Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

[insanehobbit]

Sorry about that! Totally my bad, added them now.

Spoiler

I am curious how it's all going to link up to Advent Children, because yeah, it's going to feel very anticlimactic after the "final" battle if we know Sephiroth is just gonna come back in two years.

I wonder if we're gonna get an extended coda/epilogue in part 3 (a la the ending of TLOU2) depicting the two years leading up to Advent Children and the events of the film itself. Because iirc we don't actually see Zerith reunited until the very end of the film (maybe Sephiroth's presence is preventing them from finding each other in the Lifestream or something?) and Rebirth is obviously building to their reunion.

Would be really nice to see a chapter or two that's basically domestic/slice of life Cloti before everything goes to shit with the Remnants and Geostigma. I don't think Nojima really shied away from their romance/intimacy in CoT, though obviously people were twisting themselves into pretzels to convince themselves otherwise, but it was lacking in the film for sure. But yeah, would love to see a scene where Cloud and/or Tifa decide that they need to get matching outfits, lmao.

I don't know if I can see Tifa becoming more angry/violent post-NC/losing Cloud necessarily. I think that was the state she was in after Nibelheim/when she joined up with AVALANCHE, but when they're back in the fake Nibelheim, she says she realized that wasn't enough, right around the time she found Cloud again.

I can't see her reverting back to her younger self, but I can see her becoming more...unmoored? Almost directionless, in a sense. We're already seeing that at the end of Rebirth. The rest of the game, she's like the only person in the party who's always thinking about where they're going and how they're going to get there, but that's gone after Aerith's death, and Barret has to step up as the leader. I think we're going to see someone who's always been dependable/reliable become overwhelmed with uncertainty/insecurity.

It's something we, the player, have always known about her, but she's only ever really shared those doubts/insecurities with Cloud. To everyone else, she's putting on this mask of strength (honestly, kinda like Cloud, but in a less delusional way, lol), but once Cloud is gone, she just can't do it anymore, and everyone else begins to see her true self and what she's been struggling with all along.

 

[Sacky]

Sorry about that! Totally my bad, added them now.

Spoiler

I am curious how it's all going to link up to Advent Children, because yeah, it's going to feel very anticlimactic after the "final" battle if we know Sephiroth is just gonna come back in two years.

I wonder if we're gonna get an extended coda/epilogue in part 3 (a la the ending of TLOU2) depicting the two years leading up to Advent Children and the events of the film itself. Because iirc we don't actually see Zerith reunited until the very end of the film (maybe Sephiroth's presence is preventing them from finding each other in the Lifestream or something?) and Rebirth is obviously building to their reunion.

Would be really nice to see a chapter or two that's basically domestic/slice of life Cloti before everything goes to shit with the Remnants and Geostigma. I don't think Nojima really shied away from their romance/intimacy in CoT, though obviously people were twisting themselves into pretzels to convince themselves otherwise, but it was lacking in the film for sure. But yeah, would love to see a scene where Cloud and/or Tifa decide that they need to get matching outfits, lmao.

I don't know if I can see Tifa becoming more angry/violent post-NC/losing Cloud necessarily. I think that was the state she was in after Nibelheim/when she joined up with AVALANCHE, but when they're back in the fake Nibelheim, she says she realized that wasn't enough, right around the time she found Cloud again.

I can't see her reverting back to her younger self, but I can see her becoming more...unmoored? Almost directionless, in a sense. We're already seeing that at the end of Rebirth. The rest of the game, she's like the only person in the party who's always thinking about where they're going and how they're going to get there, but that's gone after Aerith's death, and Barret has to step up as the leader. I think we're going to see someone who's always been dependable/reliable become overwhelmed with uncertainty/insecurity.

It's something we, the player, have always known about her, but she's only ever really shared those doubts/insecurities with Cloud. To everyone else, she's putting on this mask of strength (honestly, kinda like Cloud, but in a less delusional way, lol), but once Cloud is gone, she just can't do it anymore, and everyone else begins to see her true self and what she's been struggling with all along.

