Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

[Yumelinh]

[rant]

So, I went back and looked at the cess pool of replies in the old tweets that you guys were talking about. I know that this was brought up before but Why oh Why do they keep saying the Nojima says that Aerith and Cloud are lovers? I can't believe that they don't know from who's point of view that is. It is from Aerith's point of view not Nojima's.

I guess the High Wind Scene is optional now too.? Also, since when does appearing in the credits of any game make it that cannon? Did I miss that chapter in "How to ship a couple" book?

[/rant]

haha I did a similar rant here for the same reason ^^' so I understand your frustration.

It's not that they don't know, it's that they don't care. It's nitpicking information at best ( our part of the fandom does that too, I know a few myself, we seem just to be less loud I guess).

My problem with it is how much it tends to affect people's perception of Cloti as a valid ship/canon ship. Like I genuinely know people who ship them but don't think they're canon because they have encountered a few of these people around who threw them these nitpicked pieces of information that they couldn't counter-argue so they believed it. And that's why it sucks that a lot of important info is placed in complementary works because this is not something people can easily access for themselves ( especially if they're not active in the fandom like us), so they take what some people throw at them as the truth and that's many misconceptions are still going even up to these days.

 

[Graymouse]

haha I did a similar rant here for the same reason ^^' so I understand your frustration.

It's not that they don't know, it's that they don't care. It's nitpicking information at best ( our part of the fandom does that too, I know a few myself, we seem just to be less loud I guess).

My problem with it is how much it tends to affect people's perception of Cloti as a valid ship/canon ship. Like I genuinely know people who ship them but don't think they're canon because they have encountered a few of these people around who threw them these nitpicked pieces of information that they couldn't counter-argue so they believed it. And that's why it sucks that a lot of important info is placed in complementary works because this is not something people can easily access for themselves ( especially if they're not active in the fandom like us), so they take what some people throw at them as the truth and that's many misconceptions are still going even up to these days.

Yeah, I was looking at some of these Cloud X Aerith shippers on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265692611035172864

Talking about cherry picking. This is not the the entire scene. This so wrong!

This is!

So, not sure what they are trying to prove there. Anyways, are there such things as Anti Aeriths? or whatever?

Edited to put a longer video up.

 

[iamhorde]

It's not that they don't know, it's that they don't care. It's nitpicking information at best ( our part of the fandom does that too, I know a few myself, we seem just to be less loud I guess).

They have to nitpick information and shout the loudest maybe because deep down inside, or at least in FF7 Remake Chapter 14, they found out that

"...it's not real." - Aerith, FF7R

I felt like Aerith herself was shipping CloTi. Let's hope it stays that way.

 

[loozzer]

Yeah, I was looking at some of these Cloud X Aerith shippers on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265692611035172864

Talking about cherry picking. This is not the the entire scene. This so wrong!

This is!

Are there such things as Anti Aeriths? or whatever?

Edited to put a longer video up.

idk why everytime i respond it's to defend cleriths lol i swear i ship cloti.

in this case i don't think it's a big deal. they ship clerith so obviously they would only include the part about cloud and aerith. there's tons of cloti supporters who exclude aerith (not in a spiteful way but she's just not part of the the ship so why would they include her?)

and tbh idk who created that video (i'm assuming SE had a hand in it), but it does suggest that cloud and aerith are the hero and heroine. i'm aware that there's other official content that pushes tifa more as the heroine but in this specific video aerith shows up second and i would've assumed she was the heroine if i didn't know the game.

 

[Edley]

Aerith's the heroine of the story. Tifa is Cloud's heroine.

 

[Graymouse]

idk why everytime i respond it's to defend cleriths lol i swear i ship cloti.

in this case i don't think it's a big deal. they ship clerith so obviously they would only include the part about cloud and aerith. there's tons of cloti supporters who exclude aerith (not in a spiteful way but she's just not part of the the ship so why would they include her?)

and tbh idk who created that video (i'm assuming SE had a hand in it), but it does suggest that cloud and aerith are the hero and heroine. i'm aware that there's other official content that pushes tifa more as the heroine but in this specific video aerith shows up second and i would've assumed she was the heroine if i didn't know the game.

