Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

Eerie

Fire and Blood
So cruel @JT77fp ? I don’t think Tifa sees Marle this way, tbh, since she’s more reserved. I feel that Marle saw her true character and decided to take her under her wing so to speak (that saying does exist in English right?) but Tifa doesn’t exactly feel the same way towards her. I didn’t get that vibe anyway. Their parting didn’t feel like family parting either! Contrarily to Barret who got a special scene and extra despaired “Marlene!” At the end where you can feel the separation between family.
 

odekopeko

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Peko
'Aeriths Tinkerbell sidekick'
LOL what??? The only time I did briefly think about Tinkerbell and laugh was when I used Fleeting Familiar and that fairy popped out.

If Tifa stays with Cloud at the Highwind because she has nowhere else to go, that statement would now be seen as false. So Cloti fans, if y'all want your Highwind scene, I'm sorry but Marle. Has. To. Die.
Damn. This is true. But maybe they could change it to Cloud saying he has nowhere else to go, and Tifa can be like, "Then, I want to stay here with you. I want to be be your side." So cheesy! But Tifa would totally say something like that.
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
Wait, I might be missing something here but does Tifa know that Marle survived? I don't recall any interaction between Tifa and Marle after the plate fall. Am I missremembering?
.
 

minami758

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Miiwoo
@Graymouse They help out Marle and some platefall survivors when returning to Sector 7 in Chapter 13. Tifa knows Marle's alive, and actually I agree with @JT77fp on this. While I love Marle and hope she sticks around until at least later in the story, I think at some point (probably during the Midgar raid at the end or maybe when the Weapons awaken) Marle will have to die.
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
@Graymouse They help out Marle and some platefall survivors when returning to Sector 7 in Chapter 13. Tifa knows Marle's alive, and actually I agree with @JT77fp on this. While I love Marle and hope she sticks around until at least later in the story, I think at some point (probably during the Midgar raid at the end or maybe when the Weapons awaken) Marle will have to die.

Yeah, I forgot about that.

Regarding Marle dying, I see this the other way. The Remake HW scene can still happen as in the OG. I am pretty sure that Tifa will choose to stay with Cloud. When Cloud lets everyone go before the final battle he tells everyone to go and be with the people who are important to them.

Cloud is the most important person in Tifa's life. So, she would naturally choose to stay with Cloud for the last night. The HW scene can still happen even if Marle is alive.

You don't have to kill Marle off just so that the HW scene can happen. That is bad story telling.
 

minami758

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Miiwoo
Hmm, I disagree that it's bad storytelling. Sure, if you kill her off just so the Highwind scene happens (like that being the sole reason), then yeah that's not good. But I'm saying I expect the team to go through more loss along the way, and Marle could very well be a part of that loss later into the story. This would be fairly far into the third act, when we expect everything to go to shit. One doesn't negate the other, Marle dying doesn't mean it's just because of the HW scene, it'd simply be a prelude/part of the climax.
 

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
As much as I love Marle and her relationship with Tifa, I don't think her being alive will change the way the HW scene will play out (or make it less impactful in any way, because Tifa will have "someone to come back"). If we follow this logic, in OG, Tifa could have easily left with Barret to see Marlene, since both are people with whom she is as close as family ... but she didn't because, in the end, she didn't feel like she belonged where Barret and Marlene were.

And, of course, there's Cloud and her connection with him. So, in a way, you can say that the HW scene emphasizes Cloud and Tifa as people who lost their home and the feeling of belonging somewhere but found that "home" and that feeling again in each other (that night, under the Highwind lol).
 

iamhorde

Pro Adventurer
Marle being the CloTi queen that she is wouldn't ruin the Highwind scene even if she were alive. She's been looking forward to something like that happening between Cloud and Tifa since Chapter 3! I'm sure she'd make some excuse to "not be available" before the final battle, if she survives till then. In Nojima I trust.

That said, I was a little disappointed to not see Nojima being interviewed in the Famitsu feature, or maybe I missed it. I always felt like Nojima was the patron saint of CloTi among all the senior developers and I hope he gets to write more awesome scenarios for our fav couple.
 

