Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

Via Purifico

Pro Adventurer
Couple of cute moments if anyone's interested.
During the sewers intro in chapter 10 if you let Cloud idle he turns his head to look at Tifa. Or maybe he's just looking left and it's a funny coincidence.

Before they get swept up by the whirlwind in chapter 18, you see Cloud cover his face with his forearm. Then Aerith screams, then Red, then Tifa. When that happens, Cloud looks up at her. While he's in the process of looking, Barret gets swept up and then it's his turn.

And then during the battle with the harbingers, the red one is about to cut Tifa up while she's caught in a vision of meteor and Cloud leaps across the broken part of the expressway to protect her.
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
It was finally his chance.

It did definitely begin when Jessie died. He had felt the powerlessness of beiung unable to help her out, despite all the strength he had - he just didn't know how to deal with her tears and her pain.

Then, when Barret stepped up, he had watched from afar. So, that was how Tifa could be comforted, he noted duly. He had no clue but he saw that Tifa felt maybe a little bit better? Cloud had picked her up anyway, he wasn't ready to lose her - he'd drag her out of death's hands if needed. At least he got to be a little her hero there.

Now that he thought about it, it was weird that Barret told her the very same thing that Sephiroth had told him: "Hold onto that anger". He and Tifa shared many things after all.

The same past.

The same anger.

The same sadness.

The same pain.

His arms went for a comforting hug. He felt everything too, burning his soul in a way he didn't anticipate. At the same time, he also felt Tifa's sorrow, and that was as unbearable as his own feelings. He couldn't think anymore, just feel, Tifa against him, her sobs, what they had lost, dreams of normalcy evaporating, friends being killed...

"Cloud... you're hurting me."

Tifa's voice brought him back, and he suddenly let her go, feeling awkward and stupid. What was he doing?

"Thank you," she said while drying her last teardrops. "It's stupid, I know that crying's a waste of time."

So, it had worked! He had comforted Tifa! He felt confident again.

"That's not true," he said.

Whenever she needed it, he knew that he could dry those tears away now. That he could be her hero.

Little ficlet about the ch14 scene! Also just so you know, I typed that in the answer box so I don't have it posted/saved anywhere else lol. Maybe in a few years I'll hate it so it's better like that haha.

Whoops I see that a lot of discussion is going on, please be my guest and ignore me :D

No, you are always welcome for discussion! I interpreted that scene the same. It was a powerful moment between the two. I was screaming at my TV screen about "Cloud, you big dummy you better Hug her!"
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Wait, so the only time he glitches out is when something contradicts his Zack memories? I see what you mean. However, I might be misremembering something but I always thought that Cloud glitching out is not entirely exclusive to Zack's memories.

If that is true than I would think that seeing a visible scar on Tifa would short circuit Cloud. It would bring him back to that scene that he witnessed Tifa getting slashed.

Actually I think I am over thinking things. I will go sit down at the bar and have a drink. :lol:
No Cloud glitching out isn't exclusive to contradictions/challenges to his false memories, it's more that said challenges to his memory always cause a glitch, while other triggers are more random.
And my point is that Tifa having a scar isn't a challenge to Cloud's memory, its information he already knows.

Also neither Zack or Cloud directly witnessed Tifa being slashed, they both only saw the aftermath. Only the player sees it directly occur.
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
No Cloud glitching out isn't exclusive to contradictions/challenges to his false memories, it's more that said challenges to his memory always cause a glitch, while other triggers are more random.
And my point is that Tifa having a scar isn't a challenge to Cloud's memory, its information he already knows.

Also neither Zack or Cloud directly witnessed Tifa being slashed, they both only saw the aftermath. Only the player sees it directly occur.

The in game dialog seems to say that he saw everything. That is at least what Cloud said, during that sequence in the life-stream.

Your point still stands. I guess I am trying to make a mountain out of mole hill.

Edited to add:

 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
The in game dialog seems to say that he saw everything. That is at least what Cloud said, during that sequence in the life-stream.

Your point still stands. I guess I am trying to make a mountain out of mole hill.
And I am saying that that line is likely not meant to be taken literally, but rather referring to his general Nibelheim event knowledge as actually having occurred, it's part of the build up to revealing him as the grunt, even the OG shows him coming in after Zack (who comes in after Tifa has already fallen down the stairs ).
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
And I am saying that that line is likely not meant to be taken literally, but rather referring to his general Nibelheim event knowledge as actually having occurred, it's part of the build up to revealing him as the grunt, even the OG shows him coming in after Zack (who comes in after Tifa has already fallen down the stairs ).

Sorry, I was editing when you were replying back. I attached a visual reference.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Sorry, I was editing when you were replying back. I attached a visual reference.
Yes, I have seen that scene too many times, and as that scene shows he comes in after Zack has been defeated, which occurred after Tifa got slashed. It's not a line meant to be literally taken.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Yeah but I needed to put down what took him so long :monster: It was either that or either "whatdoIdowhatdoIdoOMGwhatdoIdo???" LMAO
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
Yeah but I needed to put down what took him so long :monster: It was either that or either "whatdoIdowhatdoIdoOMGwhatdoIdo???" LMAO

"He tried to act like an adult, but failed to do so. " I think Nomura said this.

At first It was an awkward moment, but I think his emotions started to boil over hearing Tifa cry so all his "true self" feelings for her begin to surface along with desire to comfort her! He couldn't help himself but to squeeze her, (too hard) never wanting to let her go. I wonder how long they would have stayed like that if Tifa wouldn't have said that he was hurting her.

Tifa: "It's stupid, I know that crying is a waste of time"
Cloud: "That is not true."
Tifa: "Thank you"

I think that Cloud's awkward message, reached Tifa. :neo:
 

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
Well three weeks have passed and finally ready to roll out this first analysis that was to be just a part of a larger post but this bit ended up taking alot more effort than I anticipated so I figured I'd go ahead and get this posted for folks to read over and devour in the meantime. This will focus exclusively on scenes involving Cloud and Tifa in the Original 1997 Game and how they were depicted (or omitted) in the recently released Remake. I'll be going over them one by one and giving my personal opinion if I consider it a positive or negative development for Cloti, or no real change at all. I'll put the actual analysis below in a spoiler tag so as not to break the page for folks just wishing to check other posts.
Barret states "Heh heh...you wanna meet your little baby?" if you rush over to Seventh Heaven.
The equivalent dialog is moved earlier now at the train station where Barret says "See you soon. At Seventh Heaven? You know, where Tifa works? Don't keep her waiting. She'll worry." While it still emphasizes a need to hurry over to her, it does remove Barret's frank assumption of Cloud's feelings regarding Tifa.

