gone back to arguing tangential semantics? English isn't my mother language so I'm not sure if I'm expressing my nebulous thoughts well, lol.

So anyway, carry on, lol.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I think what I'm trying to say is that... they don't really need to be aware or sure of each other's romantic feelings but it's still precisely because of those romantic feelings that the Lifestream scene happens? Like, there is a reason why it's just Cloud and Tifa and it's just Cloud and Tifa because their romantic feelings for one another are so tied into the story? So in that sense, it kinda feels as if the thread has gone back to arguing tangential semantics? English isn't my mother language so I'm not sure if I'm expressing my nebulous thoughts well, lol.

So anyway, carry on, lol.

I'm not saying Cloud and Tifa are not driven by their romantic love for each other, because they obviously are from years before the game starts.

What I am saying is that Cloud's romantic feelings aren't a factor to how Tifa acts and vice versa. She acts the way she does because she genuinely loves Cloud, he lets her in because he genuinely loves her, but that's a background element throughout most of the lifestream sequence, and them becoming aware of those shared feelings is part of the 'reward' of fixing Cloud's mind.