Character Directions Post-DoC

[Shademp]

Allright, another "Let's imagine FFVII:EC" thread.

Regardless of the form the primary threat in the story takes, what events & changes do you think the characters (both old and new) should go through in order for the Compilation to supply the fans with an even greater pay-off for this expansion of the FFVII universe?
Also, if the title is a game, how might these character events be reflected in gameplay?

You may begin by stating any general premise of the story and timeline. I will assume, unless otherwise stated, that most people want a grand game to finish the story.

-------------------------------------------------------
Time passed after DoC: 4-6 years.
Having Denzel be between 13-15 years old starts making it more feasible that his "I want to fight to protect people" arc can manifest in him getting into more fights, regardless of whether he'd be a playable character.

Character: Tifa Lockhart
Voices have been raised in this forum against the Compilation's take on Tifa as being content with a "simple" family life. I believe this criticism to be justified. A powerful warrior like her should have more energy and motivation stored within her than to take care of kids and clean glasses all day.

That said, I can see her wanting a few years of peace to make up for all the past trauma and guilt. 4-6 years after DoC Tifa has become very restless and frustrated. She doesn't know what to do with life and can't pin down exactly why she is dissatisfied.
This changes when a fellow student of Zangan-style fighting arrives at Seventh Heaven. After a long conversation and an intense sparring session with this fellow fighter she realises that, despite her being such an adept fighter, she has let her skill and the teachings of Zangan go to waste. She wants to set up a martial arts dojo in Edge, but does not know how to do so and she wants to find more of Zangan's students.


The main game has the playable character visit towns all over the world of FFVII. Talk to NPCs at the right time and place to come across Zangan's students and direct them to Tifa. A total of maybe 10 fighters must be found before this sidequest is completed.
As each new fighter arrives in Edge you get to see how the plans for the martial arts dojo comes closer to fruition. One fighter brings an old photo of Zangan, others arrive with official training books and illustrations which had also been lost to Tifa after Nibelheim was burnt down.

The fate of Zangan remains unknown throughout the entire game. I believe this is important to preserve the sense of mystery from the original game. What matters is that his style (and his philosophies, whatever those may have been) becomes preserved.

When the sidequest is done, or near to that point, an issue that is raised is just who will replace Tifa in Seventh Heaven now that she will be busy teaching martial arts. The issue is quickly solved when Johnny, whose bar "Johonny's Heaven" has gone out of business partially due to redirecting too many customers to Seventh Heaven, starts working at Tifa's bar instead.

Rewards from sidequest:
- Cutscenes showing Tifa battling the newly arrived fighters. The final fight, at the very least, has her using a new limit break even more powerful (and over-the-top) than Final Heaven.
- New fighting moves taught to one of the playable characters.
- Completing the sidequest unlocks a scene during the ending credits which shows Tifa training a big group. In the last seconds we see Marlene at the front of the group, following Tifa's moves with great attention.

More actual non-cutscene rewards would have to be added to approve this as a gameplay-element but I can't think of more rewards at this moment. A big part of the reward is to see Tifa growing stronger than ever before.
This would also be a good chance to see her in a training get-up, rather than just her AC outfit which I consider to be very bland.

Something else that may not be a cutscene but might happen during normal gameplay is to see a crouching Tifa sparring with Marlene. This would be too cute to miss out on.

 

[Octo]

I dunno if I can be as in depth as you Shademp but here are my brain thoughts and maybe others can pad it out a little. May contain headcanon/jibberish

Rufus and the Turks 4-6 years post DoC

Shinra still manages to make money, because a) the general public are pretty stupid and b) a lot of shrewd marketing techniques and spin. I would imagine Shinra set up a few 'dummy' companies under other names manufacuring various goods.

However Shinra as a company is nowhere near as powerful as it used to be, I think Rufus has begrudgingly learned that he will never recapture the former 'glory days' as the world is a very different place post-Meteor. This is not to say that the occasional dirty trick isn't pulled, after all, this is business

The Turks still run missions for Shinra on occasion, but this is mostly limited to espionage rather than breaking skulls. On the whole they do enjoy that they have a little more time for R&R but they are institutionalised, they know no other life other than 'Turking' and often get restless if many months go by without seeing any 'action'. As a result they have set up their own private investigations/security company.

