About "G" from DoC and FFVII... (spoilers)

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Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
#76
Instinct is more a physical/chemical response to one’s environment than it is a property of the mind. The Reunion instinct is not dependent on any sort of intelligence or sentience. As long as a cell is alive it will act based on its instinct.
That instinct is based on the whole, what is there to bring them together without Jenova itself? What good are the cells without Jenova?
Well the UOG does say that it could certainly happen sooner or later as long as living J-cells exist, and there are still plenty out there.
Didn't it call those cells its flesh at the same time? What is there to be a Reunion of without Jenova herself?

That is incredibly inconsistant, I think you are underestimating what Sephiroth is capable of.
You say that I underestimate him but that the same time you call him lazy?
He let the Lifestream absorb them.
That makes no sense. He himself says that he feels the lifestream eroding himself, trying to dissolve him into the whole. Why would he give up his own memories when he has need of them? He discarded a lot of his memories during meteorfall, not during his time in the lifestream. The Lifestream was trying to diffuse him.
No, what you are saying makes no sense because he gained the Knowledge of the Ancients and other random memories from the Lifestream. Why couldn't he go and recover his own memories?
Then why would he not recover his own? Saying he's too lazy makes no sense. He has nothing better to do in the Lifestream.
 
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Makoeyes987

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Smooth Criminal
#77
Hell, if YOU read it, you'll note that he re-gained his memories when he reformed! If he DID return to the planet, he'd most likely do it COMPLETELY IN TACT. Which means, he wouldn't necessarily even NEED a crazy-ass plot device to reform.
No, he didn't. He discarded most of his memories during Meteorfall and sacrificed them for the prospect of not diffusing. He returned his memories to the planet. All he said was, "As my servants are looking for Mother, if they come across someone who knows me, then from that spirit I can learn of who I once was. And with Mother’s further assistance, I can become fully real. Even if there’s something lacking, it doesn’t matter." If he has to "learn" who he once was, then clearly something was lost. He doesn't come back from the lifestream in tact, at all. That's ridiculous.

That is incredibly inconsistant, I think you are underestimating what Sephiroth is capable of.

He let the Lifestream absorb them.
Yeah..he let the lifestream absorb them, so he could retain what semblance of himself he had before he diffused into the lifestream. Did you not read how he felt the lifestream eroding his spirit? He had no choice. He couldn't just keep all of his spirit in tact. If he could, he would've. He could only hold onto a core of his identity. You make no sense. Why would he put himself at such a disadvantage and loss of his own self, if he were easily capable of keeping his memories and regaining them?

No, what you are saying makes no sense because he gained the Knowledge of the Ancients and other random memories from the Lifestream. Why couldn't he go and recover his own memories?
Probably because of the same reason he couldn't remember what he looked like. The planet stole those memories away. It was diffused into the lifestream.

Well, Jenovas cells don't get obliterated into nothing? Right?
Uh, yeah they do. What do you think Aerith's holy water did?
 

Andalegogo

Rueful Figure
#78
Dacon said:
That instinct is based on the whole, what is there to bring them together without Jenova itself? What good are the cells without Jenova?
Iunno, sometimes instinct can be built right into the genes, which each of the cells would have. Jenova's freaky enough to have it that way from what I've seen.

Didn't it call those cells its flesh at the same time?
Cells....Flesh....it always comes down to single fucking words. EVERYTHING hinging on a single fucking word.....
 

Neo Bahamut

Omnipotent Jackass
AKA
Lithp, Unholy Quadralateral
#79
Do you need a direct quote about everything stated in the story. Where's the evidence that says Sephiroth is NOT gone for good? Where's the evidence that says Sephiroth's will remains anywhere?
Everything I post is being brushed off with very little thought. The only thing that will settle this is a quote.

