Avatar: The Last Airbender & Korra (SPOILERS)

[Zealkin]

KORRASAMI FOR ALL.

 

[Theozilla]

Episode 10 Preview/Description
Season 1, Episode 10

Title: “Turning the Tides”

Air Date: Saturday June 16th at 11am

Description from Zap2It: “The Equalists begin to attack Republic City.”

Description from TvGuide: “Republic City gets bombarded by the Equalists.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Legend_of_Korra_episodes
Also Wikipedia has some episode descriptions for episodes 9-12, but there are no references for them so take them with a grain of salt:

Episode 9: Korra tries to make sense of her visions while Tenzin and Lin Beifong search for Equalist hostages. Tarrlock blames the Equalists for Korra's disappearance.

Episode 10: The Equalists begin to attack Republic City. Korra and Zuko devise a plan to break out the hostages and team avatar from prison.

Episode 11: Amon blames the benders for Korra's disappearance.

Episode 12: Korra faces off against Amon.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Anyone see the whole Korra should have been a lesbian thing on tumblr, I mean the idea has been going around for awhile, but just wondering whet you thought of it?

I personally think it would have been "too much" all at once. Korra is already a minority and a un-stereotypical female character. Two very underrepresented areas on tv. I do think that there needs to be gay characters represented on shows, especially cartoons, I was really rooting for that adventure time lesbian pairing that they were going to make, but people are closed minded enough as it is, and throwing all of that at an audience at once seems to be a bit much in my opinion.

doesn't mean i stop shipping korasami though

I think it might have fed into the 'Butch' stereotype, quite possibly, and I think the idea of Korra being a rather rough and tumble heterosexual woman who is not 'feminized' by her romances would be a nice message to give to kids.

Likewise, having a bi/gay male character who's neither camp or villainous would be a big step forward, even if he never got with anyone.

 

[Theozilla]

http://korranation.tumblr.com/post/24475868571/new-clip-tenzin-rushes-to-city-hall-to-find-out
New clip of episode 9 from Korra Nation, Tarrlok further proves how he is a mangnificiently manipulative bastard.

 

[Splintered]

I'm sorry but not even gay can salvage the mess that is LoK's romance.

4 more episodes which is sad but Aang's spirit yessss

 

[Tennyo]

Meh, I don't see how all the romance stuff has any baring on anything important. I hardly notice it.

Because everything else in the show kind of overshadows all that.

 

[Zee]

the tumblr edits turning every single makorra scene into a korrasami scene have made the show far more bearable to me

Anyone see the whole Korra should have been a lesbian thing on tumblr, I mean the idea has been going around for awhile, but just wondering whet you thought of it?

I personally think it would have been "too much" all at once. Korra is already a minority and a un-stereotypical female character.

i don't think it's "too much". i mean hell, look at isabela in DA2. she is a brown, bi/poly/pansexual, tough and sexual assertive female character and she's one of the better companions in the game

ngl it would have been pretty cool to have korra as a gay character, just because it's nice to have characters to look up to? like when i was younger i didn't have a whole lot cept like, bianca in all my children for a good long while until i discovered sailor moon

but i mean if you aren't straight and esp if you are a minority you are def not going to be as represented in media as other demographics which sucks

also there is this notion that gay crushes are somehow "not for kids" which is fucking stupid when we have Y7 shows with straight teenage couples mackin' it all the time but oh hohoooo we can't show two guys/two girls doing that because gay doesn't exist until you're 18!! or something

i mean i wish when i was younger i could have seen marceline serenading pb it would have made me feel braver when everyone was telling me what i was "supposed" to like

seemingly small things can really mean a lot idk
idk what was this post about.............

 

[Theozilla]

Sorry to spoil to spoil anyone's hopes, but the wikipedia entry to the episode lists got updated and no longer have those episode descriptions. Looks like they were as I suspected, unsubstantiated sources.

 

[Tennyo]

Perhaps it meant Zuko's daughter/granddaughter rather than Zuko himself?

