UUuugh, noooooo!
E3 predictions
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UUuugh, noooooo!
Don't they usually have a small bit during Sony, and then reiterate everything the following day in their own stream?
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
So, I haven't been excited about the remake since ... I'm not sure if I've been excited about the remake at any point, actually.
I don't know what my deal is, but I almost feel like it just won't actually happen. Not trying to be a wet blanket, just sharing this odd thought process (if it can even be called one).
I don't know what my deal is, but I almost feel like it just won't actually happen. Not trying to be a wet blanket, just sharing this odd thought process (if it can even be called one).
Joker
We have come to terms
- AKA
- Godot
You're not alone, Tres.
I love Final Fantasy 7, but I'm not that hyped about this remake. I'll take what things I can get as they come, but just like every day before it was announced, I'm not getting my hopes up. Maybe it'll be amazing (give me pure, unfiltered Cid!). Maybe it'll be gutter trash (adding in stuff from the Compilation is a step in that direction, imo). It's coming, and I'll base my opinion of its merit on my own time playing it. I don't care about media blitzes, conferences, presentations, hands-on reviews, interviews, or in-depth articles, because none of them are going to tell me whether or not I'm going to enjoy the game.
I think it's good they haven't shown Tifa or the others yet, either.
I love Final Fantasy 7, but I'm not that hyped about this remake. I'll take what things I can get as they come, but just like every day before it was announced, I'm not getting my hopes up. Maybe it'll be amazing (give me pure, unfiltered Cid!). Maybe it'll be gutter trash (adding in stuff from the Compilation is a step in that direction, imo). It's coming, and I'll base my opinion of its merit on my own time playing it. I don't care about media blitzes, conferences, presentations, hands-on reviews, interviews, or in-depth articles, because none of them are going to tell me whether or not I'm going to enjoy the game.
I think it's good they haven't shown Tifa or the others yet, either.
hian
Purist
I have such mixed feelings about the remake. Obviously, as people probably remember I was really not at all happy with the direction the remake was taken in, since my one of my favorite aspects of the original was the aesthetics and the art direction, and I've never been a fan of the action RPG systems that SE have produced in the past.
Yet, I want to believe that there can be a good game within a sort of reboot/re-imagining of the game, and that there is value in making a game like that (I love cover songs and remixes for instance, like a good Bossa Nova version of an old rock song I used to listen to back in high school etc.).
That being said, I'm not at all confident in SE's ability to do that well given their track record the last decade.
However, having combed through most of the information that's been released, having done the translations, and having gotten the privilege to talk to some of the people on the team back around Christmas/New Years, some of level of enthusiasm has managed to creep up under my skin despite my normal pessimism.
I'm fairly certain at this point that the game will be relatively solid just in terms of "being a game" (not be bug ridden, control smoothly, look good, high production values etc.), however to what degree it will deliver on being a remake that manages to shine as an FF game, and more to the point, a game trying to retread the ground of FFVII, while also being just as good, if not better, in its own regard - well that is something I'm very sceptical of.
Kitase and Nomura seem to believe they'll be capable of doing that, and it's obvious SE are betting big with the title though.
Right now I'm kinda 50/50 split on whether or not it will turn out to be an experience I can enjoy on its own merits.
As for E3 - I'm expecting a new trailer, and maybe, if we're really lucky, a floor demo of the Bombing Mission.
I don't expect them to reveal much beyond that though, and rather that more information will be released in sprinkles after E3 leading up to later year event in a similar fashion to how they handled PR on the game after the release of the announcment trailer.
Personally, I don't have a problem if they keep the remake relatively quite up until the release of the first part.
One of my biggest issues with FFXV is that, with its oversaturation in the media, and in having seen most of the promo material for that game, going into it I didn't feel surprised by anything.
In context of the FFVII remake, a similar approach would be catastrophic because it's a remake of a game so many of us, me included, have played to death.
Sure, there will be changes, but large parts of the game will also be the same.