You have the option to give the Flower to either Tifa or Marlene. When Tifa sees the flower, she remarks that you almost never see them in the slums and graciously asks if its for her while telling Cloud he shouldn't have. If given to Tifa, she thanks him for it and remarks that it smells wonderful while considering whether she should fill the bar with more.
The flower is now given to Tifa directly when arriving at Seventh Heaven. She still mentions how rare they are in the slums when she first sees it but does not inquire if it is for her. Cloud of his own volition gives it to her in a cheesily romantic manner; she now says after receiving the flower "How sweet. When did you get so thoughtful?" Cloud responds "A guy can change. Has been five years."

Tifa offers to make a drink for Cloud, he can either accept or refuse. If he refuses, she does not make a drink for him but remarks that her drinks are considered the best tasting. If he accepts, she makes one for him while making small talk about the recently completed mission.
The scene is moved to the next day just prior to the Avalanche meeting concerning the Sector 5 Reactor Mission. Regardless of whether you accept her offer to make a drink or state that you are not in the mood presently, Tifa prepares a pair of drinks for Cloud as they flirt with one another. This culminates with Cloud holding up the second drink, the house special, slightly to the side as he gazes upon Tifa and remarks "Beautiful". Obviously flustered, Tifa turns away briefly before stating she has to go and making her way downstairs for the meeting but not before glancing back over her shoulder at Cloud and sweetly telling him to enjoy his drink.

Tifa shows concern for Cloud as he heads downstairs for the Avalanche meeting.
The equivalent to this scene is moved to the next day while Cloud and Tifa are undertaking tasks for the Neighborhood Watch. As Cloud remarks that him and the Buster Sword have been through alot together, he suffers one of his painful mental attacks. Tifa asks if he is okay and unsuccessfully attempts to guide the conversation into finding out what happened to Cloud after he left the village. The original game's scene seems prompted merely by Cloud's haggard appearance whereas the Remake ties it directly to Cloud's periodic episodes that he suffers which I feel makes more sense and shows a better connection and attempt by Tifa in figuring out what has happened to Cloud.

As Cloud begins to leave after his fight with Barret, Tifa begs Cloud to stay unsuccessfully at first. She then questions if he is truly going to walk out on her, bringing up the Promise that he had forgotten he had made to her in the past. Even in spite of this, he is still initially unwilling to keep the Promise and stay until further cajoling by Tifa and receiving payment from Barret.
The beginning of this scene is completely omitted from the Remake, removing one of the low points between Cloud and Tifa when they appear to be at odds. The actual Promise scene is now moved a day later in the midst of the nighttime mission with the Avalanche Trio. As Biggs and Wedge go over the details of their imminent diversion, Cloud gazes up at a turbine atop the adjacent building and is immediately reminded of the town well in Nibelheim. This initiates a flashback (without a painful mental attack I might add) to the childhood Promise made between Cloud and Tifa the night he told her he was setting out to become a member of SOLDIER in Midgar. The actual scene plays out largely as it did in the original with added emphasis to Tifa's sorrow upon hearing that Cloud will be leaving. Once Cloud finishes his recollection, he recalls the conversation with Tifa earlier that day in the bar and comes to realize that she is in trouble, albeit emotionally, and resolves to stay in Midgar and help her. This resolution is confirmed later that night in a conversation between the two in Cloud's apartment. I'd also like to note that unlike the original game, Cloud remembers the Promise on his own without Tifa present prompting him to recall it.

Cloud has the choice to respond to Tifa's inquiry on how well he slept by stating "Next to you, who wouldn't?" If chosen, Tifa avoids the obvious flirting saying she doesn't know what he means by that.
This scene is omitted from the Remake but in a way alluded to in that Tifa and Cloud are now neighbors at the Stargazer Heights Apartments. While this particular bit of flirtation is now absent, it is made up for in other new instances of flirting, including one that occurs when Tifa pays a visit to Cloud's room one night.

Slums Gossiper says everyone was watching you and Tifa in the bar last night and doesn't buy your story as merely her childhood friend.
There are extensive amounts of new NPC dialog as you traverse through the Sector 7 Slums inquiring about Cloud and Tifa and the nature of the relationship between them.

Tifa invites Cloud over to look at the Railway Map Monitor. In spite of realizing he has already seen it the prior day with Jessie, she invites him to come in alittle closer to her to watch it again.
This scene is omitted from the Remake, while not an important one it is an early and direct attempt by Tifa for Cloud to be a bit more comfortable with her. While there has been a few such scenes in the Remake by this point, most notably the discovery scene in her room, they are generally indirect compared to this request from the original game.

When confronted by Cloud on why she came on the mission despite her fears, she is about to explain when Barret cuts her off.
This scene is omitted from the Remake, as while Tifa is dealing with nervous tension regarding the mission it is never discussed as directly like this in the original game. Tifa redirects Cloud to focus on Barret to keep him in line instead. It is hard to say for sure how much Tifa was willing to open up in the original scene before she is cut off by Barret, it is possible it could have merely amounted to an extended pause before shaking her head.

As they approach the core of the Sector 5 Reactor, Cloud is struck by a painful mental attack as he witnesses a flashback of Tifa during the Nibelheim Incident.
This scene plays out nearly the same in the Remake with the only differences being the first half of the dialog from the flashback being cut and once Cloud recovers, Tifa does not ask him if he is all right although it is apparent by her body language she is concerned and checking on him still in the Remake.

