Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

[Graymouse]

@minami758

I really love the frog and kid Cloud tweet. That is such a powerful image. So much emotion in that picture.

@insanehobbit Thank you again for a breakdown of that scene. This is one of my favorite scenes of the remake. Simply because it shows the emotional distance that these two have. When, I first played the game I picked up on the positioning and noticed it immediately what the game was visually trying to convey. It is really good especially if you know the history between the two characters. The thing is that it makes perfect sense because at that point of the game they were just starting to get used to being around each other again.

Another great scene that uses distance to convey emotions is the scene later that night at Star Gazers Heights after Cloud came back from Jessie's mission. Of course we all know that this is the scene that Cloud remembers on his promise to Tifa.

Interestingly enough, and now that I am actually thinking about it, I believe this is the last scene that when TIfa and Cloud are in the same frame that there was that much "space" between them. When Cloud and Tifa were together on the screen for the rest of the game they were not positioned as far apart from each other in that way ever again. I believe this could symbolize that the emotional distance between the two have significantly diminished.

I've come to the conclusion that Tifa may be called a wonder woman only for the reason that her skirt always remains on her hips and never slides upwards to her waistline. Or maybe it's the suspenders that do the trick? I wish I could wear skirts so easily without having to adjust them all the time!

Either that or she is wearing black yoga pants underneath.


and of course, I have to drop a few tweets here:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284636667291340800

I could imagine this being their wedding outfits!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284676313316384768

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284821355339190272

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284486406446780416

Classic anime' style twin tail with a piece of bread in her mouth. Love it!

 

[Eerie]

I really love the frog and kid Cloud tweet

just to say, it's not a frog, it's Tifa's sandal :') But yeah I agree, it's a really powerful one for such a simple style!

 

[Graymouse]

just to say, it's not a frog, it's Tifa's sandal :') But yeah I agree, it's a really powerful one for such a simple style!

Oh my, I guess I need to get my eyes checked! Ha! The image is even better now!

 

[Yumelinh]

Me, walking in on another great insanehobbit™ visual analysis: yes, this is good food.

I second that!! Thanks once again @insanehobbit =))

Nothing good to add either so I'll leave some goodies from twitter as well:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284179711048835072

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284060370273886209

 

[shersita007]

just to say, it's not a frog, it's Tifa's sandal :') But yeah I agree, it's a really powerful one for such a simple style!

lmao, sorry but, I laughed my heart out with this, is a sandal and I also though it was a frog

 

[Graymouse]

Good Evening everyone. Apparently I am the steward of the thread to make sure that someone posts here to celebrate everything about our Goddess Tifa at least once a day.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285279960836579331

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285017958704730112

I didn't really notice that Cloud really focused in or Tifa during the train roll.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285235217406423040

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285221657553051656

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283629182757433345

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284429611951153152

 

[odekopeko]

This is beautiful, just beautiful! Our Muscle King and Queen placing 1st and 2nd. Not sure why Famitsu said they tied.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285591392832507905

 

[minami758]

King and Queen! Lol Famitsu ships it. They also had a feature before the Remake came out where the back-to-back photo of Cloud and Tifa was used for Cloud's profile and it said "side-by-side, these two childhood friends walk toward the future," or something.

Also, Anna is all of us:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285614203534024710

 

[Stiggie]

It's definitely an opening for a scene that refers to the promise between the two (and as you showed it ends with the same fan). Tifa refers to it even. When I read your first line, that's the first thing I thought about, without even reading the rest "oh that's a tease for the promise scene".

I think, the fact that Cloud remembers the promise on his own later in ch4 is something that closes a little that gap we see; it reassures Tifa that he's the real Cloud, as well as reassures her that he won't leave her unprompted. I think that's why I enjoy so much this fact, despite the random placement, it's because it was brilliant for cloti; first we see Cloud doesn't remember and Tifa is left pondering - then he remembers and tells her he's staying and it makes her just so happy. It's also great because we see him starting to care about the Avalanche trio in ch4, so it reinforces what Tifa is saying, taht he's starting to lose that hard edge she dedspised so much earlier. Character growth-wise, it's really important and while it seemed random at first, it was definitely carefully crafted and thought out.