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
I dunno, I think Marle's gotta live. She's the embodiment of all us crazy Cloti shippers so you know she's gonna be clinging on for dear life until she can see the day Cloud and Tifa finally get their shit together.

I was looking back at the OG script, and Cloud doesn't exactly tell everyone to go home to their loved ones, but rather to find the reason they're fighting. Now, Tifa does say she doesn't have a home/anyone to go back to, but she's not exactly answering Cloud's question there.

She's doing that thing she always does where she's dancing around her feelings because she's not ready to be so direct. (Honestly, she does this in almost every single "heart-to-heart" she has with Cloud in the Remake. It's kinda funny because she's so transparent. Luckily for her, Cloud's just as dense!) She's staying behind because she doesn't need to find it, she already knows her reason for fighting, and that reason is Cloud. cue the Hoobastank
 

minami758

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Miiwoo
Y'all make really good points! I guess I just like the angst that would come out of it lol, and it feels something that could happen, even though I would love for Marle to make it to the end. What with SE sort of avoiding big deaths in Part 1, I can't help but think we'll probably get more tragedy happening toward the climax of the story.
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
I am double posting only to discuss the below tweets, and this facilitates the discussion.


Anyways, take a look at these two scenes that happened on top of Section 7 plate support section of the game. A lot of times things can be missed in a scene but when it is slowed down you can see the way Cloud and Tifa interact here clearly isn't by accident. I wanted to celebrate this by discussing the emotions that are being displayed in this scene without saying a word.

All the things that are going on around them, the "rat tat tat", explosions, helicopters shooting rattling guns at them, somehow both Cloud and Tifa seek each other out. Cloud was clearly looking directly at Tifa while she was running into her mans arms. It is just beautiful public display of affection!


You take the same scene but reverse it, what do you get? It looks like a very sad farewell, that when Tifa "leaves" Cloud has his arms out at her yearning for her not to go. So, much emotion is being displayed here. I simply love it!

What do you guys think? Have I finally went off the deep end?
 

odekopeko

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Peko
What do you guys think? Have I finally went off the deep end?
I think we all have. Meeting you there.

And you guys...hopefully this isn't breaking any rules, but I mistakenly did Tifa wrong over the Train Graveyard scene after they fall. I didn't pick up that she said "O-Oww...Um yeah, I'm okay." So she actually hurt her leg during the fall, but she was pretending to be okay, so they wouldn't worry. Aerith looks at her worried because of that. And there I thought it was about the silly LTD. Cloud's reaction was a bit unreadable. I'm not sure what was going on in his mind then. It felt like he wanted to say something.


So Aerith watches Tifa the whole time, and then turns to Cloud after to check his reaction, so she definitely noticed something was going on. Both Cloud and Tifa are not saying something to each other even though it feels like they want to.

These two can be so frustrating. But it helps that someone looked at this scene again, giving me a fresh perspective.
 

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
All the things that are going on around them, the "rat tat tat", explosions, helicopters shooting rattling guns at them, somehow both Cloud and Tifa seek each other out. Cloud was clearly looking directly at Tifa while she was running into her mans arms. It is just beautiful public display of affection!
I've obviously been off the deep end for a while, but I don't think you're reading too much into anything here. You can notice the nuances in their movements when you slow it down, but even playing it at normal speed, this moment is something that game itself is deliberately drawing attention to. (I'll go into this in excruciating detail further down in the post).

And you guys...hopefully this isn't breaking any rules, but I mistakenly did Tifa wrong over the Train Graveyard scene after they fall. I didn't pick up that she said "O-Oww...Um yeah, I'm okay." So she actually hurt her leg during the fall, but she was pretending to be okay, so they wouldn't worry. Aerith looks at her worried because of that. And there I thought it was about the silly LTD. .
Oh interesting. I never noticed that Tifa was the only one of the three who didn't land on her feet. That being said, I don't think you're wrong for thinking it was LTD related. I think a lot of the Train Graveyard chapter was edited in an almost deceiving way to play up the LTD, even when the actions of the characters don't support such a reading.

