The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

If Cloud fell in love with Tifa and it wasn't plainly seen by others, then he secretly fell in love with her.

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I understand what you and Ryu are trying to say but I guess my problem is how many people have told me the opposite of what you said.

How is a bunch of people being wrong your problem?

oh for fuck's sake, are you serious? Do you honestly not know what I was saying? Sorry let me rephrase that

"The reason I disagree with what Tres and Ryu say is because many people have told me another story."

Is that better for you?

To be honest I feel the best translation is 'stupid'.

Do you like being wrong and listening to the wrong information, Que?

Serious question. Because if you're just gonna close your ears to the facts just because of a biased majority says "NO ITS NO TRU" then there's obviously something up.

Do you like being wrong and listening to the wrong information, Que?

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Prove to me that I'm wrong and I'll "listen." You are aware that Hito also said "vague" right? And that I said I agreed with that, right? Is he bias? Is the all experts.com guy bias as well?

because if you're just gonna close your ears to the facts just because of a biased majority says "NO ITS NO TRU" then there's obviously something up.

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Erm, how can you tell if the translators are biased, especially since it seems from the discussion on some level seems to believe that vague/dim is a decent translation.

Thank you. I mean fuck, just because someone translates something you agree with, doesn't mean the other person is bias. WTF is that?

Chameleon said:

The best way to understand "honoka" as "dim" -- and the reason that "secret" is the right choice for the translation into English -- is because the word refers to how clearly something is noticed by others. The word deals with perception, not with potency.

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I kind of saw that definition (わずかにそれと認められるさま。かすか&#12290 going more with perception by the physical senses like hearing and smell, etc.

I see things like this (relating to emotions or mental functions like memory) as applying the second definition, of feelings being unclear or not concretely defined (心や意識がぼんやりしているさま。かすか&#12290 It even uses 'feelings of love' as an example for this in the dictionary (仄かな恋心, which I think was what they used for Elena's feelings towards Tseng as well).

I've had it liked to 淡い恋心 before, which is more of a 'light' love. Like the first stages of love before it develops into something more serious.

The trouble I see with 'secret' now (meaning it just came into my head while writing this so isn't too thought out) is that ほのか still refers to it being perceived, if only very slightly. How would 'secret(ly)' work if no one was aware of Cloud's feelings? Even if something is 'dim', it's still being noticed by someone. I woudl think 'secretly' would mean no one knew about it, which doesn't seem to be the case with ほのか used for perception.

Quexinos said:

oh for fuck's sake, are you serious? Do you honestly not know what I was saying? Sorry let me rephrase that

"The reason I disagree with what Tres and Ryu say is because many people have told me another story."

Is that better for you?

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Heh heh.

Well Hito, I appreciate your opinion but obviously you're wrong and bias

But seriously, thanks for explaining it. It makes a lot of sense
Maybe someday I'll know as much about Japanese as yo-...

hey hey, quit laughing everyone

Terra said:

To be honest I feel the best translation is 'stupid'.

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My favorite is: Honoka is an award-winning Japanese adult video (AV) actress and popular TV personality and actress. She retired from the AV industry in 2008.

On a lighter side, I went to watch Shrek 4 today [yeah, it was only out since Wednesday in France, no comment on how late we get movies please] and the ending made me go "oh shi-"
Somewhere inside of me, a mean part went "lulz" XD

I know it's not a big deal to anyone here, but I think we should address what's on the page that says that if Tifa's affection for Cloud is high blah blah on the For The One That I Love... you know the one that the Cleriths say proves Cloti isn't canon. Just so they stop thinking we're hiding it and explain why it doesn't matter to us that the page says that.

Quexinos said:

I know it's not a big deal to anyone here, but I think we should address what's on the page that says that if Tifa's affection for Cloud is high blah blah on the For The One That I Love... you know the one that the Cleriths say proves Cloti isn't canon. Just so they stop thinking we're hiding it and explain why it doesn't matter to us that the page says that.

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Uh, what?

Need more context, I guess I wasn't here for that one.

The "This Just in, FFVII Love Triangle is Official Over" article that doesn't mention that the Cloud and Tifa part links to a page that says that scene occurs only when Tifa's affection for Cloud is high. Because many Cleriths thinks this disproves that Cloti is canon, it'd probably be a good idea to address it or update the article or something. I already wrote something up on it that you're welcome to use but I'm betting this idea will get shot down anyway

Yeah. it will get shot down... basically because nobody cares. c:

I figured as much

Ryu said:

The flowers on Zack's grave are not in and of themselves the symbolism.

The flowers, COMBINED WITH THE FUCKING SWORD IN THE CHURCH is the symbolism.

It's the RECIPROCAL MERGING OF THE SYMBOLS OF ZACK AND AERITH BY CLOUD in their symbolic places that makes this fucking symbolism.