Spoiler

Normally i would be saying domestic/slice of life would never happen in a game like this. But then Rebirth most of the game had Cloud and Tifa doing there own thing in every scene. The car keys getting passed over for example. A lot of the side missions also felt like slice of life short novels. Though that might be harder to do in part 3 considering the whole end of the world theme going on. I do wonder if they release more post advent children or remake trilogy stuff after the final part aswell. There's a lot of potential in novels or other forms of media for that. Really depends on if they end part 3 like OG or show us more advent children City of Edge stuff.

 

[Graymouse]

Not a spoiler but I hid it so it won't be so taxing on cell phones or older computers.

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555596721421295616

 

[Graymouse]

I think you guys will forgive me for the double posts but I wanted to really add this to the wall of pictures in the clubhouse. Now, there are pictures that have spoilers in them. Please view this at your own risk!

Spoiler: They are so lovely together throughout the trilogy!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1764770975671861441

 

[cgnVirtue]

I think you guys will forgive me for the double posts but I wanted to really add this to the wall of pictures in the clubhouse. Now, there are pictures that have spoilers in them. Please view this at your own risk!

Spoiler: They are so lovely together throughout the trilogy!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1764770975671861441

This is my first post here, so um, hi.
Anyways, I just wanna say how (and I say this with affection) annoyed I am by how much I LOVE this relationship. I never played the original FF7, I’m not really into anime all that much (barring a few exceptions), and I’ve never been that into shipping whatsoever. But after playing through both Remake and Rebirth I can say that I’ve never, in my life, been so invested in a fictional relationship. I literally made this account to gush about it somewhere. All of the little gestures, the way his demeanor changes with her, the way she looks at him, how much they care for each other. Oh my god. Stuff like this makes me want to sweep my wife off her feet over and over and over again. I’ve never swooned in my life and yet here I am getting butterflies watching their high affection gold saucer date.
Even looking at these pictures just puts the biggest grin on my face.

I’d read about FF7 through wikis and other lore sources and I never cared, really. And when I was younger I just thought Aerith was Cloud’s “Zelda”, so to speak. And later I figured it was probably up to player interpretation. But I see now that I’ve played both Remake and Rebirth there is a beautiful love story between Cloud and Tifa woven into this epic adventure that’s filled with tragedy, guilt, loss, finding purpose, and much much more than I can describe in a single post. But all of this is to say that I didn’t care before, but now I’m all in on CloTi. This is such a beautiful story (in general and with CloTi) and I’m so glad I get to experience it now.

If you’ve made it this far, thank you for indulging me in my rambling.

 

[Graymouse]

This is my first post here, so um, hi.
Anyways, I just wanna say how (and I say this with affection) annoyed I am by how much I LOVE this relationship. I never played the original FF7, I’m not really into anime all that much (barring a few exceptions), and I’ve never been that into shipping whatsoever. But after playing through both Remake and Rebirth I can say that I’ve never, in my life, been so invested in a fictional relationship. I literally made this account to gush about it somewhere. All of the little gestures, the way his demeanor changes with her, the way she looks at him, how much they care for each other. Oh my god. Stuff like this makes me want to sweep my wife off her feet over and over and over again. I’ve never swooned in my life and yet here I am getting butterflies watching their high affection gold saucer date.
Even looking at these pictures just puts the biggest grin on my face.

I’d read about FF7 through wikis and other lore sources and I never cared, really. And when I was younger I just thought Aerith was Cloud’s “Zelda”, so to speak. And later I figured it was probably up to player interpretation. But I see now that I’ve played both Remake and Rebirth there is a beautiful love story between Cloud and Tifa woven into this epic adventure that’s filled with tragedy, guilt, loss, finding purpose, and much much more than I can describe in a single post. But all of this is to say that I didn’t care before, but now I’m all in on CloTi. This is such a beautiful story (in general and with CloTi) and I’m so glad I get to experience it now.

If you’ve made it this far, thank you for indulging me in my rambling.

First and foremost, Welcome!

