ChaosBringers, Reborn!

[Mantichorus]

Ehrgeiz is pretty awesome, especially some of the character artwork. Hell, back on ACF, Vincent's pic from Ehrgeiz was my first avatar.

What's weird is his special move involves him shooting bullets that impose his limit breaks over his target. "Chaos Impact!" (Wait, wrong game.)

I don't know how I'd react to Steve Blum phoning me... but he'd probably start laughing when I started asking him about his script work on Digimon. I'd much prefer Michelle Ruff phoning me... either as Nagato Yuki, or Etna.

And he would sound like an old man- he's technically the oldest in Avalanche (aside from Nanaki) but that's okay.

Actually, I think Vincent's something like seven years older than Nanaki... And I meant sound like an old man as in "kids today, you don' know how to fight... le' ol' Vincent show ye, heehee..."

Oh, and Kam - how does that ringtone thing work, then? You'll have to scan the article or something (my ringtone is "Calling" - WEWY, not AC).

 

[Smaddy]

I'd lean more toward the Mario song. But it would be the "underground" theme as opposed to the above-ground theme.

I was so hoping Steve Blum would be at one of the conventions I went to this year, but nooooo....

And see I don't think Vincent would talk like an old man ("damn kids keep off my lawn" and so forth). He always kind of struck me as being young at heart. In the flashbacks of him as a Turk he seemed to act more like a bashful teen than a 27 year old (or mid-20s, depending on when those flashbacks are from).

I had a thought/question in my mind (uh-oh)- I could be mistaken so please point me in the right direction if I'm remembering/assuming wrong-

It bothered me that the Compilation never addressed the fact that Vincent told Lucrecia that Sephiroth was dead. Did she ever find out the truth? Would it be an issue if she found out Vincent helped destroy Sephiroth? And does Vincent feel as though it's a sin to kill Lucrecia's son?

She's not dead, so she wouldn't meet Seph in the Lifestream... but in her state, wasn't she at times able to project herself to Vincent in DOC (and I'm not talking about memory fragments from Shelke)?

 

[Mantichorus]

And see I don't think Vincent would talk like an old man ("damn kids keep off my lawn" and so forth). He always kind of struck me as being young at heart. In the flashbacks of him as a Turk he seemed to act more like a bashful teen than a 27 year old (or mid-20s, depending on when those flashbacks are from).

Lol, well, I was only saying I thought it would be funny, not that was how he was. Also, remember his reaction when you're on the train heading to Coral...

VINCENT (at Cid): "AHHH, stop it, you crazy old man!"

As for your thought... well, I've considered that before myself. And come to absolutely no conclusion. It works both ways, too, though - surely Sephiroth would have become aware of Lucrecia being his mother due to being in the Lifestream sooo much?

As for whether Vincent feels it's a sin... well, let's see what he says...

"Defeat Sephiroth... Defeat the son of that beloved woman. Am I on the verge of committing another sin? Or am I atoning as best I can for only watching?"

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

I'd ask Steve Blum to talk dirty to me. And to pronounce "Lucrecia" correctly.

It bothered me that the Compilation never addressed the fact that Vincent told Lucrecia that Sephiroth was dead. Did she ever find out the truth? Would it be an issue if she found out Vincent helped destroy Sephiroth? And does Vincent feel as though it's a sin to kill Lucrecia's son?

[plug]see my doujin. in about...two chapters.[/plug]

 

[Smaddy]

Lol, well, I was only saying I thought it would be funny, not that was how he was. Also, remember his reaction when you're on the train heading to Coral...

VINCENT (at Cid): "AHHH, stop it, you crazy old man!"

As for your thought... well, I've considered that before myself. And come to absolutely no conclusion. It works both ways, too, though - surely Sephiroth would have become aware of Lucrecia being his mother due to being in the Lifestream sooo much?

As for whether Vincent feels it's a sin... well, let's see what he says...

"Defeat Sephiroth... Defeat the son of that beloved woman. Am I on the verge of committing another sin? Or am I atoning as best I can for only watching?"