As Cloud hangs for his life from the Reactor walkway, Tifa pleads with him to not die as there is still so much she wishes to tell him. Cloud cryptically responds that he knows (does he mean he doesn't wish to die yet or he wishes to catch up with Tifa more?) As Cloud falls, Tifa reaches out for him as Barret pulls her back to prevent her falling off too.
This scene is handled much more differently in the Remake as it is Cloud and not Tifa who does most of the talking in this scene. It is much more apparent by Tifa's body language that she is in complete anguish at Cloud's predicament and unwilling to leave with Barret having to throw her over his shoulder to get her out of there at Cloud's request. That said, I feel the omission of Tifa's admission that she still has so much she wishes to tell him yet does make this scene a bit less for them.

When you mention you need to go to Tifa's bar to Aerith, she asks if Tifa is a girl, then if she is a girlfriend. You can either confirm or deny; if you confirm Aerith responds slightly jealously, if you deny Aerith giggles at your flustered response and says you don't need to be so vehement about it.
This scene plays out very differently in the Remake, firstly in that Cloud never mentions needing to go to Tifa's bar specifically but just the Sector 7 Slums in general. Secondly, the discussion concerning Tifa happens separately from those moments and now is brought up after Cloud suffers one of his painful mental attacks and whispers Tifa's name after seeing a flashback of her. Aerith jumps right into asking if Tifa is Cloud's girlfriend which Cloud curtly denies which Aerith doesn't buy as she observes that she is someone special to him. Cloud continues to deny what Aerith is hinting at but finds himself at a loss of words to describe what Tifa truly means to him. Aerith lets the conversation end saying "I see..." with a slight smile at Cloud's flustered explanation. While the choice of stating that Tifa is your girlfriend is removed, the scene we have in the Remake I feel is more meaningful as it shows Cloud's unwillingness to bare his true feelings for Tifa openly quite yet but its plainly obvious there is something there as he verbally stumbles around it.

While with Aerith at the park, Cloud spots Tifa in the back of a carriage on the way to Wall Market. He stares in stunned silence, only giving chase after Aerith ignores his request to leave it to him as she dashes ahead.
This scene is handled extremely differently in the Remake starting with when Cloud recognizes that it is Tifa in the carriage he does not stand there paralyzed in shock but rather immediately gives chase, jumping onto the back of it as Tifa expresses her shock to see Cloud alive, believing that she had lost him. When Cloud inquires what is going on, Tifa says she will explain everything later and that she is on her way to see Don Corneo and requests that Cloud wait for her back at Seventh Heaven. Cloud begins to vehemently object but Tifa cuts him off explaining that she will be fine as she has proven she can hold her own which Cloud acknowledges albeit with a disheartened look on his face. Aerith immediately confronts Cloud, ordering him to go after her and dismisses Cloud's assessment of Tifa's capabilities, stating that he has no idea of what Corneo is capable of. Playing to Cloud's concerns for and desire to help Tifa, he finally yields and resolves to save Tifa. While the resolution of the scene plays out similarly to the original in that Cloud follows Aerith's lead, the expanded content speaks volumes about Cloud's respect for Tifa's capabilities and wishes.

You can ask the Honeybee Inn doorman about Tifa and he responds that she is their newest girl and currently undergoing the standard interview at Corneo's Mansion before beginning work at the Inn. It is mentioned as an aside that Corneo is currently looking for a bride.
This scene is moved over to the new NPC Chocobo Sam, additionally the aspect of Tifa eventually working at the Honeybee Inn is dropped and she is merely meeting with Don Corneo directly to be considered his bride. When Sam inquires what you want with 'this girl' that was recently on one of his carriages, Cloud begins to spill the beans before Aerith interrupts to say "Save her from a life without this handsome guy!". Sam mentions he transports lots of girls and for you to describe her so he can figure out who you specifically are looking for. While you are provided three options, all lead to Sam correctly guessing you are referring to Tifa and comments that someone has a crush. Sam however goes on to say it is likely going to be a long time before you ever see her again as her beauty measures up exactly to Corneo's specific tastes in women.

When you first reach Corneo's Mansion, Aerith offers to go right in to check on Tifa and tell her about you. Cloud vehemently denies Aerith's offer, fully aware of what kind of place this is and telling her its too dangerous for her to naively go in alone. Cloud is also hesitant to barge in as he realizes it would cause too much of a commotion.
This scene is split into two separate moments in the Remake, your initial visit and when you return while Aerith is getting dressed at Madam M's. One significant change from the original game is that it is Cloud who comes off as the naive one as Aerith seems more privy to Corneo and his antics and fills in Cloud on the history of Wall Market. By the second scene, Cloud seems to be getting a grasp of how dangerous of a place this can be after Leslie warns him about Corneo's potential to harm anyone if Cloud were foolish enough to barge in (another change from the original as Cloud appears to have no qualms about causing a commotion until the repercussions are spelled out for him).

Cloud is uncomfortable with the Bikini Briefs he receives from Mukki, but resolves to press on in his efforts and wear them to save Tifa.
The equivalent to this scene is changed somewhat from the original but still occurs in the Honeybee Inn segment of Wall Market. The changes include the removal of Mukki and the accessories (one of which is the underwear) acquired alongside the dress however Cloud's discomfort with crossdressing and his reason for pressing on regardless remain the same. When Cloud expresses hesitation in going into the Honeybee Inn to be dressed up as a woman, Aerith responds "C'mon. Don't you wanna save Tifa?" which leads Cloud to press on despite his obvious discomfort. After the show, Cloud initially ignores Aerith repeatedly as he finds a quiet place away from the crowds and even when he finally responds he does not wish to discuss it at all.

When they first find Tifa, Cloud turns away as he is embarrassed with his appearance and what her initial reaction will be.
This scene is omitted from the Remake as Cloud awakens in Corneo's Basement with Tifa looking over him so there is no means for him to avoid her. The only hint towards Cloud's embarrassment is when Tifa recognizes that it is him and begins to comment on his outfit, he curtly cuts off further questioning by saying "Nailed it, I know. Thank you. Moving on."

