Sorry, but no. Cait is a robot. The whole Toysaurus thing is just a cover story.
Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)
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Sorry, but no. Cait is a robot. The whole Toysaurus thing is just a cover story.
hian
Purist
The wearing of shades in dark areas has, to many, become equivalent with a movie or game "trying too hard to be cool". Ergo it's popular to criticize. To them, the shades ruin their immersion.
People have different tastes and hang-ups when it comes to what stylistic choices will ruin their immersion. For example there is a subset of people who won't stop commenting on how ridiculous the Buster Sword is and how it's penis compensation (cue Beavis & Butthead laughter). These people, out of the gate, are unlikely to even give FF7 a try.
Apart from the immersion aspect there is also the worry that Barret's eyes will be concealed for the whole game, solely for the sake of him looking cool. But I'm quite convinced that the shades won't stay on for long. If they do stay on, I will be disappointed.
I hope that the shades come off when Barret gets home to Marlene. Suddenly seeing the joyful eyes of a father would be a powerful contrast to all the preceding scenes with Barret. Then I visualize the shades going back on for the Mako Reactor #5 mission, then being discarded for the last time either during or after the deaths of Jessie, Biggs and Wedge.
What fascinates me that almost nobody, including myself, is bothered by the redesign of Barret's gun arm. His OG gun arm is so classic, yet the shades brought a ton of attention while we almost immediately accepted the remake version of his gatling gun.
The fact that original design continuity was ignored with Barret's gun is also a reason why I'm highly skeptical that Cloud's remake Buster Sword hides the golden hilt. The remake took the liberty of changing Barret's gatling gun, so why not change Cloud's sword (again) as well?
That said, I also wouldn't mind it if the winged-gold-hilt is re-introduced during the course of the FF7 remake, be it as a piece hiding beneath the bolted hilt or as a hilt resting at the site of an obscure swordsmith in the Midgar slums. Yes, I visualize the headcanon/speculation that Cloud visited a smith in the Midgar slums who made the bolted pauldron for Cloud and who also (may have) changed the hilt of the Buster Sword.
Time will tell...when and if these speculations get busterd.
^^^^All of this.^^^^
I'm kinda leaning towards thinking it would be cooler if Cloud did those modifications himself, back at the Avalanche hide-out - perhaps with Barret telling him he doesn't like how Cloud still dresses like he belongs with the Shinra. It would go some way to explain how clunky it all looks.
I also noticed the change to Barret's gun-arm, which was kinda off-putting to me. I'm not sure how they plan on handling equipment, change of weapons etc. or if they plan to have that at all, but I've never been a fan of starting stories out "big". I mean, what will Barret's next weapon be? A frickin tank barrel?
(also, as a side point on the realism thing - it's kinda silly that Barret wears shades, if it's a realism concern, but not some sort of protection for his ears. Having a gattling gun two feet in front of your face is not a recipe for good hearing.)
As for the buster sword - Yeah, it could just be a simple redesign. But, having the reveal of the older guard could be a good plot-point to reintroduce relevancy for the Buster Sword down the line, if like in the original, Cloud keeps changing swords.
It was always a pet peeve of me in the OG, that the Buster Sword was rendered completely irrelevant so early on in the game.
Having the Compilation Buster Sword make a come-back later on in the game, maybe with some sort of FFX's upgrade set-up to make it more powerful, could make it so it would make sense from a game-play perspective to use the sword again towards the end.
Of course, they could just remove optional weapons for Cloud as a thing, and have Cloud's weapon progression be centered solely around upgrades for the Buster Sword, but that would kinda be a shame from a presentational perspective. There's just something nice with being able to customize the look of a character and their equipment.
Mage
She/They
- AKA
- Mage
You're gonna need to start citing sources here rather than just disagreeing with me. That quote came from the game booklet. I know it's been a long time since I last played it but I don't recall it explicitly saying anywhere that Cait is a robot.
Claymore
3x3 Eyes
You're both right. I mean, the game trumps booklet information in terms of canonicity, but yeah. Heck, doesn't an ultimania somewhere throw another spanner in the works by giving Reeve some weird telekinetic and puppet-developing abilities?
Reeves / Cait Sith is one area that I would quite like them to develop more.
Heck, forget what he is ... I'm still having a hard time seeing him in this Remake.
Reeves / Cait Sith is one area that I would quite like them to develop more.
Heck, forget what he is ... I'm still having a hard time seeing him in this Remake.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Yeah, the lore is fucked where Reeve and Cait Sith are concerned. The cat is explicitly a robot in multiple entries (most obviously in Before Crisis, where the player's Turk has to reassemble it after it gets dismembered), but the matter is needlessly complicated by that magical "Inspire" stupidity.
But he and Dyne are so jacked in the first place because they were miners.
And isn't the gun arm thing already transformation enough? I know it seems a mundane detail for us after 20 years, but I expect the remake to really focus on this in some way.