Most of my enjoyment playing the game will be found in seeing the enviroments and evens interpreted anew, but the impact of that will be damaged a lot of they keep dropping it in screenshots and trailers prior to release.
Sure, I would love to know what Costa Del Sol is going to look like this time around - or Wall-market - but that's something I wanna figure out and be surprised by playing the game for the first time, which hopefully will give the game a chance to wow me the same way the original did. I would not want that experience spoilt.
Yet, I want to believe that there can be a good game within a sort of reboot/re-imagining of the game, and that there is value in making a game like that (I love cover songs and remixes for instance, like a good Bossa Nova version of an old rock song I used to listen to back in high school etc.).
That being said, I'm not at all confident in SE's ability to do that well given their track record the last decade.
However, having combed through most of the information that's been released, having done the translations, and having gotten the privilege to talk to some of the people on the team back around Christmas/New Years, some of level of enthusiasm has managed to creep up under my skin despite my normal pessimism.
I'm fairly certain at this point that the game will be relatively solid just in terms of "being a game" (not be bug ridden, control smoothly, look good, high production values etc.), however to what degree it will deliver on being a remake that manages to shine as an FF game, and more to the point, a game trying to retread the ground of FFVII, while also being just as good, if not better, in its own regard - well that is something I'm very sceptical of.
Kitase and Nomura seem to believe they'll be capable of doing that, and it's obvious SE are betting big with the title though.
Right now I'm kinda 50/50 split on whether or not it will turn out to be an experience I can enjoy on its own merits.
As for E3 - I'm expecting a new trailer, and maybe, if we're really lucky, a floor demo of the Bombing Mission.
I don't expect them to reveal much beyond that though, and rather that more information will be released in sprinkles after E3 leading up to later year event in a similar fashion to how they handled PR on the game after the release of the announcment trailer.
Personally, I don't have a problem if they keep the remake relatively quite up until the release of the first part.
One of my biggest issues with FFXV is that, with its oversaturation in the media, and in having seen most of the promo material for that game, going into it I didn't feel surprised by anything.
In context of the FFVII remake, a similar approach would be catastrophic because it's a remake of a game so many of us, me included, have played to death.
Sure, there will be changes, but large parts of the game will also be the same.
Most of my enjoyment playing the game will be found in seeing the enviroments and evens interpreted anew, but the impact of that will be damaged a lot of they keep dropping it in screenshots and trailers prior to release.
Sure, I would love to know what Costa Del Sol is going to look like this time around - or Wall-market - but that's something I wanna figure out and be surprised by playing the game for the first time, which hopefully will give the game a chance to wow me the same way the original did. I would not want that experience spoilt.
I seem to be the oddball of the crowd: I'm excited to have something to be excited for.
....Ehr, what I mean is that I could have easily been happy no matter which way this game could have gone, as long as it wasn't a paint-job like Resident Evil REmake. Since it was obvious that was never going to be a case, there just isn't anything that can disapoint me besides a minor full grade loss if they cut corners with NPCs and side quests.
But this is basically going to be "Final Fantasy VII: The Mini Series" if nothing else, and it'll take a lot of self control to just not watch the whole thing streamed, long before I'm ever going to be able to afford a PS4 or PS5 for it.
....Ehr, what I mean is that I could have easily been happy no matter which way this game could have gone, as long as it wasn't a paint-job like Resident Evil REmake. Since it was obvious that was never going to be a case, there just isn't anything that can disapoint me besides a minor full grade loss if they cut corners with NPCs and side quests.
But this is basically going to be "Final Fantasy VII: The Mini Series" if nothing else, and it'll take a lot of self control to just not watch the whole thing streamed, long before I'm ever going to be able to afford a PS4 or PS5 for it.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
@hian
For me, it's probably the opposite: an information drought dries up my enthusiasm, makes me doubtful of their own confidence in the product, and apparently even has me questioning whether this thing will ever be more than vaporware.