The first half of chapter4 is basically the only truly new parts that I really like, because like you said, it really helps the story and feels like it should always have happened. I still don't like the fights inside the base though, those really felt like a sad attempt at padding, I mean honestly, we're not even entering the factory? When we found the guards unconscious I expected this to really tie into some new stuff, but not really, just Avalanche somehow knocking out the guards then coming in to save us 20 minutes later for some weird reason.
But yeah, did wonders for the trio and for Cloti. I just wish the chapter where you enter deepground had done something similar.
Honestly, I just don't get that chapter, we've gotten the chance to meet people from sector 7 in chapter 3, so why isn't the chapter after the plot drop about helping those people and seeing them suffer and die?

Honestly, I wish Marle died, dig in that knife. Can you imagine the number of emotional scenes with Tifa we COULD have had?
And how much more powerful would Tifa and Barrets resolutions scenes have been if we'd just spent some more time with their loved ones, and if we'd failed at saving them.
Why doesn't Wymar lose a leg or something? The only really good part about that chapter IMO is the start where you help a woman from some wreckage, that's what that chapter should have been, saving what little we could from the wreckage of sector 7.

 

[odekopeko]

Honestly, I wish Marle died, dig in that knife. Can you imagine the number of emotional scenes with Tifa we COULD have had?

Marle to Stiggie:


To be honest, I'm glad she made it. She can easily knock some sense into Cloud, and can surprisingly get him to own up to stuff when it comes to Tifa. Also, why does it feel like it would take more than a plate fall to get rid of that woman?

 

[Eerie]

Honestly, multplying emotional scenes with Tifa wouldn't have done good to her character. You need balance in a game, and Tifa was alerady scarred so much that her facade cracked in front of Cloud. There's so much one can take, IMHO. More and she would have gotten criticised for it too. Balance is key in a story!

 

[Ite]

Honestly, multplying emotional scenes with Tifa wouldn't have done good to her character. You need balance in a game, and Tifa was alerady scarred so much that her facade cracked in front of Cloud. There's so much one can take, IMHO. More and she would have gotten criticised for it too. Balance is key in a story!

No adding scenes, but if Tifa’s life actually had been ruined (instead of just inconvenienced) there would be more weight behind “they took everything from us”

 

[odekopeko]

I think for Tifa, being a survivor meant a lot of her emotions may have been invested in rebuilding her "home" in Sector 7. Having her bar there may have been a symbol of her resilience against Shinra. So when it was completely destroyed, it must have been a huge blow to her. I agree that feeling the "absence" of familiar faces would probably hit home more, but that's what I took from it.

Having Cloud promise to help her and Barret rebuild it later, while the sun was setting over Midgar, heightened that moment for me emotionally. I felt I was meant to see that as a sign of hope for their future. (Also in The Turks Novel, they did successfully rebuild Seventh Heaven.)

 

[insanehobbit]

Ah gotta love our girl transcending the laws of space and time and Arabic numerals to tie for first.

I dunno man, she already lost (or thinks she's lost) two of her closest friends, her business and home, not sure what losing her surrogate Grandma would add. Plus she gets to suffer so much more in the future! Gotta parse it out a bit.

A few moments in the Remake I still have no idea what they were going for:

• The water pump thing in the sewers. Why was Tifa so insistent that Aerith be the one to help her instead of Cloud? I thought they would at least have a little chat, but nada, just another mini-game for me to be terrible at
• Shinra Building air ducts. Why have only Tifa join Cloud? Is having Barret there that much more unrealistic than a giant vent that appears to fit two people comfortably? Or is Tifa's fear of the men's restroom a bit of characterization the game thought we really needed to know?
• When Aerith/Barret/Red are heading down the elevators before the Arsenal fight. Red asks if Cloud and Tifa will be okay. Barret answers "You've seen them both in action. You know they can. Besides --" before he's cut off. It's obviously not about their physical prowess, which he already answered, so what on could he possibly have wanted to say? Watch it be something super mundane like 'Oh yes, and Tifa is the responsible one so she realized we needed getaway vehicles'

 

[Yumelinh]

How to make my fav scene even better? Like this \/

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285629176716853253

 

[Eerie]

Ahah yeah, I was going to post that:
From this interview

Kitase: I handled the early level design for the top floor of the Shinra building (the president’s office and the helipad.) The scene where Cloud, about to fall, is saved by Tifa - this is an answer scene to the scene in the 5th Mako reactor when Tifa couldn’t save Cloud.