As Tifa and Aerith introduce themselves, Tifa realizes Aerith was the one with Cloud at the park and begins to brood. When Aerith seeks to assuage her fears, Tifa downplays her feelings and reiterates that they are merely friends. Aerith jests that Cloud is hearing that neither of them consider him romantically in any way.
The entirety of this segment in the Corneo Basement has been removed in the Remake. The only thing that is remotely similar is the brief introduction Aerith provides to Tifa but aside from that, Tifa doesn't appear to have seen Aerith at the park nor does she brood at this point regarding Aerith. Nor is there any downplaying of their feelings regarding Cloud in this scene. I could see the argument to be made that the removal of Tifa's jealously and downplaying her feelings for Cloud could be seen as a slight positive but I feel its more neutral in the larger context of the Remake.

When she realizes the other girl is Cloud, Tifa is absolutely floored. She begins to pepper him with questions concerning his current appearance and why he is in the Mansion before asking what happened after his fall and if he is hurt at all. Cloud explains that his crossdressing was the only means to get into the Mansion and that he is alright thanks to Aerith's assistance. Tifa once again regards Aerith's role with brooding.
The aspects of this segment in Corneo's Basement are either omitted or moved to other parts of the Remake. The only part that remains fully intact is Tifa's overreaction when she realizes that the girl before her is actually Cloud in women's clothing. Her question about his outfit is merely a statement now that Cloud cuts off and she never inquires as to why he is in the Mansion. As for her questions regarding what happened to him and if he is hurt after what happened at the Reactor, this takes place earlier during the carriage scene outside the park in the form of a statement. Cloud never explains the purpose of his outfit and with regards to him being alright due to Aerith's assistance and Tifa regarding their connection with suspicion, this now takes place later when you awaken Tifa in the sewers prior to the Abzu fight. This segment was certainly torn apart in all directions compared to the original.

Cloud redirects the conversation back to why Tifa is in such a place, Aerith's naive nature is shown once again as she walks away and covers her ears to prevent hearing any dirty details. Tifa states she is glad that Cloud is okay after that fall before recounting events that followed the return after the Reactor Mission. In spite of Barret's objections, Tifa decided to meet with Corneo to hear the details directly from him. Unfortunately, her plan had begun to fall apart when she realized upon arrival that there would be other girls besides her being interviewed.
The first half of this segment is largely omitted with the latter half still present with some slight changes. The closest equivalent to Cloud asking why Tifa is in such a place is him saying "What?" after Tifa refuses to leave until she got what she came for. At no point in the conversation does Aerith separate herself from the conversation which matches up with the earlier removal of her naivety regarding Corneo and Wall Market. Tifa's statement about Cloud's condition was covered during the carriage scene as noted before. With that mess out of the way, we can finally focus on the largely intact second half. There are some slight changes from the original in that it was not one but a handful of Corneo's men who were asking questions around the Slums and rather than Barret catching them and squeezing the exact details from them directly, Tifa did some information digging without direct contact but could not figure out why they were interested in Avalanche. The rest of this segment plays out exactly like the original with Tifa deciding to go undercover to get the exact information from Corneo directly but found her plan falling apart when she realized there would be other candidates aside from her. It is left ambivalent in the Remake if Barret is either unaware or in support of Tifa's efforts.

Despite her earlier actions, Aerith had been listening in on the conversation and chimed in that there was no issue as between them all they were guaranteed for someone to be selected to privately meet with Corneo. Cloud initially objects to the plan, desiring to put neither Aerith or Tifa in danger, however both girls are fully committed to the plan. As Cloud concedes his objections Tifa briefly giggles and remarks on Cloud's appearance, wondering what Barret would think of it.
This segment is somewhat intact in the Remake but the changes are all over the place. While Aerith did not separate herself from the conversation, she had been on the sidelines after introducing herself until chiming in with a solution to Tifa's dilemma. Unlike the original, Cloud displays no overt objection and merely a slight hesitation before going along with Aerith's idea. If anything it is Tifa who expresses reservations about involving Aerith in her plan, feeling it is wrong to drag her into Avalanche's affairs. The last bit where Tifa teases Cloud about his appearance and ponders what Barret would say if he could see Cloud now was completely removed.

During the Corneo lineup, Tifa maintains her composure and even lets out a stereotypical devious laugh hiding her intentions if he selects her. If Aerith is selected, Cloud meets Tifa running up the steps after she has handily dispatched Kotch. If you ask her if she is alright, she seems to be a bit offended and to not take her lightly. If you tell her that we have got to help Aerith now, she also seems a bit offended that you aren't as concerned for her as she would hope but does not dwell on it for long.
The Remake completely omits any possibility of either Tifa or Aerith being selected by Corneo. It is slightly noticeable during the lineup scene that while Aerith handles the situation with a cool demeanor, Tifa struggles as she turns her head away from Corneo as he closely inspects her and her breath hitches a couple times; especially when it seems like Corneo is about to select Tifa as she grimaces. With the removal of the dialog choices you have with Tifa if Aerith is chosen, the game removes a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation for Cloti as Tifa reacts offended either way.

If Cloud is selected and plays along with Corneo, Tifa is stunned when she enters and almost asks Cloud if he really was about to kiss him. Tifa leads the interrogation of Corneo, asking the questions while Cloud and Aerith chime in with bodily threats when he is uncooperative.
This scene plays out identical in spirit (slightly different wording) to the original with the exception that Cloud completely blows off Corneo during their entire time alone with no hint of him putting on an act that could potentially lead to a kiss.

In the sewers, Tifa is initially despondent and believes it is too late to save anyone. Aerith cheers her up and to not give up hope as there is still time to prevent Shinra's destruction of the support pillar.
This scene is stretched out to encompass numerous scenes throughout the entirety of the Sewers and then Train Graveyard in the Remake. Cloud, Tifa and Aerith initially can't figure out if Corneo was telling the truth or lying about Shinra planning to drop the plate on the Slums. They start to come around to the reasonable conclusion that Corneo must be lying since even Shinra would not resort to such a reckless and costly endeavor to wipe out Avalanche but Tifa starts to give in to second guessing as Aerith reassures her that the future isn't set in stone and redirects her towards more pleasant thoughts. When they escape the Sewers, they see Shinra copters fly overhead however Cloud merely writes it off as just a standard patrol. The awful truth however is finally laid bare when they overhear radio communication amongst the Turks concerning the assault on the support pillar and passing along the plate separation code.

