Best And Worst Parents Of Final Fantasy 7

[jazzflower92]

I would like to say Hojo, as he raised a child who can pretty much do everything in the world. The methods may have been a little bit rash, but definitely nobody can even compare to Hojo's parenting skills when it comes to giving your child the the best weapons and skills to survive in the modern day world.

In before the shitstorm, I will just mention my counter-argument is already prepared.

A little too rash calling him that is calling a Hurricane a little drizzle.There is a difference between trying to give your child the needs to succeed and abusively treating your son's life as an experiment.I mean Hojo didn't even care about his son knowing the truth about his parentage.Not to mention Hojo had no qualms about injecting a parastic alien's cells when he was a fetus.Although he didn't know what Jenova was at first but he still didn't care when he found out what she was.Hojo just really doesn't care about being a father and is only interested in his son because he proved successful.

 

[SirVival]

A little too rash calling him that is calling a Hurricane a little drizzle.There is a difference between trying to give your child the needs to succeed and abusively treating your son's life as an experiment.I mean Hojo didn't even care about his son knowing the truth about his parentage.Not to mention Hojo had no qualms about injecting a parastic alien's cells when he was a fetus.Although he didn't know what Jenova was at first but he still didn't care when he found out what she was.Hojo just really doesn't care about being a father and is only interested in his son because he proved successful.

Just take a look in to the lives of the most genious people on this planet; most of them had parents that shared some similar personal traits to Hojo.
Sure, he is a madman and over the top for the sake of a videogame, but that is usually the case for the best.
How many of our predecessors have done horrible things to their children and fetus's, just due to the lack of insufficient knowledge? Many times firmas or "the people who know better" have sold things, which didn't have any or little experimenting before selling the product for families, that have had absolutely horrible results. This is in praktikum human experimenting caused by lack of interest or in order to raise one's wealth. I hardly see any difference to Hojo, except his results were amazing, probably due to the love for science.

 

[jazzflower92]

Just take a look in to the lives of the most genious people on this planet; most of them had parents that shared some similar personal traits to Hojo.
Sure, he is a madman and over the top for the sake of a videogame, but that is usually the case for the best.
How many of our predecessors have done horrible things to their children and fetus's, just due to the lack of insufficient knowledge? Many times firmas or "the people who know better" have sold things, which didn't have any or little experimenting before selling the product for families that have had absolutely horrible results. This is in praktikum human experimenting caused by lack of interest or in order to raise one's wealth. I hardly see any difference to Hojo, except his results were amazing, probably due to the love for science.

That still doesn't make Hojo better in fact it just makes him worse because since there are people out there that have done that sorta of thing it just makes them selfish for putting their offspring in possible harms way.Not to mention it violates a code of parental care as well.I mean using your own child in an experiment would defiantly cross unethical lines.Just because his results had good results doesn't mean he should have.Also those results also had negative effects as well.For example what if Sephiroth turned out like Angeal and Genesis that is not repsonsible parenting that is taking risks with your own child's future life.

 

[SirVival]

Also those results also had negative effects as well.For example what if Sephiroth turned out like Angeal and Genesis that is not repsonsible parenting that is taking risks with your own child's future life.

What kind of negative effects are you talking about? Being strongest and the smartest kid around - a prodigy?
I don't care about those other two, to me they are just fillercharacters which I have no real knowledge of. I would like to change that, though.

 

[jazzflower92]

What kind of negative effects are you talking about? Being strongest and the smartest kid around - a prodigy?
I don't care about those other two, to me they are just fillercharacters which I have no real knowledge of. I would like to change that, though.

I mean Hojo gambled with his son's life when he experimented on him.He could have turned out like either Angeal or Genesis who both were degrading.Not to mention the fact that actually its been implied that because of his special skills he always felt alienated from other people.I have a feeling that Hojo was obsessed with making his son perfect that he prevented him from actually having a normal childhood.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Since we've already mentioned Hojo's jacking up Sephy on J-cells and Mako, let's not forget Hollander, who did the same thing to Angeal.


As far as best parent's go, I think Cloud and Tifa definitely go on that list. Barring the brief period of time where Cloud ran off to go angst about Zack and Aerith, they seem to have done a pretty good job raising Denzel and Marlene.


Oh and jazzflower you mentioned Cloud being a mama's boy let me ask you this, what makes Cloud a mama's boy? And being angry/sad because Sephy killed his mom does not count, because honestly, anyone who wouldn't be angry or sad because someone killed their mom either has an awful mother or is an awful child.

