Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

[Final_Heaven]

@Graymouse I think I honestly missed the more subtle cues about Tifa's affections for him because I wasn't really paying attention, and I didn't really understand her character yet. That she was shy and stuff. I got a hint of it only during the train roll scene when they both couldn't hold each other's gazes and quickly looked away.

With Cloud it was a bit more obvious (to me) because after Jessie questioned him he remembers that scene with her as a young girl, and then when he gets back to Sector 7, and Tifa brings him to his apartment, when she said she talked to the landlady about him, he actually said なんて? Like, "What did you tell her?" But he sounded so expectant, wanting to know how Tifa introduced him to Marle. I thought it was super cute. Also he was acting jealous with the item store guy.

And then came the flirting, and all those physical touches. It was just a little more obvious from Cloud.

It wasn't until I sat and thought about it for a while or rewatched scenes that I realised it and how much of it there was from Tifa as well. You guys have probably seen me discovering them interaction by interaction in the LTD.

I can see it. Remake! Tifa gives off this type of kind attitude that makes you sure unsure if she's being flirty with Cloud or being nice to him because they're besties. The English version upped the jealous aspect of Tifa though so it was made more obvious that yes, Tifa likes him like that.

 

[insanehobbit]

I definitely agree that Tifa's just as interested in Cloud in part one of the Remake. I guess what I was trying to say is that Cloud's feelings are more obvious. He has the flirting, the explicit jealousy and also is just constantly screaming her name, whereas Tifa is a lot more reserved by nature. Especially since that while Cloud is Tifa's only real "suitor" in the game (Johnny's there too, but his interest is obviously played as a joke), you also have Jessie and Aerith for Cloud, who are both much more explicit about their romantic interest. Even when Tifa is asking him out on a date, she does it in the most hilariously roundabout way possible. Let's dress up and go out on the town and maybe match? Like, sweetie, I think there's a word for that, but it's such a Tifa thing to do.

Anyway, I'm loving your inputs @insanehobbit, can I ask your thoughts about this scene? too if you want).

Aww, thank you! And thank you for asking. Ask me again in an hour, and my answer may change (we just got so much good stuff in the Remake), but this might be may favorite scene of theirs as well. I had totally forgotten that in the OG, Tifa also breaks from the group and waits for Cloud at the Shinra building, but it felt like such a random moment. There wasn't any meaningful dialogue or anything between them. I wonder if something was cut out or something or they just needed them to be together to drive the getaway vehicles?

Regardless, the version we got in the Remake perfectly encapsulates their dynamic in about 30 seconds. There's that brief scene before the fight, where Tifa agrees to leave with the rest of the group, but also lingers for a moment. Not only does she trust that he can handle himself physically in the battle, but she also knows that emotionally, this is a fight that he must face alone. That being said, she still worries about him, and so she stays, just in case.

At this point in the Remake, we have "The Promise" set up as something very important, but we're nearing the end of the game, and it has yet to be resolved. Of course, Cloud does "save" Tifa countless times throughout the game, but we never really get that big hero moment it seems to suggest where his presence is the difference between life or death. Cut to Chapter 17, and we finally do have a moment of life or death, but it's our "hero" who needs to be saved and the "damsel" who does the saving. The Promise is thus subverted and resolved in Part 1, but it also foreshadows how it will play out over the entire series. Tifa again is the one who will save Cloud in the Lifestream. (And just as was the case at the Shinra building, she will choose Cloud over the rest of the group before it happens.)

This is to say nothing of the way it was rendered, with the close-ups of their faces, their hands and Tifa's theme playing in the background. All in all, it's such a beautifully layered scene. We don't get many of these smaller, non-plot related character moments late into the game, so that this made its way in is quite meaningful, I think.

 

[Graymouse]

The thing is, I think that while Cloud’s feelings are easy to see by the player, Cloud himself doesn’t understand his own feelings for Tifa. Yes he’s transparent, but he’s really messed up and thinking about it really puts him in a dangerous position, as it would open too much his memories - and it’s something Jenovah cannot allow. So while Cloud is the easiest to see through, he is not aware of ehat those feelings are. They are still a locked, tender memory.