The part where Cid is leader is the best. And most playthrough videos on youtube do have Vincent in those parts.

Actually my favorite is the one video where Cloud and Cid freak out about being in the Submarine, and Vincent just hops over, presses some buttons and says something like, "I'm not an expert in machines, but I think we're moving now."

But could Sephiroth find out that Lucrecia is really his mother through the Lifestream? And obviously spending 5 years in Lifestream "limbo" in the Northern Crater did nothing, as he still believed Jenova was his mother. Likewise, the 2 year span between FF7 & AC/C did little, as Sephiroth's spawn still called Jenova "mother".

I assume if Seph had somehow found out Lucrecia is his mother, he may have mellowed out somewhat. And he probably would have gone after Hojo's lying ass.

The more I think about it, the more that's a complicated issue. Hojo's in the Lifestream in 'Case of Lifestream White', so hmm. (But how can that be if his consciousness is in the Network or whatever they say in DOC? *shakes fist at Compilation*) You wonder. But Seph & Hojo never meet in the Lifestream. And Lucrecia, we don't know if she's in the Lifestream or has access to it due to where she is. Assuming that since she's in a crystal, kind of like how Seph was, would she have access to the Lifestream like Seph did?

And thank you for that quote. It's been about 10 years since I've been able to play FF7, so some parts of it are fuzzy. Back in the day, I knew it all, because I always played with Cid and Vincent in the party. XD

I still wonder what Lucrecia thought/would think if she knew, though.

And really, overall, I just need to vent that I'm annoyed by DOC and what they did with it. But that's a whole 'nother post.

@ Ravynne- that would be nice. The closest things you've already linked ("I'm too sexy" and "Col Mustang is dead sexy ... in a miniskirt"). Geez, how can a voice be so hot? (lol)

I'm just glad Blum did Vincent's voice justice, for the most part. I'm extremely picky over stuff like that, and I was disappointed by Cid's English voice. Vincent's Japanese voice in DOC was better than the English, but his Japanese voice in AC was worse than Blum, I think. (Now I sit waiting on Kefka's English Dissidia voice.)

 

[Arianna]

Welcome back Ravynne!

Also, it makes him sound a bit like an old man.

This makes me think of that old commercial - I forget what it was about - where some elderly men were sitting in a booth next to some teenagers, and they were one-upping each other. Anyhow, the last line I recall is: "Feet? You had feet?" I loved that commercial. Why it makes me think of that, I have no clue.

I'd ask Steve Blum to talk dirty to me. And to pronounce "Lucrecia" correctly.

I'd probably waste 10 minutes of both our lives going 'nu-uh!' lol Seriously, I would question the call.

But could Sephiroth find out that Lucrecia is really his mother through the Lifestream? And obviously spending 5 years in Lifestream "limbo" in the Northern Crater did nothing, as he still believed Jenova was his mother. Likewise, the 2 year span between FF7 & AC/C did little, as Sephiroth's spawn still called Jenova "mother".

Just speculation on my part: I can't help but feel that information came to Sephiroth and he ignored it/keeps silent about it, or because of the fact that his will and his genetic makeup do make him somewhat a being apart, perhaps that knowledge can't reach him.

I don't believe there's any official stance about this, in the Ultimanias or the OTWTAS stories.

 

[Smaddy]

Just speculation on my part: I can't help but feel that information came to Sephiroth and he ignored it/keeps silent about it, or because of the fact that his will and his genetic makeup do make him somewhat a being apart, perhaps that knowledge can't reach him.

I don't believe there's any official stance about this, in the Ultimanias or the OTWTAS stories.

There was one line where Seph goes, "My mother was Jenova, and my father... ... [he starts shaking/laughing?]" So you wonder if he knows Hojo is his father, or what? And I suppose maybe it wouldn't matter at the time of FF7/AC if Seph found out the truth. There are plenty of stories where kids are separated from their mothers at birth (through adoption, the mother abandons them, etc) and the kid/mother don't care for whatever reason.