 

[Zealkin]

the tumblr edits turning every single makorra scene into a korrasami scene have made the show far more bearable to me

i don't think it's "too much". i mean hell, look at isabela in DA2. she is a brown, bi/poly/pansexual, tough and sexual assertive female character and she's one of the better companions in the game

ngl it would have been pretty cool to have korra as a gay character, just because it's nice to have characters to look up to? like when i was younger i didn't have a whole lot cept like, bianca in all my children for a good long while until i discovered sailor moon

but i mean if you aren't straight and esp if you are a minority you are def not going to be as represented in media as other demographics which sucks

also there is this notion that gay crushes are somehow "not for kids" which is fucking stupid when we have Y7 shows with straight teenage couples mackin' it all the time but oh hohoooo we can't show two guys/two girls doing that because gay doesn't exist until you're 18!! or something

i mean i wish when i was younger i could have seen marceline serenading pb it would have made me feel braver when everyone was telling me what i was "supposed" to like

seemingly small things can really mean a lot idk
idk what was this post about.............

There is a difference between having characters that realistic in games compared to cartoon though. Not as many children are exposed to games like that then they are television.
I also want a gay character represented in the media, especially cartoons, that isn't a cardboard cut out stereotype. Having a main character that is a female and a minority however IS a big step forward, And honestly it probably never even popped into Bryke's mind to think of that for Korra, which in itself is telling of how our society works today, people just don't think about the minority groups, gay/lesbian or skin color wise it's still pretty much ignored.
The "kids are too young for gay/lesbian characters" argument is also something I consider ridiculous, however it does affect the ratings if children's parents are constantly complaining about, and probably keeping their children from watching it. And sadly what it comes down to is money.

I hope that one day this won't be a problem, and I continue to be mindful about minorities in things that I create as well. The mindset of tolerance is still hard for many to understand , it's really quite saddening. :/

obligatory korrasami:

 

[Tennyo]

i don't think it's "too much". i mean hell, look at isabela in DA2. she is a brown, bi/poly/pansexual, tough and sexual assertive female character and she's one of the better companions in the game

Except you can't take something that happens in a mature rated video game and expect it to work in a show that is aimed at kids in their tweens. Dragon Age and Korra are two completely different ballparks.

ngl it would have been pretty cool to have korra as a gay character, just because it's nice to have characters to look up to? like when i was younger i didn't have a whole lot cept like, bianca in all my children for a good long while until i discovered sailor moon

but i mean if you aren't straight and esp if you are a minority you are def not going to be as represented in media as other demographics which sucks

also there is this notion that gay crushes are somehow "not for kids" which is fucking stupid when we have Y7 shows with straight teenage couples mackin' it all the time but oh hohoooo we can't show two guys/two girls doing that because gay doesn't exist until you're 18!! or something

i mean i wish when i was younger i could have seen marceline serenading pb it would have made me feel braver when everyone was telling me what i was "supposed" to like

seemingly small things can really mean a lot idk
idk what was this post about.............

You have very valid points.

But you do have to look at mainstream as a whole. I don't see mainstream society approving of a gay romance in a show like Korra. You have to take into account that this show needs ratings to survive. It needs to be monetarily successful, and making any of the characters gay is a risk, because you just don't know how people are going to react.

If it isn't successful, then it doesn't get made, and we'd have no Korra at all.

It's all good and fine if the viewers respond well, but that means nothing if their parents decide to block the channel and are calling for boycotts and the like. Even Nick as a whole could possibly take a hit just for airing a show like that.

All this stuff on Tumblr makes it seem like people expect Mike and Bryan to be able to just do this. That they are supposed to be part of a fight. But it's kind of unfair to expect people to risk everything and take up arms. They have a lot to lose and it's their right to choose not to jeopardize that.

I'm not saying it's right, but it is the way things are. I wish this wasn't the reality of the situation as much as you do, but that doesn't change anything. I have no doubt that one day this will become a non-issue. I have no idea how long it will take to get there, though. It will probably take a generation or two. Those who were raised with the idea that gay romance is bad will need to grow old and step out of the way for younger generations who are more accepting of it.

I have faith that the kids of today will grow up to be the tolerant parents of tomorrow. [/cheesy one-liner] Anyone who denies this trend is just fooling themselves.

 

[Carlie]

i don't think it's "too much". i mean hell, look at isabela in DA2. she is a brown, bi/poly/pansexual, tough and sexual assertive female character and she's one of the better companions in the game

As said DA is not an accurate comparison to LOK. It's an M rated video game and Isabela is not the protagonist but yeah I wish more character like her were in the mainstream media.


