Does Vincent's Love For Lucrecia Blind Him To Her Faults And Actions?

[Unlucky]

Gast needed to be tracked down, but even if they didn't know where he was, the game implied he was still giving them research. It's not until Hojo shows up to take Aerith that Gast proclaims that he's severing all ties with the Shinra. (At least in English)

I re-watched the cutscenes. I don't think he's giving them research (why would he when he already left.. and they didn't know where he was right?). He was merely recording it. Hojo took the video with him when he discovered it.

He did say that line though ('I'm severing all ties with the Shinra!'). Probably a translation error?

 

[jazzflower92]

I re-watched the cutscenes. I don't think he's giving them research (why would he when he already left.. and they didn't know where he was right?). He was merely recording it. Hojo took the video with him when he discovered it.

He did say that line though ('I'm severing all ties with the Shinra!'). Probably a translation error?

I still wonder why did Hojo take it.I mean what would he do with it anyway and why wasn't it destroyed.

 

[Unlucky]

It's research, of course it's valuable. He even calls it 'a mountain of treasure'

 

[jazzflower92]

It's research, of course it's valuable. He even calls it 'a mountain of treasure'

Oh,yeah this is Hojo he considers any possible research material valuable.

 

[Unlucky]

Not just any research, it's about the Ancients and Weapon.

 

[jazzflower92]

Not just any research, it's about the Ancients and Weapon.

That would defiantly make sense for him to be interested.Also tying together the Chaos and Weapon thing I wonder was it Hojo's decades long plan to try to end the world so he could possess Omega.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I think we never have a fic told from Hojo's POV because nobody really likes him all that much.

You don't need to like your protagonist to write a fic from his point of view. Look at Lolita. It's brilliant because Humbert keeps trying to justify and explain his actions, and never realises that everything he says just condemns him more.

PS Also Crimsonsun, who I think is a BNF in this fandom if anyone is, has a lot of - well, not empathy for, but interest in, Hojo.

 

[ForceStealer]

That would defiantly make sense for him to be interested.Also tying together the Chaos and Weapon thing I wonder was it Hojo's decades long plan to try to end the world so he could possess Omega.

Nah, in Dirge he says he didn't believe Chaos or Omega existed until he saw Vincent turn into Chaos.

 

[jazzflower92]

You don't need to like your protagonist to write a fic from his point of view. Look at Lolita. It's brilliant because Humbert keeps trying to justify and explain his actions, and never realises that everything he says just condemns him more.

PS Also Crimsonsun, who I think is a BNF in this fandom if anyone is, has a lot of - well, not empathy for, but interest in, Hojo.

A fanfiction from Hojo's POV I have a feeling would make him look even creepier and sadistic because we get to see things through his eyes which in my opinion would not be pretty.Its still morbidly curious to see what this mad scientist thought process is like.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^I've done some of that (story from Hojo's pov) in my head... it's really creepy thinking about how that mindset works when I stop.

It's really easy as everything follows a for-profit way of thought. There aren't any conflicting morals you have to deal with either, just "what do I want to know and how can I learn it" and "am I competent enough to succeed in learning it?". It's all about ideas and results, so people really don't come into play. What's freaky is that's a really simple way to live, and if it wasn't for the fact that right and wrong clearly exist in the world, I'd find it really attractive; it so uncomplicated. In real life I love finding out how stuff works, and I love tinkering with anything mechanical. Hojo's just doing that type of stuff on a biological/DNA level and take that to it's extreme.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

In order to do the things Hojo does one would have to disconnect with reality. Not in a drooling, screaming kind of way but to actually stop thinking of other people as...well, people. With thoughts, feelings and dreams of their own. I mean if you're working on your computer to make it run faster you don't really care if you have to tear out some of the guts, do you?

That's how people (using that term lightly in regards to them) like this think, imo. They're actually confused (or amused) that people object to their behaviour. As far as they're concerned, people are just there as tools. Something to use then throw away. Once you decide in your head that people are simply that any of their actions seem quite normal to them.

And that's downright scary, when you think about it.

 

[jazzflower92]

In order to do the things Hojo does one would have to disconnect with reality. Not in a drooling, screaming kind of way but to actually stop thinking of other people as...well, people. With thoughts, feelings and dreams of their own. I mean if you're working on your computer to make it run faster you don't really care if you have to tear out some of the guts, do you?

That's how people (using that term lightly in regards to them) like this think, imo. They're actually confused (or amused) that people object to their behaviour. As far as they're concerned, people are just there as tools. Something to use then throw away. Once you decide in your head that people are simply that any of their actions seem quite normal to them.

And that's downright scary, when you think about it.

Yeah,that kinda of what makes Hojo downright scary is the fact that he sees people as objects to use,experiment,and to study on.Plus when he has no more use or interest in something or someone he gets rid of them/it.

With that in mind imagine someone with that kinda of thinking marrying then raising a child.It did say in the Ultimanias that Hojo only saw Lucrecia as lab material to bear Sephiroth and his son was something for him to study and satisfy his scientific desires.

I think the biggiest thing about Hojo is no one is safe from his vileness and scientific sadism.I mean some who worked for Shinra turned against them when they targeted their loved ones.Hojo however didn't care about his wife's saftey when they were injecting Jenova's cells into her.Or the very fact that he would show no regret at the fact of what consequences experimenting on his own unborn child could do.