Old Turks (BC) have now come out of the woodwork (now it is safe to do so) and some of them have resumed their old positions. Tseng visits Veld often, and still appreciates his mentors advice.

Thats all I can think of for now, I don't know how this would really fit in with a game though, suffice to see I would like to see Tseng included as a boss fight, even on an optional basis and it would be a really hard fight because he'd keep calling in fucking airstrikes all the time

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I would like it if the final entry in the Compilation could recapture some of the grittiness and truth of the original. For example... I would like to see Reeve become slowly corrupted by power, precisely because of his determination never to let the Planet be threatened by danger again. A good man gone bad in a good cause would make a great villain, especially if Avalanche have to be the ones to deal with him - Tifa, Cloud and the others would not want to see the truth, and Marlene and Denzel might have to take the lead. I would like to see the growth of a cult that reveres Aerith (a bit like the ones on tumblr!!), and then have this budding religion, which Cloud is drawn to, taken over by people wanting to exploit it for their own advantage (this, maybe, is where Shinra could come in?) Many fanfics have explored the idea that Rude was also one of Zangan's pupils, which I think is a neat idea; it would be fun to have him working together with Tifa to put the doujo together and round up their fellow students. Moral ambiguity and questionable alliances is the order of the day!

And Sephiroth should stay dead this time.

 

[Shademp]

I would like it if the final entry in the Compilation could recapture some of the grittiness and truth of the original.

Moral ambiguity and questionable alliances is the order of the day!

These are indeed good guidelines. With the old AVALANCHE members, WRO, Shinra/Turks, Genesis + minions, then potentially Denzel + kids and the Aerith cult you suggested there will be many factions and characters to follow. Without conflict between these, the fans will not be interested in keeping track of who is who. Good ideas indeed.

I would like to see the growth of a cult that reveres Aerith (a bit like the ones on tumblr!!), and then have this budding religion, which Cloud is drawn to, taken over by people wanting to exploit it for their own advantage (this, maybe, is where Shinra could come in?)

Elmyra's character could get some well-deserved attention and closure here as well. With her being drawn to this 'Church of Aerith', due to her missing her adopted daughter, it would be even more sensitive for AVALANCHE and the rest to interfere when Shinra uses the cult for their own gain.

I think that ultimately the cult should be dissolved and that one of the biggest blows to it is when Elmyra faces reality and understands that this religion is too disrespectful and does more harm to Aerith's legacy than good. A short but intense speech by Elmyra would be excellent to end the story of this woman.
(Please excuse the cheese factor of my ideas)

The cult idea also makes a lot of sense. Not everyone is just going to nod their heads like it was nothing special when they learn about Aerith's sacrifice for the planet, the fact that she summoned the cure for Geostigma and that she has spoken to people despite being "dead". This surely impacts the people of Gaia, the citizens of Edge especially, and shapes how they decide to view the connection between physical and spiritual.

Many fanfics have explored the idea that Rude was also one of Zangan's pupils, which I think is a neat idea; it would be fun to have him working together with Tifa to put the doujo together and round up their fellow students.

The idea is attractive for the sake of odd alliances, but I am unsure how well it pleases my eye to think that Rude is using "Zangan style" whenever I see him fight in OG and ACC. Could also be that he uses a mixed style of course, which would explain why his connection to Zangan would be a surprise to Tifa in FFVII:EC.

And Sephiroth should stay dead this time.

I think that one of the ultimate goals to be achieved in EC (whatever that abbreviation may stand for) is the cleansing/destruction of every single remaining Jenova cell worldwide.
I thusly think that one character should mention that unless this plan is executed via plot device X, there is the threat that Sephiroth may return even if takes a century or a millennia due to the weakness and diffusion of Jenova cells in the Lifestream. So yes, he should stay dead, but one of the achievements of EC should be the absolute reassurance that not a single cell of Sephiroth, Jenova or any mix inbetween will remain once the adventure is over.
That's what I would like, at least.

 

[Vendel]

Character: Tifa Lockhart
Voices have been raised in this forum against the Compilation's take on Tifa as being content with a "simple" family life. I believe this criticism to be justified. A powerful warrior like her should have more energy and motivation stored within her than to take care of kids and clean glasses all day.