Perhaps a good way to start introducing more gay/bisexual characters to mainstream media for the time being would be like Batman The Animated Series did with Harley and Ivy by hinting at it in the series.

 

[Tennyo]

Kind of like the Fang/Vanille approach where the rest of us know what they were really going for even if the story doesn't implicitly tell us?

Or Xena/Gabriel (I don't care what anyone says they were totally together)

 

[Carlie]

Yes that's what I'm saying. Pssst Xena/Gabriel was obivous, those two were hitting it good.

 

[Zee]

Except you can't take something that happens in a mature rated video game and expect it to work in a show that is aimed at kids in their tweens. Dragon Age and Korra are two completely different ballparks.

ummm i think you're missing the point of my comparison??? my point was that having someone be several things (minority/strong female/not straight) isn't "too much" because it can work and the character can still be realistic instead of just a statement

It's all good and fine if the viewers respond well, but that means nothing if their parents decide to block the channel and are calling for boycotts and the like. Even Nick as a whole could possibly take a hit just for airing a show like that.

well. i mean. adventure time is kind of a good example in this case cause some parents whined like babies after "what was missing" but the show also got a lot of support and at the end of the day adventure time is still one of the highest rated shows on CN (and the comics owe a lot of their sales due to catering to the marcy/pb crowd to the point of making a spin off comic starring them, so....)

the conservatives will kick and scream and bitch but idk at the end of the day i think people are mostly open minded???

plus like idk why people make big stinks about things like this when their precious kid shows have stuff like bloodbending and 12 year olds struggling with murder (in the case of avatar) and i can't even list the amount of sexual jokes in adventure time cause i'd be here all day but

siiiiiigh

I wish this wasn't the reality of the situation as much as you do, but that doesn't change anything. I have no doubt that one day this will become a non-issue. I have no idea how long it will take to get there, though. It will probably take a generation or two.

the only way these things become a non issue, though, is if people stop treating it like it is an issue. having it presented more in mainstream media helps a lot

i mean i'm not saying it's ONLY UP TO LOK TO DO THIS but it would have been nice

 

[Makoeyes987]

People need to understand....social change isn't going to happen on its own. That's not how social mores, preconceived notions and discrimination regarding minorities/genders/etc are changed. Blacks, hispanics, asians, and other ehtnicities didn't get put into the media spotlight more positively by just pussyfooting around and waiting for the "right time" when it was "safe" and no one could bitch and be offended.

That's just never gonna happen, because people who are closed minded aren't going to wake up one day and go "Gee, you know...I think I'd feel alright with seeing a gay person be a rolemodel for my kids!!"

It's going to happen when some creator/author/producer/etc nuts up, makes a character that;s openly gay and not a stereotype, and just lays it out there for everyone to see. Yes, it'll be controversial. Yes, it'll piss people off. But eventually, other creators will find the action emboldening, and will follow suit. More people will vocally support said "controversial" depiction. And the barrier will just come tumbling down. That's how it's always been done in regards to showing minorities, women, and the like in media.

There is no "right time" or "ensuring the parents are kept happy." It has to just be brought into their face. They'll either deal with it, or bitch. And life will go on and hopefully a majority of society will embrace it and move forward.

 

[Tennyo]

Did I once ever say just sit around and twiddle your thumbs?

Of course that's what needs to happen but if people don't take those steps it shouldn't be held against them.

well. i mean. adventure time is kind of a good example in this case cause some parents whined like babies after "what was missing" but the show also got a lot of support and at the end of the day adventure time is still one of the highest rated shows on CN (and the comics owe a lot of their sales due to catering to the marcy/pb crowd to the point of making a spin off comic starring them, so....)

Catroon Network vs Nick. I don't see how they are the same?

One caters to a wider range of ages, some of which is for adults.

Nick is mostly all children.

Nick probably wouldn't want to take that much of a risk. It doesn't mean a lot of other channels/shows are not more gutsy.

I mean, those conservatives who kick and scream could very well translate to lost viewers and revenue.

I mean, I get the impression that Adventure Time has a lot of hardcore adult fans. Does Korra have as many?

