Dissidia Duodecim Final Fantasy

[ForceStealer]

Interesting that Lightning's EX Burst is the move she performs with Odin. I would have expected Army of One. But I guess this move is flashier.

 

[Max Payne]

Lightning wank in those trailers is annoying.

I hope she is less of a focus in the game. I realize they're whoring her out because she's new, but there are OTHER cooler new characters.

 

[ForceStealer]

No one was especially focused on in the first one, I don't see why someone would be now.

 

[Lord Noctis]

@Fighter:Having only a few scenes hardly makes you any less important to the plot. Take Lucrecia for example. She has what? Three scenes? Yet she is possibly the single most important character in the game, excepting possibly Jenova/Sephiroth.

Still, I concede that Tifa is more important in the main plot than Zack, but I still maintain (and I doubt anyone disagrees) that Zack is extremely important to the plot.

 

[Max Payne]

No one was especially focused on in the first one, I don't see why someone would be now.

I dunno, WoL seemed pretty freaking important.

 

[Max Payne]

@Fighter:Having only a few scenes hardly makes you any less important to the plot. Take Lucrecia for example. She has what? Three scenes? Yet she is possibly the single most important character in the game, excepting possibly Jenova/Sephiroth.

Still, I concede that Tifa is more important in the main plot than Zack, but I still maintain (and I doubt anyone disagrees) that Zack is extremely important to the plot.

Actually, if we go by the logic that what a person did makes them more important rather than their overall role and participation in the main plot, then Hojo is more important than anyone.

I don't disagree that Zack plays an integral part of the story, but I don't think he's as important as the main characters. He's one of the pillars that hold the plot up, which is why he's a support character. Just like Hojo, Lucrecia, and the others there wouldn't BE much of a plot, even though their roles are minor in terms of actual participation and contribution to the story in the face of those the game focuses on the most.

 

[Roger]

but whats so hard to understand about the fact that Zack's and his memory have a huge influence on Cloud too?

I don't I'm Batman left out another important Tifa moment. In FFVII, Cloud wasn't inpersonating anyone, until he was confronted with Tifa and which prompted him to impress her, he couldn't face telling her te truth thus SOLDIER First Class Cloud was born, from TIFA'S memories of Zack and Cloud as Sephiroth tells us in the game. No entrusting of his SOLDIER Legacy, no nothing.

EDIT:

Yet she is possibly the single most important character in the game, excepting possibly Jenova/Sephiroth.

POSSIBLY? I'm pretty sure that's guaranteed. Lucretia would be nobody without Hojo, Sephiroth, Jenova, Gast, Cloud.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Actually, if we go by the logic that what a person did makes them more important rather than their overall role and participation in the main plot, then Hojo is more important than anyone.

I don't disagree that Zack plays an integral part of the story, but I don't think he's as important as the main characters.

Well, now that I think about it, Hojo IS more important than anyone else, short of Jenova, since without Jenova he has nothing to work with.

Still, I'd like to drop all this crap and get back to discussing Dissidia.

In fact I'm rather curious as to why Tifa doesn't recognize Sephiroth. Its not like he's an easy person to forget, and she has almost as much of aperssonal beef with him as Cloud does.

 

[Max Payne]

Well, now that I think about it, Hojo IS more important than anyone else, short of Jenova, since without Jenova he has nothing to work with.

Still, I'd like to drop all this crap and get back to discussing Dissidia.

In fact I'm rather curious as to why Tifa doesn't recognize Sephiroth. Its not like he's an easy person to forget, and she has almost as much of aperssonal beef with him as Cloud does.

Don't they all get slapped with Dues Ex Machina before this crap happens?

I think dunno. Would Jenova be as important without everyone dicking around with her parts(lol)?

 

[ForceStealer]

One of my favorite parts about her appearence in KH2 was that just actually fought with Sephiroth, even if it was only a few seconds. It was still cool to see someone else fighting him. So I'm looking forward to that in this game. That is odd that she asks who it is..

 

[Lord Noctis]

Don't they all get slapped with Dues Ex Machina before this crap happens?

Well yeah, but that doesn't seem to stop the other character recognizing each other. So I assume something else is going on with Tifa.

 

[Max Payne]

One of my favorite parts about her appearence in KH2 was that just actually fought with Sephiroth, even if it was only a few seconds. It was still cool to see someone else fighting him. So I'm looking forward to that in this game. That is odd that she asks who it is..

It's what should have happened in ACC. Nothing stopped Avalanche from fighting him together before, and ACC he was supposedly even more powerful.

It was a bad idea to let a fatigued Cloud who had been fighting all day go it alone.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well, since I plan on picking up The 3rd Birthday, I'm pretty sure I'll be rocking a team of "Aya Brea" and Cloud Strife.

Cloudaya will be canon at last.

I would have preferred a sequel, taking it away from the formulatic X Cosmos warrior fights X Chaos warrior, wins, gains crystal, but I'm happy with this.

Given that the heroes will lose in this round of the war, it's different from inception. As well, given that Cosmos didn't enact her plan with the crystals/manifestations of herself until the final round of the war, where the heroes won, the formula from the original shouldn't be in this one.

 

[Strangelove]

With the first game, I didn't really get the impression that they were meeting for the first time. They'd probably fought before, and that's why they recognised each other.