In this case, it could be seen as spiteful. If you read the tweet. I really need to stop reading the comments. That was the point that I was making. I know that Cloud X Tifa does the same so, I can agree with you on that.

What I can't get behind is of the whole order of what character shows up has a special meaning, a character is shown together, or if a character shows up or doesn't show up in the credits have a meaning. I never really understood that. This goes for both Cloud X Aerith, or Cloud X Tifa. To me these moments are not shipping moments. It is just SE showing the characters in the game and some iconic scene from the game. Nothing more, Nothing less. I am truly at a loss when people try to grasp at straws like that.

Edited to fix sentence structure and to make my paragraph more cohesive.

 

[Yumelinh]

Yeah, I was looking at some of these Cloud X Aerith shippers on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265692611035172864

Talking about cherry picking. This is not the the entire scene. This so wrong!

This is!

So, not sure what they are trying to prove there. Anyways, are there such things as Anti Aeriths? or whatever?

Edited to put a longer video up.

They not even wrong here tbh I mean is the heroine as well. They just didn't need to cut the rest of the team but well what can't be done lol

Btw this is such a great video @Graymouse thanks for bringing this up. I think I would scream if I was at this place and they showed up this.

 

[minami758]

@Graymouse Just don’t read Twitter comments. You’ll get angry every time, best to just ignore, tbh. Mute them, block, whatever you need to do.

In other news, I’m actually not insane that there’s a shitton of Cloud/Tifa content in the Remake, yeah? Like I can’t believe it, sometimes it still feels like a fever dream.

 

[loozzer]

What I can't get behind is of the whole order of what character shows up has a special meaning, a character is shown together, or if a character shows up or doesn't show up in the credits have a meaning. It is just SE showing the characters are in the game. Nothing more, Nothing less. I never really understood that. This goes for both Cloud X Aerith, or Cloud X Tifa. I am truly at a loss when people try to grasp at straws like that.

while i don't really read into the order of appearance or whatever too much, i think there is some logic behind analyzing that sort of thing. like i think most people would expect characters to be introduced in order of importance. on movie posters the bigger celeb name goes first (sometimes a really big name might go last). when you watch a tv show, the main character's actor gets credited first and then the 2nd most important character, etc. sometimes there are exceptions but you can pretty much expect that order of importance = order of appearance.

honestly i was a little wtf? with the ultimania cover because tifa is basically pushed to the edge of the cover like she's a side character or something. but i'm not too upset about it since it seems like she goes right after cloud in the actual book lol.

 

[Graymouse]

They not even wrong here tbh I mean is the heroine as well. They just didn't need to cut the rest of the team but well what can't be done lol

Btw this is such a great video @Graymouse thanks for bringing this up. I think I would scream if I was at this place and they showed up this.

Off Topic: You should go travel to Japan and go to the Skytree! It is a must see landmark. I have been there and it was an unforgettable experience.

 

[Yumelinh]

while i don't really read into the order of appearance or whatever too much, i think there is some logic behind analyzing that sort of thing. like i think most people would expect characters to be introduced in order of importance. on movie posters the bigger celeb name goes first (sometimes a really big name might go last). when you watch a tv show, the main character's actor gets credited first and then the 2nd most important character, etc. sometimes there are exceptions but you can pretty much expect that order of importance = order of appearance.

honestly i was a little wtf? with the ultimania cover because tifa is basically pushed to the edge of the cover like she's a side character or something. but i'm not too upset about it since it seems like she goes right after cloud in the actual book lol.

I get your point here ( a very good one btw). But It's because FFVII has a different structure from what you expected for even JRPGs that we shouldn't put too much weight on that bc both Aerith and Tifa are canonical heroines, so whichever appears first shouldn't really matter.

But you're right that characters are introduced for the order of importance as well, and that's why she's introduced first than Tifa here for example. Aerith's importance as a character is more prominent in the first part of the game while Tifa's times to shine is later on in the game. So it's really not surprising that they're advertising things as they are.