I have always loved the slow burn relationships in video game media. In my opinion I feel that those type are the most meaningful to me. Especially the ole "childhood friends" trope. I have always been a sucker for those types.

I can totally relate to Cloud's clumsiness towards Tifa. I will never forget playing the OG when Tifa left the party and said that Cloud (that was trying to save the world by the way) means everything to her and nothing else matters. I don't know how much more direct you can be about confessing your love and devoting yourself to someone. If it wasn't for the WEAPON that came by the town and caused earthquakes causing Cloud and Tifa to fall into the Lifestream. Cloud and Tifa would have the rest of their life together as is. Even as the world around them is being destroyed! Even in Cloud's condition he would have never came out of his comatose.


FF7 has always been written with love, tragedy, guilt and loss and I think that is what has made people come back over and over and not the LTD for that has been resolved in 1997 during the Lifestream sequence and especially under the Highwind!

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Am I alone, or do Cloud and Tifa's synergy moves kinda look like they're dancing together on the enemy's face/soon to be grave? They move so well together under the Highwind

 

[cgnVirtue]

Am I alone, or do Cloud and Tifa's synergy moves kinda look like they're dancing together on the enemy's face/soon to be grave? They move so well together under the Highwind

Okay but for real though their synergy abilities are the most satisfying ones to watch. Party optimization goes out the window for me because I just have to have them both in my party when I can help it. It wasn’t until yesterday that I noticed their unlimited MP synergy ability ends with them both grabbing the buster sword and swinging upwards together.
So yeah you could say that they move very well together. You might say that, physically, they’re always in sync.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

And both really good at handling Cloud's weapon together

 

[Graymouse]

And both really good at handling Cloud's weapon together

Well it is a great sword after all.

 

[luminous03]

I don't have the game but has anyone count how much each character have a SA with others ?

 

[insanehobbit]

I don't have the game but has anyone count how much each character have a SA with others ?

I think each pair of characters get two different SAs (though I haven't done Hard Mode yet so maybe there's a third one?). You can unlock both of Cloud/Tifa's fairly early. I'm kinda annoyed because my most-used party is Cloud/Tifa/Yuffie, and neither Cloud nor Yuffie have a SA with Tifa that raises Tifa's limit level LOL

Random Rebirth thought/question:

Spoiler

What did y'all think about Tifa's Trial during the Temple of the Ancients?

Red/Aerith/Yuffie were pretty straightforward recreations of the worst moments of their lives. Cloud's can be seen the same way, with the underlying subtext that Sephiroth is also implying that Cloud wasn't actually around for what should be the worst moment of his life: the Nibelheim Incident.

For Barret, you first have a happy memory of him and his wife, Myrna, before the worst moment of his life -- losing Myrna. I think this is partially for the audience's benefit so they know who this person is/what she means to him, before we see Barret losing her, so we have more context to his feelings in that moment.

So I wonder if the Water Tower Promise recreation is also meant to give further context to why the Nibelheim Incident is so devasting to Tifa. She sees her village burn down, her father murdered, but maybe the subtext we're meant to read is that in her heart of hearts, she believes that Cloud wasn't actually there for her in her worst moment like he had promised her?

Regardless, really loved it and thought it was a nice touch, especially Kid!Cloud guiding her to the reactor. So much Lifestream foreshadowing in this game!

Sometimes I think about how crazy it is that FF7 is a story where the fate of the world depends on if and when these two country bumpkins admit their feelings for each other.

Because if they had been brave enough to confess seven years ago, I think they would have had a nice happy life together (whether in Nibelheim or elsewhere), but then Cloud wouldn't have tried to join SOLDIER, and he wouldn't have been there to stop Sephiroth's rampage five years ago.

Then, of course, we have the events of the game itself. There are so many times when Tifa could have given up on this shell of a man "pretending" to be her childhood friend. So many times Cloud could have succumbed to the voices in his head and pushed her away for good, but there's that little part of him that remains, who's always desperately reaching out for her. And it's that part of him who's left after his psyche breaks, calling out to her from the Lifestream, putting his heart and his entire existence on the line, exposing his deepest desires and his deepest fears to the one person who could shatter his mind with a momentary loss of faith.