But he and Dyne are so jacked in the first place because they were miners.
And isn't the gun arm thing already transformation enough? I know it seems a mundane detail for us after 20 years, but I expect the remake to really focus on this in some way.
leadmyskeptic
Pro Adventurer
The thing about considering Cait Sith as merely a robot, and not a semi-separate, 'magical' being is that (and I know this is one of the things that got lost in translation, so bear with me here) Cait Sith is demonstrated to an extent to have his own separate personality, unique from Reeve's. I know in the original Japanese, it was supposed to be something along the lines of Cait Sith speaking in a rural, sort-of 'chaotic' loose dialect whereas Reeve speaks and behaves like the executive he is. On top of this, you ALSO have the fact that immediately after Cait Sith's little sacrifice speech, where he mentions that even if another Cait Sith comes along it won't actually be the same as him, you have Cait Sith #2 appearing and speaking in a broad, southern (as in America) accent. Again, this shift couldn't have been what was intended in the original Japanese, but the two Cait Siths speaking differently SEEMS to have been. Now, you might just wager that Reeve is a highly devoted method actor who takes time to craft the personalities and speech patterns of his various...robots, and who knows, but presumably when the Shinra executives had him arrested, they searched him for remote controls for cats? Then again, they're not known to be the most careful.
AKA, Cait Sith is a clusterfuck. And I love it.
AKA, Cait Sith is a clusterfuck. And I love it.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Well, Reeve DOES put that accent on, as Scarlet calls him on it after the President's office is destroyed and he slips up, "What is it Reeve? You're speaking strangely."
But I agree that Cait Sith can also exist on his own, before the Inspire nonsense, I just always figured it was a robot with AI, but Reeve could directly take control when he saw fit to do so.
But I agree that Cait Sith can also exist on his own, before the Inspire nonsense, I just always figured it was a robot with AI, but Reeve could directly take control when he saw fit to do so.
Lestat
He/him
- AKA
- Ergo, V
I don't think it's hard to believe that cait sith has an independent thought process. When you think about it logically how exactly would reeve be able to control him all the time while still working within Shinra?
I always thought it more plausible that it ran with a sort of AI that reeve was the architect of but when he wasn't around it was free to make independent decisions.
I always thought it more plausible that it ran with a sort of AI that reeve was the architect of but when he wasn't around it was free to make independent decisions.
If I were to push for anything in this game to be delved deeper into, the concept of AI existing side-by-side with a culture that has an actual confirmed afterlife that people are aware of. That offers a lot of insight to a character like Cait Sith, especially if he does have an independent AI, and if said AI has to process the idea that Cait Sith 1.0 was his own independent AI as well.
How do you react if you have access to the same memories, but you didn't experience them yourself? Do you worry more about your own future, knowing that you won't live on the way a living entity will in the Lifestream? Do you have any stakes in the world, when you have no participation in it's cycle of life?
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Perhaps as worthy of consideration: would the possibility exist for you to become part of that cycle since memories=life, they can be copied/transferred as data, and that world's equivalent of the Internet can interface with the Lifestream via SND?
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Presumably Cait Sith is mako-powered in some way?
Lestat
He/him
- AKA
- Ergo, V
I think this discussion is straying away from the topic at hand. Maybe worthwhile splitting this into its own thread?
That said I genuinely expected more to have been dropped relating to the remake with the coming of the new year. I know kingdom hearts 3 is a definite drop for this year (he says optimistically) but this drip feeding screens is somewhat annoying.
That said I genuinely expected more to have been dropped relating to the remake with the coming of the new year. I know kingdom hearts 3 is a definite drop for this year (he says optimistically) but this drip feeding screens is somewhat annoying.
Shademp
420
I just now realized this is another Compilation reference I'd like to see in the remake.
It's already been long visualized in my head that the player might find obscure references by hacking into Scarlet's and/or Heidegger's computer(s). The player might then find references to Deepground, Tsviets, Synaptic Net Dives etc either as the names to folders that the player can't open, or as revealed keywords in encrypted documents that the player (or some tech-savvy NPC) have only managed to partially decrypt.
I picture these optional references being available either during the infiltration of Shinra HQ, the "disc 2" revisit to Midgar or after the fall of Shinra (or all of these aforementioned instances).
Teioh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Teiocho
I love the idea of optional references which observant players can kind of sniff out. I posted on tumblr last year about maybe being able to discover President Shinra's passcode as a nod to Episode Shinra (and as a Rufus Shinra fan, well I'd be delighted 
), just little random details that fans and players of the compilation can find and squeal nod sagely at. I'm totally relying on TLS to hunt them all down if they do exist 
), just little random details that fans and players of the compilation can find and 
Cat Rage Room
Great Old One
- AKA
- Mog
While the remake shoehorning in the Compilation in the main game would be a fucking pain in the ass, it would be irresponsible for them as writers and forming a narrative to just forget it exists entirely. I hate that shit; if you write something in a lore, follow through with it (and make it better) unless you consciously write it out. I'm fine with optional references in a larger world.