On the other hand, Tifa’s feelings can be harder to decipher but there are several hints in game that show that she too, loves him:
- she accepts the flower, something we learn that she normally doesn’t do with flirting guys
- she is very happy to receive the beautiful compliment
- she invites Cloud to a date
- she gets a bit jealous when Aerith catch Cloud’s arm
- she is by his bedside in Aerith’s room
- Aerith tells her to follow her heart and next thing we know she is by Cloud’s side

And those are only very visible hints. There are all the banter and flirty moments she has with Cloud, and we know she doesn’t flirt normally. There are all those touchy moments she has with him, she doesn’t reject Cloud’s touches either, initiates them too. So knowing her history and seeing how she acts with Cloud, it’s crystal clear that she has feelings for him, it’s not only worry for what’s going on with him.

What I find interesting in all this, is that even with Cloud so messed up in his head at the present moment, his feelings for Tifa breaks through all the fake Soldier persona that Cloud puts up. His true feelings for Tifa shines through all the internal BS that is going on in Cloud's head right now. Looking at the interactions with each other in my opinion he naturally gravitates towards her. I guess what I am trying to say is that everything about them is very natural, He subconsciously wants to be protect her and be by her side at all times. I would be willing to guess it is the same way for Tifa.

[gushing ship]That is probably one of the reasons that I love this pairing so well. Their pairing is extremely grounded. If I do say so myself, I think Cloud X Tifa pairing is one of the best FF series because of how their relationship is. I love it! [/gushing ship]

 

[minami758]

The Shinra Tower scene is my favorite too. Ugh, it's just so good and so them. And I love that it happened so late in the game, because by that time they have so many other things to deal with and the focus could've been anywhere else, but SE was like, "buuuut we're gonna squeeze in some Cloud/Tifa goodness first."

Even when Tifa is asking him out on a date, she does it in the most hilariously roundabout way possible. Let's dress up and go out on the town and maybe match? Like, sweetie, I think there's a word for that, but it's such a Tifa thing to do.

Writing it out like this does make that scene so much funnier and cuter from an audience perspective. Like, they were gonna dress in couple clothing (which is such a huge thing in Asian countries) and hit the town. And Cloud very readily accepted and was even looking forward to it. Even afterward, when Tifa was saying they should go back to the bar, Cloud is all, "but I don't wanna go back yet I wanna spend more time with youuuu."

Speaking of that scene, I can't remember if it was discussed here before, but I kind of got the feeling that Cloud was expecting some action, albeit maybe not completely aware of it himself.

That close-up of Tifa in the beginning and Cloud's moan, lol (it's also present in the English). And the fact that her bringing up the village catches him off-guard. He was lost in her eyes there, for sure.

 

[Cat on Mars]

I'm going to talk about Tifa's scar because I've given it a lot of thought for pretty obvious reasons.

The real question is this, "Why doesn't Tifa have a scar across her chest, or stomach after being sliced by Sephiroth. I mean she was critically injured, there should be a scar. (Honestly I don't think that would detract away from Tifa's looks if there was) Although, we never seen Tifa topless in official artwork, so maybe there is a scar across her chest. She just wears her white top to cover it up.

Maybe I will commission @Cat on Mars to draw a picture of Tifa showing that.

You know where I am, hit my PMs if you're interested.

When I played the OG, I pictured Tifa's scar like a thin, white line across ther chest since Masamune is supposed to be that sharp. Some people still believe Tifa has a scar and I like the idea because it makes her past feel more real. I don't think it would retract from her looks at all but it would make her more self-conscious about her body. Not because a scar is unsightly, but because that scar would elicit questions she doesn't want to answer and that scar would be a visual representation of her vulnerability, her insecurities and her recklessness at the same time.
The reason I like it is because I always believed that a scene when she bares her chest and shyly shows her scar with all that attached meaning would be powerful. Tifa showing all that vulnerability to someone would be tender and beautiful. I even could hear Cloud gasping at the scar, just before buring his face between her boobs like he's always wanted. I'm a true romantic, I know.