Okiedokie, time to do a delve into "action touching," and why trying to dismiss all of Cloud and Tifa's physical intimacy in such scenarios is just silly.
First, I will say there are certain "action touches" where we are only really supposed to notice the action, where the thoughts and feelings of the person being saved/doing the saving aren't particularly important. These moments are usually quite brief (a few seconds, literally you could blink and miss it), and quite basic in terms of shot composition. You only need 3 shots to establish the save.

1) Character A noticing the danger
2) Character A saving Character(s) B from the danger (i.e., the action part)
3) The aftermath of said save to show that it was successful.

These two moments illustrate it perfectly.

GMKL7ry.gif

1) Cloud notices the danger. 2) Cloud carries the girls to safety. 3) We see where they land

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1) Barret notices the danger. 2) Barret carries Aerith to safety. 3) We see where they land

These moments really do just serve as action moments. They don't tell us anything about the relationships between the characters. I would say that few of Cloud and Tifa's action moments fall into this category.

There are a couple of these action saves that follow that same basic structure, but are a bit more elaborate. These "extra" shots tell us what the game wants us to pay attention to.

Here we have Cloud catching Aerith from the roof:
HrSiJzK.png

I would call (2) + (3) the "noticing the danger"; (4) the "action save"; and (5) the "aftermath"

Cloud saving Aerith from Eligor/the shipping container Eligor has possessed:
TjLoZPl.png

(1) is the "danger"; (3) is "the save"; (4) "the aftermath"


And Cloud saving Tifa from a stray shipping container (what is with these containers!) outside of what's left of Seventh Heaven:
DO0kwiH.png

(3)+(4) is "the danger"; (5a) is the "save"; (5b) is the "aftermath"

In both Aerith scenes, the "extra" shots in her scenes draw our attention to Aerith and her reaction to being saved. When Cloud is the main focus of a shot, he is literally in "action" i.e., running. Even with the Bridal catch, (5) zooms out from a close-up of Aerith's face, so our focus is still on her.
In the Eligor scene, (2) focuses on Aerith's face as she realizes she's being saved, but we never get a reaction shot of Cloud. Instead, after they land, it's back to business as usual and they both focus on Eligor, before Tifa comes in and has her moment with Aerith.

In Tifa's scene, (4) is just a shot of Cloud's face reacting to the falling container. He's not doing anything just yet. (5a) starts with a close-up of Tifa('s chest) but Cloud quickly moves into the frame, and he is the character in motion, so I would say our focus is split between the two characters, if not a bit more towards Cloud since he was the subject of the previous shot. Instead of cutting to a new shot, it's one continuous action, with (5b) showing the "aftermath" of the save.

In short, for Aerith's scenes, we're supposed notice Aerith's reaction to being saved (which makes sense, in Ch. 8, Cloud is finally fulfilling his duty as a bodyguard, in the Train Graveyard, she's lost and is finally found); whereas in Tifa's scene, we're supposed to notice Cloud's desire to save Tifa (I assume this point is self-explanatory in this club, lol)


In general though, many of Cloud and Tifa's "action" moments aren't particularly illuminating of the action. As in they seem to showcase their emotional connection/physical intimacy at the expense of telling us what is actually going on in that scene.

There are many a moment where one character helps another off of the ground.

Cloud helping Jessie up during the first mission:
kS0nfXC.png


Rude lifting Reno up on the pillar:
2Fx6HWY.png


Cloud helping Tifa on the pillar:
2Pvw7Z1.png

No, that's it. It's literally just one shot.

In the other scenes, the first two shots establish where each individual character is, and the third shows where they are after they've been helped up. The Cloud and Tifa shot....literally tells us nothing about how Cloud helps Tifa up. In fact, a bit later on (after Rude and Reno leave on the helicopter) we finally see Tifa getting up and Cloud taking his hands off her shoulders, so I guess we're supposed to assume the entire time they've just been looking into each others' eyes while trying to reenact the Pieta or something?