Instead of being confused or repulsed, Tifa embraces every part of him, even the parts he hates the most, and in a moment of bittersweet irony, she reveals that it's always been this Cloud -- the one he loathed, the one he tried to hide from himself -- who she's been in love with all along. And it's only then that his journey comes full circle. He sets out to become a hero just for her, not realizing that he had her heart from the start, but it's only through her love for him that he ends up accidentally becoming a hero for the world.

FF7 isn't generally considered a romance, but even in the more overtly romantic FFs, the protagonists explore their past and present stories through their relationships with different characters. For Squall and Rinoa, their present is with each other, but their pasts are with Raine/Laguna and General Caraway, respectively. For Tidus and Yuna, their present is with each other, but their pasts are with Jecht and Braska. But for Cloud and Tifa, those people are one and the same. Their past, present and future were, are and will always be each other.

 

[cgnVirtue]

Random Rebirth thought/question:

Spoiler

What did y'all think about Tifa's Trial during the Temple of the Ancients?

Red/Aerith/Yuffie were pretty straightforward recreations of the worst moments of their lives. Cloud's can be seen the same way, with the underlying subtext that Sephiroth is also implying that Cloud wasn't actually around for what should be the worst moment of his life: the Nibelheim Incident.

For Barret, you first have a happy memory of him and his wife, Myrna, before the worst moment of his life -- losing Myrna. I think this is partially for the audience's benefit so they know who this person is/what she means to him, before we see Barret losing her, so we have more context to his feelings in that moment.

So I wonder if the Water Tower Promise recreation is also meant to give further context to why the Nibelheim Incident is so devasting to Tifa. She sees her village burn down, her father murdered, but maybe the subtext we're meant to read is that in her heart of hearts, she believes that Cloud wasn't actually there for her in her worst moment like he had promised her?

Regardless, really loved it and thought it was a nice touch, especially Kid!Cloud guiding her to the reactor. So much Lifestream foreshadowing in this game!

Sometimes I think about how crazy it is that FF7 is a story where the fate of the world depends on if and when these two country bumpkins admit their feelings for each other.

Because if they had been brave enough to confess seven years ago, I think they would have had a nice happy life together (whether in Nibelheim or elsewhere), but then Cloud wouldn't have tried to join SOLDIER, and he wouldn't have been there to stop Sephiroth's rampage five years ago.

Then, of course, we have the events of the game itself. There are so many times when Tifa could have given up on this shell of a man "pretending" to be her childhood friend. So many times Cloud could have succumbed to the voices in his head and pushed her away for good, but there's that little part of him that remains, who's always desperately reaching out for her. And it's that part of him who's left after his psyche breaks, calling out to her from the Lifestream, putting his heart and his entire existence on the line, exposing his deepest desires and his deepest fears to the one person who could shatter his mind with a momentary loss of faith.

Instead of being confused or repulsed, Tifa embraces every part of him, even the parts he hates the most, and in a moment of bittersweet irony, she reveals that it's always been this Cloud -- the one he loathed, the one he tried to hide from himself -- who she's been in love with all along. And it's only then that his journey comes full circle. He sets out to become a hero just for her, not realizing that he had her heart from the start, but it's only through her love for him that he ends up accidentally becoming a hero for the world.

FF7 isn't generally considered a romance, but even in the more overtly romantic FFs, the protagonists explore their past and present stories through their relationships with different characters. For Squall and Rinoa, their present is with each other, but their pasts are with Raine/Laguna and General Caraway, respectively. For Tidus and Yuna, their present is with each other, but their pasts are with Jecht and Braska. But for Cloud and Tifa, those people are one and the same. Their past, present and future were, are and will always be each other.