Also, I personally always think that people tend to associate FFVII with Aerith a lot more than even Cloud sometimes lol. she's a very iconic character, so there's that, too

That doesn't mean Tifa isn't loved or less important. Our girl is loved, too. It's just that there's too many characters in this damn game ( I love them all thooo)

 

[Graymouse]

while i don't really read into the order of appearance or whatever too much, i think there is some logic behind analyzing that sort of thing. like i think most people would expect characters to be introduced in order of importance. on movie posters the bigger celeb name goes first (sometimes a really big name might go last). when you watch a tv show, the main character's actor gets credited first and then the 2nd most important character, etc. sometimes there are exceptions but you can pretty much expect that order of importance = order of appearance.

honestly i was a little wtf? with the ultimania cover because tifa is basically pushed to the edge of the cover like she's a side character or something. but i'm not too upset about it since it seems like she goes right after cloud in the actual book lol.

Ah, I get that. I guess what I am trying to say is that I can understand what you are saying. I know that Aerith is an important character to overall story arc but that doesn't necessary mean that the order of appearance means that particular characters are a couple? In which most people who care about those things are using that as basis to their support of their particular Ship, whomever it may be.

So, what you are saying is that since Tifa was fouth in appearance that she is like a side character to the story. What does that say about poor Red XIII? As fans of the OG we know this isn't true. This is why I think that the order of appearance doesn't hold as much weight in the grand scheme of things like people would like it to. This is really dangerous to be honest because it creates misconceptions of the characters and probably is part of the fuel that started this whole LTD from the conception back in '97.

Edited to add: When I used "you" I wasn't meaning you in particular. Sorry if it felt that way.

 

[Yumelinh]

@Graymouse Just don’t read Twitter comments. You’ll get angry every time, best to just ignore, tbh. Mute them, block, whatever you need to do.

In other news, I’m actually not insane that there’s a shitton of Cloud/Tifa content in the Remake, yeah? Like I can’t believe it, sometimes it still feels like a fever dream.

Me too! Maybe because I was expecting nothing and was fairly ok with it that when we got this game full of Cloti goodness I was so shocked!!! If we are being fed like right in Midgar part, where we supposed to stay low, can you imagine all the new goodness from the next parts?? I don't even want to get my hopes ups

Off Topic: You should go travel to Japan and go to the Skytree! It is a must see landmark. I have been there and it was an unforgettable experience.

That's one of my dream countries to travel to! I was actually gonna travel to Korea and Japan at the beginning of next year but due to COVID these plans have been paused until further notice, unfortunately. But I'll definitely add this place in my must-see list!!!

 

[Graymouse]

honestly i was a little wtf? with the ultimania cover because tifa is basically pushed to the edge of the cover like she's a side character or something. but i'm not too upset about it since it seems like she goes right after cloud in the actual book lol.

I know right! I am just waiting for it to come out in English, in what 5 years time. I have most ultmainia's sitting on my shelf. I must have the complete set!

 

[Yumelinh]

I know right! I am just waiting for it to come out in English, in what 5 years time. I have most ultmainia's sitting on my shelf. I must have the complete set!

What will come out first? The ultimania in English or Remake next part???

(prob the ultimania...;-; )

 

[Yumelinh]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266052825236164608

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265436889303179271

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265288040940883970

 

[Graymouse]

I saw the last tweet yesterday. I forgot to add it to my Collage of tweets.

I love that line from the HW scene.

"But that's all right. As long as I'm with you... As long as you're by my side... I won't give up even if I'm scared."

Is that said, on both the High Affection and the Low Affection scene? I can't remember for the life of me.

High Wind Scene optional....... (I know I am being pity.)

Edited to add. It is on both.

These two are Bliss!

 

[iamhorde]

I get your point here ( a very good one btw). But It's because FFVII has a different structure from what you expected for even JRPGs that we shouldn't put too much weight on that bc both Aerith and Tifa are canonical heroines, so whichever appears first shouldn't really matter.

