Addressing the core issues

[Alex]

I don't think anybody's going to dispute that people who are dicks need to be infracted, least of all the people who are actually being the dicks. But I think we need to stop pretending that that is why people are leaving/have already left tbh.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Do you need to be an asshole to people to enjoy your time here? Seriously?

i don't think anyone needs to be an asshole, but when it comes to sharing opinions, people's arguments get heated, and some people will inevitably feel like they are being attacked because someone disagrees with their opinion.

so what will this forum become? the neutral planet of forums where no one's allowed to disagree because that would cause someone somewhere to become uncomfortable?

i mean, i've seen people say the equivalent of 'i don't want to post my opinion because someone will disagree with it'/'people disagree with my opinion they must personally hate ME', which is absolutely ridiculous! i mean, at this point i assume most rational people would realize that etc. person is not being an asshole by sharing their opinion, but i don't know that all of the moderation staff would agree with that.

 

[Cookie Monster]

It's really not going to be that bad, tbh. Feel free to disagree, all we're saying is that you don't have to toss around FUCK YOU's and YOU'RE AN IDIOT, or some snide ass gif to show you disagree with someone. If you disagree, tell them why constructively.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

It's really not going to be that bad, tbh. Feel free to disagree, all we're saying is that you don't have to toss around FUCK YOU's and YOU'RE AN IDIOT, or some snide ass gif to show you disagree with someone. If you disagree, tell them why constructively.

so you're saying i can't post an excalibur face in reaction to tetsuya nomura saying they're working on a 3ds version of final fantasy xiii?

 

[Cookie Monster]

so you're saying i can't post an excalibur face in reaction to tetsuya nomura saying they're working on a 3ds version of final fantasy xiii?

Of course you can. That's not even a serious discussion.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

This is what I understand from what's been discussed so far:
1. From now on, we should all use some restraint when cracking jokes and responding to posts we disagree with, until we know that the other person is OK with that kind of language/gif/style of address/whatever.
2. On the other side, we should all use some restraint when we feel we've been offended. We should think hard about whether the offense was deliberate, and if we feel it was, take it to PM or the mods rather than hashing it out in public. We should also avoid white-knighting, and use PMs instead if we feel the need to show solidarity.

If I'm wrong about this, I am ready to be corrected.

I for one would be sorry to see you change your style, Alex. Your posts nearly always make me laugh [edit: in a good way].

 

[Cookie Monster]

so you're saying i can't post an excalibur face in reaction to tetsuya nomura saying they're working on a 3ds version of final fantasy xiii?

Hell, if people are offended by something like that, I'll be the first one to jump in and post:

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

no heavy always

 

[Cookie Monster]

This is what I understand from what's been discussed so far:
1. From now on, we should all use some restraint when cracking jokes and responding to posts we disagree with, until we know that the other person is OK with that kind of language/gif/style of address/whatever.
2. On the other side, we should all use some restraint when we feel we've been offended. We should think hard about whether the offense was deliberate, and if we feel it was, take it to PM or the mods rather than hashing it out in public. We should also avoid white-knighting, and use PMs instead if we feel the need to show solidarity.

If I'm wrong about this, I am ready to be corrected.

I for one would be sorry to see you change your style, Alex. Your posts nearly always make me laugh [edit: in a good way].

On the white knighting, I'd rather you just report whatever you find offensive. Feel free to PM whoever you want, just keep in mind that if someone tells you to stop PMing them, then STOP. We don't take harassment lightly around here anymore.

 

[Kassi]

I wanted to thank Celes for apologizing to me. I am sorry if you got the impression that I asked anyone to speak on my behalf. I had a lot of things IRL to deal with and was feeling rather emotional about this issue. I'm just not that active on the forums, I don't have a lot of free time. I apologize if my non-participation seemed in any way offensive, I'm just busy.

Also I'm sorry if this derails whatever other discussion is going on. I thought I should probably let Celes know I appreciate her apology.

<3
Kassi

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

On the white knighting, I'd rather you just report whatever you find offensive. Feel free to PM whoever you want, just keep in mind that if someone tells you to stop PMing them, then STOP. We don't take harassment lightly around here anymore.

i meant PM your friend and tell him/her you love them and support them. I didn't mean PM the offending party. The mods should do that. I'm sorry; I can see that my meaning was unclear.