That said, I can see her wanting a few years of peace to make up for all the past trauma and guilt. 4-6 years after DoC Tifa has become very restless and frustrated. She doesn't know what to do with life and can't pin down exactly why she is dissatisfied.
This changes when a fellow student of Zangan-style fighting arrives at Seventh Heaven. After a long conversation and an intense sparring session with this fellow fighter she realises that, despite her being such an adept fighter, she has let her skill and the teachings of Zangan go to waste. She wants to set up a martial arts dojo in Edge, but does not know how to do so and she wants to find more of Zangan's students.

Sweet Jesus. How much time/energy is Tifa supposed to have? Raising two kids and being the full-time owner/operator of a Bar & Grill shouldn't really leave her much time to take on yet another job.


And honestly this criticism of Tifa is completely unjustified.

 

[Unlucky]

Sweet Jesus. How much time/energy is Tifa supposed to have? Raising two kids and being the full-time owner/operator of a Bar & Grill shouldn't really leave her much time to take on yet another job.


And honestly this criticism of Tifa is completely unjustified.

I have to agree with Vendel here. I see Tifa as someone who will not hesitate to get into battle if her family's safety is at stake-- but she won't necessarily look for an outlet to test out her skills or anything of the sort. In CoT and AC it is heavily implied that Tifa strongly desires to have a family, therefore it's fairly reasonable and realistic for her to just want a peaceful family life.

I don't have problems with her character being 'housewife-y' at all. If anything else I just wished she had more kick-ass time (esp in the Bahamut fight) in AC, as well as in future titles. Other than that I don't have beef with her running 7th Heaven and looking after the children.

 

[Shademp]

An additional complaint that I've heard raised on this forum is that Tifa's story is almost solely related to Cloud. I can see where this comes from, when looking at how much of her plot is revolved around him in both OG and ACC. So even if the "housewife" criticism is not agreed with, I believe more people will agree that her character needs to be explored in new areas. The only subject of interest I could come up with is the question of how she relates to her martial arts training.

@Unlucky Pug
The story might be changed so that Tifa is not shown as being frustrated and that her meeting with the fellow Zangan student simply re-awakens her interest in martial arts. So I believe that the core idea of Tifa leaving behind Seventh Heaven to pursue a 'sensei' role does not necessarily have to contradict your view of Tifa's character.
She'd still have a family life of course.

 

[Elisa Maza]

I always thought that Tifa will raise Marlene and Denzel with martial arts and the other kids, seeing them being all badass would like to learn themselves, because we live in a post-apocalyptic world and all, so Tifa will eventually become a teacher herself, rediscovering her love for martial arts.

Alternatively, she could always become a businesswoman and create a whole chain of 7th Heaven-s, making herself insanely rich and supporting AVALANCHE and WRO financially, while she goes to kick ass only occasionally.

There are many ways someone can be bad ass.

... This is going to headdcanon area, but I regret nothing.

And this is getting in opinions, but I never saw Tifa as a warrior. Not even Cloud. Nor Barret. Especially Barret and Tifa were people who led shitty lives, while they had NORMAL ones in the beginning and were full of hate because they lost said normal lives. They were tough, sure, but not warriors, in my opinion.

Pre-crazy Sephiroth? Yes, that's a warrior.

Then again, I have my definition about warriors is rather specific, so...

 

[Vendel]

An additional complaint that I've heard raised on this forum is that Tifa's story is almost solely related to Cloud. I can see where this comes from, when looking at how much of her plot is revolved around him in both OG and ACC. So even if the "housewife" criticism is not agreed with, I believe more people will agree that her character needs to be explored in new areas. The only subject of interest I could come up with is the question of how she relates to her martial arts training.

I don't know. I think I would rather avoid Tifa getting the DoC treatment.

The story might be changed so that Tifa is not shown as being frustrated and that her meeting with the fellow Zangan student simply re-awakens her interest in martial arts. So I believe that the core idea of Tifa leaving behind Seventh Heaven to pursue a 'sensei' role does not necessarily have to contradict your view of Tifa's character.
She'd still have a family life of course.