Sorry, I didn't mean to derail this into a Seph/Lucrecia convo. But I do wonder, still.

It majorly bothers me in DOC how the relationship between Lucrecia and Vincent is depicted. I thought they should've showed more scenes where they're loving toward each other. As it stands, she's mostly awkward toward him (for good enough reasons, I suppose), and I think he's left looking like either a semi-stalker or a lost puppy.

I didn't like how they retconned on the Grimoire angle, at all. I understand why it was done, but that angle didn't really add much to it. It really turned into a blatant plot device.

This is all the more reason why we need OTWTAS Vincent. But then you'd open the book up, the first page is, "..." and the rest of the book is empty. And then at the end:

"Editor's note: Vincent just gave me this look like I had 3 heads when I asked him to tell me his story and what he's been up to for the past few years since the Jenova War."

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

I'm not "back." But Smaddy, if you need clarification on these things, feel free to PM me about it.

 

[Arianna]

I'm not "back." But Smaddy, if you need clarification on these things, feel free to PM me about it.

Still, it's good to see you.

 

[Mantichorus]

And to pronounce "Lucrecia" correctly.

That really bugs you, doesn't it? And here I was thinking it was just me who got irked about that...

Good to see you here again. It's been too long.

And thank you for that quote. It's been about 10 years since I've been able to play FF7, so some parts of it are fuzzy. Back in the day, I knew it all, because I always played with Cid and Vincent in the party. XD

I could only remember the phrases "sin" and "beloved woman". So I put them into Google along with "Vincent Valentine".

Ha, my favourite line of Vincent's in the sub has to be at the end: "First by sea, now by air? What a busy day..." Of course, if you have Cloud and Yuffie in your party, the pair of them start puking in the corner. Hmm, I wonder if you had Vincent and Nanaki in your party at the sub, which would freak? *ponders*

Oh, and I believe Sephiroth knew Hojo was his father, despite Hojo seeming to think he didn't at the cannon. The, ah, "Professor" seems a bit slow on the uptake. Or possibly just senile.

I'd probably waste 10 minutes of both our lives going 'nu-uh!' lol Seriously, I would question the call.

With me, knowing how verbose I am (especially on the phone), Blum would probably think he'd called the real Vincent by accident.

BLUM (Vincent voice): "Hello."
ME: "...Hm? "

 

[Kamui]

Hey all! I've escaped the confines of school and have great news! I'm gonna write my thesis on FFVII and Neil Gaiman, but I do need some FF experts! So I will be calling on your expertise in the future, Vincent related questions will be here and others will be PMs and/or emails.

Anyway! Onto submarining adventure... I think that at some point in the Turks they did have a course in basic machine operation. Otherwise it will be difficult to get away if your only mode of escape is by submarine! But I do love how Cid, the pilot, flips out, while Vincent drives... Hmm... now if Vincent rode in the buggy...

Lastly, newest video idea is Vincent to

Spoiler

Safe and Sound from ACC

and if anyone wants the song out of an effort at civil disobedience, PM me and I can sent it to you.

 

[Smaddy]

Hey all! I've escaped the confines of school and have great news! I'm gonna write my thesis on FFVII and Neil Gaiman, but I do need some FF experts! So I will be calling on your expertise in the future, Vincent related questions will be here and others will be PMs and/or emails.

What a cool thesis! Good luck with it.

Anyway! Onto submarining adventure... I think that at some point in the Turks they did have a course in basic machine operation. Otherwise it will be difficult to get away if your only mode of escape is by submarine! But I do love how Cid, the pilot, flips out, while Vincent drives... Hmm... now if Vincent rode in the buggy...

That makes sense, actually. But yeah, I agree that it's hilarious that the leader Cloud goes nuts (claustrophobia), the pilot Cid basically has a nic fit, and Vincent's kind of like "ok. guess I'll fix it." I guess somewhere I picked up a slight misconception that Vincent is not into technology due to sleeping for 30 years, but I guess that's not the case.