But in all seriousness, the Cloud and Tifa shot serves no plot purpose other than to show the two of them being so intimate. It's especially telling, because the Rude-Reno shots come right after. They have a nice moment too -- it tells us something about what's going on action-wise while also revealing the relationship between the two.

Since we're on the pillar, here we have Cloud running into cover:
sicLDkI.gif

Now this is a real capital A Action shot. We see Cloud running, we see the helicopter shooting at him, we see Barret shooting back at the helicopter, all in one shot!

Here is Tifa running into cover (from more or less the same position as Cloud):
hzkXYde.gif

Umm...in lieu of any action, we have Cloud beckoning Tifa over and the two of them getting real up close and personal and staring into each others' eyes. Was the chopper still shooting at Tifa? Did Tifa also heroically dodge some bullets? Err....maybe? Again, the game is focusing on Cloud and Tifa's relationship at the expense of the action.


This is more of a minor example. Our characters are always almost falling to their deaths. Here's a few moments where it's a team effort to get them back up to safety.

Cloud falling in the sewers:
33jJxiE.gif


Barret falling as they climb up the plate:
rraRB4x.gif


Cloud falling yet again when fighting the Whispers:
EsXzSCE.gif


They're all shot fairly similarly, except in the two cases where Cloud is falling, the last shot is wide shot where we can see the geography of all three characters at once. When Cloud and Tifa are saving Barret, we instead have a medium shot where we can clearly see Cloud's hand resting on Tifa's back. That then requires an additional shot to show us where Barret landed. What an inch resting choice.

Finally, in the second Abzu battle, we have so many action saves!

Leslie saving Tifa:
yFvMWKX.gif


Cloud saving Tifa:
9isDEo0.gif


Barret saving Cloud and Tifa:
6NG9TYg.gif


These are all quick action-y moments, but Cloud saving Tifa is the only one where a character's face is in focus. She thinks she's gonna bite it until Cloud saves the day (err or the moment, I guess). That's to say nothing of how these saves were performed. Grabbing someone by the wrist and running with them is arguably slower and more dangerous than just pushing them to safety, and yet...

This was kind of hard to even put this together, because so many of Cloud and Tifa's "action touches" are unique and there wasn't anything I could find to compare and contrast them to. This leads me to my final point, which is that the devs deliberately chose to animate all of Cloud/Tifa's "action touches." Cloud and Aerith go through a lot of danger together, and yet, I'm pretty sure the two scenes I broke down above are the only times in the game where Cloud saves her. There is nothing inherently more dangerous about the battles Cloud and Tifa face together that would require Cloud to save Tifa. I would say Hell House was easily the hardest boss in the game, and that fight had multiple phase shifts (not to mention it throws a bunch of projectiles), so there were plenty of opportunities for the devs to have Cloud saving Aerith, but they didn't.

Same with the final battle with the Whispers. Every character is in danger during the fight, but the game chooses to show Cloud saving Tifa. I wonder why?
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
@odekopeko how funny is that, I rewatched that scene 2 days ago and I thought to myself "mmh, that's odd, I remember Tifa sounding more pissed, but she isn't in fact?" That tweet indeed nails it, she's trying to cover up and Aerith is worried about her - I think it's there that she picks up that Tifa always hides her pain, which will get her to ask in the Drums if she's ok, because the plate has fallen and she's not aware that Cloud already comforted her.

As for Cloud, I do think that he's currently telling himself that he's a failure because he failed to protect Tifa and she got hurt, so somehow it must be his fault again. That's how his brain works, seriously. And that's why he takes extra care to protect her after that - there are many scenes in the Train Graveyard where he prioritises Tifa over Aerith, and this may be why.

@insanehobbit thank you for your post! Very insightful, and this might be why people feel that Cloud and Tifa are so intimate without even thinking about it closely. That's what the game leads you to think. It's true that Cloud could have saved Aerith a bunch of time against the Hell House, but it was chosen that he wouldn't, and in a game where the choices made are super obvious, it's also interesting to stop on the choices that were not.
 