 

[Octo]

I would like to say Hojo, as he raised a child who can pretty much do everything in the world. The methods may have been a little bit rash, but definitely nobody can even compare to Hojo's parenting skills when it comes to giving your child the the best weapons and skills to survive in the modern day world.

In before the shitstorm, I will just mention my counter-argument is already prepared.

I guess that yeah, from a Darwinist pov Hojo was the best parent

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

And I think Lucrecia is a worse parent than Hojo. Not only did she experiment on her son, unlike Hojo she completely disappeared from his life afterwards. At least Hojo had a presence in Sephy's life, even if it wasn't that of a father figure.

 

[jazzflower92]

Yeah,Lucrecia she might have shown remorse after she wasn't allowed to even hold or even see her son.On the other hand she still was selfish enough to experiment on her own unborn child without even considering what could possibly happen.

Also going back to Hojo it is noted that he is often present in Sephiroth's life but as seen throughout the game Sephiroth has nothing but scorn for him.This could indicate that Sephiroth doesn't have any happy memories about the man.I know Square doesn't have details about Sephiroth's childhood but if you have nothing but contempt for a person there has got to be a big reason.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

And I think Lucrecia is a worse parent than Hojo. Not only did she experiment on her son, unlike Hojo she completely disappeared from his life afterwards. At least Hojo had a presence in Sephy's life, even if it wasn't that of a father figure.

You're kidding, right? It's better to have a parent absent from your life than one that helps promote an envirnoment of vileness and destruction. The best Hojo could have done for everyone was to die, not attempt some interaction with Sephiroth. Didn't he try to 'help' Sephiroth...by you know, giving him more power in order to cause more destruction? I confess the game confused the bejesus out of me at times, but I distinctly remember Hojo trying to do something near the end of the game. And that something wasn't good. At least, not good for anyone but himself.

And Jazz is right; Sephiroth doesn't think highly of Hojo despite the fact that Hojo is an accomplished scientist. Why is that? One can only speculate but it at least implies that the relationship between Hojo and Sephiroth was not positive, so Hojo certainly wasn't a good influence on his life. How is that somehow better than Lucrecia's disappearance?

 

[jazzflower92]

You're kidding, right? It's better to have a parent absent from your life than one that helps promote an envirnoment of vileness and destruction. The best Hojo could have done for everyone was to die, not attempt some interaction with Sephiroth. Didn't he try to 'help' Sephiroth...by you know, giving him more power in order to cause more destruction? I confess the game confused the bejesus out of me at times, but I distinctly remember Hojo trying to do something near the end of the game. And that something wasn't good. At least, not good for anyone but himself.

And Jazz is right; Sephiroth doesn't think highly of Hojo despite the fact that Hojo is an accomplished scientist. Why is that? One can only speculate but it at least implies that the relationship between Hojo and Sephiroth was not positive, so Hojo certainly wasn't a good influence on his life. How is that somehow better than Lucrecia's disappearance?

Yeah,Sephiroth called Hojo a walking mass of complexes and actually ridiculed that Hojo dismissed anything magical.He also sees Hojo as inferior to Gast which further shows how Sephiroth has no respect for the second rate scientist.I have a feeling that Hojo might have done some good if he was not in his son's life at all.

Helping your son cause more destruction is abosultely the worst thing a parent can do.That just shows that you really don't care about them and what their actions will do.Then again Hojo was more interested into further seeing his research bloom than actually caring about Sephiroth.Hojo sees Sephiroth as a product of his experimentation;the fact Sephiroth is his son is just a small detail that really doesn't matter.

 

[SirVival]

Maybe the grudge comes from Sephiroth's early childhood, when Hojo was trying to made his little rascal more awesome. We all know how socially awkward Hojo can be, probably because his social skills are comparable to a peanut.

Helping your son cause more destruction is abosultely the worst thing a parent can do.That just shows that you really don't care about them and what their actions will do.Then again Hojo was more interested into further seeing his research bloom than actually caring about Sephiroth.Hojo sees Sephiroth as a product of his experimentation;the fact Sephiroth is his son is just a small detail that really doesn't matter.

I have kind of mixed feelings about that one: No doubt that he helped his son to do horrible, horrible things; but at the same time he was still there when Sephiroth needed him. Who cares about what his motive for that was, words mean nothing compared to actually acting. Everyone can lie, what is the use to tell the truth to a failed clone. And calculating from the Acts that Hojo has done for his son, I would like to present you the Father of the Year.