 

[Cookie Monster]

i meant PM your friend and tell him/her you love them and support them.

Of course you can, lol.

 

[Celes Chere]

Is it really not mind numbingly obvious that CK's comment was completely inappropriate? And, I wouldn't say Celes' comment was malicious, probably ill-advised, I don't think she meant any harm by it. However, after realizing what she said offended some people, instead of apologizing, she gave everyone the cold shoulder.

And many of us stated - himself and myself included - that his post was inappropriate. And even though I seemed to take most of the blame for it, we both still apologized. Now my apology is being accused of being fake. Fair enough, but don't say I didn't try. I didn't give ANYONE the cold shoulder. I kept responding afterwards, explaining my posts, saying sorry to Kassi, saying people please come to me if they have a problem with me. That is not the definition of giving the cold shoulder.

Before this drama even happened, is what a lot of us are talking about. This piece of drama going on right now is just the last straw for a lot of people with how insanely stupid it's being handled.

or some snide ass gif to show you disagree with someone.

I might as well be banned now.

Also I'm sorry if this derails whatever other discussion is going on. I thought I should probably let Celes know I appreciate her apology.

Thank
and again I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I hope there will be no hard feelings between us, at least.

 

[stiles]

why is that ck guy banned he was starting to be nice to me i think </3 i totally wouldnt have minded if you banned him if he didnt like me though. because he would have been disagreeing with me ofc!

 

[Tifabelle]

CK's ban is temporary. He'll be back in like 10 days.

 

[Geostigma]

CK's ban is 10 days to many I think.

What bothers me with this whole "change of atmosphere" stuff is that CK's post was really the only one that was out right insulting in recent history.

All the other claims by this groups PR guy (or should I say PL guy harhar) are completely baseless and lulzy, the alluded to list of "insulting posts" was nothing more then a bunch of threads where no one agreed with him and funnily enough where no one insulted him.

So much of this really is "oh noes they dont agree with me" , which makes the argument of "but its not about that its about people being rude" even funnier.

That said its even funnier that staff is saying *this* is the reason members are leaving, when some of the very members who did leave have made it know they left because of staff, and some others have stated they left due to the events leading to this drama and not the "atmosphere" here.

edit:

Bringing up the IRC because because,

I respect the members who took the time to defend it (namely yop). My big problem though ties in to big issues with the IRC system.

1). Its mostly real time messaging, leaving little to no indirect messaging (forgot the term sorry). Meaning the people you get to know are really only the the people who hang out in the same time zone or time you choose to hop on.

Where as on the forum I can get to know people like Scott or Tony who live on the other side of the planet because we can have an indirect time conversation and not have to rely on one of us being awake a little to late.
Thats not a problem in and of itself at all except when you encounter

2) Members who choose to only post on the IRC and only get to know that small group of members. Im not saying we should all be friends, hold hands, rainbows,butterflies ect. But its not incredibly helpful either when someone hops on the forum and expects the same atmosphere from the IRC that they get from that handful of people.

This also makes it unfair for the IRC bunch to say "Well we tried to reach out to you guys and get you to come on the IRC", when honestly not all of us have enough time in the day to participate in a real time conversation.

Where as on the flip side we all have enough time to make a post here and there on the forum but obviously a select few have chosen to only participate in the IRC despite the difficulties others may have. Thus why I said it seems like there "not even trying".


edit:

Sorry for especially shit grammar and poor choice of words today, Just woke up.

 

[Cthulhu]

1). Its mostly real time messaging, leaving little to no indirect messaging (forgot the term sorry). Meaning the people you get to know are really only the the people who hang out in the same time zone or time you choose to hop on.

Honestly, this is the exact same issue I have with the forums; most of the 'drama' posts get made exactly after I go to bed and do a day of work, then I get back in the evenings and everything's fucked. Similarly, I don't feel part of some of the other cliques on here due to timezones; it's kinda difficult to hang with people playing games when they do it at 4 AM (and on consoles I don't possess, and in regions I can't connect to, but that aside). tl;dr: timezones are a fact of life, can't be helped, and the forum in itself doesn't solve that problem other than stretch out discussions for longer periods of time.