Maybe in Tifa's case, in this battle, she hadn't met Sephiroth yet.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Tifa is responsible for this:
• Inspiring Cloud to go join the military and attempt to become a hero.
• Spurring Cloud's desire for vengeance and giving him the extra push to put down Sephiroth.
• Participating in numerous pivotal moments and battles in the story.
• Pointing out all of the discrepancies in Cloud's memories.
• Leading Avalanche in Cloud's stead before relegating the role to Cid to take care of Cloud.
• Saving Cloud from the influence of Sephiroth and his tainted memories, rekindling his will to live and save the world.
• Participating in the final battle.
• Helping Cloud establish a normal life, reminding him he's not alone and establishing a proper support family for Cloud.

I don't feel as though that makes him as important as Tifa, or really any of Avalanche. They're the heroes and stars of the series, so of course they will be more important. Zack is a support character.

Zack is responsible for this (italics on the indirect ones):
• Participation in the Wutai War
• Dealing with the majority of Genesis' attacks on Midgar/Junon and other isolated locations.
• Zack helped to inspire Cloud inspite of him failing to become a SOLDIER on multiple occasions and throughout the time that you spend with him in Crisis Core.
• He helpdes Cloud deal with his guilt when they initially returned to Nibelheim.
• He literally dragged Cloud HUNDREDS of miles to the outskirts of Midgar, and protected him from Hojo/Hollander/Genesis/the Turks.
• Defeated Genesis (not really sure what the scope of a fully capable Genesis would be on the world)
• Gave him the motivation to continue as a living legacy for him.
• Functioned as a facet of Cloud to build his persona on before he really discovered himself.
• Was a key to Tifa realizing that something was wrong with Cloud.
• Reminded him of his strength in ACC.


I'm not arguing that Zack is more important than Tifa. Overall, she's a MUCH better character to have in Dissidia 2, because she's more core to the main storyline of FFVII Compilation notwithstanding, and a MUCH better pair with Cloud, since they fight together as a pair, whereas he and Zack really don't.

Aside from the Genesis Arc, Zack is really important in the establishment and maintanance of Cloud's strength, because initially he fails his goals, but whenever he's doubting his worth, Zack is ensuring that he's staying strong, especially when he's not a SOLDIER when he goes back home to Tifa. As soon as he realizes that he has that strength in Nibelheim, Zack protects it, and trusts him all the way to the end.

Really though - Tifa is a vastly better choice for Dissidia 2.

Cloudaya will be canon at last.

Cloti will be destroyed by Cloudaya! Love Quadrangle, here we come!


X

 

[Max Payne]

X, what is with you and redundant posts lately.

 

[Lord Noctis]

With the first game, I didn't really get the impression that they were meeting for the first time. They'd probably fought before, and that's why they recognised each other.

Maybe in Tifa's case, in this battle, she hadn't met Sephiroth yet.

But don't they still have memories of their own worlds? I mean, if it was just as simple as they fought each other before wouldn't they be universally hostile?

Instead Cecil tries to protect Golbeze at one point, and Jecht's whole quest seems to resolve around restoring his wolrd for him and Tidus IIRC.

 

[Roger]

With the first game, I didn't really get the impression that they were meeting for the first time. They'd probably fought before, and that's why they recognised each other.

Maybe in Tifa's case, in this battle, she hadn't met Sephiroth yet.

Cloud knew Sephiroth is all about manipulating, that his Buster Sword is a memento and Sephiroth think Cloud can't let go of the past. Cloud feels that Sephiroth and that he should go back to "sleep". Cloud and Sephiroth remember each other from FFVII.

 

[ForceStealer]

a MUCH better pair with Cloud, since they fight together as a pair, whereas he and Zack really don't.

Oh man I forgot about the apparent tandem fights. Cloud and Tifa against Sephiroth would be freaking awesome

 

[X-SOLDIER]

X, what is with you and redundant posts lately.

I post REALLY slowly, because I'm usually at work, or on my phone.


X

 

[Max Payne]

Well, my point was not that Zack isn't important, just not as important as a main character like Tifa.

I don't disagree that Zack plays an integral part of the story, but I don't think he's as important as the main characters. He's one of the pillars that hold the plot up, which is why he's a support character. Just like Hojo, Lucrecia, and the others there wouldn't BE much of a plot, even though their roles are minor in terms of actual participation and contribution to the story in the face of those the game focuses on the most.

 

[Roger]

Aside from the Genesis Arc, Zack is really important in the establishment and maintanance of Cloud's strength, because initially he fails his goals, but whenever he's doubting his worth, Zack is ensuring that he's staying strong, especially when he's not a SOLDIER when he goes back home to Tifa. As soon as he realizes that he has that strength in Nibelheim, Zack protects it, and trusts him all the way to the end.

Zack was talking out of his ass to keep Cloud's spirits up until he was accidentally proven right?

 

[Splintered]

Don't they all get slapped with Dues Ex Machina before this crap happens?

Well, the fact that they called attention to it means it probably is a major plot point. But let's get serious, plot in Dissidia is about as laughable as Cloud getting a career as a therapist.

 

[ForceStealer]

"So what's wrong with me doc? You gotta help me!"

"I just...."

 

[Lord Noctis]

Cloud getting a career as a therapist.

Cloud:You think you got problems!? I got an effiminate guy in bondage gear who wants to "impale" me!

Patient:0_0