ChaosBringers, Reborn!

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Some more beautiful fan art that I happened upon this morning by EerieFaery:

Vincent.....
Haunted Nightmares
Vincent.

And in case anyone missed the VinLu fic I posted in Innocent Sin, because it does contain delicious Vincentness:

As Crimson as My Sins, by Dance Macabre

 

[Mantichorus]

[quote author=KamuiKeyblade link=topic=221.msg8411#msg8411 date=1231983232]...At any rate I was thinking of making a Vincent tribute video, so any input for what I should do? Help, comments, suggestions, chocolate are all appreciated.
[/quote]The shots of Vincent running up the stairs to the Mako Cannon/Sister Ray are woefully underused, IMHO. As you've said you have a song, I won't make any suggestions.[quote author=Ravynne link=topic=221.msg8786#msg8786 date=1232081262]

@_@ Previously, on "Ravy, Armed with Canon"...

...point taken. :-[[/quote]The point was, you'd made a well thought-out arguement using the canon info, something the rest of us weren't. Well, and you were making the point with all the subtlety of an Amazon.

Rufus was not the "head" of the Turks when Vincent was one. For some reason, I want to say Rufus was 28 in FF7? I'm not sure if that's a fanon number or not, but he can't be out of his 30s in FF7. If you assume the popularized/logical number of 30 as Sephiroth's FF7 age, then Rufus was not yet born or a toddler when Vincent was a Turk, and if you assume the recent implication of 25ish as Sephiroth's FF7 age (and Vincent only sleeping for 23 years), and Rufus as maybe 35 in FF7, then he still would have been 12 when Vincent was a Turk.

Any way you prefer to do the math, he was a child, or nonexistant.

And with that, I'll only reiterate that we have no way of knowing how shady the Turks were or were not when Vincent was one. It was many years before the next earliest glimpse of the Turks the compilation gives us, and ShinRa, Inc. was a different company with different goals and agendas (agendae?) before they were able to capitalize upon and monopolize the market for Mako energy.

I did compare them to the CIA/secret service before, underscoring that they were not inherently corrupt, but merely serving the greater purpose of providing protection and intelligence to the company.

It's difficult to back off when I have a very valid point and you're all telling me I'm wrong.

I always had Heidegger (sp?? Never know if it's a -degger or -deggar) pegged as the head of the Turks at that time, or the insufferable pr*ck PA of the head...

We have absolutely no idea period of what ShinRa were like when they started. As all of the characters in-game have basically grown up with the ShinRa as an ever-present... presense, for all we know, the History of the ShinRa as presented in the first game could all be misinformation. (Great, now I'm turning into Fox Mulder...)

Yeah, but you later used the analogy of the police/cops/fuzz, so I thought you might have abandoned the earlier analogy (both of which were made between my posts), so I was reiterating it.

And I'm not telling you you're wrong, in part cos this is mostly all speculation, and partly cos you're a bit scary. (But we still love ya.)

Thanks for the fanart.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

The point was, you'd made a well thought-out arguement using the canon info, something the rest of us weren't.

..oh. ;

Well, and you were making the point with all the subtlety of an Amazon.

That's what I thought you meant.. xD

And I'm not telling you you're wrong, in part cos this is mostly all speculation, and partly cos you're a bit scary. (But we still love ya.)

*fidget* ;

I always had Heidegger (sp?? Never know if it's a -degger or -deggar) pegged as the head of the Turks at that time, or the insufferable pr*ck PA of the head...

Probably more likely. At least he's a lot older. I personally wonder if he really would have held that position for all that time, since Scarlet does say he's Tseng's boss in FF7 (Gongaga), but on the less practical and more evident side of the coin, I feel that Squeenix does like to reestablish things that they already used whether it makes sense in the given time frame or not.