Besides, there's no evidence for Sephiroth's will being destroyed. TRY to understand: You're taking story elements & INTERPRETING them as saying that. That does not mean that they do.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
#80
Iunno, sometimes instinct can be built right into the genes, which each of the cells would have. Jenova's freaky enough to have it that way from what I've seen.

Cells....Flesh....it always comes down to single fucking words. EVERYTHING hinging on a single fucking word.....
They say "flesh" in Japanese.

Reunion

「 FFVII – AC 」

One of the properties Jenova possesses is that separated pieces of flesh, called cells, will regenerate back to their original form - working toward the phenomenon of reunification. This is shown by instance(s) when both Jenova, who is practically close to immortal, and the son whom should be called Sephiroth, are resurrected sooner or later even after being destroyed.
A few scattered cells in people with a strong enough will who are healthy and alive aren't going to feel any pull of Reunion. Especially with the head being destroyed and Sephiroth dead.
 
#81
If Sephiroth's will hadn't been destroyed he would've still been there. Cloud couldn't have destroyed him, or even if he could, people would still have Geostigma.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#82
Everything I post is being brushed off with very little thought. The only thing that will settle this is a quote.

Besides, there's no evidence for Sephiroth's will being destroyed. TRY to understand: You're taking story elements & INTERPRETING them as saying that. That does not mean that they do.
Sephiroth's negative lifestream is created and born from Sephiroth's will. His will and spirit energy created it. The Negative Lifestream disappeared at the end of ACC when Cloud destroyed him and Aerith's Great Gospel rain fell on the city.

What more fucking proof do you need? He's referred to as defeated and vanished. Geostigma is said to be cured. How much more proof do you need? Where's your evidence that says anything about him being alive? How about you post yours, and I'll list you every reference to him being gone?
 
#83
Do you need a direct quote about everything stated in the story. Where's the evidence that says Sephiroth is NOT gone for good? Where's the evidence that says Sephiroth's will remains anywhere?

I've already explained like 4 posts ago. Where's your contrary evidence, other than your adamant disbelief?

So where are the cells, after Sephiroth died? And why didn't a Reunion occur before Sephiroth decided to gain control of her remaining body and invoke it?
Considering Sephiroth has kept his Will in tact several times when his physical body was destroyed should easily be enough evidence for everyone.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#84
No, he only did that once. After FFVII. It'd be nice if you got your facts straight. His body was only destroyed when he was defeated as Safer Sephiroth. So your evidence is invalid.
 
#85
No, he didn't. He discarded most of his memories during Meteorfall and sacrificed them for the prospect of not diffusing. He returned his memories to the planet. All he said was, "As my servants are looking for Mother, if they come across someone who knows me, then from that spirit I can learn of who I once was. And with Mother’s further assistance, I can become fully real. Even if there’s something lacking, it doesn’t matter." If he has to "learn" who he once was, then clearly something was lost. He doesn't come back from the lifestream in tact, at all. That's ridiculous.

Yeah..he let the lifestream absorb them, so he could retain what semblance of himself he had before he diffused into the lifestream. Did you not read how he felt the lifestream eroding his spirit? He had no choice. He couldn't just keep all of his spirit in tact. If he could, he would've. He could only hold onto a core of his identity. You make no sense. Why would he put himself at such a disadvantage and loss of his own self, if he were easily capable of keeping his memories and regaining them?

Probably because of the same reason he couldn't remember what he looked like. The planet stole those memories away. It was diffused into the lifestream.

Uh, yeah they do. What do you think Aerith's holy water did?
"The man could sense the Lifestream trying to erode his spirit"

What? Are we even reading the same thing here?

Who knows, but I see no mention of him not having a choice in letting his memories go. Geez, why can he gain the Knowledge of the Ancients and random memories but he can't re-gain his own memories?

When did the planet steal any memories away?

"the man had already surrendered his inconsequential memories to the planet."

Also, I have no idea how the spell healed Geostigma, where did you get your information on how it was healed?