Tifa abandoning her home for any reason and giving it to Johnny just seems wrong on many levels.

 

[Unlucky]

And this is getting in opinions, but I never saw Tifa as a warrior. Not even Cloud. Nor Barret. Especially Barret and Tifa were people who led shitty lives, while they had NORMAL ones in the beginning and were full of hate because they lost said normal lives. They were tough, sure, but not warriors, in my opinion.

Pre-crazy Sephiroth? Yes, that's a warrior.

Then again, I have my definition about warriors is rather specific, so...

This is also what I was thinking. What made and kept them fighting were the circumstances they were put through, so if given the choice they wouldn't want to go on fighting and would rather live normally as they so wanted in the first place.

Tifa abandoning her home for any reason and giving it to Johnny just seems wrong on many levels.

Also this. I've always seen 7th Heaven as something precious to Tifa because it's part of the 'normal life' she had always aimed for. She might venture off doing other things but she will always be in involved in it and wouldn't pass it to anybody.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

This is also what I was thinking. What made and kept them fighting were the circumstances they were put through, so if given the choice they wouldn't want to go on fighting and would rather live normally as they so wanted in the first place.

I somewhat agree, in that I think that this is what they would want. But they've been through so much, it's changed them. I don't think returning to normality is that easy. Also, while all of them suffered through a lot of horror, the time they spent as a band of friends chasing Sephiroth around the planet, discovering their world and having all sorts of adventures, was tragic at times, but also exhilirating, exciting, and intense - like those old people who look back on WWII as the happiest time of their lives, because they young and it was so intense and life was so fragile and precious. I think it would be natural for all the members of the party (except maybe Vincent) to miss that aspect of their OG-lives, and to sometimes become dissatisfied with dull routine. [And feel guilty about their own dissatisfaction].

In fact, it would be an interesting internal struggle for Tifa to go through, and would really challenge her own view of herself. She is very maternal, and prides herself on being a rock for others; she longs for a happy, normal family life and will do anything to defend it. If she were to then discover that having these things was not enough for her, it would be a shock to her system, and lead to some interesting and, I think, believable character growth.

In Case of Barret, Barret spends the story trying to work out what new prosthesis he should have on his arm instead of a gun. At the end, he decides to keep the gun, and says: "I still got journeyin' to do. I gotta find some land that yields oil. I may end up goin' places nobody else would dare enter, dangerous places. There's no tellin' what monsters I'll find. So I still need a weapon. And not just to defend myself. I'm not allowed to stop fightin'. If my fightin' means somebody else doesn't have to, then that's my calling. No, my penance."

 

[Dana Scully]

In regards to Marlene, I'd much rather see her take after Aerith and become a healer of some sort rather than a fighter. Her and Aerith did seem to have some sort of special connection in the OG, presumably stemming from Aerith rescuing her from Sector 7 and her time spent with Elmyra. Plus, Marlene just doesn't strike me as the fighter type. Tough, and stubborn, yes, but tough does not have to equal learning how to beat people up for a living.

I also agree with those who are okay with Tifa's housewifey-ness. I see her as perfectly happy spending at least the years until the kids have left the nest running the bar and being a mom. I also think she would spar regularly (with Rude, preferably) for exercise and for some competetive fun and occasionally to work off any anger or annoyance that has built up in her family life.

 

[penandpaper]

I tend to agree with the concept that I think Tifa could (and in my opinion likely is) be happy caring for her loved ones and friends. Overall, I actually don't see her really yearning for battle or adventure, but wanting to live a normal life especially given her concern with being a "real family" in Case of Tifa and Advent Children Complete. Now, I do think that she'd probably still enjoy sparring and would probably still keep in shape. Plus certainly, she wouldn't hesitate if she believed her skills were needed to help others (save the world, protect her family and friends, etc.), but I don't think that she'd really want to leave her family behind to go seek out adventure or anything like that. She loves them and I don't think that love and a strong sense of family are weaknesses in a character. A part of Tifa's character seems to be that she's pretty family oriented and I actually find that part of her endearing (Of course, that's just me, so take that for whatever it's worth.). Still, having her essentially abandon those she loves to go seek out people she doesn't even know or care about would seem kind of out of character to me and I also don't think what she's doing at this stage (taking care of her family and running a business that she built from the ground up) is so minor a consideration nor that she would consider it as such (Again, just my opinion though so please don't be angry).