At the base of the pillar, Cloud asks Aerith to look after a dying Wedge before Tifa requests her to find Marlene at Seventh Heaven. Aerith tells her not to worry and that she will take her somewhere safe. Tifa then turns to the surrounding crowd and tells them to get out of the area as it is no longer safe before her and Cloud start to dash up the pillar together.
This scene is split up and spread out across numerous scenes now in the Remake with rather substantial changes throughout. Wedge survives his fall although with numerous injuries as Cloud tells Tifa and Aerith to stay behind and look after him while he starts to head up the pillar alone. Cloud's progress up the pillar is temporarily halted under sustained fire from the Turks' copter which causes some metal pipes to nearly come down upon Aerith and Wedge only to be saved by Tifa. As Tifa gazes with concern up at the pillar and says she must go help them, Aerith tells her to "Go. Follow your heart." Just before she starts to race up the pillar, Tifa turns to make a request of Aerith who knowingly responds that she wants Aerith to get Marlene to safety and she assures Tifa that she will find her. A recuperated Wedge, with Aerith's encouragement, leads the effort to evacuate the people of the Slums to the adjacent Sector 6. Back at the pillar, Cloud saves Tifa from the Turks' gunfire and together they continue their climb up the pillar. Aerith's choice of wording towards Tifa, even though not outright romantic, seems to be a bit on the nose and intentional given that could have been phrased in so many other ways. The banter between Cloud and Tifa after he saves her, for me personally, comes off as unintentionally flirtatious.

At the top of the pillar, Tifa is unsure how to manually disarm the bomb that has been initiated by Reno and asks for Cloud and Barret to take care of it. When Tseng arrives with Aerith, she briefly assures Tifa that Marlene is safe before being slapped by Tseng. As the pillar starts to break apart, Tifa tells them they have to hurry as she gazes up at the pillar before rushing over to Barret when he finds a way to escape.
The scene plays out in the same sequence as in the original but with some notable changes in the Remake. Rude joins Reno atop the pillar as they seek to carry out the mission assigned to them as Avalanche makes their last stand to protect Sector 7. Tifa is still unsure how to disarm the primed bomb awaiting activation however instead of asking for Cloud and Barret's assistance she just gazes at the terminal in confusion. Tifa's hesitation provides Rude the opportunity to dash in and knock her aside so that he can initiate the pillar's self destruct sequence. In a very sensible change, Tseng does not arrive in person with Aerith upon a copter whereupon Barret fires a short barrage at them but rather speaks to them via video telecom from the pillar terminal. Aerith dashes in to let Tifa know that she found Marlene but is cut off by Tseng before she can say anything further. As the pillar breaks apart a distraught Tifa looks over the ledge helplessly in a catatonic state, leading Cloud to grab ahold of her and lead her to the means of escape found by Barret. Cloud's concern and care for Tifa in this scene is endearing, especially considering that unlike the earlier carriage scene where he listened to her, he takes control when he sees the state she is in and saves her.

In the aftermath of the destruction of Sector 7, Barret is losing it until Tifa tries to break through to him to please stop as he unloads a volley of bullets into the wreckage before his anger fully runs its course. Once drained, he sadly thinks of Marlene but Tifa mentions that she believes she is safe based off of what Aerith briefly said before. Her emotions swiftly change however when she starts to think about the rest of Avalanche and others of Sector 7 and inquires whether it is their fault after Barret states that Shinra killed everyone just to get at them. Barret admonishes her and insists it is Shinra's fault however Tifa remains overwhelmed by her sense of guilt over what has transpired.
This scene plays out largely the same as it does in the original although events are slightly reordered and changed. Barret is found by Cloud and Tifa lamenting the perceived losses of Marlene and the members of Avalanche before succumbing to rage as he pounds the rubble before him. He no longer fires his gun into the wreckage and Tifa waits for his rage to wane before approaching him. Tifa's prior moral dilemma over Avalanche's methods leads her to express the belief that they brought this upon themselves. Barret solemnly disputes this, arguing that whatever Avalanche did prior to today it was Shinra's choice to escalate matters. Tifa despondently agrees with him as she struggles to hold in the brewing anger within leading to Barret to turn and comfort her while telling her to hold onto her anger for another day. In a change from the original it is Cloud who mentions that Marlene is fine, reminding them that Aerith said she had found her. Barret angrily seeks clarification and Tifa states she requested Aerith to find Marlene and take her somewhere safe.

As Cloud starts to head off towards Sector 5, Barret lets Tifa know there is no turning back at this point. She lingers a bit longer, giving one last glance back at Sector 7 before following the other two. When they catch up to Cloud, Tifa inquires whether he is going to go rescue Aerith. Cloud confirms but states he wishes to know more about the Ancients first. This triggers another painful episode as he recalls Sephiroth claiming to be an Ancient back in Nibelheim. As Cloud starts to recover from his episode, Tifa once more inquires if Cloud is truly all right.
The flow of the scene is largely intact with some noticeable changes to the dialog that occurs in this segment. Barret no longer hangs back to tell Tifa that there is no turning back, his mind fully focused on Marlene as he gives chase after Cloud. Tifa's gaze at the wreckage before she follows has more meaning now that we can see facial expressions. Tifa asking if Cloud is going to go rescue Aerith is replaced by extended questioning about Marlene from Barret before transitioning to the three of them discussing the Ancients now that it has been revealed that Aerith is one. Cloud still suffers from a painful mental attack, flashing back to Sephiroth's claims in Nibelheim, before recovering only to find an illusion of Sephiroth approaching and goading him. Cloud's panicked state has Tifa run back to him in concern but he says it is nothing and presses on.