No, he only did that once. After FFVII. It'd be nice if you got your facts straight. His body was only destroyed when he was defeated as Safer Sephiroth. So your evidence is invalid.
What? His original physical body was destroyed, and he kept his spirit and will in tact while traversing the Lifestream learning about his real history and the Knowledge of the Ancients. Are you seriously telling me to get my facts straight when you are clearly not taking into account 90% of them?
 
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Makoeyes987

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Smooth Criminal
#86
"The man could sense the Lifestream trying to erode his spirit"

What? Are we even reading the same thing here?
"Trying" in the sense that it actually was in the process of doing it. Not that it was failing. Again, learn to understand context. If it was failing, why would Sephiroth need to hold onto a core of his being in order to survive within the Lifestream? Why would he surrender his memories? Why would he have to accept that he'd have to "learn" who he was in order to fully remember his identity? What would be the point?

Who knows, but I see no mention of him not having a choice in letting his memories go. Geez, why can he gain the Knowledge of the Ancients and random memories but he can't re-gain his own memories?
Because he was fucking *alive* and had a body when he was in the lifestream the first time and was capable of absorbing the knowledge into himself. When he DIED and had no physical form, HIS spirit energy was diffused into the current and thus he lost his memories. Get the situation straight.

When did the planet steal any memories away?

"the man had already surrendered his inconsequential memories to the planet."





What? His original physical body was destroyed, and he kept his spirit and will in tact while traversing the Lifestream learning about his real history and the Knowledge of the Ancients. Are you seriously telling me to get my facts straight when you are clearly not taking into account 90% of them?
No, it was not. It was heavily damaged but he regenerated it in the Northern Crater. He lost his legs and lower half, but he restored them through the power of Jenova.

Reunion Files page 60 said:
After plunging himself into a mako reactor just outside Nibelheim, Sephiroth's body was diffused into the flow, but drifted to the Northern Crater and reunited there due to his strong will.
10th Anniversary Sephiroth profile said:
As for Sephiroth’s true self, when he fell inside the Nibel Mako Reactor it dissolved in the Lifestream, but over the course of five years his body reconstructed itself in the Northern Crater where the Lifestream concentrates as he bided his time for his revival.
 
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#87
"Trying" in the sense that it actually was in the process of doing it. Not that it was failing. Again, learn to understand context. If it was failing, why would Sephiroth need to hold onto a core of his being in order to survive within the Lifestream? Why would he surrender his memories? Why would he have to accept that he'd have to "learn" who he was in order to fully remember his identity? What would be the point?

Because he was fucking *alive* and had a body when he was in the lifestream the first time and was capable of absorbing the knowledge into himself. When he DIED and had no physical form, HIS spirit energy was diffused into the current and thus he lost his memories. Get the situation straight.

No, it was not. It was heavily damaged but he regenerated it in the Northern Crater. He lost his legs and lower half, but he restored them through the power of Jenova.
I am only reading it for what it says, not taking any more out of it than it says. Nowhere did it say he had to hold on to his core being to survive being in the Lifestream. But he did spread his memories to spread Geostigma.

How does one have a body in the Lifestream? Considering the Lifestream can take out Holy and Meteor. I thought the only reason Cloud was able to keep his body was because of Aeris protecting him.

Huh? I thought he was restoring himself using Jenova cells? From scratch? Please show me where you get this information.

Lol, you just proved my point including those quotes, his physical body was basically destroyed = / 'diffused' or 'dissolved'. What those Quotes say directly opposes your 'view' of things.
 
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Makoeyes987

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Smooth Criminal
#88
Jesus. How do you construe him not needing a core of himself to remain whole when it says:

The man could sense the Lifestream trying to erode his spirit– the memories of his former experiences, thoughts and emotions. If he allowed himself be taken into the current, the being he once was would soon disseminate and disappear amongst the spirit energy cycling around the planet. The man thought this unacceptable. The planet was to be his to rule, and to become a part of that system would be nothing short of defeat...The man knew that if one could hold onto some core of their spirit, then one could remain a separate entity, independent from the planet’s system.
He did that out of necessity. Why else would he have done it?