That's not to say the idea of a game centered on Tifa couldn't work, but I feel like her family should still play a role and clearly be important to her. Perhaps she has no choice but to leave for whatever reason? Whether or not Cloud comes could be a matter for debate because if the world's in danger, she might try to convince him to stay behind and protect their children (Cloud's another character that I honestly see really wanting to live a normal life even if he struggles with doing so. His struggles with it seem to be more based around not knowing how and dealing with the trauma of his past then anything else and with that dealt with, I could see him being happy with the life they were living. Again, I've no doubt that he'd do whatever was needed to protect those he cares for and the world at large, plus probably keeping in fighting shape, but I don't see him seeking trouble or extra adventure really. At least no more then he'd run into on a delivery run. ).

I don't agree with the criticism that Tifa is too based on Cloud's story, but I can see where it comes from even if I think it's inaccurate, but there are ways to further develop her that don't involve her leaving her family behind.

I do think that it might be interesting to bring Zangan back into the story in some fashion though, whether just in spirit or as an actual character.

 

[Shademp]

That's not to say the idea of a game centered on Tifa couldn't work, but I feel like her family should still play a role and clearly be important to her.

My hope is that a sequel will give each character the focus they deserves, so it should not be centered on just one character. Tifa Lockhart was just an example. It would be important to involve Barret, Yuffie, Cid etc and to involve them both in story and gameplay. I hope that we'll see more in-depth suggestions in this thread.

I don't agree with the criticism that Tifa is too based on Cloud's story, but I can see where it comes from even if I think it's inaccurate, but there are ways to further develop her that don't involve her leaving her family behind.

Did people get the impression I meant for Tifa to leave her family? This was not my intended message. The point was for her to manage a club/dojo a few hours each day *instead* of working at Seventh Heaven.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

OK - I hope they don't revive Aerith.

Jenova has always been the biggest threat facing the Planet, and as long as some of her cells are still around, she's still a danger. I don't know whether Aerith's healing rain was meant to wash away the Jenova cells inside people's bodies, or just cure them of the stigma; Rufus didn't have any Jenova cells in his body but he caught the stigma anyway, so I don't know.... This topic has been discussed elsewhere. However, what is true is that Aerith's healing rain didn't cure everybody; as Red XIII, there were still children with the stigma even after the rain had come and gone. Which means that somewhere out there there are still lots of people walking around with Jenova cells inside them - namely, ex-SOLDIERs (real ones, not fake ones like Cloud ), such as... Kunsel. Maybe they all died of geostigma. Or maybe... they didn't.

At any rate, any game that purports to be the "final" game in this endless saga has to deal with these real remnants of the Jenova legacy. It becomes another moral conundrum because the ex-SOLDIERs are, in one sense, as much victims of Shinra as Barret and Tifa, but at the same time, the potential menace they pose is real and won't go away. I imagine them all scattered around the planet, trying, like Tifa and Barret and the rest, to lead normal lives as ordinary men (and maybe women), and then one of them goes haywire - and Avalanche and Shinra realise that this is yet another issue that needs to be dealt with.

Maybe by rounding them up into concentration camps....

[Is this like FFXIII? I have a vague feeling that it might be. I've never played that game.]

 

[Unlucky]

Did people get the impression I meant for Tifa to leave her family? This was not my intended message. The point was for her to manage a club/dojo a few hours each day *instead* of working at Seventh Heaven.

I agree with Lic's thoughts about the group somehow yearning for a thrill after all their experiences in the OG/AC, but I don't know, Tifa (and even Cloud) never gave me the impression that that is something she would go out of her way to find. I can imagine Yuffie, Barrett and even Cid going to adventures to somehow relive the excitement of their past, but Tifa, I always saw as being content with a secure family and steady job.

I already mentioned before that I don't think Tifa is too centered around Cloud (he's an integral part of her own story anyway), but I agree with your idea that if Tifa needs a story that is entirely her own, bringing up Zangan is actually the best idea for it imho. I can see her wondering about his whereabouts, but as for the dojo part, I think she'd most likely just remain in 7th Heaven and be the mother the children need.