 

[Mako]

Woo, it got really active in here! Such serious discussion, too. I'm lazy so here's my contribution:

Vincent SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!1! <3 <3 <3

Oh, and I'll share some Vinnie avatars (not made by me; I dunno who the credit goes to :/)

[quote author=Manti link=topic=221.msg6312#msg6312 date=1231267247]
Welcome back, Mako, Kamui. And Mako...is that avi from Persona4, or am I mistaken?[/quote]

Yup, it's Yosuke Hanamura. =D Tied with Naoto for my favorite character. It's an AMAZING game, I highly, highly recommend it.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Oooh, #4 is my favorite. =) I know they didn't edit it much, but they caught a very nice moment and look in his eyes there.

If anyone's looking for more 100x100 avatars, I'd suggest Gloriosa. In fact, it looks like the first one is there and was created by the site's webmistress, Stacey Anne. Some of the wallpapers I made are there as well (as "Raven&quot.

And some more fan art for the sharing:

As long as she's happy by nineshadows
Peek-A-Vince WIP by nineshadows

I've recommended something by NineShadows before— Something Borrowed, her fanfic about Vincent coping with Lucrecia's wedding in a less-than-healthy manner. It's very dark and the first piece of art I linked accompanies it.

So get to the readin'. :o

 

[Mantichorus]

[quote author=Mako link=topic=221.msg9232#msg9232 date=1232306669]Yup, it's Yosuke Hanamura. =D Tied with Naoto for my favorite character. It's an AMAZING game, I highly, highly recommend it.[/quote]I'm kinda part way through P3: FES at the moment, so I recognised the artwork. Once it comes out in the UK, I'm planning on getting Persona4. I've seen the English language trailer, and it looks awesome (I like the song - not as good as "Burn My Dread", though, IMHO).

Cool avatars, thanks for finding and sharing.

[quote author=Ravynne link=topic=221.msg9130#msg9130 date=1232209669]

The point was, you'd made a well thought-out arguement using the canon info, something the rest of us weren't.

..oh. ;

Well, and you were making the point with all the subtlety of an Amazon.

That's what I thought you meant.. xD[/quote]

[quote author=Ravynne link=topic=221.msg9130#msg9130 date=1232209669]

And I'm not telling you you're wrong, in part cos this is mostly all speculation, and partly cos you're a bit scary. (But we still love ya.)

*fidget* ;[/quote] Well, if you're gonna blush at that, we oughtta call off the group-glomp, or there'll be a case of not-so-spontaneous human combustion.

[quote author=Ravynne link=topic=221.msg9130#msg9130 date=1232209669]

I always had Heidegger (sp?? Never know if it's a -degger or -deggar) pegged as the head of the Turks at that time, or the insufferable pr*ck PA of the head...

Probably more likely. At least he's a lot older. I personally wonder if he really would have held that position for all that time, since Scarlet does say he's Tseng's boss in FF7 (Gongaga), but on the less practical and more evident side of the coin, I feel that Squeenix does like to reestablish things that they already used whether it makes sense in the given time frame or not.
[/quote]Yeah, that's about right. Retcon things that they think people might've missed/overlooked. ;D

I'll check those links (fanart/fic) out another time, when my connection speed isn't quite so slow.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Heidegger was only head of the Turks, post BC, when the Turks turned against Shinra and defeated Zirconaide.

Before, Heidegger wasn't the Turk's boss. In Vincent's time, we don't know who the leader of the Turks was, but they had the same position as Verdot did in BC. The Turks didn't start answering to Heidegger until shortly before FFVII began.

 

[Cloudskye]

[quote author=KamuiKeyblade link=topic=221.msg8411#msg8411 date=1231983232]
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=221.msg7428#msg7428 date=1231727491]
Actually no, bodies don't disappear when their spirit energy returns to the planet unless they're somehow no longer human, or a monster. Most normal corpses die like normal.

So coffins would be perfectly normal. Remember, you can see bones and stuff in the Shinra Manor basement.
[/quote]

That makes sense. Thank you Mako! *hugs*

At any rate I was thinking of making a Vincent tribute video, so any input for what I should do? Help, comments, suggestions, chocolate are all appreciated.


[/quote]

Hmm, Kam, it sounds like a good idea. (And I just noticed that the clubs section was here.)*gives chocolate* Me and a few of my friends have a youtube channel, so I could leave comments about it when you're done.

