A question I've always had...what's up with the gay stuff?

[Alessa Gillespie]

pfah I don't know what you're talking about. I want to see Naked Snake and Ocelet get it on in all of their sweaty, manly, pistol whipping glory.

I also want to see Rydia have sex with Rosa. I see it as perfectly normal.

 

[Channy]

Rydia and Rosa would be hot.

 

[loverofCloud]

personally i don't see nothing beautiful seeing a character i like, with another man i mean if a character is gay that's fine,but if they are not why force them to be? it's like keep drawing someone with a different color of hairs or a different face despite how really it's been designed.. or at least from my point of view.

 

[Max Payne]

Your grammar is poor but your opinion is interesting.

 

[Torrie]

*phoenix down on the thread... woosh!*

I believe, the main reason girls are fond of shipping boys is the way they look at gay couples in general.

It goes back to the way a typical hetero relationship is seen in a conservative society. The toxic masculinity concept suggests that men have to be pick up masters and cocky bastards in order to attract a woman, as if we still live in the jungles, and be dominant and stoic in the relationship in order to be perceived as an unbreakable leader figure with the woman being "the weaker sex" and somewhat secondary.

In contrast, gay partners are often seen as someone equal who allow themselves to be sensitive, vulnerable, and weak, who seek comfort and want to comfort the other. In other words, gays appear more human than any average hetero alpha male could ever be. And that's what attracts girls who probably would like the same level of comfort and tenderness, but can't find it in their own relationship (if any) or see too many unhappy hetero couples around. A girl may either just enjoy looking at her (imaginary) gay couple and simply feel happy for them, or associate herself with one of the partners secretly imagining herself in his place. Additionally, girls may also be exploring their own sexuality to some extent.

TL;DR Girls love pairing boys because it gives them emotions they lack in real life.

As far as I'm concerned, well, I didn't use to understand a friend of mine who has written a ton of fanfiction shipping her favourite musicians, even though she's keen on exploring dark and angsty stuff. I never thought I would be genuinely interested in any imaginary gay couple myself. And then... Clack happened. Well, I may not enjoy reading or looking at blatant porn, but fluff stories about falling for each other and pictures of hugs, cuddles, and innocent kisses make my heart skip a beat. Do I lack some romance-coloured comfort in my life? I wonder...

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I've heard a lot of debate and analysis on this topic, but at the end of the day, it's ultimately a mystery. Probably every shipper's exact reason is unique. I don't know why I ship Tseng and Rufus except that they seem to belong to each other and have (or let's say could have) all kinds of fascinating power dynamics together. They're my OTP but also the only gay ship that I'm really invested in, and I was invested in it way before the Remake came along and threw us Tseng/Rufus shippers a bone. I also quite like Dimitri/Felix from FE3H. Aside from that all my main ships are het.

 

[Glaurung]

I once read a theory which asusred that it was a "safe" way for young girls to explore themes like love and sexuality while maintaining a distance, until they could understand their own bodies better.

I don't know how much water it might hold, and how many cases that might apply to, but it's true that, waaaaaaay back in the day I was a fan of yaoi and now... it simply doesn't click with me anymore.

It's also worthy of mention that many, way too many hetero pairing in fiction are based on abuse of any kind (from the man and from the woman). It's is from the man, it's in many cases about the woman's personal struggle to stop the domestic violence against her. If it's from the woman, it's about the man's plight when seeing himself in an infernal divorce with false accusations. It's a bit tiring to not being able to find almost any character in american media (and, by cultural contamination, in the rest of western media) who is happily married or that, at the very least, has the drive to stay in a relationship, whatever form it might take, long enough to count aniversaries with two hands.

And I shit you not, many an ultra feminist movement and their polar opposite twin (but basically the same), MGTOW, use that very same media of disaster marriages and voilence to nitpick scenes and made their respective cases against the other gender. Because we all know that Hollywood is an accurate image of our society

Oh, and don't forget the "romance" movies on which the female acts as a doormat as long as the male lead is rich/immortal and handsome

I don't know, yaoi's conflict is almost always about the pairing surviving societal conventions and their own demons, thus they might be seen in a much favorable light, maybe? At least one member of the couple is not always trying to dry the other from their money, or try to kill each other.

(Sorry if I spoke out of turn with this one. My knowledge of yaoi media is pretty limited and surely dated. I'm sure those themes are adressed by yaoi and yuri media, but I was talking about it in very broad strokes).

 

[Octo]

Yeah I heard the "heterosexual relationship dynamics suck so that's why yaoi is attractive to girls because it shows relationships on equal terms" argument.

Which I believe to be a crock because there's the seme/uke thing anyway so you never really escape an imbalance.

Furthermore why are imbalances seen as inherently bad? Sometimes a couple - probably the best couples - balance each other out in some way.

Plus in a fictional world where all sorts of crazy shit happens why is it outlandish for a decent writer to depict a evenly balanced hetero relationship that isn't toxic?

I find it kinda depressing that a lot of women (it seems) have to view their own sexuality through this prism that's divorced from their own bodies. Where I have enjoyed m/m pairings in the past it's mainly because I'd have liked to be the filling in that sandwich ?