How does one have a body in the Lifestream? Considering the Lifestream can take out Holy and Meteor. I thought the only reason Cloud was able to keep his body was because of Aeris protecting him.
Sephiroth's BODY fell into the mako reactor. Did you not read? I'll post it again.


Reunion Files page 60 said:
After plunging himself into a mako reactor just outside Nibelheim, Sephiroth's body was diffused into the flow, but drifted to the Northern Crater and reunited there due to his strong will.
10th Anniversary Sephiroth profile said:
As for Sephiroth’s true self, when he fell inside the Nibel Mako Reactor it dissolved in the Lifestream, but over the course of five years his body reconstructed itself in the Northern Crater where the Lifestream concentrates as he bided his time for his revival.


That's his body. Physical matter can exist within the lifestream when it falls into it.

And Aerith had nothing to fucking due with Cloud surviving within the lifestream. Where did you hear that?
 
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#89
Jesus. How do you construe him not needing a core of himself to remain whole when it says:

He did that out of necessity. Why else would he have done it?

Sephiroth's BODY fell into the mako reactor. Did you not read? I'll post it again.




That's his body. Physical matter can exist within the lifestream when it falls into it.

And Aerith had noting to fucking due with Cloud surviving within the lifestream. Where did you hear that?
I didn't say that, I just said he didn't need to do it, and I don't know why he did it. But in the exact same text he shows the ability to garner other random memories and hold onto them. = /

Hm, nope I can't read at all. You don't seem to be a very nice person. El oh El his physical body was destroyed when he fell into the Lifestream, it was dissolved \ diffused. His physical body didn't exist as a physical body once it fell into the Lifestream until it was re-assembled at the Northern Crater!

I think I read it in Maiden of the Planet or some such thing. Although I don't know if that is canon.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#90
I didn't say that, I just said he didn't need to do it, and I don't know why he did it. But in the exact same text he shows the ability to garner other random memories and hold onto them. = /
Yeah, that makes no logical sense at all. He had to do it because it was beyond his choice and necessary to remain complete somewhat. Again, put forth some evidence and logic to back up your assertion. If he could've just remained whole, why did he let go of his memories and reduce himself to a shell of a spirit?

Hm, nope I can't read at all. You don't seem to be a very nice person. El oh El his physical body was destroyed when he fell into the Lifestream, it was dissolved \ diffused. His physical body didn't exist as a physical body once it fell into the Lifestream until it was re-assembled at the Northern Crater!
Yeah, okay, chief. And it wasn't completely destroyed, again. Read the text.

Reunion Files said:
After plunging himself into a mako reactor just outside Nibelheim, Sephiroth's body was diffused into the flow, but drifted to the Northern Crater and reunited there due to his strong will.
If it didn't exist, how could it have drifted and reunite at the Northern Crater? It was destroyed and partially diffused (as shown by the missing legs) but portions of it still existed and thus were able to "reunite" and start regenerating. How could he regenerate his physical form if not single piece of it remained?

I think I read it in Maiden of the Planet or some such thing. Although I don't know if that is canon.
Maiden isn't canon, and even in the novella, Aerith wasn't able of getting involved in Cloud's search for himself. All she could do was watch.

Oh, and because I forgot to address this.

Nolok said:
Also, I have no idea how the spell healed Geostigma, where did you get your information on how it was healed?
Did you forget the part of the movie that showed Aerith's healing water cleansing the Geostigma on Cloud's arm and the children....and how Sephiroth said "Your Geostigma is gone. That's too bad."?
 
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#91
Yeah, that makes no logical sense at all. He had to do it because it was beyond his choice and necessary to remain complete somewhat. Again, put forth some evidence and logic to back up your assertion. If he could've just remained whole, why did he let go of his memories and reduce himself to a shell of a spirit?