Oh, by the way. I'm joining this here club.

 

[Mantichorus]

Welcome to the Chaosbringers, Umbreon. Hope you enjoy your time with us. (And I promise, no Pokeballs.)

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=221.msg10506#msg10506 date=1232652956]
Heidegger was only head of the Turks, post BC, when the Turks turned against Shinra and defeated Zirconaide.

Before, Heidegger wasn't the Turk's boss. In Vincent's time, we don't know who the leader of the Turks was, but they had the same position as Verdot did in BC. The Turks didn't start answering to Heidegger until shortly before FFVII began.[/quote]Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up, Makoeyes987.

Just checked the fanarts, Ravy - wow, one of Vincent with stubble. :o There's a first. And you shoulda given me a warning about the second one...this is a public access PC, y'know...

OK, here's a fanart I've found - don't know who did it I'm afraid, cos I found it on a mass image sharing site. I've put it into my photobucket account cos the, uh, place I found it had some pictures of questionable content. X(

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a80/Mantichorus/91f5b793dedf86d9216be4e217f50811bd6.jpg

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Just checked the fanarts, Ravy - wow, one of Vincent with stubble. There's a first. And you shoulda given me a warning about the second one...this is a public access PC, y'know...

Haha, I didn't think it was racy enough. You should read the fanfic that goes with the first one. make sure you enlarge the text so people behind you can see it, and open it up somewhere really embarrassing, like church or something. Oh, and read aloud. Just act it out.

Yes, the stubble pic is pretty amazing. Really gives you an idea of the man falling apart, but the look in his eyes is still so strong and intense—he's determined to hold himself together.

OK, here's a fanart I've found - don't know who did it I'm afraid, cos I found it on a mass image sharing site. I've put it into my photobucket account cos the, uh, place I found it had some pictures of questionable content. X(

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a80/Mantichorus/91f5b793dedf86d9216be4e217f50811bd6.jpg

Oh that's really cool, interesting style. =) And the Red XIII fanclub just shared the same image, I believe.

 

[Kamui]

Welcome back my little sister! *hugs Umbreon*

Going to the Vincent with stubble... I now have a terrifying image in my head of Vincent with Heidegger's beard. I hate you people.

So my friend and I, along with my mom, came up with a skit for SWACE. Which makes me think about a strange picture, Vincent in the Fourth Doctor's scarf. That said I am not playing Vincent in the skit, which makes me sad, but I will be playing Zack. If anyone wants to see the script then PM me. And that reminds me that I do have some fanarts that I need to get up.

Other than that, I just need to get a new Vincent shirt. Ever since someone stole it from me. :-\

 

[VivaLaValenwind]

Oh my...Vincent with facial hair is a big fat NO! There are some men in this world who can pull off facial hair and he's not one of them Although he is damn good looking still :p

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Whaaaaat? D: The stubble is hot! I mean, not a look he should rock all the time, but... A rare glimpse of him a tad unhinged = sexy. The man does have to shave if he's, you know, a man.

In other news, I have been requested to draw fan art in which he is not. o_o Stay tuned. Hopefully there will be lulz.

 

[Arianna]

Ugh! I've been away too long.

@ Ravynne: Nice art; thanks!

@ Manti: Group hug!? How was this conspired without me knowing. ;D

[quote author=Ravynne link=topic=221.msg8786#msg8786 date=1232081262]

I think I have to go with Manti's idea here. The Turks seemed not really to know what their mission was either, just if something was asked of them, they did it - no questions asked. It was Rufus who was their head, and that kind of mentality seems to be more of what Rufus would want from subordinates: Don't think, do. We know from the original game that he believed that, and so wanted, to rule the world with fear was the most economical (anything else?) way to go. He didn't believe that anyone below him (and everyone pretty much was, except his father) deserved to be educated and to do so would only be trivial. Now, I'm not sure who created the Turks (again, I thought that was originally credited to Rufus, though I am guessing I'm wrong here), but it seems they were covert from the beginning. I'm not sure of who to compare them too - CIA could be one, Secret Service (USA), FBI - but they were a mix of all of these groups; also, they had a function that seemed to be like the clean up crew for hot item Shinra activity.