Jenova has always been the biggest threat facing the Planet, and as long as some of her cells are still around, she's still a danger.

Don't forget my favorite character Genesis He may or may not be considered as that much of a threat but there's a huge possibility that he will reappear.

 

[Shademp]

As soon as the Compilation began, we were rid of the open-ended questions such as where the characters went after Meteor stopped, if Holy wiped out humanity or not etc. For this reason, I think that it is best for the Compilation to go all the way with giving closure to character arcs. It should at least not end on a note like OG did where we have no idea what happens after the big threat is averted.
If FFVII:EC ended like OG, I feel we'd just be back at square one and that the Compilation was truly pointless. One example of a character that I think deserves closure is Lucrecia...

Lucrecia
“I wanted to disappear… I couldn't be with anyone… I wanted to die…”
“But the Jenova inside me wouldn't let me die…”
“Lately, I dream a lot of Sephiroth… My dear, dear child.”
“Ever since he was born I never got to hold him…”
“Not even once. You can't call me his mother… That…is my sin…”

When plot device X happens which wipes out all Jenova cells, I imagine the following event with Lucrecia:
We see her roaming a spirit/dream realm of sorts where she claims to hear the calling of her "dear child". Showing as little as possible, the scene should let us know that she gets to hold this "child" and that she speaks the comforting words of a mother.
Then, with plot device X quickly approaching, her spirit/dream form gets engulfed in a big light and the camera quickly cuts to her physical "crystalline" self dissolving. Lucrecia is finally dead. Whether it was real or imagined, at least she went out feeling like a mother and getting to hold her child.


Again, cheese factor maximum. It's just an idea and I'd like to know whoever approves or disapproves of it (and why). =)

 

[penandpaper]

My hope is that a sequel will give each character the focus they deserves, so it should not be centered on just one character. Tifa Lockhart was just an example. It would be important to involve Barret, Yuffie, Cid etc and to involve them both in story and gameplay. I hope that we'll see more in-depth suggestions in this thread.

I'd like to see all the characters get some attention honestly. Also, more party interaction would be good, in my opinion. So, while separate stories of sorts might work well at the start, I'd like them all to come together again at least for the final portion of the game.

Did people get the impression I meant for Tifa to leave her family? This was not my intended message. The point was for her to manage a club/dojo a few hours each day *instead* of working at Seventh Heaven.

Ah, I'm sorry. With the whole having her go from town to town to find Zangan's disciples thing, that's what I thought you were implying. I do apologize for misinterpreting your intent.

I still don't see her feeling much in the way of a desire to start a dojo, although I guess that I could see her agreeing to train people in a more informal way. Besides, the bar has meaning to her. Even the name of it, coming from her own troubled past, seemed to be a way for her to come to terms with that past and move on to a better future. At least that was my interpretation when I read Case of Tifa, but I could be wrong. I've never seen anything to indicate that she doesn't get enough fulfillment out of it. Again though, I could be wrong.

OK - I hope they don't revive Aerith.

I wouldn't think that would be an option. Dead is still dead and last we saw her all the symbolism indicated that she was leaving for good. But, yeah. I agree. I love Aerith, but bringing her back to life would seem to demean the tragedy of her death.

As soon as the Compilation began, we were rid of the open-ended questions such as where the characters went after Meteor stopped, if Holy wiped out humanity or not etc. For this reason, I think that it is best for the Compilation to go all the way with giving closure to character arcs. It should at least not end on a note like OG did where we have no idea what happens after the big threat is averted.
If FFVII:EC ended like OG, I feel we'd just be back at square one and that the Compilation was truly pointless. One example of a character that I think deserves closure is Lucrecia...



When plot device X happens which wipes out all Jenova cells, I imagine the following event with Lucrecia:
We see her roaming a spirit/dream realm of sorts where she claims to hear the calling of her "dear child". Showing as little as possible, the scene should let us know that she gets to hold this "child" and that she speaks the comforting words of a mother.
Then, with plot device X quickly approaching, her spirit/dream form gets engulfed in a big light and the camera quickly cuts to her physical "crystalline" self dissolving. Lucrecia is finally dead. Whether it was real or imagined, at least she went out feeling like a mother and getting to hold her child.