But this is Final Fantasy. Zangan used materia to heal Tifa, and materia seems to prevent scarring somehow. Compare and contrast with Zack, who never used materia or even potions to heal his cheek. That's why Zack has a scar and Tifa doesn't (the real reason is because character design, but I'm trying to provide an in-universe answer).

For Tifa’s scar, isn’t it stated that she has it in her back? I think I read that recently, in her profile or something (should be here on the website).

I remember that line but I can't find where did it come from now.

Anyway, I want more Marle somehow in Part 2!!

I love Marle, she's like the cool aunt (or grandma, whatever) Tifa deserved and never had in the OG. Why are families so small in FFVII?

The life lessons are hilarious to me because I really see the 16 years old Cloud desperately trying to act like an adult.

His description of what drink he should have sounds exactly like something a teenage boy who hasn't even tasted beer would say to sound cool. I didn't need more than that to understand what the writers were trying to convey.

 

[odekopeko]

Good to see you here @Cat on Mars
For some reason I really missed seeing you.

Speaking of that scene, I can't remember if it was discussed here before, but I kind of got the feeling that Cloud was expecting some action, albeit maybe not completely aware of it himself.

Not sure if it was mentioned here, but I definitely remember mentioning in the LTD. Boy wasn't aware of it, but there was definitely some sexual tension there, and he was so nervous just with her walking toward him. I love that he doesn't back away like he did with other women though. And the title in English, "Alone At Last", makes it seem like everyone was in his way before he could finally spend some quality time alone with Tifa. (Channelling Corneo) Ho-hee~!

Speaking of ho-hee! This is probably when they're in the sewers when Aerith copies Don Corneo. Cloud gets curious.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274532962629857280

Aerith: Ho-hee!
Tifa: Aerith, that was so cute!
Cloud: What are they up to?
Aerith: Hey, Tifa. Ho-hee!
Tifa: Um...you want me [to do it]?
Aerith: Please!
Tifa: O-okay then...Ho-hee!
Aerith: Tifa, that was soooo cute!
Cloud: (sound of arrow striking his heart) Urrrgh!
Aerith: What's wrong?
Cloud: N- Nothing...

 

[Cat on Mars]

Good to see you here @Cat on Mars
For some reason I really missed seeing you.

Shitposting is hard work. My typos, misspellings and bad grammar make all my posts special ❤

Also, I'm to TLSF what Deadpool is to Marvel.

Case in point.

 

[Graymouse]

The Shinra Tower scene is my favorite too. Ugh, it's just so good and so them. And I love that it happened so late in the game, because by that time they have so many other things to deal with and the focus could've been anywhere else, but SE was like, "buuuut we're gonna squeeze in some Cloud/Tifa goodness first."



Writing it out like this does make that scene so much funnier and cuter from an audience perspective. Like, they were gonna dress in couple clothing (which is such a huge thing in Asian countries) and hit the town. And Cloud very readily accepted and was even looking forward to it. Even afterward, when Tifa was saying they should go back to the bar, Cloud is all, "but I don't wanna go back yet I wanna spend more time with youuuu."

Speaking of that scene, I can't remember if it was discussed here before, but I kind of got the feeling that Cloud was expecting some action, albeit maybe not completely aware of it himself.

That close-up of Tifa in the beginning and Cloud's moan, lol (it's also present in the English). And the fact that her bringing up the village catches him off-guard. He was lost in her eyes there, for sure.

I watched that "alone at last" scene in English and Japanese, about a million times now it seems. I really love Tifa's mannerism when asking Cloud on a date. The way she ran up to Cloud and the way her hands are. It is too cute.

Even towards the end when Tifa suggested to go back to the bar, Cloud seemed like he wanted to stay alone with her for a bit longer. He even commented on that by asking Tifa if she needed to take a break. This is kinda annoying to me. Tifa my girl you need to read the room better. Shesh! When a man asks you, especially if it is Cloud, if you need to take a break. By GOD! You take a freaking break!! Sometimes her personality drives me crazy. but than again, it is what makes her so relatable for the most part.

 

[Cat on Mars]

I just love how oblivious she is, it makes for great comedy. Cloud is equally oblivious so it's a riot. And frustrating. Still funny, at least in the Remake. I'm going to enjoy how they don't notice their mutual feelings while they use any opportunity to grope each other. They aren't fooling anyone but themselves.