Agreed and I think the sequence is just different on different mediums. In the Inside Final Fantasy 7 Remake documentary, Tifa is announced by Nojima himself as the heroine and is introduced right after Cloud.

(view the 6:10 mark)

That doesn't mean Tifa isn't loved or less important. Our girl is loved, too. It's just that there's too many characters in this damn game ( I love them all thooo)

Absolutely right. The E3 2019 Tifa Reveal trailer proves that. Watch at the 2:10 mark, the crowd went wild.

Shipping lens aside, FF7 is primarily an action JRPG, not everyone may be as invested in the love story but a lot of neutral players are having a blast with Tifa and her gameplay. Some even want her on Tekken and Smash Bros. Our girl is loved indeed.

 

[loozzer]

So, what you are saying is that since Tifa was fouth in appearance that she is like a side character to the story. What does that say about poor Red XIII? As fans of the OG we know this isn't true. This is why I think that the order of appearance doesn't hold as much weight in the grand scheme of things like people would like it to. This is really dangerous to be honest because it creates misconceptions of the characters and probably is part of the fuel that started this whole LTD from the conception back in '97.

Edited to add: When I used "you" I wasn't meaning you in particular. Sorry if it felt that way.

i think the way that they edited the video would lead people who aren't familiar with the game to assume that tifa is the "2nd lead" female character, but not a side character. but there's also lots of content out there which introduces tifa before aerith so it's not like they're consistent with it haha.

yea i also think that part of the reason why the LTD exists is because of the marketing and two heroines thing (which i do agree with, the game makes it pretty clear that they're equally important). but i don't like it because it creates a lot of fan wars.

when you have two heroines who are co-leads of a show or movie it's usually very obvious who their respective love interests are. and the co-leads usually never get caught up in a love triangle where they are fighting over the same person. in a traditional love triangle it's pretty obvious who the odd guy out is (there's always that one character who is important but just isn't as important as the other two).

of course sometimes shows subvert expectations and the 2nd lead wins the love triangle (dawsons creek for example) but that's a different subject altogether because i think tifa and aerith are equally as important. if SE could just market one of the girls as the "sole" heroine we would get the obvious answer to the LTD pretty quick. (but then we would all just start arguing about whether or not SE is subverting expectations with the love triangle lol). anyways just my thoughts and i think i've gone off topic with all this LTD rambling

 

[Graymouse]

Agreed and I think the sequence is just different on different mediums. In the Inside Final Fantasy 7 Remake documentary, Tifa is announced by Nojima himself as the heroine and is introduced right after Cloud.

(view the 6:10 mark)




Absolutely right. The E3 2019 Tifa Reveal trailer proves that. Watch at the 2:10 mark, the crowd went wild.

Shipping lens aside, FF7 is primarily an action JRPG, not everyone may be as invested in the love story but a lot of neutral players are having a blast with Tifa and her gameplay. Some even want her on Tekken and Smash Bros. Our girl is loved indeed.

Tifa needs to be in Tekken for sure. It would make sense to have her in Smash as well, being that Cloud is in there already. Like you said, she is a total blast to play in the Remake. If you set everything up right, she would dominate the enemy before they even have a chance. I hope that they don't tone her back in future installments. She is a beast in the part one for sure!

i think the way that they edited the video would lead people who aren't familiar with the game to assume that tifa is the "2nd lead" female character, but not a side character. but there's also lots of content out there which introduces tifa before aerith so it's not like they're consistent with it haha.

yea i also think that part of the reason why the LTD exists is because of the marketing and two heroines thing (which i do agree with, the game makes it pretty clear that they're equally important). but i don't like it because it creates a lot of fan wars.

when you have two heroines who are co-leads of a show or movie it's usually very obvious who their respective love interests are. and the co-leads usually never get caught up in a love triangle where they are fighting over the same person. in a traditional love triangle it's pretty obvious who the odd guy out is (there's always that one character who is important but just isn't as important as the other two).