Its no wonder Vincent was continually showing concern because Hojo was definitely not and didn't give a darn as well.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Couple of things about Gast. I don't know if the Compilation canon has changed this, but the OG canon held that Gast resigned from Shin-Ra due to guilt over using humans as test subjects for the Jenova Project.

It's also unclear when exactly he learned that Jenova was no Ancient. One would think he didn't learn this until he met Ifalna at Icicle Lodge, but one of the Cosmo elders mentions Gast swinging by one time in a distraught atate, and that he was saying Jenova wasn't an Ancient.

So maybe he figured it out before he left and that was what opened his eyes to the human experimentation being wrong -- though it would be sad if that was what it took to make him stop and think.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Yeah,that kinda of what makes Hojo downright scary is the fact that he sees people as objects to use,experiment,and to study on.Plus when he has no more use or interest in something or someone he gets rid of them/it.

He's pretty much seeing people as complex biological machines and treating them that way. The scary thing is that unless there is a way to prove that humanity is more then the sum of his parts, that is, that there is more to humanity then just chemical reactions in the brain, Hojo is right in thinking that humanity is a hydro-carbon based machine as opposed to a silicon based machine.

But that gets into the realm of philosophy as opposed to hard science and there's very few ways to scientifically prove that philosophy is right or wrong.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

So it is canon that Gast met Ifalna at icicle Inn?

 

[jazzflower92]

I also wonder if part of Gast's regret about human experimenting would also have to do with Sephiroth as well.I mean he finds out the truth about Jenova and realizes that they put the cells of an parastic alien inside a child.Plus he heard what Jenova did to the Ancients in the past and horrfically realizes what that could possibly mean for Sephiroth in the future.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

I would think Gast would be a horrible person if he didn't feel sadness that Sephiroth was injected with an alien's cells before birth. Even if Sephiroth got what was coming to him in the end, simply not experimenting on him would have saved a lot of people grief. That one action, plus a few smaller other actions, basically risked the world itself.

Gast seemed like the kind of character that would regret such actions, so it's conceivable that he did, but we really learn so little about him, so I'm unsure.

 

[jazzflower92]

I would think Gast would be a horrible person if he didn't feel sadness that Sephiroth was injected with an alien's cells before birth. Even if Sephiroth got what was coming to him in the end, simply not experimenting on him would have saved a lot of people grief. That one action, plus a few smaller other actions, basically risked the world itself.

Gast seemed like the kind of character that would regret such actions, so it's conceivable that he did, but we really learn so little about him, so I'm unsure.

Yeah,it seems like the Compliations seems to go out of its way to ignore Gast.I mean I would find it great if they released a prequel book about Gast and expand on his character.

I agree by experimenting on Sephiroth they basically are indirectly responsible for a lot of the planet's problems and griefs.

 

[Jiro]

I always felt like Hojo "left" Shinra because Sephiroth had returned and he wanted to test the Reunion theory. That's why he helps Cloud and co. at Costa Del Sol, at least to me. He's still "on the clock" as far as I'm concerned, although I think he still views Shinra as a tool to accomplish his goals more than anything.

 

[Vivi]

So it is canon that Gast met Ifalna at icicle Inn?

I'm not sure how accurate the Final Fantasy wiki is, but it says this about Gast:

Gast left the project upon discovering Jenova is not a Cetra, and continued his research on the Cetra in his laboratory at Icicle Inn. When departing Shinra he helped a captive Cetra, Ifalna, the true last remaining Cetra, escape. This detail is revealed in Crisis Core Complete Guide. After leaving Shinra the two migrated to Icicle Inn and went into hiding.

 

[jazzflower92]

I always felt like Hojo "left" Shinra because Sephiroth had returned and he wanted to test the Reunion theory. That's why he helps Cloud and co. at Costa Del Sol, at least to me. He's still "on the clock" as far as I'm concerned, although I think he still views Shinra as a tool to accomplish his goals more than anything.

Throughout the game Hojo seems to think of Shinra as a useful tool for his experiments and testing out the Reunion Theory.In the end he really didn't care about Shinra or even the earth at all when he decided to power up Sephiroth with the Sister Ray.Now that I think about it since a lot of horrible things can be directly traced back to the Hojo it really makes one think that he could actually be considered earth's biggiest threat next to Sephiroth and Jenova.

I wonder where Shinra found Ifalna and how she came into their custody in the first place.Most of all how she came to be the last true Cetra.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

So it is canon that Gast met Ifalna at icicle Inn?

It was OG canon, yeah. The Ultimania Omega makes this point pretty clear.

The Crisis Core Complete Guide kind of took a shit all over what was a much simpler series of events.

 

[Unlucky]

I'm not sure how accurate the Final Fantasy wiki is, but it says this about Gast:

Gast left the project upon discovering Jenova is not a Cetra, and continued his research on the Cetra in his laboratory at Icicle Inn. When departing Shinra he helped a captive Cetra, Ifalna, the true last remaining Cetra, escape. This detail is revealed in Crisis Core Complete Guide. After leaving Shinra the two migrated to Icicle Inn and went into hiding.

This is what I had in my mind when I made my theory about Gast 'falling in love' with Ifalna.. funny, I've always thought this is OG canon..

The Crisis Core Complete Guide kind of took a shit all over what was a much simpler series of events.

Color me surprised So this is the new canon then?

 

[jazzflower92]

Then again this is Square we are talking about they always have this bad habit of doing unnecessary retcons.

 

[Unlucky]

Still better than Genesis in the Nibelheim reactor.