 

[insanehobbit]

They are both so hilariously dense. Like I don't know what the cultural norms are Midgar, but if any other girl had asked a guy to stop by her room later to "change the filter," I don't think the filter is going to get changed. Even Marle seems to insinuate that something else must have happened while they were up there. Alas.

 

[iamhorde]

It's really interesting to hear everyone's initial thoughts of who was more interested with who. In my initial play through with the English VO, I did not feel any sign of Cloud's interest simply through VO delivery. Sure, based on script alone I could slowly tell that Cloud was a little kinder towards Tifa and as they spent more time together, all those touching definitely convinced me that Cloud is way more into Tifa than he's letting on and definitely more telling than the OG.

@minami758's video in Japanese got me replaying the chapter in Japanese VO and while I don't very much understand Japanese, Cloud's tone of voice definitely sounds a lot gentler towards Tifa and certainly more affectionate.

Comparing the same scene where Tifa walks over to Cloud and he "moans", when I first heard the English VO, I heard it as a "sigh". Nothing against the English VO, I thought Britt Baron and Cody did a brilliant job but English Cloud does seem a little more annoyed and cold.

There were discussions earlier on how Cloud seem to be quite happy at Sector 7 and even planned to stay a little longer, got me thinking that the Chapter Title, "Home Sweet Slum" isn't just a reference to Avalanche / Tifa's home, but perhaps for that few peaceful days, Cloud did feel like it was Home Sweet Slum indeed.

Many people think that the chapter 3 side quests are some of the most boring, but I thought it was FF7's version of a slice-of-life. We basically got a glimpse of how daily life for Cloud and Tifa could be - changing filters, finding kittens, pest control, some time alone and a drink at the bar after.

 

[Eerie]

Speaking of matching outfits, their dresses kinda match lol. Also their outfits in AC:C

I wanted yo add something regarding what has been said but I forgot for now I’ll be back

 

[Final_Heaven]

It's really interesting to hear everyone's initial thoughts of who was more interested with who. In my initial play through with the English VO, I did not feel any sign of Cloud's interest simply through VO delivery. Sure, based on script alone I could slowly tell that Cloud was a little kinder towards Tifa and as they spent more time together, all those touching definitely convinced me that Cloud is way more into Tifa than he's letting on and definitely more telling than the OG.

@minami758's video in Japanese got me replaying the chapter in Japanese VO and while I don't very much understand Japanese, Cloud's tone of voice definitely sounds a lot gentler towards Tifa and certainly more affectionate.

Comparing the same scene where Tifa walks over to Cloud and he "moans", when I first heard the English VO, I heard it as a "sigh". Nothing against the English VO, I thought Britt Baron and Cody did a brilliant job but English Cloud does seem a little more annoyed and cold.

There were discussions earlier on how Cloud seem to be quite happy at Sector 7 and even planned to stay a little longer, got me thinking that the Chapter Title, "Home Sweet Slum" isn't just a reference to Avalanche / Tifa's home, but perhaps for that few peaceful days, Cloud did feel like it was Home Sweet Slum indeed.

Many people think that the chapter 3 side quests are some of the most boring, but I thought it was FF7's version of a slice-of-life. We basically got a glimpse of how daily life for Cloud and Tifa could be - changing filters, finding kittens, pest control, some time alone and a drink at the bar after.

It's too open-mouthed for it to be a sigh.

A sigh would sound lower and more like a grumble. This is more like a moan and it was so weirdly-placed and sexual that I wasn't sure what the hell Cloud was thinking here.

Like, am I supposed to think that Cloud was getting ready for Tifa to kiss him? Because that's what it sounded like.

But yes, I imagine that the Chapter 3 sidequests would be something like what domestic life would be for the two of them.

 

[Eerie]

https://thelifestream.net/lifestrea...518-of-the-final-fantasy-vii-ultimania-omega/

Found the page where her scar is described, @Cat on Mars although it is early material so not sure if it’s supposed to apply anymore.