 

[Erotic Materia]

Where I have enjoyed m/m pairings in the past it's mainly because I'd have liked to be the filling in that sandwich

And there it is

I don't really have anything constructive to add to the conversation except to say that on more than one occasion in my life, women have hinted at/outright said something to the effect of "It would be so hot if you and [male friend] made out/fucked/etc." Never quite understood it, but I guess if roles were reversed, I'd probably say exactly the same thing.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Let's just accept that this is a thing human beings like and move on.

I have returned to add this edit: one interesting fact, maybe, is that a lot of lesbian authors seem to like writing m/m fic. Obvious something is going on there beyond mere sexual wish fulfilment. I think?

 

[Rydeen]

There is no one reason why a thing is a thing.

I'll just speak to my personal experience; a bit of an extreme example. I’m not into yaoi/gay sex the way I used to be (I still have m/m ships, but it's not like it used to be). This shift happened after my first relationship, so I think a disconnect with my body had something to do with the fixation. The thoughts still cross my mind, but now it's usually in the context of threesomes. I sort of see this as a good thing, because from 13-20 I really did have a profound disconnect with my own body and even mind - I felt like a third party observer of myself. I had little interest in straight stuff, and would actively avoid thinking about my own anatomy.

I also grew pretty tried of the seme/uke dynamic, much in the same way that gender roles have always annoyed me. If something leans too heavily into that dynamic, I kind of roll my eyes and walk away, because I like things to be more nuanced than that, both socially and sexually.

The things that had appealed to me about yaoi at the time were:

• Male/female gender roles seemed to be worse back then, and I wanted to escape the suffocatingly narrow and tired depictions of straight relationships and sex
• I was excessively squicked out by female anatomy, probably due to the aforementioned dissociation
• I didn't like being reminded of being female and it made me a bit closed minded/stunted in certain ways
• The fact that virtually all straight porn/fanart back then was made for straight men, which generally focuses too minimally on the man for me to really enjoy, and they always have the same body type

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Yes that seme/uke thing is boring

 

[Rydeen]

Yes that seme/uke thing is boring

It's just so overused. And often inaccurate to real gay relationships!

Relationships and sex are so much more interesting to me when they are not subject to static stereotypes, and evolve as a dynamic. I've also found that power play is a lot more interesting to me when it is fluid.

 

[Odysseus]

I don't think Yaoi set out to be accurate to any real relationship standards. I know my gay friends don't have massive hands, for one.

 

[Rydeen]

I don't think Yaoi set out to be accurate to any real relationship standards. I know my gay friends don't have massive hands, for one.

For sure. It doesn't have to, because it's just wish fulfillment, and people should be able to distinguish fiction from reality. I just personally tend to find it less interesting now.

 

[Cat on Mars]

It doesn't have to, because it's just wish fulfillment, and people should be able to distinguish fiction from reality. I just personally tend to find it less interesting now.

It's fiction, people should be able to get more creative and make more interesting dynamics between characters.
Personally, the seme-uke dynamic bores me and I was never a fan.

 

[Rydeen]

It's like they've never heard of power bottoms either

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't think Yaoi set out to be accurate to any real relationship standards. I know my gay friends don't have massive hands, for one.

Or maybe they're growers, not show-ers?

 

[Cat on Mars]

In general, I don't really like categorizing people or characters as "top", "bottom" or "switch". Why people must label everything?

It's like they've never heard of power bottoms either

Power bottoms are annoying af.

 

[ForceStealer]

seme/uke dynamic

Yes that seme/uke thing is boring

I know google can tell me, but I'm sitting here trying to guess just what this term could possibly mean.

In general, I don't really like categorizing people or characters as "top", "bottom" or "switch". Why people must label everything?

I have always wondered if the people that apply such labels actually only ever had or wished to have sex in exactly the same way each time.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I have always wondered if the people that apply such labels actually only ever had or wished to have sex in exactly the same way each time.

Not necessarily. There's numerous ways to submit or dominate, for instance, and not at all odd to be uninterested in switching overall roles.

 

[Cat on Mars]

I know google can tell me, but I'm sitting here trying to guess just what this term could possibly mean.

Seme/uke means Top/bottom in weeb.
For a boring and pointless explanation, you can find articles.

I have always wondered if the people that apply such labels actually only ever had or wished to have sex in exactly the same way each time

No idea. I know these terms originated in the gay scene and gay bath houses decades ago, so they were useful back then, in that very specific context.
Today is pretty meaningless, and I assume most people who use them out of gay dating apps or shipping are either virgins, people in BDSM relationships or very boring people (or a combination of them).

not at all odd to be uninterested in switching.

Yes, that's my definition of sex.
EDIT: that was a joke people.

 

[Erotic Materia]

either virgins, people in BDSM relationships or very boring people (or a combination of them).

Now I'm curious what a virgin BDSM couple looks like.

... Probably pretty boring.

 

[Cat on Mars]

Now I'm curious what a virgin BDSM couple looks like.

They roleplay online.
So yeah, pretty boring.

 

[Odysseus]

They roleplay online.
So yeah, pretty boring.

┴┬┴┤･ω･)ﾉ
*sneak up behind cat*

"Surpwiiiiise! "

*pounces* ☆ﾐ(o*･ω･)ﾉ

"I got u now OwO"

*ties cat alllll up in tiwght wopes*

"Now teh fun begins UwU'