For me, it's probably the opposite: an information drought dries up my enthusiasm, makes me doubtful of their own confidence in the product, and apparently even has me questioning whether this thing will ever be more than vaporware.
hian
Purist
I can totally see and understand that perspective. Personally, I've never be one to buy into marketing and always seen massive marketing and over exposure as a bigger sign of impending failure because it suggests to me publishers don't believe the game can sell on its own merits and that one of the most important things when selling a game is not to spend most of your funds on making s solid product, but rather that it's better to allocate vast amounts of it to marketing and PR to bedazzle the masses with flash and trinkets.
In nothing was this more apparent than FFXV - a bad game sold on a massive hype train built on a humongous marketing budget.
In terms of certain things media silence can spell problems, but given that FFVIIR entered production a year before they successfully shadow announced the game, showing a dedication to keeping a tight lid on things, and what happened with FFXV, I consider the measured pace of the remake's marketing seems reasonable and to be expected.
I'd also wager that your excitement months and months prior to the release of a product matters little, if at all, on your choice to purchase it.
All they need to sell the game is prerelease excitement. What's the purpose of building it years and years in advance like with Versus?
Still though, there's a good reason why FFVIIR hasn't been marketed yet, and that is all the other FF products that have been center pieces up until now. Once Zodiac Age is out and the major XV DLC stuff is done, I think we can expected more marketing.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - FFVIIR was probably a strategical move made on the back of concerns regarding the franchise's future with console gaming and the risk that was XV. The moment that game proved a success though, the existence of the remake became a PR liability, and so it was shuffled to one side to prevent it from stealing the shine from other closer to release titles.
Now that we're almost entirely past that point in the pipeline I think we'll see a lot of change.
In nothing was this more apparent than FFXV - a bad game sold on a massive hype train built on a humongous marketing budget.
In terms of certain things media silence can spell problems, but given that FFVIIR entered production a year before they successfully shadow announced the game, showing a dedication to keeping a tight lid on things, and what happened with FFXV, I consider the measured pace of the remake's marketing seems reasonable and to be expected.
I'd also wager that your excitement months and months prior to the release of a product matters little, if at all, on your choice to purchase it.
All they need to sell the game is prerelease excitement. What's the purpose of building it years and years in advance like with Versus?
Still though, there's a good reason why FFVIIR hasn't been marketed yet, and that is all the other FF products that have been center pieces up until now. Once Zodiac Age is out and the major XV DLC stuff is done, I think we can expected more marketing.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - FFVIIR was probably a strategical move made on the back of concerns regarding the franchise's future with console gaming and the risk that was XV. The moment that game proved a success though, the existence of the remake became a PR liability, and so it was shuffled to one side to prevent it from stealing the shine from other closer to release titles.
Now that we're almost entirely past that point in the pipeline I think we'll see a lot of change.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Perhaps XV's marketing was overblown, but I (not surprisingly? 
) disagree that it was a bad game.
I don't know that I want it to set a precedent for how players will become familiar with the world in future FF games (I definitely hope they don't incorporate much of this style into FFVIIR), but it works remarkably well for this one game (in my own opinion).
) disagree that it was a bad game.I don't know that I want it to set a precedent for how players will become familiar with the world in future FF games (I definitely hope they don't incorporate much of this style into FFVIIR), but it works remarkably well for this one game (in my own opinion).
hian
Purist
Obviously that's going to be subjective but I thought the game was a hack job, that bumbled everything from gameplay to story presentation. I hope very hard that whatever the remake is, it's nothing like FFXV, which is probably my least liked FF to date, at the very least tied with XIII trilogy. And this is not a old versus new FF thing either, given that FF14 is IMO one of the best FF games in the series. I could write a book on all the design and directorial issues I have with XV but given how wel recieved the game seems in general on this site I don't want to make a habit of harping on it.
I would argue that a lot of what little joy that game could have offered me was thoroughly stolen by all the trailers spoiling pretty much every major location and event in the game though.