Rufus was not the "head" of the Turks when Vincent was one. For some reason, I want to say Rufus was 28 in FF7? I'm not sure if that's a fanon number or not, but he can't be out of his 30s in FF7. If you assume the popularized/logical number of 30 as Sephiroth's FF7 age, then Rufus was not yet born or a toddler when Vincent was a Turk, and if you assume the recent implication of 25ish as Sephiroth's FF7 age (and Vincent only sleeping for 23 years), and Rufus as maybe 35 in FF7, then he still would have been 12 when Vincent was a Turk. ... And with that, I'll only reiterate that we have no way of knowing how shady the Turks were or were not when Vincent was one. It was many years before the next earliest glimpse of the Turks the compilation gives us, and ShinRa, Inc. was a different company with different goals and agendas (agendae?) before they were able to capitalize upon and monopolize the market for Mako energy. ... I did compare them to the CIA/secret service before, underscoring that they were not inherently corrupt, but merely serving the greater purpose of providing protection and intelligence to the company. ... It's difficult to back off when I have a very valid point and you're all telling me I'm wrong.[/quote]

I'm not saying your wrong; I was wrong with the 'disrespect' part of this debate, and I gave you that credit.

True, your logic for Rufus' age does make a lot of sense; I am once again wrong on that point - he couldn't have headed up the Turks if so young. As well, Before Crisis and Last Order (hinted at in the latter) do mention Verdot as the head before Tseng took over.

What makes me wonder just how much influence Rufus has on the Turks is in regards to an early picture done for the original game, in where Rufus is at the fore and Reno, Rude, Tseng, and Elena are behind him, in a 'V' shape, two to each side of him. Perhaps this was intended to be after he was president?

So again, I go back to speculation. That's all. If I am wrong, I admit it and place it before everyone that I am. I was guessing more so Rufus was the head due to that one early FFVII official artwork via Square. *shrugs*

[quote author=Ravynne link=topic=221.msg11342#msg11342 date=1233017680]Whaaaaat? D: The stubble is hot! I mean, not a look he should rock all the time, but... A rare glimpse of him a tad unhinged = sexy. The man does have to shave if he's, you know, a man.[/quote]

Well, unless he wishes to sport a mustache and a beard, he'll have to shave.

And I agree! I liked that picture; not so much for the unhinged part but because he still looks good... : :-\

 

[Cloudskye]

[quote author=KamuiKeyblade link=topic=221.msg11063#msg11063 date=1232896230]
Welcome back my little sister! *hugs Umbreon*

Going to the Vincent with stubble... I now have a terrifying image in my head of Vincent with Heidegger's beard. I hate you people.

So my friend and I, along with my mom, came up with a skit for SWACE. Which makes me think about a strange picture, Vincent in the Fourth Doctor's scarf. That said I am not playing Vincent in the skit, which makes me sad, but I will be playing Zack. If anyone wants to see the script then PM me. And that reminds me that I do have some fanarts that I need to get up.

Other than that, I just need to get a new Vincent shirt. Ever since someone stole it from me. :-\
[/quote]

*hugs Kam*

You had a Vincent shirt??? Sweet.

Fanarts? This I gotta see.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Vincent tribute I made awhile ago, hope you'll like it xd;

One Man Army
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LST2j0Zdnk"]YouTube - Vincent Valentine: ONE MAN ARMY[/ame]​

 

[Arianna]

Oops! Sorry, Umbreon - I saw your statement to join and I added you to the list yesterday. Welcome!

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Very nice video! =) Vincent sure is a badass, all right. Seriously, it gives me new appreciation for him.

Kinda almost inspires me to do my VinLu vid all over again, sigh. Yeah...almost.

 

[Mantichorus]

[quote author=Ravynne link=topic=221.msg10841#msg10841 date=1232802202]

Just checked the fanarts, Ravy - wow, one of Vincent with stubble. There's a first. And you shoulda given me a warning about the second one...this is a public access PC, y'know...