Yeah, okay, chief. And it wasn't completely destroyed, again. Read the text.

If it didn't exist, how could it have drifted and reunite at the Northern Crater? It was destroyed and partially diffused (as shown by the missing legs) but portions of it still existed and thus were able to "reunite" and start regenerating. How could he regenerate his physical form if not single piece of it remained?

Maiden isn't canon, and even in the novella, Aerith wasn't able of getting involved in Cloud's search for himself. All she could do was watch.

Yeah, didn't think so. So how come Clouds body didn't dissolve \ diffuse?

Oh, and because I forgot to address this.

Did you forget the part of the movie that showed Aerith's healing water cleansing the Geostigma on Cloud's arm and the children....and how Sephiroth said "Your Geostigma is gone. That's too bad."?
I thought he just let go of memories he didn't want or need? inconsequential.

It would be VERY inconsistant if he HAD to because it clearly states that he can find and use OTHER RANDOM MEMORIES. Seriously.

The text says it was dissolved \ diffused:

Dissolved: that has been disintegrated in a solvent \ (of solid matter) reduced to a liquid form;

Diffused: Molecular diffusion, often called simply diffusion, is a net transport of molecules from a region of higher concentration to one of lower concentration by random molecular motion. The result of diffusion is a gradual mixing of material.

I didn't say it didn't exist, stop putting words in my mouth. YOU say partially whereas the text doesn't say that, you are making things up. How big are those portions? I would assume they would be around a molecular level, considering the pure destructive force that the Lifestream can be. He couldn't, but he can manipulate Jenova cells etc.

What does this have to do with the healing water obliterating Jenova Cells? I told you I had no idea and you give me an ambiguous statement that most people would already know.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#92
I thought he just let go of memories he didn't want or need? inconsequential.

It would be VERY inconsistant if he HAD to because it clearly states that he can find and use OTHER RANDOM MEMORIES. Seriously.
No, it doesn't say that. It said

As my servants are looking for Mother, if they come across someone who knows me, then from that spirit I can learn of who I once was.
Where does it say he can use other random memories? Quote please.

The text says it was dissolved \ diffused:

Dissolved: that has been disintegrated in a solvent \ (of solid matter) reduced to a liquid form;

Diffused: Molecular diffusion, often called simply diffusion, is a net transport of molecules from a region of higher concentration to one of lower concentration by random molecular motion. The result of diffusion is a gradual mixing of material.
Yeah, ok. You can quote a dictionary, good for you. They mean in the context of it simply melting away. His body partially dissolved but again..it reformed itself back and regenerated.

I didn't say it didn't exist, stop putting words in my mouth. YOU say partially whereas the text doesn't say that, you are making things up. How big are those portions? I would assume they would be around a molecular level, considering the pure destructive force that the Lifestream can be. He couldn't, but he can manipulate Jenova cells etc.
Read this again. And focus this time.

Sephiroth's body was diffused into the flow, but drifted to the Northern Crater and reunited there due to his strong will.
Now if it diffused completely into the lifestream..there would be nothing at all left TO drift to the Northern Crater. Use common sense. If there was a portion of his body to reunite..that mean it didn't completely dissolve. If it was completely dissolved at the molecular level, then that means it would essentially be gone. There would be nothing left as it would have filtered and become one with the lifestream. He needed the power of the Northern Crater's lifestream AND Jenova cells to regenerate. If he was completely evaporated at the molecular level then there would be no way for him to control where he drifted and thus he'd just be scattered across the planet.

What does this have to do with the healing water obliterating Jenova Cells? I told you I had no idea and you give me an ambiguous statement that most people would already know.
....It means she cured Geostigma by destroying the Jenova cells within the body. What else could it mean?
 
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#93
No, it doesn't say that. It said



Where does it say he can use other random memories? Quote please.


Yeah, ok. You can quote a dictionary, good for you. They mean in the context of it simply melting away. His body partially dissolved but again..it reformed itself back and regenerated.