As for the feeling comfortable talking on the IRC versus the forums, that too goes both ways (not directly related to your post btw, just in general). Some IRC regulars have expressed not feeling comfortable or welcome on the forums, while at the same time some forum regulars have expressed not feeling comfortable or welcome on the IRC.

I don't think those are actually fixable problems; to each his own, and you can't force people to enjoy a certain atmosphere; all you can do is make people feel welcome and wanted. If that fails, the member will not feel welcome and will not stick around - but that's okay too, because it's impossible to please everyone.

 

[Cookie Monster]

And many of us stated - himself and myself included - that his post was inappropriate. And even though I seemed to take most of the blame for it, we both still apologized. Now my apology is being accused of being fake. Fair enough, but don't say I didn't try. I didn't give ANYONE the cold shoulder. I kept responding afterwards, explaining my posts, saying sorry to Kassi, saying people please come to me if they have a problem with me. That is not the definition of giving the cold shoulder.

I probably didn't word my post right, I wasn't saying your apology was fake at all. My post up there was in reference to what you posted directly after the youtube video. That's why I edited my post and said:

EDIT: Just to clarify, I believe Celes did indeed apologize to Kassi. I'm strictly talking about what occurred in that thread.

 

[Celes Chere]

I know YOU didn't say my apology was fake. That was said in the IRC.

you know the place where everyone's nice

 

[Lex]

All the other claims by this groups PR guy (or should I say PL guy harhar) are completely baseless and lulzy, the alluded to list of "insulting posts" was nothing more then a bunch of threads where no one agreed with him and funnily enough where no one insulted him.

So much of this really is "oh noes they dont agree with me" , which makes the argument of "but its not about that its about people being rude" even funnier.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't think oversimplifying it like that helps matters though. People are entitled to their opinion and stuff but some people were pissed off about things said etc. tbh I just want this to be over now, so if you've got personal shit with me based on what you apparently think I consider to be insulting please contact me about it instead of bringing it up here, considering what you're talking about was supposed to be private between me and Tiff.

Same thing goes for anyone else. I've been seeing exaggerations everywhere that I'm this big massive crybaby that's complaining about everything, and there's only so much twisting of what you've said a person can take before it starts to grate. I lack the energy and mental stamina to continue defending myself like this, which is why I haven't posted in this thread in a while. It's done.

 

[Celes Chere]

considering what you're talking about was supposed to be private between me and Tiff.

Prince Lex, you said you didn't mind if I told my friends the contents as long as I didn't post them publicly, so I hope you're not upset with me that they've been brought up here x - x you and I may not always get along, but I want to clarify that if I say I will not post them publicly I won't and it'd be cool if no one posted them publicly as well since that was his request = w =

 

[looneymoon]

Same thing goes for anyone else. I've been seeing exaggerations everywhere that I'm this big massive crybaby that's complaining about everything

Well

at least it's being done to your face.

Just sayin'

 

[Lex]

I'm not upset with you at all, and I expected you to share them with your friends . I just realise that because I've been very vocal through this whole thing, I've been called whiny and annoying and a lot of what I've been trying to get across seems to have been overlooked and turned into something else.

I also want to make it clear that not all of those were considered offensive etc but especially not by me. I realise it might have looked that way because it was obviously me that took the time to find them and send them to you. As I explained to Tifabelle, I only found 2 really offensive and I sorted those out with the members at the time, the rest were noted by other people. I should have given you descriptions or something but it took me hours to make it etc.

I might be considered the "PR guy" etc but I was just trying to express myself honestly. I did, so there's not much more I can say. I can only ask people to read all my posts here thoroughly before jumping to the conclusion that people are getting upset over nothing. Having said that, I do respect everyone's opinion even if people are completely disagreeing with what I'm saying. It's not like I wasn't expecting that - it is the reason this blew up after all. People disagree, it happens .

 

[Geostigma]

This is funny. I didnt get that info from Tiff

*Nor omega before you jump to that conclusion as well*

 

[Lex]

Saying it was a private thing to Tiff isn't jumping to a conclusion dude, she's the only person I sent them to. Obviously the person who showed whatever it is to you failed to mention I didn't want it discussed in public. You know, to avoid more drama. Like it said in that post I made when I said I wasn't going to post the list in public.