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
Another great post @insanehobbit *_* As @Eerie mentioned, it just shows how much of a great Job SE has done because while I could never explain it in such precision and dept as you did here, as a player I could just tell there was definitely something special/unique in their interactions. Good to know it wasn't just my shipping goggles, lol.

This is such an interesting topic because when we think about these interactions between Cloud and Tifa... it’s really very unique in the game. We went over this topic back at the LTD thread precisely calling attention to this: it’s not that Cloud doesn’t touch or interact more intimately with anyone except with Tifa during the game, it's that their interactions are very unique and tend to happen at times when those interactions are not necessary, which kind of attracts the players' attention to them and their relationship, even if unconsciously.

A good example of this is the "How about a date?" from Aerith to Cloud, although it definitely has some romantic undertones here (even more when we know where she got that line from), when you have Aerith acting the same way towards Tifa and getting a date with her, you end up establishing it more as a trait of Aerith as a character than something particularly related to Aerith and Cloud as a couple. The same thing can be said with the high fives (Aerith/Cloud and Aerith/Tifa) and the bridal catch/carry (Cloud/Jessie and Cloud/Aerith), and that's probably why so many people finished this first part of the game interpreting their relationship as more platonic than romantic...but that's a topic for the LTD thread, so I'll stop here, lol.

But I mentioned the example above because if Cloud or Tifa acted the way they acted with each other with other people, that would be much more about them as characters than something related to them as a couple, and it's precisely because they don't act like that with anyone else and their most intimate moments are distinctly reserved for each other that we have this perception that there is something more between them.
 
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Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
A good example of this is the "How about a date?" from Aerith to Cloud, although it definitely has some romantic undertones here (even more when we know where she got that line from), when you have Aerith acting the same way towards Tifa and getting a date with her, you end up establishing it more as a trait of Aerith as a character than something particularly related to Aerith and Cloud as a couple. The same thing can be said with the high fives (Aerith/Cloud and Aerith/Tifa) and the bridal catch/carry (Cloud/Jessie and Cloud/Aerith), and that's probably why so many people finished this first part of the game interpreting their relationship as more platonic than romantic...but that's a topic for the LTD thread, so I'll stop here, lol.

But I mentioned the example above because if Cloud or Tifa acted the way they acted with each other with other people, that would be much more about them as characters than something related to them as a couple, and it's precisely because they don't act like that with anyone else and their most intimate moments are distinctly reserved for each other that we have this perception that there is something more between them.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment, and I couldn't agree with you more. I never really gave much thought to the fact that Cloud's and Tifa's interactions with each other are genuinely unique to them and them alone. It was right in our faces this entire time. It is easy for one to deduce that these two have a very special relationship with each other that extends beyond friendship.

Of course, I can't post here without showing some apperciation for Cloud X Tifa.

 
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insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
But I mentioned the example above because if Cloud or Tifa acted the way they acted with each other with other people, that would be much more about them as characters than something related to them as a couple, and it's precisely because they don't act like that with anyone else and their most intimate moments are distinctly reserved for each other that we have this perception that there is something more between them.

Yes! Though, I think in the Remake it's much more so Cloud->Tifa interactions where you can notice the difference than the other way around. Tifa is pretty friendly/touchy with Barret and Aerith as well, and it's only in her optional scenes and when they chat in each others' bedrooms (lol) that you get a sense there's something else there. It's more obvious with Cloud because even in his in-game dialogue, he's a pretty reticent guy. Not a jerk by any means, but often times with other characters, Cloud won't talk back unless he's being asked a direct question. Whereas with Tifa, she can make a throwaway comment and he'll use it as an opportunity to compliment/flirt, or she'll just breathe and he'll say her name.

In terms of the cutscenes, when Cloud is with Tifa (or even when someone else mentions Tifa in his presence), the camera tracks his reaction in a way it doesn't really do in other scenes. It reminds me of some of the better romantic dramas of recent years (I'm thinking of specifically of Carol and Call Me By Your Name and I guess the first few episodes of Normal People to throw the straights a bone lol) where the camera follows the perspective of the more vulnerable party of the relationship, which in the case of the Remake would be Cloud.