Another question up for grabs-
If there was a OTWTAS "Case of Vincent", what do you think the plot would be like? There is only one main 'canon' thing that we know happens

Spoiler

Case of Nanaki

, then the rest is kind of referred to a little

Spoiler

That he kind of follows the Turks around and travels all over the place & that he investigates the Remnants at the Ancient City.

.

 

[Arianna]

That really bugs you, doesn't it? And here I was thinking it was just me who got irked about that...

That or they spell it right. *shrugs*

 

[Mantichorus]

Another question up for grabs-
If there was a OTWTAS "Case of Vincent", what do you think the plot would be like? There is only one main 'canon' thing that we know happens

Spoiler

Case of Nanaki

, then the rest is kind of referred to a little

Spoiler

That he kind of follows the Turks around and travels all over the place & that he investigates the Remnants at the Ancient City.

.

Well, I started writing a fanfic where Vincent actually went and found Cerberus during that time frame. Then DC came out and ruined how I'd written the confrontation between Vincent and Hojo in the Manor all those years ago. Plus, I realised Vincent has Cerberus in the flashback to the fight against Sephiroth in VII at the beginning of AC.

That or they spell it right. *shrugs*

Good point. Actually, the pronunciation in the English version in DC seems to be based on how they spelt Lucrecia in hiragana/katakana... did they use the "tsu" character?

...OK, off-topic. I'll shut up.

On topic, I may have finally got my original Vincent AMV ready for viewing. Hopefully it'll now get uploaded by youtube. I should be able to post it on Saturday. *fingers crossed* Also, I've created a couple others, including a slightly bizarre DC trailer...

And finally... back to what would I say if Steve Blum rang me... well, if it occured to me, I would have him say "This does not bode well..." Why? Well, it's kind of become Vincent's unofficial catchphrase with me, as everytime I've tried to write a humorous fic over the last few years, Vincent inevitably says it, whether I plan on him saying it or not!

 

[Smaddy]

Well, I started writing a fanfic where Vincent actually went and found Cerberus during that time frame. Then DC came out and ruined how I'd written the confrontation between Vincent and Hojo in the Manor all those years ago. Plus, I realised Vincent has Cerberus in the flashback to the fight against Sephiroth in VII at the beginning of AC.

You should just write it anyhow. I'm actually half-tempted to re-write DOC's storyline so it doesn't sound like some 16 year old's horrible fanfic. (IMO it literally even has the perfect Mary Sue in it- Shelke.) Thank goodness for the ratings system, spares us the slash scene or whatever.

Good point. Actually, the pronunciation in the English version in DC seems to be based on how they spelt Lucrecia in hiragana/katakana... did they use the "tsu" character?

That bugged me slightly before, now it really kinda bothers me. You'd think they'd brief Blum on the correct pronunciation of her name- she's only Vincent's entire reason for existing (literally)...

Okay, and yet another thought- At the end of DOC, what exactly happened? There's no point to really questioning it, I admit, but I'm still trying to wrap my brain around it.

Spoiler

Chaos defeated Omega. You see the red Lifestream floating down- representing Chaos, I assume. You see the Cerberus charm hanging from the rubble. I'm trying to figure out, so did Vincent return to the Lifestream, or what? How did he end up back in the Waterfall Grotto?

In some ways, it's kind of funny how the end of AC/C parallels the end of DOC, in terms of how

Spoiler

Cloud and Vincent "die" and then come back seemingly with the influence of the important women in their lives

.

 

[Mantichorus]

Hmm, well, I may resurrect it. I did start rewriting it, basing it instead during the week at the end of disc 2 (between fighting Hojo at the cannon and confronting Sephiroth at the Northern Crater). Again, however, my own fanon got in the way, and it opens with Vincent telling Chaos to shut up.

The demon then points out this is the thirty-sixth time today Vincent has told him to shut up. Which leads Vincent to say it for the thirty-seventh time.

Okay, and yet another thought- At the end of DOC, what exactly happened? There's no point to really questioning it, I admit, but I'm still trying to wrap my brain around it.