 

[Zee]

Catroon Network vs Nick. I don't see how they are the same?

just because CN has adult swim doesn't mean they aren't still both the biggest names in children's entertainment

that doesn't mean some of that entertainment doesn't have some serious adult overtones!

pictured above: wholesome children's entertainment on a saturday morning
parents rest easily knowing their kids are in safe hands

Does Korra have as many?

is this a rhetorical question??????? ofc it does
probably not as many stoners as AT though

 

[Zealkin]

I mean, I get the impression that Adventure Time has a lot of hardcore adult fans. Does Korra have as many?

Korra's audience is mainly kids that had watched atla who grew up. probably around ages 15-21. Pretty sure kids watch it too, but a LOT of the audience is made up of older fans i think.

The main problem here is that I doubt the creators even THOUGHT about making Korra lesbian, which like I said before they didn't consciously think of it. Minorities are underrepresented like this because people don't automatically think of them.

Yes things need to be controversial and get done, but sometimes the thought doesn't even cross creators minds.

 

[looneymoon]

I don't really understand this whole ratings argument.

This show is for the kids to watch, not the parents. And if kids want to watch their show, they will find a way to watch their show. That's just how kids work. Really at the end of the day, the ratings only contribute to a fraction of the money brought it by a kids show. Toy/merchandise sales are equally important I think.

Kids don't discriminate. Parents do. Look at Sailor Moon. It was FILLED with lesbianism, implicit or otherwise, and it was still wildly popular even in the west. If it's a good show it will appeal to kids regardless.

I mean, I don't expect Bryke to create a gay character if they don't want to. It's not a requirement to make a good show. But speaking more generally, they should have that option open to them without an atmosphere of discomfort.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Why is it hard to think that the show could in fact make Korra gay?
The whole premise of the show is showing equality of all people, the plot of this series is founded on the principles that everyone should treat each other with respect and stop with the biggotry.

The avatar is seen as the peacekeeper of the world and is meant to bring order to chaos, if the show's producers really wanted to show children of today that skin colour etc shouldn't matter then it isn't really a stretch to believe that they would make Korra gay also.

 

[Theozilla]

just because CN has adult swim doesn't mean they aren't still both the biggest names in children's entertainment

that doesn't mean some of that entertainment doesn't have some serious adult overtones!

pictured above: wholesome children's entertainment on a saturday morning
parents rest easily knowing their kids are in safe hands



is this a rhetorical question??????? ofc it does
probably not as many stoners as AT though

Yeah, but typically parents complain less about violence than sexual themes or "naughty words". As a South Park character once said "horrific deplorable violence is okay as long a people don't say naughty words".
Not a comment on the argument whether Bryke had an imperative to make a homosexual character on The Legend of Korra or not; just making the observation of what usually USA parents are more squeamish about.

 

[Theozilla]

Why is it hard to think that the show could in fact make Korra gay?
The whole premise of the show is showing equality of all people, the plot of this series is founded on the principles that everyone should treat each other with respect and stop with the biggotry.

The avatar is seen as the peacekeeper of the world and is meant to bring order to chaos, if the show's producers really wanted to show children of today that skin colour etc shouldn't matter then it isn't really a stretch to believe that they would make Korra gay also.

I don't think that people are saying story-wise it would be hard to imagine, rather people are questioning how okay Nickelodeon executives and/or the TV censors would be okay with it.

 

[Zee]

Yeah, but typically parents complain less about violence than sexual themes or "naughty words". As a South Park character once said "horrific deplorable violence is okay as long a people don't say naughty words".
Not a comment on the argument whether Bryke had an imperative to make a homosexual character on The Legend of Korra or not; just making the observation of what usually USA parents are more squeamish about.

oh i know, i agree americans are dumb as hell when it comes to this

i remember being in the theater when brotherhood of the wolf came out and, y'know, the scene opens with some woman being chased and then bashed horribly on the head and she's bleeding and screaming and scared and no one says anything

then there's the brothel scene and the second titties get on the screen someone shouts out "COVER YOUR KID'S EYES"

my mom yelled back a really nice equivalent of "shut up you dumb shit"

 

[looneymoon]

The whole mindset just makes me think, well maybe Bloomsbury should've made JK Rowling rewrite the whole "wizard" aspect out of her story.

I mean clearly something can't be marketable if it offends the sensibilities of poor conservative moms.