I think all of this stuff viewed individually is pretty subtle (though deliberate), but when you look at it all in its totality, it's just really bleeding obvious? Among the myriad of reasons I don't venture into the LTD threads is that I legitimately don't think there is a LTD to even debate in the Remake. And (I am only 99% joking here) if there is a Love Triangle, it looks a lot more like CloTi vs. AerTi. The girls have their own special thing too, which is clasping hands and staring into each others' eyes while the men are in the background being useless.

I'm sure this has been discussed already, but looking back on it now, I think the LTD is something that only existed in disc one of the OG (despite the many hours of my youth I squandered arguing with strangers on the Internet on the subject).

It's not even just because one third of the triangle dies at the end of disc one, but because almost all of Cloud and Tifa's relationship development happens after that moment. Even outside of the Lifestream and the Highwind scene, we have the Northern Crater where Cloud tells Tifa that it's only her attitude/opinion that counts. It's also then that we learn that Cloud was practically catatonic before Tifa found him at the station. Aerith really isn't mentioned at all until we're almost at the end of the game and they have to figure out how to stop Sephiroth. Even then, Cloud is speaking on behalf of the entire team of her as a beloved fallen comrade whose legacy they will carry on. There really is no mention of Cloud's personal feelings towards her after disc one, certainly nothing close to what is revealed of his feelings for Tifa.

I think people were really thrown by the whole "I think I can meet her there" in the ending, assuming a romantic connotation, but that would truly be a bizarre out of left-field last second twist, as there's no build-up for it whatsoever in discs 2 + 3. It makes much more sense if you read it as Cloud coming to peace with what he thinks will be his own death.

In the OG, the LTD is a mechanic at the service of the twist that comes at the end of Disc One. Aerith is portrayed as the romantic interest because you would not expect to MC's love interest to be killed off halfway through the game. But the Remake is a different animal entirely. Her death is no longer a twist, just as how Sephiroth being the real villain is no longer a twist. There is no need for the Remake to obscure Sephiroth's presence early on because we already know he's the real villain. In the same way, there is no need for the Remake to build up Aerith as the main romantic interest because we already know she won't be/can't be.

Also, looking back at the OG (and it seems the Remake will be following most of these beats), Cloud's journey revolves around a single character (Tifa) in a way that no other FF Series MC does, even in the more explicitly romantic games. Obviously, this is a oversimplification, but you can summarize Cloud's arc as thus:
  • Cloud becomes obsessed with Sephiroth/tries to join SOLDIER because of Tifa
  • After Nibelheim burns, Cloud finds the strength to kill Sephiroth, at least in part (he specifically calls her out), because of Tifa
  • Cloud is experimented on by Hojo, but is rescued by Zack, who gives his life for him so he can survive
  • Cloud wanders around in a nearly catatonic state and is only able to string full sentences together because TIfa finds him
  • The OG proper begins with Cloud joining the AVALANCHE Reactor mission, a mission he is only a part of because of Tifa
  • More reactor missions, which leads to Cloud falling into Aerith's church, which leads to Aerith gets captured at the Shinra building, which leads to Cloud finding out that Sephiroth is still alive and he needs to settle the score
  • Cloud chases Sephiroth, he starts losing his mind along the way. Aerith dies, but his mind doesn't shatter until the Northern Crater when Tifa loses her faith in him
  • Cloud is again a vegetable with Mako poisoning, until the Lifestream where Tifa helps him put his mind back together
  • They defeat Sephiroth, try to stop Meteor, only for the Lifestream to save the day
Tifa really is the one constant in Cloud's life (and to a lesser extent Sephiroth. I think their KH2 portrayals are pretty accurate in the sense that Sephiroth is the constant negative influence and Tifa the constant positive influence in his life). This is not to diminish the importance of Zack or Aerith, but the beauty and tragedy of those relationships is that they are cut short. They both have a tremendous impact on Cloud's life, but they are like ships that pass in the night.