of course sometimes shows subvert expectations and the 2nd lead wins the love triangle (dawsons creek for example) but that's a different subject altogether because i think tifa and aerith are equally as important. if SE could just market one of the girls as the "sole" heroine we would get the obvious answer to the LTD pretty quick. (but then we would all just start arguing about whether or not SE is subverting expectations with the love triangle lol). anyways just my thoughts and i think i've gone off topic with all this LTD rambling

I agree with what you said. I don't have much more to add to this, except that I am not so sure that ending the LTD will be the end of it. Unfortunately one side would "lose" and be resentful. That goes without saying for both sides of the triangle. It is much too profitable for SE to keep it going and feed into the fandoms. It sad but true and it is a painful reality on both sides.

Of course we all have our biases on who the best girl is.

 

[Master Bates]

Maybe the order of appearance is just that---the order at which the characters appear. Although Aerith was technically the first to appear, but given that Cloud is our main focus character naturally he'd get introduced first. Then Aerith. Then Barret. And then Tifa (4th to appear). So yeah, I don't think there should be any fuss about that. So a Clerith shipper decided to cut the video short to show only Cloud and Aerith. So what? Any reasonable and neutral fan of the game can clearly see there was more to the cut video. Only shippers of the same boat would arrive to the same conclusion as that Clerith shipper did. But then again, people who are deep in their ship will only see what they want to see. It's useless.

I did find another pink object in her room that I thought was XX but it turned out to be pink socks View attachment 6345?

Those look like a pair of socks for a cute pair of feet.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265795199155855360

Waaaahhhh! My Rufus-Tifa dream ship scenario, only in reverse. LMAO

 

[Graymouse]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264945201421914113

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264943523884945408

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263946867727052806

Last three for the evening.

 

[Eerie]

Yeah this video actually made me groan, because Tifa was put 4th - I'm aware it's to keep the guy-girl-guy-girl balance but MEH. That irritates me because it gives false conceptions, since it's a BIG advertisement. It does look like Tifa is less important than Barret.

Oh yeah, I wanted to talk about the dub there: I do find the EN version less cloti in general. Because I find Cloud so cold towards Tifa, unlike the JP/FR versions :/ The first guy I watched played in FR, so I didn't notice, but I saw cloti complaining in reddit and I thought "ha, maybe that's going a bit far?" but like... I can see why now that I've watched Materwelonz play? Some cloti scenes are totally missed because of that (btw I hadn't seen that, but Materwelonz actually got her copy given to her by SE, so they've probably watched her playthrough since she went blind, it must have been interesting data for them).

So yeah I do feel like it's valid to complain about how the EN changes the *tone* of some scenes. That "goodnight, Tifa" is a perfect example, when you can hear the longing in both FR and JP, in EN it's "well ciao!"

 

[Final_Heaven]

Yeah this video actually made me groan, because Tifa was put 4th - I'm aware it's to keep the guy-girl-guy-girl balance but MEH. That irritates me because it gives false conceptions, since it's a BIG advertisement. It does look like Tifa is less important than Barret.

Oh yeah, I wanted to talk about the dub there: I do find the EN version less cloti in general. Because I find Cloud so cold towards Tifa, unlike the JP/FR versions :/ The first guy I watched played in FR, so I didn't notice, but I saw cloti complaining in reddit and I thought "ha, maybe that's going a bit far?" but like... I can see why now that I've watched Materwelonz play? Some cloti scenes are totally missed because of that (btw I hadn't seen that, but Materwelonz actually got her copy given to her by SE, so they've probably watched her playthrough since she went blind, it must have been interesting data for them).

So yeah I do feel like it's valid to complain about how the EN changes the *tone* of some scenes. That "goodnight, Tifa" is a perfect example, when you can hear the longing in both FR and JP, in EN it's "well ciao!"

Idk, I totally saw the longing there although it was more the facial animation that sold it to me.

 

[Eerie]

I think people will pay less attention to facial animation than to dubbing though. It’s sometimes hard to tell what a character is feeling with just facial animation, when a good dub will be easier to get.