Dude, I just wanna know how you always put things so beautifully. Seriously. This is a ridiculously good analysis.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

You know, if Cloud and Tifa has gotten out of their own way and gotten together in Nibelheim, things wouldn't be totally hopeless. Cloud would still have his massive potential, remember he killed Sephiroth the first time before mako/Jenova enhancements. It's just possible he'd be studying under Zangan and serving as Tifa's sparring partner during those years. Getting skilled, working up a sweat ... Communicating feelings without words. By fighting, of course

 

[Sacky]

You know, if Cloud and Tifa has gotten out of their own way and gotten together in Nibelheim, things wouldn't be totally hopeless. Cloud would still have his massive potential, remember he killed Sephiroth the first time before mako/Jenova enhancements. It's just possible he'd be studying under Zangan and serving as Tifa's sparring partner during those years. Getting skilled, working up a sweat ... Communicating feelings without words. By fighting, of course

This sounds like an interesting fanfic idea XD

 

[GamerSkull]

You know, if Cloud and Tifa has gotten out of their own way and gotten together in Nibelheim, things wouldn't be totally hopeless. Cloud would still have his massive potential, remember he killed Sephiroth the first time before mako/Jenova enhancements. It's just possible he'd be studying under Zangan and serving as Tifa's sparring partner during those years. Getting skilled, working up a sweat ... Communicating feelings without words. By fighting, of course

Reminds me of that line by Garrus in Mass Effect.

“I had reach but she had flexibility.”

 

[Graymouse]

I think Tifa would beat Cloud up on the daily. If Cloud was Tifa's sparring partner.

 

[Hellenic]

Cloud/Tifa/Yuffie, and neither Cloud nor Yuffie have a SA with Tifa that raises Tifa's limit level LOL

I was annoyed for the same exact thing, which probably will make me use that accessory on Tifa that just gives her access to her final tier limit automatically. Or i'll bench Yuffie for someone else, not sure yet.

 

[insanehobbit]

Dude, I just wanna know how you always put things so beautifully. Seriously. This is a ridiculously good analysis.

LOL thank you. I guess this is just what happens when you've been thinking about these characters for like nearly two decades, and it's kinda my day job to figure out how to articulate these things (not about Final Fantasy characters, just to be clear lol).

You know, if Cloud and Tifa has gotten out of their own way and gotten together in Nibelheim, things wouldn't be totally hopeless. Cloud would still have his massive potential, remember he killed Sephiroth the first time before mako/Jenova enhancements. It's just possible he'd be studying under Zangan and serving as Tifa's sparring partner during those years. Getting skilled, working up a sweat ... Communicating feelings without words. By fighting, of course

That's a very fun what-if scenario. I always thought Tifa was motivated to train with Zangan partially because she didn't just want to be waiting around for her hero after Cloud left. But even if they had gotten together as kids, they both have so much unrealized potential and they're both so hilariously competitive with each other (as seen when they're playing Queen's Blood), that they probably would have ended up training with Zangan anyways. So maybe they would have stopped Sephiroth after all, just without all the pining and angst (but where's the fun in that!).

But yeah, I definitely think Tifa would beat the shit out of Cloud if he was her sparring partner. Every other battle in Rebirth, I'm thinking, wow, Cloud is lucky Tifa is so forgiving, because if they ever got into a fight, he'd be dead, lmao.

I was annoyed for the same exact thing, which probably will make me use that accessory on Tifa that just gives her access to her final tier limit automatically. Or i'll bench Yuffie for someone else, not sure yet.

Oh! I need to look into those accessories more. I just have her equipped with one that refreshes her ATB. I'm reluctant to bench Yuffie because her elemental ninjitsu is so useful for pressuring, so I'm kinda considering swapping out Cloud for someone else, but then again yeeting Tifa off Cloud's sword is pretty much my go-to move in every battle, so it's really a Sophie's Choice situation, haha.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

What ifs are fun Speaking of fanfic, I wish I could remember the name/author of one I read back in like 2020 or so. It was pretty much porn but I loved the way it examined Cloud and Tifa's interactions, in that in their version of events they're still awful at using words to communicate their feelings long after the OG (which seems true in AC/C and such). And they were not PDA people either. Which, naturally enough especially for two gorgeous people in their twenties, led to them confirming their mutual feelings without words many times a day when they're alone Like, on the bar while cleaning up after closing up 7th Heaven, again in the shower, and a couple times in the bedroom every night. It's kinda been my headcanon about those two ever since.