For the way Cloud speaks to Tifa, I’ve already said it, but I find the EN version to be less gentle than the JP and FR one. It’s a wonder why they decided to go that route in the international version when it’s clearly not the case in other languages. I mean, it’s heavily oozing through Cloud’s speech mannerism that Tifa is special and that he treats her differently than the others. Why would he speak to her the same way he speaks to other characters in English only is weird to me.

Speaking of Cloud, again, when Alone at last starts, it’s really interesting because you see Tifa from Cloud’s eyes - it’s by the way not the only time this happens. And dang if Tifa isn’t gorgeous there. There is definitely some UST there that Tifa has to resolve or else it would have escalated lol.

 

[Purple]

Comparing the same scene where Tifa walks over to Cloud and he "moans", when I first heard the English VO, I heard it as a "sigh". Nothing against the English VO, I thought Britt Baron and Cody did a brilliant job but English Cloud does seem a little more annoyed and cold.

I heard a moan in English too. A sigh would sound more exasperated. But Cody sounded turned on in that scene if I’m being honest. Lmao

 

[iamhorde]

A sigh would sound lower and more like a grumble. This is more like a moan and it was so weirdly-placed and sexual that I wasn't sure what the hell Cloud was thinking here.

Like, am I supposed to think that Cloud was getting ready for Tifa to kiss him? Because that's what it sounded like.

I heard a moan in English too. A sigh would sound more exasperated. But Cody sounded turned on in that scene if I’m being honest. Lmao

I’ve never been happier to be proven wrong. I guess you could say that Tifa took his breath away.

 

[Celesta]

Cloud was ~thirsty~ I mean, they both are/were. It’s telling that the dress that Tifa prefers is the most mature and revealing; of course she wants Cloud whom she fancies and hasn’t seen in 7 years to see her as a woman with a capital W.

The Alone at Last Segment almost made me question what kind of game I was playing for a minute, lol. The way she approaches Cloud, his reaction and her inviting him to suggest what kind of clothing she should wear was reminiscent of what one may experience in one of those virtual girl friend simulator games. Not sure if that was the intention in part to add some levity. Not that I’m trying to diminish the interaction, it was really sweet in general.

 

[Yumelinh]

Thanks for the answer @insanehobbit! The Shinra Tower scene is really "top-notch" Cloti content and really encapsulates their dynamic as nothing else could. I also love how this is when Tifa uses the "Hero" word with Cloud, but in a different context from both Aerith and Jessie, as she uses it in a more supportive way and is the one playing the "hero" there.

Plus, this is the last 'pure' ship moment in the game, if I'm not mistaken.

---

Look at this angle from the Train roll scene...was this necessary, SE? (yes!)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274628601225179136

Edit: typos and everything else lol

 

[Eerie]

I'm realising the mocap actors must have played this scene (the train roll), and I'm like "I'm sorry, it must have been embarrassing" LOL (but thank you for your hard work! We get such NGH scenes).

 

[JT77fp]

Sorry to jump back to yesterday's posts. @Yumelinh asked:

Anyway, I'm loving your inputs @insanehobbit, can I ask your thoughts about this scene? (@JT77fp you too if you want).

I couldn't let this go unanswered because I love that scene too. We've all talked about how Cloud is more protective of Tifa in Remake. I mean, he's pretty much based himself two paces behind Tifa, ready to catch/pull/jump to her rescue since things keep falling on her. So I really enjoyed seeing her repay the favour, and for him to accept her help. That little chide about being a hero, the eye contact and the hand clasp in reply established their relationship as that of equals - in one fell swoop (literally!).

We all muse about who loves whom. But in the remake, which covers maybe 20% of the OG, nobody really loves anyone in THAT way yet. So establishing CxT as a relationship of equals, where they can both rely on the other, is a good start to a healthy relationship. It's also a more modern and in-depth take on subverting the traditional hero vs damsel archetypes. What I mean is that instead of surprising the audience with the damsel saving the hero as the OG did with the lifestream event, we see them from the start in this egalitarian manner.