 

[jazzflower92]

Maybe the grudge comes from Sephiroth's early childhood, when Hojo was trying to made his little rascal more awesome. We all know how socially awkward Hojo can be, probably because his social skills are comparable to a peanut.


I have kind of mixed feelings about that one: No doubt that he helped his son to do horrible, horrible things; but at the same time he was still there when Sephiroth needed him. Who cares about what his motive for that was, words mean nothing compared to actually acting. Everyone can lie, what is the use to tell the truth to a failed clone. And calculating from the Acts that Hojo has done for his son, I would like to present you the Father of the Year.

You forget one thing about Hojo which is he is a full blown sociopath that doesn't care for anyone but his sick,twisted obsession with science.No matter how one puts it Hojo cares more about science than actually giving his son a healthy life.There is also a difference between being socially awkard and being pure evil.Before Sephiroth turned evil he was stoic and socially withdrawn however he actually could be a nice and caring person.Hojo throughout the game has shown time and again how much of a jerk he could be.

 

[SirVival]

You forget one thing about Hojo which is he is a full blown sociopath that doesn't care for anyone but his sick,twisted obsession with science.No matter how one puts it Hojo cares more about science than actually giving his son a healthy life.There is also a difference between being socially awkard and being pure evil.Before Sephiroth turned evil he was stoic and socially withdrawn however he actually could be a nice and caring person.Hojo throughout the game has shown time and again how much of a jerk he could be.

Well if your argument is going to be the same from the beginning to the end, I really see no reason to further discuss the matter at hand with you.

Nice thread btw.

 

[ForceStealer]

And I think Lucrecia is a worse parent than Hojo. Not only did she experiment on her son, unlike Hojo she completely disappeared from his life afterwards. At least Hojo had a presence in Sephy's life, even if it wasn't that of a father figure.

Lucrecia was forbidden from seeing Sephiroth by Hojo. Hojo's worse.

 

[jazzflower92]

Lucrecia was forbidden from seeing Sephiroth by Hojo. Hojo's worse.

Not to mention Hojo really often times only cared about Sephiroth being a successful experiment.I mean Hojo didn't care that his son died but the fact that he was defeated.Afterthat he just lost interest until his son came back.Hojo is only interested if his experiments that show potential if they don't then he won't put his energy into it.

Yeah,about Hojo not letting Lucrecia see Sephiroth I have a feeling its because he didn't want Sephiroth to grow soft.He wanted his son to be self reliant and a mother figure would prevent that.Hojo himself didn't see the need to be a father to his son because Sephiroth needed to have all sense of humanity stripped from him which meant he could not know who his parents were.

 

[Splintered]

I can imagine Hojo's parenting something like

Hojo: Son, I just want to let you noe that you can be anything you want to, if you put your mind to it.

Sephiroth: i want to be a god

Hojo: 'kay, I'll support you anyway I can :')

He's true to his word at least

 

[jazzflower92]

I can imagine Hojo's parenting something like

Hojo: Son, I just want to let you noe that you can be anything you want to, if you put your mind to it.

Sephiroth: i want to be a god

Hojo: 'kay, I'll support you anyway I can :')

He's true to his word at least

That was after Sephiroth went insane.Its not like Hojo actually was concerned emotionally and mentally for his son.I have a feeling some of his aloofness comes from being raised by Hojo under Shinra's care.Hojo's parenting is more like treat your son's life like one big science project then see what results come from it.

That reminds me that Sephiroth originally was made to become an artificial Cetra.I have a feeling that his first years of life was being monitored and tested into trying to find any Cetra powers he could have had.I can also see that as a child he was always treated and talked to like an adult.

 

[ForceStealer]

Splintered was joking

 

[jazzflower92]

Splintered was joking

Oops.

Sometimes I don't detect sarcasm all that well.

But yeah Hojo really at heart could care less about Sephiroth unless it sparked his scientific curiosity.A question that keeps daunting me would have be if Hojo would have gotten rid of Sephiroth when he was young if he proved to be defective like Angeal and Genesis.A lot of my instinct says he would do it without any regret and just plan on having another child that would be a better success.Sephiroth is just a long extensive science project that needs high maintenance and supervision.