Spoiler

Chaos defeated Omega. You see the red Lifestream floating down- representing Chaos, I assume. You see the Cerberus charm hanging from the rubble. I'm trying to figure out, so did Vincent return to the Lifestream, or what? How did he end up back in the Waterfall Grotto?

I don't know, but I always took it that

Spoiler

the majority of the Chaos "charge" dispersed itself back into the Lifestream, the Protomateria returning with it (for when it was next needed) (although, I ignore this for one fanfic idea I'm working on, where it falls through a dimensional rift. Hilarity ensues). The Chaos energy remaining "rebuilt" Vincent's form. He then swiftly left after ensuring the others he was alive.

However so long afterwards, Shelke points out he probably went to see Lucrecia, wherever she may be. Cid gives them all a lift there, and they find Vincent leaving.

Note: any words I say like "this", means I can't think of a better way to put it.

 

[Kamui]

Hmm well as to the discussion of the end of DoC

Spoiler

I think that the way that he got there was that when Vincent got caught up in the explosion, his body disappated in the Lifestream but he reformed in Lucrecia's cavern. Which would give him one more reason to thank her for saving him.

Or my other theory is he reforms back at the roof of the Shin-Ra building, stands up and scratches his head. "Well that was a nice distraction." This one is less likely but I now know that the ending is slightly strange unless part of the theory that he reformed in Midgar is true. If you watch the end after the credits you can find Cerberus (keychain) on the end of his gun. In one fanfic I wrote it ended up being the keychain to a keyblade, so Vincent handed it off saying that he could always get it back later.

And on another note, I get the impression that Vincent is one amazing poker player. I think I was channelling him when I got involved in my very first game of five card stud. I beat my stepdad, the card shark master, and walked away with the equivalent of $300 in the candy we used as chips. Quiet, unassuming, and a neutral expression, sounds like Vincent to me.

 

[Mantichorus]

Hmm well as to the discussion of the end of DoC

Spoiler

I think that the way that he got there was that when Vincent got caught up in the explosion, his body disappated in the Lifestream but he reformed in Lucrecia's cavern. Which would give him one more reason to thank her for saving him.

Or my other theory is he reforms back at the roof of the Shin-Ra building, stands up and scratches his head. "Well that was a nice distraction." This one is less likely but I now know that the ending is slightly strange unless part of the theory that he reformed in Midgar is true. If you watch the end after the credits you can find Cerberus (keychain) on the end of his gun. In one fanfic I wrote it ended up being the keychain to a keyblade, so Vincent handed it off saying that he could always get it back later.

Or, alternatively,

Spoiler

Vincent woke up in a strange land with no memory of who he was. However, he still had the feeling that he oughtta compulsively chase the silver haired guy he saw there. Ceberus had mutated into some sort of MAteriaGUN, and kept freezing and thawing, and...

...y'know, it's just easier to say Kaze from Final Fantasy: Unlimited is Vincent. OK, haven't seen the whole series yet, so anyone who has will have good arguments as to why he's not, but the way he reacts to hearing the word "Chaos"?

And on another note, I get the impression that Vincent is one amazing poker player. I think I was channelling him when I got involved in my very first game of five card stud. I beat my stepdad, the card shark master, and walked away with the equivalent of $300 in the candy we used as chips. Quiet, unassuming, and a neutral expression, sounds like Vincent to me.

LOL, well done! However, Vincent would be beaten in a card game by the master of the blank look - Keanu Reeves! Seriously, watched Constantine over the weekend - Vincent has more facial espressions in DC's opening movie than Keanu does over the whole film.

 

[Smaddy]

Keanu might win versus Vincent, but Vincent is a bit of a poor loser. He'd get angry and start to transform. Everyone would scurry away, and he'd change back, laughing as he gathered up the betting pool money.

 

[Kamui]

XD Fantastic, and I know this bit should probably go into a different thread but I turned in my research question! So PM me if you know of any academic essays about the FF series!

