Re: Love Triangle Discussion
FFF?
I'd consider myself 'neutral' (and do), as long as it hasn't morphed into 'has no, and can have no opinion' again.
[quote author=looneymoon link=topic=53.msg1192#msg1192 date=1228802716]and just wondering: is there anything really significant regarding this issue in the original Ultimania?[/quote]
I personally think that the original FFVII Omega and subsequent Ultimanias have some pretty damning stuff in favour of Cloud and Tifa. Particularly the Highwind
sex scene
Just the way they describe it, the phrases they use and how they write it, really seems to point towards Cloud and Tifa having forms a proper relationship at that point.
To go into more detail (because where would threads like these be without walls of text
), the two that stand out most to me are (sure I mentioned them on ACF but here they are again):
- ??????
- ???????
I have a hard time thinking of a good, English way to put them (or remember what I might have put before), so I'll just try to explain them instead
The first is used in reference to the pair of them after the Highwind scene, and the second in both their profiles in reference to the Highwind scene. The first shows that they have a proper, full understanding of each other and their thoughts and feelings. The second is kind of similar, but just really sounds like a romantic phrase (especially by using the much more emotional '??' instead of still-okay-but-kind-of-plain '??'
. Its usage, particually when written the way it is, seems more like a roundabout way to say 'they became a couple', suggesting a deep relationship was formed there. Although it was used on both their profiles, even if it wasn't the phrase implies that a mutual reciprocation of feelings.
Then, of course, koi--bito
(Though in the Reunion Files and not the Ultimania.) I've asked several people, Japanese people who I asked in Japanese and they answered in Japanese, about this word and its usage and have never heard this 'one-sided' thing that gets tossed around. It's basically, if you hear this, people are going to assume that it's mutual and that there's two people involved there (since the word itself is talking about the object of affection, not the person doting the affection). And for Tifa, the only one who really makes any sense is Cloud.
Not to say that's always the case, since emotions are a subjective thing. You can think to yourself, "hey, Billy's my koibito" while Billy might be all "woah, back off woman". However, we aren't talking about what Tifa thinks herself. Because this was Nomura, talking about a fictional character in the third person.
'Languages change' is something that gets brought out when this word comes up, which I don't disagree with. Because I can't understand some of the things kids say in English nowadays. But Nomura isn't some 17 year old school girl. He's a man in his 30s. I think he's more likely to use it in the 'old-fashioned' way from when he was growing up than what the kids are saying nowadays. Which seems to point towards to the tradition meaning.
Going further off topic, I don't think comparing 'koi' and 'ai' really works here either. 'Koi' might not be a 'serious and deep' as 'ai' (you have have 'ai' for your family or country or the world, but you can't 'koi' for those things without being weird). But 'aijin' (??, 'koibito' ?? written with 'ai' instead of 'koi'
isn't really a more serious 'koibito'. At least not anymore. Now, it's more used as a euphemistic way to refer to extramarital partners.
Chinese got brought up at ACF, but even that doesn't work because Japanese isn't Chinese. IIRC in Chinese, 'aijin' (or whatever it's called in Chinese, airen?) is 'spouse'. Japanese 'letter' means 'toilet paper', Japanese 'run' means 'walk'. Comparing them doesn't always work.
It's stuff like this (the on topic stuff
) which makes it harder for me to believe that Square intends for any continual Cloud/Aerith romance.
There was also another one, can't remember where, which mentioned how they lived apart for a while, using a word used when married couples live separately
CM to break up my wall of text.
On this note, what does the English guide book for Crisis Core say in Tifa's character profile, specifically where they talk about her role in and beyond FFVII? As I recall, the English book is pretty much (for the character part at least) a translation of the CC Ultimania, so I was wondering what Tifa's profile said since it also used one of those phrases (the second one). I was wondering what they put for it.
