Do You Think They Will Explain This?

[Ite]

Not a big deal? Eh, maybe. It’s just a video game, after all. That said, I like taking scripts and perusing them, studying them — I like it so much I made it my career. I’m aware that you have to communicate things to the audience, what gave you the impression that I wasn’t aware of that?

When I said “maybe it’s a translation issue,” I was referring to the wording. There are a million ways Tifa could exposit that Jenova line of dialogue:
“Why did he take it?”
“So he took her... but where?”
“Gone... we’ll never find them.”
“Was this the reason he came?”
“We’re too late. He’s taken what he came for.”
“After all this time... what’s he up to?”
Why do you say what you say when you say it? If the answer is just “it’s a video game, no big deal” your script needs work.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

It may be interesting to note that Tifa is not responsible for pointing out the promise directly in the Remake. It seems to be different elements (natural?) of the environment that together lead Cloud to remember it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Not a big deal? Eh, maybe. It’s just a video game, after all. That said, I like taking scripts and perusing them, studying them — I like it so much I made it my career. I’m aware that you have to communicate things to the audience, what gave you the impression that I wasn’t aware of that?

When I said “maybe it’s a translation issue,” I was referring to the wording. There are a million ways Tifa could exposit that Jenova line of dialogue:
“Why did he take it?”
“So he took her... but where?”
“Gone... we’ll never find them.”
“Was this the reason he came?”
“We’re too late. He’s taken what he came for.”
“After all this time... what’s he up to?”
Why do you say what you say when you say it? If the answer is just “it’s a video game, no big deal” your script needs work.

Well, "Who would...?" is simply a rhetorical question of astonishment and bewilderment, not a literal expression of confusion over who was responsible for ripping out the Jenova specimen from the container it was in. Sephiroth was there, she saw him. Now she's seeing a bloody alien container busted from the outside with part of the specimens guts pulled out.

Detectives and crime scene investigators gasp in shock upon witnessing a gruesome enough bloodbath and what do they usually say? "Who would do such a thing?" when clearly, the murderer would, since... This is their mess. It's a shock of sensibilities, not being able to conceptualize someone doing an act so bizarre and violent. Your examples apparently don't leave room for Tifa to simply be shocked and bewildered by seeing a supposed dead supersoldier suddenly blink into existence, cut a bridge they were standing on and then suddenly confiscate an alien for no discernable reason.

Rhetorical questions meant to point out details aren't that strange. Tifa being shocked at the bizarre alien blood bath along with Sephiroth's behavior after falling several feet into the air isn't out of character, its just exposition.

 

[Stiggie]

Do you guys think they will explain Tifa's lack of reaction to seeing Sephiroth in Remake? That bothered me so much, and I rarely see people talking about it. Was it a mistake of the devs, or was it on purpose? What do you think?

I have talked about it, because yeah, this REALLY bothers me as well, she should be more disturbed than Cloud, but I don't think the developers really thought it through, they show her slightly shocked, and afterwards Aerith asks Tifa how she's holding up, but it feels too little.

That moment should logically focus on her, she should hate Sephiroth just as much or more, and unlike Cloud, she had NO IDEA he was still alive.

 

[Eerie]

Aerith asking Tifa how she feels is a reference to the plate fall though. Tifa turned to her explicitely during chapters 10-11, several times, when she learned Shinra's plan concerning the plate. Aerith knew it was coming, so she's worried about how Tifa took the blow.

I am really hoping the next light novel will cover a lot on Tifa's part, because those are "black years" as far as we're concerned, we know next to nothing except she met Barret there and joined Avalanche. This would tell us how she healed and felt after the Nibelheim incident, and help us contextualise Tifa in Remake. I have also noted that she has lived in Midgar for at least one year if not more before Barret arrived there, so it's no surprise that the devs created Marle - something tells me that she's looked over her since the beginning, and this is why she is so attached to her.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

Is it not a surprise that Marle named her business a name that characterizes so much the place where young Tifa asked young Cloud to make a promise ? This detail is revealed at approximately the same time/place as Tifa points back to the promise in OG.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I was thinking the exact same thing, Ite. It doesn't cost much more in the way of words to have her say, "Sephiroth... He must have done this..." or even the famous "Did Sephiroth... do this?". She doesn't have to sound like a clueless amnesiac in order to fulfil the role of pointer-outer. It wouldn't even make any difference to the player experience, because when she says, "Who would have done this?" we're all shouting in reply, "Sephiroth, you forgetful ninny!"

 

[ultima786]

The lack of a proper response by Tifa or at least some subtle foreshadowing, is one of my major critiques of FF7R. It could have been resolved so easily also. It was the only time in the game where I questioned whether the devs knew their own story and characters. Apart from this issue, Remake was brilliant.

Btw, TIFA was the best acted character in Remake, in my book. So this oversight was so sad for me.