At Elmyra's house, Tifa claims it is her fault that Aerith got captured as she got her involved in all of this. In spite of Elmyra's reassurances that Aerith wouldn't think that, Tifa remains depressed.
The sequence of events in this segment are completely reordered from the original as Barret rushes to check on Marlene upon arrival before everyone returns back downstairs to discuss the situation concerning Aerith with Elmyra. It is at this point that Tifa claims she took advantage of Aerith's kindness and got her involved by asking her to get Marlene. After this, Elmyra goes into her history with Aerith and Shinra's long held interest with her being an Ancient. In the original game, the sequence of events were Elmyra's exposition, then Tifa's claim of fault with Barret checking on Marlene at the end. I think the reorder is an improvement as it is hard to believe Barret would have been patient enough to sit through all of that without knowing that Marlene is safe and sound. It is hard to tell if Elmyra's reassurances help Tifa at all here unlike the original game but admittedly Tifa has so much on her mind and so much guilt in her heart besides what happened to Aerith.

Upstairs when you check with Marlene, she enthusiastically tells Cloud that Aerith was asking her all sorts of questions about him. When she says she bets Aerith likes him, Cloud can respond that he hopes so or that he doesn't know. If he hopes so, Marlene promises not to tell Tifa. If he doesn't know, Marlene calls him stupid.
This scene is completely omitted from the Remake with no allusions to it to be found anywhere in the game. This makes sense given the known bond that Tifa and Marlene form over time as seen in the movie Advent Children. This bond is even hinted at in the game during a flashback seen in the Train Graveyard. I think its an improvement now that Marlene isn't used as a mere chip to be played in the LTD/Affection system but rather that her character is more fully fleshed out in the Remake.

When Cloud starts to head out to go after Aerith, Tifa comes to join him. Cloud tells her to prepare for the worst and Tifa responds that she has to push herself right now as if she were to sit idle she would be consumed by her guilt and depression.
This segment is initially subverted but ultimately merely delayed by a day as just like the original game Cloud is about to set off to rescue Aerith immediately only for Elmyra to beg him not to get involved any further and potentially make things worse. Tifa reasons with Cloud to listen to Elmyra and that maybe it would be better waiting for now while Barret reminds the both of them that they have more pressing matters back in Sector 7 in searching for survivors. After witnessing the human experimentation done by Shinra in the underground facility, Cloud presses Elmyra once more to allow them to go after Aerith. Elmyra requests more time to consider things and for them to rest the night. When she is pressed once more in the morning, Elmyra relents and requests that they bring Aerith back to her. The dialog where Tifa states she needs to take part otherwise she would be consumed by the dark emotions eating away at her has been removed in the Remake.

Outside Shinra HQ, Tifa urges caution and to find an alternative plan to bursting through the front doors. Cloud can choose to go along with her instincts and discover a side entrance with an extensive staircase.
The location and dialog is changed for this scene from the original with Cloud, Tifa and Barret overlooking the entrance in front of Shinra HQ from an adjacent suspended walkway. Just like in the original, Barret advocates for a frontal assault in a blaze of glory. Instead of Tifa, it is now Cloud who suggests accessing a rear entrance into the parking garage (another change from directly accessing the staircase). Once you have traversed the garage and entered the building and acquired a keycard, you are provided the equivalent to the route choice in the original between taking the staircase or riding the elevator up to the 59th floor.

As they go up the stairs, Barret and Tifa have a laugh at Cloud as they come to realize the impassive front he has been putting up might be false as Cloud seems driven to save Aerith.
This segment of dialog is omitted from the Remake, which makes sense as he has been gradually dropping his frosty exterior far earlier in the Remake than he did in the original.

Further up, Tifa sarcastically tells Barret to ask the stairs how much further they have to go after he bemoans their current situation. Shortly after, she snaps at him as he continues to pester her about whether they have reached the top.
The dialog plays out slightly differently with Barret asking if these stairs are ever gonna end. Tifa mockingly tells him to ask the stairs which elicits a deadpan response from Cloud. Barret is not amused and him and Cloud start to get snarky with each other before Tifa steps in to reprimand both of them.

Even further up, Barret snaps and states he is turning around and heading back down. When Tifa points out he would have to walk just as far back down as they have come up so far, Barret stews briefly before moaning that he is a mere man and not some SOLDIER like Cloud. Tifa responds in exasperation with him and continues to press on only to stop as she realizes she is unintentionally providing a clear view of her panties to both Cloud and Barret and demands they go ahead of her.
This segment of dialog now occurs near the very top of the stairs with Barret finally snapping and stating he is done with this route and wants to head back down. Just like in the original, Tifa points out the obvious in that he would have to walk just as far back down as he has come up so far. The latter half of this segment beginning with Barret complaining not to treat him to the same physical standards as Cloud, including Tifa's freakout when she realizes the view she is providing the two men behind her, is completely omitted from the Remake.

Near the very top of the staircase, Barret asks yet again where they are at and Tifa responds that she has lost count. Barret, out of sheer exhaustion, begins to rue that he may never get to see Marlene again and Tifa tells him to stop acting like a retard and press on since they are so close.
This segment of dialog is omitted from the Remake, which probably comes as no surprise to folks given the complaints that would have resulted surrounding the use of a particular word.

In Hojo's Lab, Tifa examines his 'precious specimen' (Red XIII) while Cloud looks into the window of a nearby chamber. Beholding Jenova, Cloud suffers a painful episode as he falls backwards, clutching his head on the floor. Tifa runs over immediately to him to see if he is okay and to reassure him.
This scene is moved to a later point in the Remake, after facing Hojo's creations, freeing Aerith and the discussion in Aerith's childhood room that replaces the jail cell sequence. By this point, Red XIII has already joined the party and even then there wasn't a moment where he is examined by Tifa or anyone else. As opposed to being relegated to a chamber off to the side in Hojo's lab, Jenova is placed in a far more elaborate enclosure front and center. The latter half of the scene in the original occurs relatively the same in the Remake with Cloud suffering one of his painful mental attacks upon beholding Jenova with the addition of flashbacks to Sephiroth and Tifa during the Nibelheim Incident. As Cloud continues to suffer, Tifa walks over to offer support and check on him only to back away soon after as she and the rest of the party come face to face with Sephiroth.