I would argue that a lot of what little joy that game could have offered me was thoroughly stolen by all the trailers spoiling pretty much every major location and event in the game though.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Are you certain? The official site says 13th-15th.
Fangu
Great Old One
Feel free to go ahead. I was largely disappointed with XV but it's not something I talk too much about on TLS, for the reason you mention.
For me the issue wasn't as much the story (as people tend to mention when talking about their dislike for the game) as it was how the gameplay felt unfinished. Usually good JRPG's will teach you step by step how to learn the various aspect of gameplay. (I find Valkyria Chronicles and earlier FF to be good examples of starting out easy, then adding more complexity as you go.) This is something I find lacking in some western RPG's, say, Dragon Age, which felt pretty much like "...and then there's this whole gambit type system, but you don't really have to use it." (That aside, I enjoyed parts of the DA battle system.) A good game will force me to learn at least a minimum of the battle system, and it will teach it to me step by step, so I'll have time to practice what I learnt. XV to me didn't feel like that - I mean there were aspects of it, but it mostly felt like "get good enough weapons, mash a few buttons, level up". I'm pretty sure I could have learnt the different mechanics of the battle system better if I looked up shit on the Internet, but I grew up with games in the 90's where you only had your friends as resources - I don't want a datalog (re: XIII), I don't want to have to go online to look up shit, I want the game to teach me, by forcing me to learn it. Older FF games were much better at this than XV IMO.
Since I don't work with this I can't even be sure whether or not I'm putting my finger on exactly what it was that turned me off XV's gameplay and battle system. I just know there's something that made the game feel tiresome and dull and pretty much work to get through, and that made me feel all meh as the credits rolled. "That's it? Oh well. (...) Better go clean the shower then."
(PS, I know that by "game design" you're not referring to the battle system or even gameplay design alone.
I just went on a rant about the battle system in particular.)
Since I don't work with this I can't even be sure whether or not I'm putting my finger on exactly what it was that turned me off XV's gameplay and battle system. I just know there's something that made the game feel tiresome and dull and pretty much work to get through, and that made me feel all meh as the credits rolled. "That's it? Oh well. (...) Better go clean the shower then."
(PS, I know that by "game design" you're not referring to the battle system or even gameplay design alone.
I just went on a rant about the battle system in particular.)
hian
Purist
Okay then - to stay on topic I'll add to my predictions that I think we'll get some decent developer interviews on the back of E3.
Summary of some of my FFXV complaints :
Summary of some of my FFXV complaints :
My issues with FFXV are numorous :
1.) I found the gameplay to be mindnumbling boring and uninspired.
-The lack of multi character control creates the same annoying NPC issues you'd expect from any other action game featuring uncontrollable sidekicks.
- The magic system is lackluster and feels like a cheap tack on
- The battle system is an altogether boring affair of all flash no substance
- Way too much walking and doing fetch quests in samey environments
2.) I found the story to be both poorly conceived, delivered and of course, incomplete.
- The entire premise of the fall of Insomnia is dumb, especially given the game's focus on realism. Given that the city is surrounded by hostile territory the city should have no means with which to feed its citizens, which means that the empire could just have starved everyone out. Going through political and military contrivances was completely unnecessary and dumb.
- The lack of general exposition meant that what little story we did get served felt disjointed and jumpy.
- The cinematography of the game is generally atrocious.
General criticism :
- The soundtrack was bad. And no don't mean to say that the soundtrack didn't have any solid tracks in it, it obviously did. Bigger problem is that it only had a few strong titular themes with memorable leitmotifs among a plethora of entirely generic and forgettable tracks. That's bad IMO when FF games usually deliver multiple disk OSTs where pretty much every track is memorable.
- buggy
- bullshit patching and DLC practices trying to fix problems that forever tarnished the impression of players who bought and played the game on launch.
- Poor open world design making the game, which is probably the largest in the series in terms of space, feel like the smallest in the series.