Again, it can be redeemed. Maybe they go hard on the “I was desperate to hide my feelings so that I don’t screw up the one vestige left of my past that still lives, my relationship to Cloud...”

 

[Odysseus]

Mountains out of molehills

 

[ultima786]

Mountains out of molehills

Do you think so? I mean, Tifa is literally the key to Cloud’s past and true identity. These issues matter to the story.

 

[Odysseus]

It's an incredibly brief scene. I'll give you that Tifa looks like an idiot for stating the obvious sometimes, but it really isn't a big deal. That wanted to emphasize Cloud's emotions in that scene because we only know Sephiroth through him so far in the remake, Tifa isn't related yet. Realistically should she have had more of a reaction? Probably, but oh well. It wasn't a priority in that scene, that's all. It's not like she had any big reaction to him being alive in the original either.

 

[Theozilla]

Well, "Who would...?" is simply a rhetorical question of astonishment and bewilderment, not a literal expression of confusion over who was responsible for ripping out the Jenova specimen from the container it was in. Sephiroth was there, she saw him. Now she's seeing a bloody alien container busted from the outside with part of the specimens guts pulled out.

Detectives and crime scene investigators gasp in shock upon witnessing a gruesome enough bloodbath and what do they usually say? "Who would do such a thing?" when clearly, the murderer would, since... This is their mess. It's a shock of sensibilities, not being able to conceptualize someone doing an act so bizarre and violent. Your examples apparently don't leave room for Tifa to simply be shocked and bewildered by seeing a supposed dead supersoldier suddenly blink into existence, cut a bridge they were standing on and then suddenly confiscate an alien for no discernable reason.

Rhetorical questions meant to point out details aren't that strange. Tifa being shocked at the bizarre alien blood bath along with Sephiroth's behavior after falling several feet into the air isn't out of character, its just exposition.

Yeah, it's rhetorical dialogue expressing emotions. Of course Tifa understands its almost assuredly Sephiroth, but considering the WTF of the situation in general Tifa's is going to be expressing shock.

 

[Stiggie]

The lack of a proper response by Tifa or at least some subtle foreshadowing, is one of my major critiques of FF7R. It could have been resolved so easily also. It was the only time in the game where I questioned whether the devs knew their own story and characters. Apart from this issue, Remake was brilliant.

Btw, TIFA was the best acted character in Remake, in my book. So this oversight was so sad for me.

Again, it can be redeemed. Maybe they go hard on the “I was desperate to hide my feelings so that I don’t screw up the one vestige left of my past that still lives, my relationship to Cloud...”

And the thing is, it could have been fixed SO easily just a single close up of just her face in absolute horror, perhaps a softly muttered "no", and you'd have fixed the issue and have created a very gripping, potentially iconic, emotional moment.

But no, because they weren't thinking "what does this mean for our characters and who should we focus on", they were instead starting with the "Cloud is the MC" mentality, and were too pre-occupied with his "iconic" relationship with Sephiroth to think about the other characters.

It's an incredibly brief scene. I'll give you that Tifa looks like an idiot for stating the obvious sometimes, but it really isn't a big deal. That wanted to emphasize Cloud's emotions in that scene because we only know Sephiroth through him so far in the remake, Tifa isn't related yet. Realistically should she have had more of a reaction? Probably, but oh well. It wasn't a priority in that scene, that's all. It's not like she had any big reaction to him being alive in the original either.

It doesn't matter if this is something that's not relevant yet, good writing doesn't wait to have characters act in character until the plot demands it off them. Tifa should have a visceral reaction to it, and the fact that we don't know why she'd have such a strong reaction should be something the audience wonders about until it's later revealed, she shouldn't suddenly start having emotions only after it's revealed to the audience that she should have emotions.

 

[Eerie]

Honestly, Tifa recoils in shock and fear, several steps away. She can't believe the guy is still alive after 5 years, and he put Masamune through her the last time she saw him. She also does have memory lapses from the event, and isn't really sure of anything - and Cloud's story not matching with her will NOT help later on. Tifa's reactions, since the OG, have always been pointed at as "lacking" (why wouldn't she tell Cloud the truth, why didn't she react stronger, why why why), but people forget she's been in a coma and isn't sure of what happened, isn't sure of how to help Cloud, isn't sure of what's happening. In short, people await too much from a normal girl, who just recoils in fear when she sees a dead man raising in front of her. And this still holds true now that we're in Remake part 1. I bet that many people will still ask why she doesn't tell Cloud the truth when he tells his version of Nibelheim.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Different people perceive things differently. One player's shock and fear is another's mild surprise and confusion.

 

[Odysseus]

Tifa's entire dialogue regarding Sephiroth being alive in the original:

Tifa:
"This sword…"

Cloud:
“It belongs to Sephiroth!!”

Tifa:
“…Sephiroth is alive?”