Read this again. And focus this time.

Now if it diffused completely into the lifestream..there would be nothing at all left TO drift to the Northern Crater. Use common sense. If there was a portion of his body to reunite..that mean it didn't completely dissolve. If it was completely dissolved at the molecular level, then that means it would essentially be gone. There would be nothing left as it would have filtered and become one with the lifestream.

....It means she cured Geostigma by destroying the Jenova cells within the body. What else could it mean?
It states here he surrendered memories that were unimportant to him, that may have also been his appearence.

"the man had already surrendered his inconsequential memories to the planet. Memories from when he was a boy, of his few friends, of the battles when he was still unaware, of his life in bygone days."


Here he retrieves a random memory for him to use from the Lifestream

"So the man found memories of a suitable appearance from the Lifestream, and with that form produced an image."

What context? No you are just reading what you want to read, I am reading what is actually there. They didn't say partially dissolved at all. It only reformed at the northern crater from my understanding.

Lol, what exactly would stop him from re-uniting molecular levels of his body? I am not disputing there were portions of his body, just that seeing as he was dissolved \ diffused the portions were very VERY small. =-) Why would they not drift, even at a molecular level? As far as I knew the Lifestream contained memories, knowledge and experiences not physical matter (Although can be infected by Jenova Cells).

Firstly, what was the main cause of Geostigma? You are implying it is the Jenova cells, however I was under the impression it was the body trying to eradicate the cells. Considering that, wouldn't Aeris have to stop the body trying to win a losing fight?

Unless you have some kind of evidence to support your claim either could be true.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
#94
It states here he surrendered memories that were unimportant to him, that may have also been his appearence.

"the man had already surrendered his inconsequential memories to the planet. Memories from when he was a boy, of his few friends, of the battles when he was still unaware, of his life in bygone days."
Yeah. He let them go. He focused on holding onto his core and with that he let go of the memories that wouldn't serve in his resurrection. Do you not see the trade off? He's focusing all he has on the core of his hatred while letting the lifestream take everything that he feels is inconsequential. Again..if he could have everything WHY would he let it go? Why would he render himself incomplete? You have yet to give a logical answer, and its getting ridiculous.


Here he retrieves a random memory for him to use from the Lifestream

"So the man found memories of a suitable appearance from the Lifestream, and with that form produced an image."
That's not him pulling his own memory out of the lifestream. Of course he'd be able to pull a random memory out of the lifestream which is composed of it . But the point I was making, was that he surrendered and lost his OWN memories which diffused into the lifestream. He's surrounded by memories of the dead. How does that prove he'd be able to hold onto his own without the lifestream diffusing them away?

What context? No you are just reading what you want to read, I am reading what is actually there. They didn't say partially dissolved at all. It only reformed at the northern crater from my understanding.
It HAD to have partially dissolve because if it completely dissolved there'd be nothing left. If you dissolve salt in water, then the water becomes SALT WATER and no physical remains of salt exist within the liquid. If Sephiroth's body completely dissolved, there'd be no way for it to DRIFT (like a physical object drifts in water) to the northern crater and reassemble itself.

Lol, what exactly would stop him from re-uniting molecular levels of his body? I am not disputing there were portions of his body, just that seeing as he was dissolved \ diffused the portions were very VERY small. =-) Why would they not drift, even at a molecular level? As far as I knew the Lifestream contained memories, knowledge and experiences not physical matter (Although can be infected by Jenova Cells).
diffused molecules of his body wouldn't drift towards the Northern Crater. They'd be completely absorbed by the planet and diffused around the planet. And yes, the lifestream can contain physical matter. Cloud drifted in it and ended up at Mideel. Cloud and Tifa existed within it before washing back ashore.

Sephiroth required the power of the lifestream AND Jenova cells to regenerate himself. That's why he went to the Northern Crater in the first place. If he were nothing but molecules he'd never be able to regenerate because he'd have no way of controlling and drifting towards the Northern Crater in the first place. He needed a piece of himself to start with.
 