 

[Kai Schulen]

Just gonna throw in my late 2 gil here:

About leaving Marlene alone to look after a bar -- like Force said I doubt that AVALANCHE actually left Marlene alone to run 7th Heaven by herself/serve drinks to patrons. They could've easily left a sign on up front that said it was closed and if anyone in the slums had a problem with that or forced Marlene to give them drinks, they would have a very angry dad with a gun arm and a bartender who can beat your ass to down to hell and back 7 times around to deal with.

as for the

Tifa
Cloud! I got a message from the Weapon Shop man upstairs.
He has something he wants to give you. Don't forget!
Marlene, you watch the store while we're gone!

Marlene
All right!! Good Luck.
Take care!

Well, Marlene's at that age where's she transitioning from a baby to a Big Girl, so I kinda figured that Tifa telling Marlene to "look after the store" was something similar to what my mom did to me when I was 4 years old she had to leave me *alone for a brief periods of time (like 30 minutes) to pick up my sibling from elementary school or whatever-- "You're a Big Girl now, so be good." Like instilling a sense of "responsibility", so to speak. Though leaving a 4 year old at a bar in the slums isn't exactly the best way to make a growing kid feel responsible.

As for Barret leaving Marlene behind again in AC: I have slightly mixed feelings about Barret leaving behind his kid like that, but in things like settling his past/guilt/atoning for his sins, I think it would have been incredibly selfish of him if he involved Marlene in things like that -- Sure she experienced a lot of stuff in her life and is super mature for her age, but Barret's issues should not be Marlene's problems, and he's trying to settle his past so that it doesn't haunt Marlene's future. Kids shouldn't have to pay for their parents' sins and all that.

I guess I'm just reiterating what others say at this point: Barret may not be the best parent, but I think that he's a really loving father and truly cares about Marlene. At least he's a better father than my dad.

Soooo my vote for best parents? Seto, Elmyra, Iflana, Reeve and Cloud's mothers, though I used to have slightly mixed feelings about Cloud's mom. xD

*By alone, I mean my aunt had to be lurking around. Apparently I really didn't like it when it was obvious that I was going to be babysat, so my mom and my aunt had to be very very subtle about it and had to make it look like I was all by myself. xD;

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Can we bring other FFs into this? Because Jecht can definitely go on the bad parents list. He was verbally abusive to Tidus and was drunk all the time, and while he only verbally abused Tidus because he cared about him and thought it would make him strive to do better, that clearly had a negative psychological effect on Tidus. He's not as bad as some of the other FF parents though, and he did love his son, and he even wised up during his journey through Spira, but was unfortunately unable to see Tidus again at that point, though before he became the Final Aeon he did tell Auron to look after Tidus for him.

 

[SirVival]

Can we bring other FFs into this? Because Jecht can definitely go on the bad parents list. He was verbally abusive to Tidus and was drunk all the time, and while he only verbally abused Tidus because he cared about him and thought it would make him strive to do better, that clearly had a negative psychological effect on Tidus. He's not as bad as some of the other FF parents though, and he did love his son, and he even wised up during his journey through Spira, but was unfortunately unable to see Tidus again at that point, though before he became the Final Aeon he did tell Auron to look after Tidus for him.

Good idea. I would then say Laguna, eventhough Rinoa's father is pretty antagonistic, but that motherfucker, can you believe it? He was pretty much the most amazing guy in the whole planet, not to mention his happy-go-lucky personality and always good intentions, and was still not able to give Squall ANYTHING as a father during the whole game. Or even to tell him about his past. This was the most disappointing factor of the whole game for me, and as far as the most disappointing parenting goes, I would say Laguna Loire takes the victory every day of the year.

Edit: Or did he give somekind of answers to the most trivial questions player could have? I pretty much forgot about it, but there was a moment inside of the Ragnarok when Laguna decided to open his mouth. Unfortunately only a little bit...

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

I wouldn't put Laguna on the list, because he didn't even KNOW Squall was his son. He thought Raine's baby had died with her. He has a valid excuse.
Know, as for the "good parents" list, I think Dorgan can go on there. He seems to have been a good father to Bartz. Stella seems to have been a good mother during the period of Bartz's childhood when she was alive, so she can probably go on there too.
And the King of Baron from FFIV seems to have been a good foster father to Cecil, so I'd also put him on the list.
Braska could probably go on the "good parents" list, since he seems to have been a good father to Yuna, and she seems to look up to him.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah, Laguna gets a pass. There's not really much he could do for Squall outside of the help he already gave, especially at the time they meet up. Squall is a grown ass man who's more than self sufficient. The fact that Laguna wanted to discuss the details of their relation AFTER THE THREAT TO THE WORLD WAS DEALT WITH is uh...probably the best thing to do.