Haha, I didn't think it was racy enough. You should read the fanfic that goes with the first one. make sure you enlarge the text so people behind you can see it, and open it up somewhere really embarrassing, like church or something. Oh, and read aloud. Just act it out.

Yes, the stubble pic is pretty amazing. Really gives you an idea of the man falling apart, but the look in his eyes is still so strong and intense—he's determined to hold himself together.[/quote]Act it out by myself?! Anyway, I'm really bashful.

[quote author=Ravynne link=topic=221.msg10841#msg10841 date=1232802202]Oh that's really cool, interesting style. =) And the Red XIII fanclub just shared the same image, I believe.
[/quote]Wouldn't know anything about that, boss... *whistles*

@VIVA: I have no idea if I'm a guy who looks good with facial hair, but Kam thinks my chinwig suits me. XD But she could just be pulling my leg...

@RAVY (again): Great, a female clone of Vincent! This is gonna stray into X-23 territory... who knew a female clone of Wolverine would be so hot?

@ARI: no group hugz, a group glomp. Altogether more scary. XD RAWR! Hey, it was conspired with only me knowing...

@SPIRIT CHASER: thanks for sharing, I'll have to check it out Saturday.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

More specifically, Manti, a female Vincent and a still very female Lucrecia as lesbians. I hope to make it as comical as possible. I giggle just at the thought, but I've got so much on my little fangirl plate right now as it is.

Actually, if Lucrecia weren't in the pic, I think it would be hilarious for girl!Vincent to have his hair done up in a Lucrecia-style ponytail with his headband as the ribbon. I have this theory that if he ever crossdressed, he would try to mimic her because he's so obsessed with her.

It should worry you that I think about these things.

We should all doodle some fan art of Vincent as a woman as a club exercise. xD

 

[Mantichorus]

XD So, was Vincent born female in that reality, or did Hojo add the TG virus to Vincent's meals on the sly? C'mon, what's the story/logic behind it?

Umm, surely that should be her hair? But yeah, if the male Vincent did crossdress, he probably would. You should maybe do an art of him being caught going through her things, trying them on.

It worries me pretty much, period. Especially as I have a feeling that I'll find the female Vincent extremely attractive. XD

I can't draw! Or, not very well...

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Here's some art that relates to our recent topic of the connection between Vincent and Sephiroth:

Light or Dark by ~Tiikeri

The two men most important to Lucrecia: one evil with the image of an angel, and one good with the image of a demon. I don't think that was an accident.

 

[Kamui]

Amen to that not being a coincidence, however my mind has now jumped to my 15th birthday present. Not gonna say how that turned out, however you all know me, so you can guess.

*puts picture as background*

And as to the random yuri fic, I would so read it. Wait i just said that out loud didn't I... Cross-dressing Vincent :o ... Well I blame the pain meds, lowering inhibitions and all that. Busted up my shoulder and elbow quite nicely, so yeah. I fail.

Finally amen to the need of fan arts! I will work with diligence and do everything to ignore my thesis!

 

[Arianna]

Ravynne finds all the good pictures. ;D *thumbs up*

Thanks! That's actually an interesting - although slightly bothersome (to me) - picture of Chaos!Vincent and Sephiroth.

Now... Cross dressing, trans-gendered Vincent?! :o

Well, that idea is original, I would say! I never came across that idea before...

PS: Ravynne, are we okay on the debating? Again, I felt perhaps you were taking me a little to seriously, or perhaps I was taking you as very hurt...?

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Lol, Ari, I'd forgotten about it. We're fine. /hug

Ravynne is a deviantART bum who is way too obsessed with FF7 for a 24 year old woman, that's why Ravynne finds all the good pictures. =( Though I fervently maintain that I just need a distraction right now. Anyhooooo—

So why is the image of Chaos!Vin and Safer Sephiroth unsettling to you? It does have a slightly shonon-ai tone to it, if that could be it, though I appreciate it as them just being metaphorically close (not even emotionally close, of course—but what they both symbolize is very, very linked). Do they appear too intimate to you, or is it something else?