They have a loophole through Untrustworthy Narrator. For a large majority of the game, we look at the events through Cloud's eyes. Aside from cryptic existential break downs that have no context till Disc 2, we trust Cloud's knowledge to be true.
So until the we get to the Mideel arc, any and all compilation nods could be buried away along with the truth in Cloud's memories. We may not get any references till part III, at which point they would have played it safe by hooking in even the most die-hard anti-compilation people. It might piss them off when Golden Hilt, ShinRa Files, and Genesis Cameos come flying in part three and beyond, but at that point they'd be locked in, or at least have paid for 2/3rds of the franchise. Everything except for Cloud and Tifa being attacked by Genesis Clones and the Gold Hilt has been more or less carefully written to not conflict with the canon by killing off characters, sending them into hiding, or that ShinRa has a strangle hold on all information.
It'd be devious, but I'm not entirely sure Square would realize this opportunity is there. But they 'could' go this route, and build a LOT of material for the final part as both padding, and a reward for Compilation loyalists that would eagerly seek this material out.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
References have to be used very very sparingly IMO, it became a big problem for BC that it felt the need to reference everything.
Re Deepground, as someone that most likely loves Dirge more than most of you, I think it's better off left alone. Undermines the super secret nature of it to be able to say 'Oh, yeah, we stumbled across that completely by accident before, we just never bothered to bring it up.'
Re Deepground, as someone that most likely loves Dirge more than most of you, I think it's better off left alone. Undermines the super secret nature of it to be able to say 'Oh, yeah, we stumbled across that completely by accident before, we just never bothered to bring it up.'
Cat Rage Room
Great Old One
- AKA
- Mog
As opposed to the dozens of other super secrets that the party/player finds out during FFVII?
Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying. When I was a kid I was sold on the idea of secrets being so secret that nobody ever finds out but I think when I joined the Navy the concept fell apart as preposterous when you start seeing shit that's supposed to be SUPER SECRET accidentally divulged in emails, voicemail messages, slips of paper that people forget in the mess hall, divulged to their booty calls, etc etc.
I remember when the Deus Ex games came around. A lot of the games involve sneaking around and having to find passwords to computers, electronic locks, PIN numbers etc etc, and a lot of the solutions to said passports (if the player doesn't feel like hacking them) are found in game on notepads, emails, scribbled down on scraps of paper etc etc. A few players pointed out "Isn't that unrealistic that passwords to super secret shit are just found by the player by soda machines and shit" and the developers (and a few players) responded that no, people really do that.
Let me be another one to tell you; people really do that shit.
There's a lot of state secrets that a lot of people will never know, but almost nothing is that secret, especially if you're already in the position to find out secrets, (like naval personnel like myself dicking around), or the FFVII party.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
It's established that Vincent and Reeve specifically don't know about don't know about Deepground specifically. Plenty of people in the FFVII world might, but the FFVII do not. It's different with Genesis, nothing established during or after FFVII neccesitates that Cloud or anyone else can't know about him (and plenty of reason to be believe that he does).
Cat Rage Room
Great Old One
- AKA
- Mog
huh what???
Respectfully, I don't understand that sentence.
If what you're trying to say is that Vincent's and Reeve's ignorance of Deepground implies that the party of FFVII by extension also couldn't know about it, that doesn't mean that they couldn't include a reference.
The audience/player knows (or could know) about Deepground, and they could easily throw in a reference to Deepground that the party couldn't decipher but the player could.
References don't have to be as heavy handed as "HEY GUYS LOOK SOMETHING CALLED 'DEEPGROUND'S' A THING WE HAVEN'T HEARD ABOUT YET HUH HOW ABOUT THAT CLOUD ANYWAY TIME TO STOP SEPHIROTH"
Tashasaurous
Tash for Short
- AKA
- Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
I get what you mean, but I think what Minato is trying to say is neither of them knew about Deepground until Dirge of Cerberus is basically because the only people who truly know about all of that(and quite possibly Veld and some of the Turks) are the President, Scarlet, Heidegger and Hojo and they're pretty good in keeping dark secrets.
Heck, even Rufus probably didn't know any of that. Unless Cloud comes up with a single report in the ShinRa Manor briefly indicating Deepground and he'd be like, "Huh...I don't remember this. Probably another one of Hojo's secrets." or something like that, I doubt Deepground would be fully referenced in the remake.
The only thing I can think of closely related to Dirge of Cerberus is how Vincent would look when he transforms into Chaos. But just because players would know, doesn't mean the characters of both the original game and the remake would know, because the year is different.
We go back and forth through time in different perspectives with the characters also as viewers. FFVII world and the Compilation world are completely different compared to reality.
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