Having not seen Final Fantasy Unlimited, I can't say I know what to make of the comparison. Therefore I will smile and not.

And Vincent would totally wipe the floor with Keanu Reeves, unless he cosplayed Reeve to divert attention. Which would be totally brilliant! I anticipate total abuse of the bullet time feature. Either that or I will have caught the whole thing on camera, which is totally amazing. XD

Anyone else think I should do Turk Vincent for my colloquium presentation? Either that or I will be wearing a suit of armor.

 

[Arianna]

Keanu might win versus Vincent, but Vincent is a bit of a poor loser. He'd get angry and start to transform. Everyone would scurry away, and he'd change back, laughing as he gathered up the betting pool money.

Off, yet on, topic: And then Arianna would come in, ask for some - perhaps whine, and then go shopping! lol

Arianna = my alter-ego, for gaming, and my fan-character who is Vincent's adult daughter.

 

[Cloudskye]

Off, yet on, topic: And then Arianna would come in, ask for some - perhaps whine, and then go shopping! lol

Arianna = my alter-ego, for gaming, and my fan-character who is Vincent's adult daughter.

Vincent has a daughter?? Who's the mom?

 

[Kamui]

Ah fun times, fun times, because then I swoop in and fight. Then we all go for drinks at the end.

In Vincent related news, my mom and I were discussing about how my jacket makes me look like a purple Vincent. And I can't wait to do my Vincent part of my thesis!!! XD See because at one point I'm gonna discuss how human the characters are because even the serious ones have comedic moments. Like the submarine moment we were talking about earlier, and the moment in Dirge when he finds out it's Cait in Reeve's clothing.

Also I had to post the single most idiotic, on-topic comment from YouTube I have ever stumbled across: "You do know Lucrecia is Vincent's mother." It's so stupid it makes no sense to me, especially considering that Vincent's three years older than Lucrecia.

 

[Cloudskye]

Ah fun times, fun times, because then I swoop in and fight. Then we all go for drinks at the end.

Also I had to post the single most idiotic, on-topic comment from YouTube I have ever stumbled across: "You do know Lucrecia is Vincent's mother." It's so stupid it makes no sense to me, especially considering that Vincent's three years older than Lucrecia.

Ahh... The head of the Vincent fan club is back!

...3 years...? Is that even possible?

 

[Mantichorus]

Keanu might win versus Vincent, but Vincent is a bit of a poor loser. He'd get angry and start to transform. Everyone would scurry away, and he'd change back, laughing as he gathered up the betting pool money.

No, that wouldn't happen. Seriously, just no. ...Unless...

KEANU: "Huh. So, yeah. Looks like I won. Pay up, Vincent."
VINCENT: "...Very well. ...Keanu? As a gesture of good will, winner to loser, could you do me a favour?"
KEANU: "Uh, sure."
VINCENT: "Thank you. Please, put on this white coat. And now, these glasses. Ah, and finally, this...wig."
KEANU (weirded out): "Uh, OK." *puts it all on. He now looks the splitting image of Hojo*
VINCENT: *eye twitches* *starts growling* "NyyyaaaaaahhHHH-HO-JOOOOOO!"

Later:

SHELKE: "Vincent, Reeve and the others sent me over with Chi-nese...?" *looks at the mess* "Did someone beat you at poker again?"
VINCENT: "...Yes."
SHELKE: "Hmmm... I had best report this to the Commissioner."
VINCENT: "....Shelke? Would you wear this coat for me a moment? And, these glasses? Ah, and finally..."

Of course, at this point, Kamui Haruhi will stop molesting Jen Mikuru, and bring in Yuki to return everything to normal.

...See because at one point I'm gonna discuss how human the characters are because even the serious ones have comedic moments. Like the submarine moment we were talking about earlier, and the moment in Dirge when he finds out it's Cait in Reeve's clothing...

LOL, so, similar to what you did back in high school, with your Frankenstein comparison?

Ahh... The head of the Vincent fan club is back!

Ari's the head of the club. Kamui supplies the refreshments, though.