After dispatching the mutated monstrosity unleashed upon the party by Hojo, Aerith runs back in from wherever she went for safety. Cloud inquires if she is all right with Tifa adding that she appears all right...in many ways (alluding to the fact Hojo intended to breed her with Red XIII amongst other traumas she could have suffered).
The order of events in this segment are rearranged in the Remake as you only free Aerith on the next floor up after you defeat the mutated experiment unleashed upon you by Hojo. As Aerith comes out of the chamber that Barret just freed her from Tifa asks Aerith "You good?" and
Aerith responds "I'm great!", changing both the speakers and dialog from the original as well as completely omitting the allusion that Aerith fortunately avoided suffering certain traumas during her imprisonment.


In the jail cell, Tifa whispers to Cloud if there is a means to get out. Cloud can respond either with confidence or doubt, both of which lead to her quietly cheering on Cloud although the confident response spurs a more enthusiastic reply from Tifa who whispers her admiration for his bravery.
The entire jail cell segment is omitted from the Remake and there is no equivalent to the dialog in this segment to be found. While there are plenty of new moments and dialog where Tifa encourages Cloud, this is one of the few moments in the original where she does so with that in mind it is a removal of a positive scene.

As Cloud and Aerith talk and lightly flirt through the walls of their adjacent jail cells, Tifa overhears about the deal for a date. Immediately sitting up on the cot, her latent jealously shows itself as she interrupts the conversation to state her understanding of the connection between Cloud and Aerith. Aerith responds in shock that Tifa is in the cell with Cloud too and had overheard their conversation. Tifa sarcastically apologizes for butting into the conversation, still fuming over what she had heard.
The entire jail cell segment is omitted from the Remake and there is no equivalent to the dialog in this segment to be found. This scene acts as an inverse to the prior one so it can be considered a positive development as it removes a negative scene for Cloud and Tifa.

Getting her emotions under control, Tifa turns the conversation towards seeking information from Aerith regarding Ancients and the Promised Land. Aerith provides what answers she can but ultimately is unsure if there truly is such a place. Cloud brings the conversation to a close, remarking that they should all get some sleep.
The entire jail cell segment is omitted from the Remake, however the exposition concerning the Ancients and the Promised Land in this scene was moved to the new scene that takes place in Aerith's childhood room in Shinra HQ. Unlike in the original where only Tifa and Cloud were conversing with Aerith in this scene, Barret and Red XIII are also present now and active in the discussion in the Remake.

Cloud awakens to find the door to their cell door wide open, he wakes up Tifa and they both run out to inspect the corpse of the Shinra guard nearby. Cloud asks Tifa to get Aerith while he goes to help Barret and Red XIII.
The entire jail cell segment is omitted from the Remake and there is no equivalent to the dialog in this segment to be found.

Upon discovering the body of President Shinra slumped over his deck impaled by an all too familiar sword, Tifa and Cloud instantly recognize whose it is with Tifa asking questioningly if this means Sephiroth is alive. Cloud confirms her suspicions since he believes only Sephiroth is capable of wielding that blade. When a frightened Palmer darts out from hiding only to be caught and questioned by Cloud about what transpired, he mentions that Sephiroth does not want Shinra to have the Promised Land. This leads Tifa to question if that means the Promised Land truly exists and that Sephiroth is on their side. Cloud dashes those thoughts as he insists there is no good to be found concerning Sephiroth and his intentions.
The entirety of the original scene is omitted from the Remake as the whole sequence with President Shinra on the top floor of Shinra HQ is handled entirely differently. The party learning that Sephiroth is supposedly still alive is handled earlier in the Remake when they first find Jenova's body in Hojo's lab as Sephiroth makes his first appearance to the others aside from Cloud then.

After the party departs to get Aerith out of the building at Cloud's behest, Tifa chooses to hang back and wait for Cloud as the rest continue on. When Cloud meets up with her after Rufus' retreat, she inquires on what happened and Cloud informs her he wasn't able to finish him off and that things are gonna get complicated.
This scene plays out similarly in general but with some notable changes; as the party runs off as Cloud readies to take on Rufus, Tifa hangs back briefly exchanging one last glance with Cloud before she follows the rest of the party. Her choosing to remain behind is handled offscreen in the Remake and unlike the original where Cloud met up with her, Tifa makes her way back to the roof seemingly to witness the conclusion of the duel between Cloud and Rufus. Having witnessed Cloud fall after the platform was shot out from underneath him, Tifa races over and slides over the edge of the platform as she secures a firm grip on a beam extension and grasps Cloud's hand just as he was about to plummet to his death. Giving him reproving encouragement, Tifa says "You gotta be better than this...if you're gonna play the hero." with Cloud gratefully acknowledging Tifa's critique as he takes a firm grip on her arm.

Meeting back up with the rest of the party in the lobby of Shinra HQ, Tifa calls them over as they all climb aboard the display truck to follow Cloud in their escape from Midgar.
This scene plays out slightly differently in the Remake as Aerith, Barret and Red XIII find themselves surrounded by roughly a couple dozen Shinra troopers led by Heidegger. Cloud is the first to arrive on the scene riding the motorcycle as he proceeds to incapacitate the troopers with Tifa driving up soon after in the iconic display truck directing everyone to get in. Cloud finishes off the remaining troopers and together with the rest of the group following, they make their escape from Shinra HQ.

WOW!! That was such a great read!! Thanks for your efforts really.


That makes me realized that, while I'm quite pleased with what we got in part 1, I was taking from granted how well served we were like for real...that's a hell lot of good content/buildup for Cloti. LOVE IT!
 

Lazy Turtle

Lv. 1 Adventurer
I don't know if anybody has pointed this out already, but when in Chapter 3 Cloud tries to enter Tifa's room, he says "Don't be weird" in English. But in the Japanese audio his line begins with "今は/Ima wa", so he says something along the line of "Right now is not the time to enter her room." Meaning... later on, the right time might come. No, Cloud fully expects the right time for that to come. :mon:

I kinda enjoy the picture of teenage Cloud (for in his head he is still 16!) patiently waiting for private time with his soon-to-be girlfriend Tifa. *giggles*

Edit 1: Discovered something else: Cloud being jealous and protective of Tifa when he speaks to the Sector 7 item shop owner: "あんたには無理だ/ It's impossible for you (to start something with Tifa)".
Kyaahh, I love my second play through even more! :excited:

Edit 2: In one scene Tifa says in Japanese, that she might be stricter the next time teaching Cloud slum lessons (after I completed Chadley's report) and Cloud replies: "そうしてくれ/Please be/please do so."
I might have to collect those gems here. :D

To add, there is difference in Chapter 12 when Cloud leaves Wedge, Aerith and Tifa.