Again, cheese factor maximum. It's just an idea and I'd like to know whoever approves or disapproves of it (and why). =)

It's an interesting idea. I've never been the biggest fan of her character, but it might be nice to see that side of her explored.

And, I apologize for not being able to contribute more myself. I don't have very many ideas. What I'm really most interested in is seeing the character relationships with one another explored and developed further, but I don't really know what I want to see in terms of overall plot.

 

[Shademp]

Ah, I'm sorry. With the whole having her go from town to town to find Zangan's disciples thing, that's what I thought you were implying. I do apologize for misinterpreting your intent.

What I wrote was "playable characters visit towns". I am unable to figure out myself which of the old and new characters should be playable, but I assumed for this sidequest pretty much that Tifa stays in Edge.

I still don't see her feeling much in the way of a desire to start a dojo, although I guess that I could see her agreeing to train people in a more informal way. Besides, the bar has meaning to her. Even the name of it, coming from her own troubled past, seemed to be a way for her to come to terms with that past and move on to a better future. At least that was my interpretation when I read Case of Tifa, but I could be wrong. I've never seen anything to indicate that she doesn't get enough fulfillment out of it. Again though, I could be wrong.

I can indeed see why people disagree with the dojo idea. Because I am one of the least qualified in this entire forum when it comes to interpreting characters and such, I will not passionately argue for or against any of my suggestions. What I'm here for is to read the responses.
Details aside, great potential lies in letting Tifa have her own story, plus take advantage of the fact that Zangan had a total of 128 students all over the world. The deal with Zangan's students has great potential for sidequests and fleshing out the world.

EDIT:
Hmm, I did not pay attention before to the fact that he specifically trains "children".

 

[penandpaper]

What I wrote was "playable characters visit towns". I am unable to figure out myself which of the old and new characters should be playable, but I assumed for this sidequest pretty much that Tifa stays in Edge.

I'm sorry. My mistake.

I can indeed see why people disagree with the dojo idea. Because I am one of the least qualified in this entire forum when it comes to interpreting characters and such, I will not passionately argue for or against any of my suggestions. What I'm here for is to read the responses.
Details aside, great potential lies in letting Tifa have her own story, plus take advantage of the fact that Zangan had a total of 128 students all over the world. The deal with Zangan's students has great potential for sidequests and fleshing out the world.

I don't disagree with giving a Tifa a story based around her nor do I disagree with the concept of bringing Zangan back in some form whether it be real or just his legacy. I'm not sure what the best way to do that would be though, so I'll leave it to others.

I am sorry for misinterpreting your intention.

 

[Shademp]

I am sorry for misinterpreting your intention.

Don't be disheartened. I should have been more specific about my vision for FFVII:EC. (Hmm, wonder what that abbreviation should stand for...)

But really, this is a problem when talking about FFVII:EC. None of us knows the exact setting, which characters we want to control and what the battle system should be.
If it ended up an RPG, then I'd feel jaded having say Cloud or Tifa as a playable character from the get-go because in my mind they are already on Level99. But if it's a classic J-RPG battle system then they have to start on Level1, which would feel really odd to me.

From this perspective, an action game is easier. With a battle system based on skill you know that a lost fight is your fault, not that Cloud or Tifa have been forcefully weakened.
EDIT: Yet here it would not make sense if you were not allowed their entire moveset from the get-go. ARGH. It's not like in the Metroid series where Samus Aran can just drop all her gear from the previous game for no reason.

 

[penandpaper]

Don't be disheartened. I should have been more specific about my vision for FFVII:EC. (Hmm, wonder what that abbreviation should stand for...)

But really, this is a problem when talking about FFVII:EC. None of us knows the exact setting, which characters we want to control and what the battle system should be.
If it ended up an RPG, then I'd feel jaded having say Cloud or Tifa as a playable character from the get-go because in my mind they are already on Level99. But if it's a classic J-RPG battle system then they have to start on Level1, which would feel really odd to me.