- Trying, and failing miserably, to replicate iconic FF moments, like the death of Aerith demonstrating a clear lack of unerstanding and appreciation of why those moments become iconic to begin with. Killing off an NPC the player has been given no time to get attached to, is not good writing
Sum sumarum : I thought the gameplay was horribly boring and the story extremely lacking, on top of a soundtrack that generally felt lackluster except for certain themes, in a world that looked and felt both small and samey
Not much to inspire like there for me personally.
1.) I found the gameplay to be mindnumbling boring and uninspired.
-The lack of multi character control creates the same annoying NPC issues you'd expect from any other action game featuring uncontrollable sidekicks.
- The magic system is lackluster and feels like a cheap tack on
- The battle system is an altogether boring affair of all flash no substance
- Way too much walking and doing fetch quests in samey environments
2.) I found the story to be both poorly conceived, delivered and of course, incomplete.
- The entire premise of the fall of Insomnia is dumb, especially given the game's focus on realism. Given that the city is surrounded by hostile territory the city should have no means with which to feed its citizens, which means that the empire could just have starved everyone out. Going through political and military contrivances was completely unnecessary and dumb.
- The lack of general exposition meant that what little story we did get served felt disjointed and jumpy.
- The cinematography of the game is generally atrocious.
General criticism :
- The soundtrack was bad. And no don't mean to say that the soundtrack didn't have any solid tracks in it, it obviously did. Bigger problem is that it only had a few strong titular themes with memorable leitmotifs among a plethora of entirely generic and forgettable tracks. That's bad IMO when FF games usually deliver multiple disk OSTs where pretty much every track is memorable.
- buggy
- bullshit patching and DLC practices trying to fix problems that forever tarnished the impression of players who bought and played the game on launch.
- Poor open world design making the game, which is probably the largest in the series in terms of space, feel like the smallest in the series.
- Trying, and failing miserably, to replicate iconic FF moments, like the death of Aerith demonstrating a clear lack of unerstanding and appreciation of why those moments become iconic to begin with. Killing off an NPC the player has been given no time to get attached to, is not good writing
Sum sumarum : I thought the gameplay was horribly boring and the story extremely lacking, on top of a soundtrack that generally felt lackluster except for certain themes, in a world that looked and felt both small and samey
Not much to inspire like there for me personally.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I certainly hope so.
hian said:
They've already sustained themselves for 31 years with the Wall scaled back to the city's ramparts. They most likely produce food inside the city walls. The outer edges on at least two sides are shown to be primarily vegetation.
This is easily one of the best things about the game.hian said:
hian
Purist
Come on Twilight. The idea that they've sustained themselves for 31 one years while scaling back the wall is ridiculous. Look at the parts immediately surrounding the city. How much of that suggests farm lands? As for producing food within the city - even a cursery glance tells us that's unfeasible. Providing basic food for that kinda size of city requires farm lands that would demand another city worth of lands.
Have you seen the amount of land necssary just to maintain a single family living purely off of the land for one year? Where do they keep the livestock, where are the massive fields necessary to grow rice or wheat?
You're not getting out of this that easily =p
Have you seen the amount of land necssary just to maintain a single family living purely off of the land for one year? Where do they keep the livestock, where are the massive fields necessary to grow rice or wheat?
You're not getting out of this that easily =p
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I didn't say the developers were capable of designing an infrastructure that would make all that work in real life. 
Just a) that the "starve them out" plan clearly wouldn't work since it hasn't worked in over 30 years (in fact, life in Insomnia is described as cushy); and b) that there's something within the fiction to address the resource issue. For me, that's enough. I'm not expecting a gaggle of game developers to have figured out a solution to starvation. =P
Just a) that the "starve them out" plan clearly wouldn't work since it hasn't worked in over 30 years (in fact, life in Insomnia is described as cushy); and b) that there's something within the fiction to address the resource issue. For me, that's enough. I'm not expecting a gaggle of game developers to have figured out a solution to starvation. =P