That's why I love the whole "because I have you this time" / "you've always had me" exchange in Case of Tifa so much. She has always been there for him, though I'm not sure she realizes to what extent. Even if Cloud hadn't already explicitly said it, it's pretty clear that Tifa is the most important person in his life. While I don't think the most important relationship in your life needs to be a romantic one, we do live in a pretty heteronormative society still, and when it comes to a pretty boy and a pretty girl of the same age, you really need to go out of the way to show that said relationship is not a romantic one.

I forgot what point I was trying to make here. I guess if you're trying to remake a beloved sci-fi action-adventure into an epic romance, I would highly suggest you not have one of the character's interior lives revolve around someone else entirely.
 

JT77fp

Lv. 25 Adventurer
I think people were really thrown by the whole "I think I can meet her there" in the ending, assuming a romantic connotation, but that would truly be a bizarre out of left-field last second twist, as there's no build-up for it whatsoever in discs 2 + 3. It makes much more sense if you read it as Cloud coming to peace with what he thinks will be his own death.
Not to mention that it was only a few hours ago that morning, that very same morning, he'd just gotten out of bed with Tifa.... That would mean he decides to ditch her same day!

Unless you went on a zillion side quests, bred 4 generations of chocobos, fought Weapons...then it was an eternity ago! :mon:

@Graymouse thanks for holding the fort and updating us with the latest from Twitter!
 
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iamhorde

Pro Adventurer

Just saw this on Twitter and Instagram. Many comments are commenting about the disrespect calling their relationship as "friendship" while the other side seems to be having a field day proving the whole "platonic debate".

Not trying to start LTD here but Square Enix's marketing team seems to be fueling the flames. They probably need to read @insanehobbit's analyses to know where their bosses are going with this series.

On the other hand, technically Cloud and Tifa are best friends so I'm glad their celebrating the friendship but not when there's a LTD going on for years! I would love to hear your thoughts, without delving too far into LTD territory.
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue

Just saw this on Twitter and Instagram. Many comments are commenting about the disrespect calling their relationship as "friendship" while the other side seems to be having a field day proving the whole "platonic debate".

Not trying to start LTD here but Square Enix's marketing team seems to be fueling the flames. They probably need to read @insanehobbit's analyses to know where their bosses are going with this series.

On the other hand, technically Cloud and Tifa are best friends so I'm glad their celebrating the friendship but not when there's a LTD going on for years! I would love to hear your thoughts, without delving too far into LTD territory.

I think both Twitter and the LTD are two huge mistakes...

Real talk though, using a pic of Tifa and Aerith would’ve probably been less likely to fuel shipping debates but I wouldn’t give so much value to tweets over the actual content of the story.

I will say that friendship and romance aren’t mutually exclusive, and are both necessary in a healthy relationship. Though that relationship doesn’t develop romantically between Cloud and Tifa until much later in the story after brewing for years. Cloud and Aerith by comparison develop much quicker romantically before being tragically cut short. But the real tragedy is that even their friendship is tainted by Cloud’s mental instability as he wasn’t truly himself until after Aerith’s passing. Which isn’t to say that the “real” Cloud wouldn’t have been friends with Aerith, but that’s just not how the story goes. At least Cloud and Tifa’s feelings and memories of one another existed outside of Cloud’s illness, and it’s those feelings and memories that ultimately restore his mind.
 
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a_apple 2.0

Pro Adventurer
AKA
a_apple

Just saw this on Twitter and Instagram. Many comments are commenting about the disrespect calling their relationship as "friendship" while the other side seems to be having a field day proving the whole "platonic debate".

Not trying to start LTD here but Square Enix's marketing team seems to be fueling the flames. They probably need to read @insanehobbit's analyses to know where their bosses are going with this series.

On the other hand, technically Cloud and Tifa are best friends so I'm glad their celebrating the friendship but not when there's a LTD going on for years! I would love to hear your thoughts, without delving too far into LTD territory.
lol they know what they doing
 
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