From this perspective, an action game is easier. With a battle system based on skill you know that a lost fight is your fault, not that Cloud or Tifa have been forcefully weakened.
EDIT: Yet here it would not make sense if you were not allowed their entire moveset from the get-go. ARGH. It's not like in the Metroid series where Samus Aran can just drop all her gear from the previous game for no reason.

Something that perhaps could be done is instead of starting with characters like Cloud and Tifa would be to instead possibly have characters like Denzel and Marlene take the lead in the story because they could be low leveled without anyone batting an eye and they could use the development, assuming that it's late enough that they'd be old enough to do so. It's just an idea but, especially given his attitude in Case of Denzel, I could definitely see him wanting to better his skills (with every intention of returning) or setting off on a quest if the world was in danger. I could also see Marlene wanting to do the same given what I know of her.

My headcanon insists that Denzel pesters Cloud into teaching him how to use a sword, although obviously he wouldn't be able to use the large swords that Cloud himself uses, so perhaps he could be a trainee swordsman? Or he might have learned from Tifa how to be a martial artist. Or he uses a gun, learning from any of the characters who use them/have used them. Marlene's pretty open as to what she could do too, although given that she seems to be modeled after Aerith in ACC, she might be the game's healer. Still, she could also just as easily be a martial artist, swordswoman, or use a gun given that she's coming from the same background as Denzel.

The other characters could join up later in the story or something so that they don't have to be dropped back to a low level, which might help make it a bit more believable and perhaps have their own side stories throughout the adventure to develop them further.

Assuming this makes any sense anyway.

Edit: Added a bit to the part about Marlene because I forgot something. I'd have put it here, but it makes more sense in context, although I can change that if you guys prefer.

 

[Arth]

Oh please...I don´t want see Denzel being the next Cloud or anything in that direction. In FFVII : End Crisis ( if we stay with EC ) , Denzel could join the WRO and could help Reeve on some organising stuff I think.

If Marlene is playable,which I would not prefer,the idea of making her to a healer would be my choice,too.Isn´t it so that Genesis isn´t actually a truly bad guy and started to care about the planet in the end? If that´s the case, I suppose he might fight against some sort of new Sephiroth clones or Sephiroth himself to stop the Jenova virus spreading all over the world in FF VII : EC. I would even go that far that in the end,he sacrifices himself so that Cloud and all the others could live in peace or have a chance against the reborn bigger badass Sephiroth but that´s just a wild theory of mine ^^.

And I have even a wilder theory : Didn´t Sephiroth says to Cloud something like ´´ As long as you remember me, I always can come back.´´? I think it was in OTWTAS which makes me think that if the world wants to live without the danger of Sephiroth returning to the surface,Cloud has to die so that his deepest and hurting memories of Sephiroth are wiped out,too.(And he could go on fighting Sephiroth on his own in the Lifestream ) Maybe I might´ve misunderstood something and the theory has a lot of holes anyway like 1.) you can´t do that to all Cloud fanboys and fangirls! 2.) why should just Cloud die and not the others like the rest of the Avalanche crew?Maybe because of his ´´special´´ connection to Sephiroth as shown in AC,he is the ´´chosen one´´ or something like that.But that´s just pure speculation of mine,probably somebody could clear that mess up

 

[penandpaper]

I didn't really mean that Denzel should become the next Cloud. I'd actually quite dislike that as I'd like for his development to take its own path and further flesh him out. The idea of him also using a sword is more a matter of his being influenced by Cloud who he clearly admires then to direct him down a similar path and I don't think that he needs to be the protagonist or anything. I just thought it might be fun to have him and Marlene as playable, and that it might get over the the problem of having to cut the rest of the main casts' levels back down so as to make the game an actual challenge. Plus Marlene and Denzel would really benefit from the extra development, in my opinion.

I won't argue the point though. It was just a silly idea.

Edit: Removed a part that didn't make sense.

 

[Arth]

Well, I don´t think that SE cares about how silly it would be to start with the Avalanche crew at Level 1 because EVERY company tries to get new customers for their products so I guess SE says ´´Screw this´´ and gives the newcomers to the FF VII Universe the chance to play with Cloud and Co. on Level 1.As if they could enrage the old even fans even more than they already do