#95
Yeah. He let them go. He focused on holding onto his core and with that he let go of the memories that wouldn't serve in his resurrection. Do you not see the trade off? He's focusing all he has on the core of his hatred while letting the lifestream take everything that he feels is inconsequential. Again..if he could have everything WHY would he let it go? Why would he render himself incomplete? You have yet to give a logical answer, and its getting ridiculous.
To be honest I thought he done it because he didn't want or thought he didn't need them. I find that a logical enough answer, considering we have no further proof as to why he did it.

That's not him pulling his own memory out of the lifestream. Of course he'd be able to pull a random memory out of the lifestream which is composed of it . But the point I was making, was that he surrendered and lost his OWN memories which diffused into the lifestream. He's surrounded by memories of the dead. How does that prove he'd be able to hold onto his own without the lifestream diffusing them away?
Obviously this is proof that if he wants he can easily find memories and keep them to use them. Keeping that memory would be exactly the same as keeping his own memories. What would stop him from finding his own memories in exactly the same manner?

It HAD to have partially dissolve because if it completely dissolved there'd be nothing left. If you dissolve salt in water, then the water becomes SALT WATER and no physical remains of salt exist within the liquid. If Sephiroth's body completely dissolved, there'd be no way for it to DRIFT (like a physical object drifts in water) to the northern crater and reassemble itself.
Do you have any proof that it 'HAD' to be partially dissolved? Your analogy is wrong to what you were trying to get, you can seperate salt from salt water, maybe this is the same as the Lifestream and dissolved physical matter. Yes it could, the actual Lifestream itself is always flowing, anything 'dissolved' in it could easily drift along with it.

diffused molecules of his body wouldn't drift towards the Northern Crater. They'd be completely absorbed by the planet and diffused around the planet. And yes, the lifestream can contain physical matter. Cloud drifted in it and ended up at Mideel. Cloud and Tifa existed within it before washing back ashore.
No no, you missed what I was saying, what I was saying is that I thought physical matter could not actually become a part of the Lifestream (Which Cloud and Tifa did not become). Just like Sephiroths diffused or dissolved body, it would always be seperate from the Lifestream and drift along with it.

Sephiroth required the power of the lifestream AND Jenova cells to regenerate himself. That's why he went to the Northern Crater in the first place. If he were nothing but molecules he'd never be able to regenerate because he'd have no way of controlling and drifting towards the Northern Crater in the first place. He needed a piece of himself to start with.
What is to say he didn't start with one molecule? Where are you getting your information on the limits on what he can control? Considering he was able to get Jenova cells within people to regenerate why couldn't he use molecular levels of his own body? And that piece was diffused \ dissolved in the Lifestream, prove me wrong.
 

Dark and Divine

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D&D
#96
To be honest I thought he done it because he didn't want or thought he didn't need them. I find that a logical enough answer, considering we have no further proof as to why he did it.
He surrendered these memories to the Lifestream because he decided to focus the essence of his being in the strongest feeling he had - his hatred towards Cloud- in order to avoid his diffusion in the flow.

Obviously this is proof that if he wants he can easily find memories and keep them to use them. Keeping that memory would be exactly the same as keeping his own memories. What would stop him from finding his own memories in exactly the same manner?
Because the memory he used to create Kadaj was right there for the taking. To take back his memories, Sephiroth would have to search for them in the Lifestream, wich would be a waste of time if he could restore them through Cloud.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#97
To be honest I thought he done it because he didn't want or thought he didn't need them. I find that a logical enough answer, considering we have no further proof as to why he did it.
That significantly weakened him. Why would he surrender his own memories when he needs them to be complete, and it resulted in him not even being able to remember what he looked like? If his goal is to come back and be reborn, why would he purposefully hinder himself?