After the scene with Palmer

Tifa:
“Then does that mean”
“the Promised Land really does
exist and that Sephiroth's
here to save it from Shinra?”

Barret:
“So he's a good guy then?”

Cloud:
“Save the Promised Land?
A good guy? No way!!”
“It's not that simple! I know him!
Sephiroth's mission is different!”

(Tifa's next line is about Rufus when he shows up)

I guess what I'm getting at is that Tifa isn't the sort of person who has

visceral reaction

s to these sorts of things for whatever reason. Cloud is the one who yells and freaks out. The only time I can remember Tifa getting extremely emotional about Sephiroth and what he did is right after he did it, a scene that just so happens to also be in the remake

(a scene reiterated literally right before the scene everyone is taking issue with, btw)

Honestly, considering he just kind shows up out of nowhere, stunned silence is a fairly appropriate reaction imo.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

Tifa is the kind of girl who will instantly give amnesty to her father's killer if he turns out to have the same political views as her.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Tifa is the kind of girl who will instantly give amnesty to her father's killer if he turns out to have the same political views as her.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Yeah, I really don’t think it’s a scene that requires so much overthinking. I’d argue Aerith’s reaction is more important at this point in time because of what we learn later in Remake. Had the Nibelheim flashback occurred in this game, then seeing Tifa’s reaction might have more of an immediate payoff but most audiences probably wouldn’t even remember her reaction or supposed lackthereof anyways. Hell, I’d find Barret leaving Marlene to chase Sephiroth in the OG to be lacking in motivation compared to the remake but I don’t think it’s a big deal either way. As nice as it would’ve been to see more of a visceral reaction from Tifa or more of a believable reason for Barret to chase Sephiroth, I think what they do show us is what’s more important here.

I know we want every character’s lines and reactions to have some greater significance but real people don’t talk and express like that, so I’d hardly expect a fictional character to. Sometimes we just say dumb, anecdotal, meaningless, weird things, it’s not all going to be profound or make the most sense. If I had to guess though, it’s probably mostly just funky translations here but I don’t know if the original would be that much better.

 

[Ite]

It's not a big deal.

Mountains out of molehills

Yeah, I really don’t think it’s a scene that requires so much overthinking.

This thread is exactly the place for this molehill to be a mountain. Do you want to engage or just belittle people you disagree with? Oh, both? Looks like both.

 

[Odysseus]

Who belittled anyone?

 

[Makoeyes987]

I literally engaged with your point reasonably and respectfully, that's not belittling. I just don't agree
that it's some major failing in the script, let alone that it makes Tifa sound stupid.

Hell, if I was belittling, I wouldn't even take the premise seriously in the first place, let alone try to argue from it. How am I mocking?

 

[MelodicEnigma]

I don't know, saying something isn't "a big deal" is its own neutral response, but it would serve better with explanations as to the why, which it seems some people have. Tifa's reaction to Sephiroth isn't fantastical in either a negative [no reaction at all] or positive direction [what those who wanted more expected]—given the context, it was appropriate enough to deliver a look of shock and stumbling backwards without any worded exposition as the deeper contextual reaction for her character. There's still more to be told to understand that, in the grander scheme, and more than likely more expressions to show. I wouldn't say that invalidates someone's feelings of wanting more, but I'd still say it isn't an issue in totality, to bypass the neutral nature of being a "problem", really.

Everything else, like Tifa's awareness....yeah. I mean, that type of critique happens all the time, doesn't in? Where we wonder why a character doesn't say something or say it in a way we feel is appropriate—I think some of this can follow on the same logic as above, but I can see where if I was writing it, I would go along with instead some of the things people have mentioned.

 

[Clement Rage]

I think it's dubious to expect an 'appropriate' reaction. Everyone reacts differently, and Tifa is notorious for burying her feelings. Last time they met, he gutted her, freezing in fear is entirely apropriate.

 

[MelodicEnigma]

Yeah, sort of. Everyone reacts differently, but "appropriate" here just means what makes sense via context—this can be a wide range of responses, though limited in how we understand it. If Tifa smiled and jumped in the air for joy, that could be her reaction, but this would only be considered sensible if we learned her character trait was to respond in that way if she was nervous or shocked (which would be incredibly weird, but whatever). What she did in the actual scene fits under that wide range of responses that CAN be expected, we just need context, is all. That's the only reason I feel criticizing it isn't really worth much, but I can always understand the mindset of wanting more.

Edit:
Which to be clear, I'm saying I don't think her reaction has to be "explained", like, in the specific sense of "Why did we choose to only show her reacting THIS way.". Any context needed is going to be given by the story, and her response is appropriate because it was congruent with that. She could've fell to the floor in shock, yelled and pointed Sephiroth, or simply muttered "no way", etc. Sure, but I don't look at those possible additions as critique? Not in the way that her reaction was a problem to a reasonable degree.