 

[Hellenic]

Oh! I need to look into those accessories more. I just have her equipped with one that refreshes her ATB. I'm reluctant to bench Yuffie because her elemental ninjitsu is so useful for pressuring, so I'm kinda considering swapping out Cloud for someone else, but then again yeeting Tifa off Cloud's sword is pretty much my go-to move in every battle, so it's really a Sophie's Choice situation, haha.

Yeah it's one of the

Spoiler

"ultimate" accessories you can craft/upgrade near the end of the game from doing the Tiny Bronco treasure hunting stuff.

There's one specifically that upgrades the accessory that raises limit level by 1 into one that grants the lvl 3 limit access right away, which would be the workaround for Tifa not having access to the limit level SA.

On the other hand i might also just bench Cloud himself now that i'm in hard anyway and bring in someone who can raise Tifas limit instead.

 

[alohana]

I think each pair of characters get two different SAs (though I haven't done Hard Mode yet so maybe there's a third one?). You can unlock both of Cloud/Tifa's fairly early. I'm kinda annoyed because my most-used party is Cloud/Tifa/Yuffie, and neither Cloud nor Yuffie have a SA with Tifa that raises Tifa's limit level LOL

Random Rebirth thought/question:

Spoiler

What did y'all think about Tifa's Trial during the Temple of the Ancients?

Red/Aerith/Yuffie were pretty straightforward recreations of the worst moments of their lives. Cloud's can be seen the same way, with the underlying subtext that Sephiroth is also implying that Cloud wasn't actually around for what should be the worst moment of his life: the Nibelheim Incident.

For Barret, you first have a happy memory of him and his wife, Myrna, before the worst moment of his life -- losing Myrna. I think this is partially for the audience's benefit so they know who this person is/what she means to him, before we see Barret losing her, so we have more context to his feelings in that moment.

So I wonder if the Water Tower Promise recreation is also meant to give further context to why the Nibelheim Incident is so devasting to Tifa. She sees her village burn down, her father murdered, but maybe the subtext we're meant to read is that in her heart of hearts, she believes that Cloud wasn't actually there for her in her worst moment like he had promised her?

Regardless, really loved it and thought it was a nice touch, especially Kid!Cloud guiding her to the reactor. So much Lifestream foreshadowing in this game!

Spoiler

My thoughts on the trials! (Minus Cloud, that was Sephiroth playing mind games) All the other's trails face a moment in time where they are experiencing the past in "past state" (ie, child Aerith looking for help; Freshly wounded Barret looking for Myrna). So young Cloud in burning Nibelhiem does not add up.

In the OG, when Cloud is handing the black materia to Sephiroth (and then doing .... whatever he is doing after pushing Aerith lol), we can see baby Cloud telling him to stop, attempting to pull him back. This does not happen at all, no sign of him anywhere, I'm fact it's actually insane the amount of authority Sephiroth has this time.

Since Tifa took a dip in the Lifestream a bit early this game, do you think he may have hitched a ride into her consciousness instead? In the OG, Cloud said he heard her calling out to him when the Lifestream was getting too much for her, and we see her calling out to him in this version too. People are also theorizing Tifa saw a moment of Cloud's POV, and I think this may be able to why she could if that's the case.

Also hello all! I'm sort of new? I have been lurking for days and pretty sure I had a different account here many moons ago during the AC Era lol. What that was idk anymore, but I think it's awesome this forum and club still exists

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Normally I'd say welcome an' shit, as was the style years ago, but if this is a return... Welcome back an' shit

 

[alohana]

Normally I'd say welcome an' shit, as was the style years ago, but if this is a return... Welcome back an' shit

Lmao thanks

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Part 3 will be released soon and this is gonna be the 'real' highlight of #cloti as the real Cloud and Tifa's true reunion. I'm hoping this is gonne be soley for them if you know what I mean. I'm very particular with LS and HW scene this is our most highlighted moments