So the next time you want to talk about AC/C vs Dissidia, remember that FLOWERS ON THEIR OWN ARE NOT WHAT MAKE THE SYMBOL IN THE END OF AC/C.

Got it yet? Can I stop screaming? Because I feel like I need to be screaming, because some people aren't fucking getting it.

Anything examined in isolation is not examined at all.

And BTW, Cloud stomping over flowers is totally not a 'good' Clerith hint.
Also, if we want to bring Dissidia shit into it, Aerith is relegated to the status of 'fallen comrade.'

Listen, the ending symbolizes people returning to their worlds. Both Squall and Cloud return to their worlds via the fields. Tidus goes home through water. Cecil goes home symbolized through the moon. Zidane goes home towards the sun, Bartz through the woods. These exits all symbolize PLACES, not PEOPLE.
It makes NO FUCKDAMN SENSE for Cloud to be the single exception, especially when he shares his exit background with someone else.

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Alright, first thing I gotta say is that yes, Ryu, you can stop screaming out cluster F-bombs. In fact, I'm sure the target of those F-bombs would appreciate it if you did.

Now, you make a somewhat good point here with regards to the fact that the imagery at the end of Dissidia is clearly indicative of the worlds that the characters are returning to rather than to a person, Good show. But, I seem to remember something related to this. It was quite a while ago, in the previous LTD thread, back when I still found this amusing for the most part. What was it?

Oh, right: Quex brought up the flowers, and she made reference to Aerith because, y'know, they're the same fucking flowers seen in her church. At the time, several persons seemed to take offense to the very idea, including yourself. The prevalent concept put forth to explain the flowers, as I recall, was to tie them to Cloud having taken up Firion's dream for himself, with a different flower than Firion's wild rose. Any connection to Aerith at all was derided as batshit pinker insanity. Now, though, while you still (rightly imo) deny that the flowers are in any way Clerith proofz (which Quex never did, she said only that she could see why some people do) you are on a totally different tangent from the "they symbolize Cloud's acceptance of Firion's flower-symbolized dreams" that was at one time prevalent. You moved in the right direction, but considering the changes maybe you might consider not screaming at people in impotent rage and such.

In closing, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck. See, it doesn't do much to make an argument better, or even emphasize anything, if you overuse it.

Edit: Its come to my attention that Ryu may not have been one of the people involved in the situation I described above. If not, he has my apologies for ascribing behavior not his own onto him, Either way, dude, enough with the screaming at Quex (and anyone else) for not getting it. I stopped finding that kinda shit funny months ago, let alone the poor folks who've been dealing with it for years.

Either way, dude, enough with the screaming at Quex (and anyone else) for not getting it. I stopped finding that kinda shit funny months ago, let alone the poor folks who've been dealing with it for years.

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Thanks for saying that EG. It's hard to keep track of everyone's arguments so it's very easy to say someone said something someone else may have said. Some people will tell you the flowers have nothing to do with Aerith, others will tell you they're about atonement and others will say they are her flowers but simply tie to the world Cloud is returning to.

Anyways, I appreciate it, and yes it does kind of make me not want to post when I get greeted what that stuff. Especially when I repeat things other people say, but I'm the only one who gets addressed. Maybe I'm being too sensitive or taking internets too seriously, and I'm sorry if anyone feels that way, but I do kind of miss the old days of us just discussing ideas and here and joking around and stuff. Think we can get back to that?

You're definitely taking this too seriously if you're getting upset over what Mako posted.

BTW how does the 20th Anv Ultimania telling us flat out that Cloud and Tifa reveal mutual romantic feelings also mean that they might not have?

Did the universe implode from that logic bomb?

I'm sorry but the entry doesn't read, "Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match. Or not. It's up to you buddy."

BTW how does the 20th Anv Ultimania telling us flat out that Cloud and Tifa reveal mutual romantic feelings also mean that they might not have?

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Because of the page where it says there's two versions of the scene. They think this means it's telling us "this is optional"

What it's actually telling us is, "this is how you find this scene." since it doesn't even go into detail about the low affection version. At least that's how I see it. And again, no feelings were shared in the low affection version. Nojima said this when he said it was apathetic and ends short and said only the high affection version of the scene was meaningful.

I don't get that though, I mean if you're saying Nojima said those things and then saying they DID share feelings in the low affection version, they just didn't match or they were feelings of friendship.... wouldn't that still make it non apathetic and meaningful?

Quexinos said:

Because of the page where it says there's two versions of the scene. They think this means it's telling us "this is optional"

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Where does it say that on the "For the one I love" page? Funny it says right there that the date scene is dependent on Clouds actions. But I see narry an option under the C/T highwind scene.

Where does it say that on the "For the one I love" page?

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It doesn't
And even if it did, it wouldn't change a thing.