Obviously this is proof that if he wants he can easily find memories and keep them to use them. Keeping that memory would be exactly the same as keeping his own memories. What would stop him from finding his own memories in exactly the same manner?
Again. The passage:

As my servants are looking for Mother, if they come across someone who knows me, then from that spirit I can learn of who I once was. And with Mother’s further assistance, I can become fully real.
demonstrates that, it is not that simple. He'd have to learn it all over again. Finding his own memories within the lifestream isn't possible.



Do you have any proof that it 'HAD' to be partially dissolved? Your analogy is wrong to what you were trying to get, you can seperate salt from salt water, maybe this is the same as the Lifestream and dissolved physical matter. Yes it could, the actual Lifestream itself is always flowing, anything 'dissolved' in it could easily drift along with it.
Yeah..by evaporating all the water. But you can't really do that with the lifestream can you? :awesome:

The proof is common sense. You can't regenerate from a single cell. It requires FLESH for the Reunion to occur.

Reunion

「 FFVII – AC 」

One of the properties Jenova possesses is that separated pieces of flesh, called cells, will regenerate back to their original form - working toward the phenomenon of reunification. This is shown by instance(s) when both Jenova, who is practically close to immortal, and the son whom should be called Sephiroth, are resurrected sooner or later even after being destroyed.
http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/220/final-fantasy-vii-series-terms-and-definitions/

And right next to that definition is a picture of Sephiroth...in the Northern Crater...regenerating in FFVII. It's describing exactly what Sephiroth did. He regenerated from a piece of his flesh...his torso. If he only PARTIALLY dissolved, then the entirety of his body didn't dissolve away. A portion of it survived, meaning it wasn't completely reduced to nothing. Jenova doesn't just start cell by cell in the Reunion. That's ridiculous.




What is to say he didn't start with one molecule? Where are you getting your information on the limits on what he can control? Considering he was able to get Jenova cells within people to regenerate why couldn't he use molecular levels of his own body? And that piece was diffused \ dissolved in the Lifestream, prove me wrong.
When did he get Jenova cells out of people?
 

Andalegogo

Rueful Figure
#98
Mako Eyes said:
They say "flesh" in Japanese.
What is the actual Japanese term being used? One Japanese term can mean many things, and in most cases the definition would be entirely dependent on the context in which it is being used.

"Parts", "flesh", and "cells" all appear to be synonymous when applied in English. The UOG entries I cited specifically refer to individual cells, which can regenerate and reunite to form larger parts or junks of flesh, as we see from the FF7 boss fights with Jenova's "parts".

A few scattered cells in people with a strong enough will who are healthy and alive aren't going to feel any pull of Reunion. Especially with the head being destroyed and Sephiroth dead.
I understand this, but not everyone in FF7 has a strong will. There are people with a weak sense of self who might be affected by the individual cells in their bodies over time.

As was cited, the individual cells are endowed with the instinct. It's in their genetic makeup. They don't need to be able to think about it or be whole, because that's the point of the Reunion: allowing the separated parts/flesh/cells to become whole again, making Jenova practically immortal.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#99
The translation is clear. It refers to it as "Flesh" which are called "cells" (saibo) by people. Read it for yourself. I'm not understanding what's hard to understand when it was translated by site staff here who know Japanese. It takes more than just one individual microscopic cell to move and call for the Reunion. It takes a piece of the main body to facilitate the joining of the smaller pieces. Which is why the Reunion's center was Sephiroth and the Head.

And the only time people would succumb to Jenova's will and be controlled is if they're mako poisoned and rendered vegetables. As shown in the Sephiroth Copy Project. When Hojo just injected himself directly with Jenova, he kept his identity but only mutated.
 
Well the term "saibou" is used loosely enough to allow the terms of flesh/parts/cells basically the same meaning, which can range from whole hunks of flesh to microscopic organisms.

There's just not enough reason to say that whole hunks of flesh are necessary for the Reunion instinct to take effect.
 
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