In the English version, Cloud says:
Wedge-listen to me. You stay here with them.

But in Japanese, he says:
ウェッジ、いいな。ティファの指示に従え。
Wedge-listen to me. Follow Tifa’s instructions.
 

Vortigern

Pro Adventurer
WOW!! That was such a great read!! Thanks for your efforts really.


That makes me realized that, while I'm quite pleased with what we got in part 1, I was taking from granted how well served we were like for real...that's a hell lot of good content/buildup for Cloti. LOVE IT!

And that is not even taking into account the numerous, numerous new scenes! That said, I'm tired after writing that first bit up so unsure when I'll get around to that. I may just approach things piecemeal and others may have already covered so might be a good chance for me to take a backseat on certain things.
 

Purple

Charmed
My favourite Cloti moment in the game was probably when he glitches out while escorting the kids with Aerith and sees a young Tifa, with her theme suddenly playing in the background

Some theorized it might be when she left for Mt Nibel but I don’t think so. Probably just one of those random flashbacks showing Tifa was always nice to him? (just like reactor 1)

Timing of that flashback is very important too
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
It does look extremely accurate to the source material. Cloud's hair looks quite static, though, so I do think it's still possible that it's just really good 2D art.

It's not. I follow that artist on Twitter. It's all 3D modeling, rigging the in-game assets in a program like Blender.

I also already posted that one a page or two ago under a spoiler tag :P
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
I don't know if anybody has pointed this out already, but when in Chapter 3 Cloud tries to enter Tifa's room, he says "Don't be weird" in English. But in the Japanese audio his line begins with "今は/Ima wa", so he says something along the line of "Right now is not the time to enter her room." Meaning... later on, the right time might come. No, Cloud fully expects the right time for that to come. :mon:

I kinda enjoy the picture of teenage Cloud (for in his head he is still 16!) patiently waiting for private time with his soon-to-be girlfriend Tifa. *giggles*

Edit 1: Discovered something else: Cloud being jealous and protective of Tifa when he speaks to the Sector 7 item shop owner: "あんたには無理だ/ It's impossible for you (to start something with Tifa)".
Kyaahh, I love my second play through even more! :excited:

Edit 2: In one scene Tifa says in Japanese, that she might be stricter the next time teaching Cloud slum lessons (after I completed Chadley's report) and Cloud replies: "そうしてくれ/Please be/please do so."
I might have to collect those gems here. :D

This is why I wish there was an option for subs that are a straight translation of the Japanese audio. I want to do a Japanese audio playthrough, but knowing the subtitles don't match up exactly is going to bug me.
 

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
And that is not even taking into account the numerous, numerous new scenes! That said, I'm tired after writing that first bit up so unsure when I'll get around to that. I may just approach things piecemeal and others may have already covered so might be a good chance for me to take a backseat on certain things.

I know it takes a lot of time, but I would LOVE to read your takes about the new scenes ?? :grin:
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
I pulled this from that long read. I am quoting a couple of people so, these are not my words but the owners. I do however, think that they are important to bring to the table in this discussion.


I find it very telling that to “prove” Clerith you first have to disprove Cloti. In order for Cloud to love Aerith, you have to prove he doesn’t love Tifa. I have never, ever seen a Clerith argument that wasn’t built on a foundation of attempting to disprove CloudxTifa.

And yet, for Cloti, you just have to let it be. He loves Tifa. End of.

There is absolutely no need to disprove he loved Aerith, because, well, there’s no evidence he ever did. For Cloti to work, you just have to follow the story. No suppositions, no hidden meanings, no alternate interpretations. It’s just *there*.

—Fairheartstrife

This point of view is interesting.

That’s the problem with the Highwind scenes. Some people assume that the existence of two versions automatically means that they are the opposite of one another completely. For clarity’s sake, the Low Affection scene does not say that Cloud and Tifa 1) *hate* or are disinterested in each other because they confessed love on the other scene, or 2) decided to be *only* friends because they wanted to be much more in the other version.

Yes, those are actual arguments I’ve read from the other side, and they are not true. The Low Affection scene being apathetic is a result of the lack of points you, as Cloud, failed to accumulate in order for Tifa to be comfortable enough to show that she wants your Buster Sword. It does not change the fact that she likes Cloud romantically and vice versa.

And about Cloud and Tifa not being showy and mushy all over: I don’t think people who argue that they aren’t a couple because of such a reason don’t necessarily know what love is in real life. They just expect that, from a video game, where everybody looks insanely gorgeous and everything is fantasy, love must be this magical, eternal force that is never touched by mistakes or sadness or hurt whatsoever.

They don’t have to have twisted ideas about love in real life to come up with such conclusions. They just have a problem with the Compilation’s approach.

—Unlucky

This point is almost never brought up and it is rather insightful for pro Tifa X Cloud ships, it puts a little bit of a Doylistic point of view I must admit. Which in that very scene Tifa says, " Words aren't the only thing that tell people what you are thinking"

Now this is a partial quote. The reason I am only quoting a partial of it, because I feel that it is the most important.

My point in all this is to say that I think he did love both women, but to different degrees. One woman he loved his entire life and desperately desired to be good enough for her, except for a short period when his memory was incomplete. The other he only knew during the period he couldn’t remember how he felt about the first woman. However, he did have a strong bond with her and they got along extremely well and had a kind of fun, flirty dynamic. But the first woman is the one he expresses deep, tender feelings for and the one that becomes his companion for the rest of his life.

—Knuxson

I couldn't have said this paragraph any better. I think this is an excellent point.

Edited to add. I am such a goof. I posted in the wrong forum.
 
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