With all the emotion that can be conveyed with modern graphics and VA, it is especially important to see this relationship developing in a credible way. Otherwise, if Cloud wasn't so responsive to Tifa, and if she didn't reciprocate with her own actions and affection, the audience will not believe Tifa when she breaks down in sorrow and declares that she "only cares about Cloud". It will be dismissed as melodrama. These little scenes of them helping each other - and reciprocating - build credibility with the audience that these two could actually be in love and make such huge commitments to each other later down the track.

 

[Stiggie]

I know this is mostly a side effect from game mechanics, but I've really noticed this quality of Tifa and Cloud being an egalitarian pair from the combat gameplay. Aerith is a caster/ranged character, which is often pointed out in cutscenes, but it's really clear in ingame footage as well. I don't often use Aerith, but I've noticed a lot of time when watching other players use Aerith, that it's often Aerith by herself at a distance, with Cloud and Tifa together, almost synchronized, attack the enemy together.

I know this is probably mostly accidental (unlike the scene with the sahuagin where Tifa and Cloud fight back to back), but I just love how natural these two look fighting as a couple.

 

[odekopeko]

Look at this angle from the Train roll scene...was this necessary, SE? (yes!)

I'm guilty of thirst tweets on this scene myself. Cause Tifa thighs straddling Cloud's right leg gave me life. Sorry not sorry.

 

[Yumelinh]

Sorry to jump back to yesterday's posts. @Yumelinh asked:
I couldn't let this go unanswered because I love that scene too. We've all talked about how Cloud is more protective of Tifa in Remake. I mean, he's pretty much based himself two paces behind Tifa, ready to catch/pull/jump to her rescue since things keep falling on her. So I really enjoyed seeing her repay the favour, and for him to accept her help. That little chide about being a hero, the eye contact and the hand clasp in reply established their relationship as that of equals - in one fell swoop (literally!).

We all muse about who loves whom. But in the remake, which covers maybe 20% of the OG, nobody really loves anyone in THAT way yet. So establishing CxT as a relationship of equals, where they can both rely on the other, is a good start to a healthy relationship. It's also a more modern and in-depth take on subverting the traditional hero vs damsel archetypes. What I mean is that instead of surprising the audience with the damsel saving the hero as the OG did with the lifestream event, we see them from the start in this egalitarian manner.

With all the emotion that can be conveyed with modern graphics and VA, it is especially important to see this relationship developing in a credible way. Otherwise, if Cloud wasn't so responsive to Tifa, and if she didn't reciprocate with her own actions and affection, the audience will not believe Tifa when she breaks down in sorrow and declares that she "only cares about Cloud". It will be dismissed as melodrama. These little scenes of them helping each other - and reciprocating - build credibility with the audience that these two could actually be in love and make such huge commitments to each other later down the track.

Thanks for the answer This was so extremely well put! I agree with everything, but especially the bolded part.

Part 1 was all about 'build-up/developing' relationships, so seeing the relationship between Cloud and Tifa being portrayed on such an equal ground is so satisfying. At the end of this first game, they trust each other as friends/allies and are extremely comfortable with each other (plus the romantic tension lol), and to know that this is not even the part where their relationship shines in OG really gets me excited about what's to come.

A lot of hardships await them in future installments. A lot can happen and they may even grow a little apart as their doubts about their past increase. But now, unlike OG, we have such a great foundation established from the very beginning that, when the moment comes when their feelings are revealed, it will not be so surprising, but more like a culmination of everything they have experienced since the moment that they made that promise at the water tower in Nibelheim.

 

[Yumelinh]

More goodies from twitter!!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274681628506247168

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274567918865354758

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274578035954429953

 

[odekopeko]

know this is probably mostly accidental (unlike the scene with the sahuagin where Tifa and Cloud fight back to back), but I just love how natural these two look fighting as a couple.

Have nothing clever to add, except I absolutely loved that scene. Loved how Cloud was nodding at both girls to escape, and then it pans to Tifa who nods and tells Aerith to escape. She not only wanted to stay by Cloud's side to aide him, but she was concerned for her "girlfriend" Aerith's saftey as well. I was probably in love with her already, but I remember saying out loud to my brother, "Oh, shit, I love this woman."

Seeing Cloud and Tifa fight together, being so in sync and in tune with each other in battle is everything.