This is nice~~

 

[odekopeko]

The water pump thing in the sewers. Why was Tifa so insistent that Aerith be the one to help her instead of Cloud? I thought they would at least have a little chat, but nada, just another mini-game for me to be terrible at

If Cloud goes to help her, that means leaving Aerith alone and vulnerable. I think she was more worried about Aerith's safety than Cloud's at that point. Cloud also made it seem like he knew his stuff, so it made sense for him to stay there at the controls. But even if she sent Cloud with Aerith, he'd just worry too much about her. What we got was probably the most ideal setup.

 

[Graymouse]

No adding scenes, but if Tifa’s life actually had been ruined (instead of just inconvenienced) there would be more weight behind “they took everything from us”

I am sorry, and maybe I read this wrong but I wouldn't call having your father killed by Sephrioth and your home town burned to ashes and everyone in it killed except Cloud and herself, being inconvenienced. That girl's life was DESTROYED! That line "they took everything from us, again." Had several million metric tons of weight behind it. The little amount of hope of some normalcy in her life that she clung onto was destroyed when Sector 7 plate came crashing down. She has nothing left. Except Cloud...

 

[JT77fp]

WhenAerith/Barret/Red are heading down the elevators before the Arsenal fight. Red asks if Cloud and Tifa will be okay. Barret answers "You've seen them both in action. You know they can. Besides --" before he's cut off. It's obviously not about their physical prowess, which he already answered, so what on could he possibly have wanted to say? Watch it be something super mundane like 'Oh yes, and Tifa is the responsible one so she realized we needed getaway vehicles'

Haha, she could've chosen something with 4 wheels though! But I thought Barret meant to say, "Besides, we've got to worry about ourselves". Cue Arsenal.

No adding scenes, but if Tifa’s life actually had been ruined (instead of just inconvenienced) there would be more weight behind “they took everything from us”

I still think that losing one's home carries plenty of emotional weight, not to mention the perceived loss of Biggs and Jessie. I'd cry too if someone squashed my house!

But more broadly speaking, I do agree that the emotional impact of the Sector 7 plate falling has been vastly diminished. It's implied that lots of people still died, but the familiar faces like Marle, Betty and Wymer, whom the player has connected with, are still alive. I remember almost being in tears experiencing this part in the OG, especially with Barret breaking down. It felt so...final.

This also presents a future problem for Tifa's development in the later parts. Will she still tell Cloud that she has nobody left to visit? What about her foster grandma? Maybe Cloud spends a night under the Highwind by himself, with just their gold Chocobo in the stables for company!

 

[Ite]

I still think that losing one's home carries plenty of emotional weight, not to mention the perceived loss of Biggs and Jessie. I'd cry too if someone squashed my house!

She didn't lose her home, though, the sign just got broken. There was maybe 1000 gil in damages, and not a single named bystander died. And the community was fixing the bar for free while handing out soup to boot. "They took everything from us" becomes dramatic irony because, as was revealed, they really fuckin didn't.

This is the CloTi thread so I'm happy to move this to the Frustration Thread. My salt has been scattered everywhere recently.

 

[minami758]

Popping in to add some Cloti to your day, courtesy of the new Famitsu feature:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285956785296207872

Full Kitase interview, but wanted to highlight this particular segment:



I personally (and hitting myself for not catching it!) didn't make this connection, so love to see that Kitase intended for the Shinra rooftop scene to be a callback to Reactor 5.

Full Nomura interview:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285833317250592768

Wanted to highlight this part:



I like that they recognize there are misinterpretations of the characters and interactions from the OG (of which I think SE themselves have some fault for exacerbating some of those misinterpretations over the years) and might be actively working to clarify some things.

Also some fan-favorite scenes (not all of them, there were a lot of Cloti fan favorites!):

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285803762884329472

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285913847069437953

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285860977498443776

As well as the comment about the train roll (above) from Anna-san, lol.

 

[Stiggie]

Honestly, multplying emotional scenes with Tifa wouldn't have done good to her character. You need balance in a game, and Tifa was alerady scarred so much that her facade cracked in front of Cloud. There's so much one can take, IMHO. More and she would have gotten criticised for it too. Balance is key in a story!

It wouldn't necessarily just be Tifa focused though, Barret is there for one, and he has people to talk about in his resolution. And not each scene needs to be as explicitly emotional as Tifa and Jessie. But a general air of contemplation and realization as we actually have to traverse the ruins of sector 7 and get to terms with what has happened would be a better way to bridge the time from the plate drop to the resolution scene than the tonal disconnect that is "deep ground".
I felt like I was ripped away from an emotional state, only to be expected to be in that state again suddenly at the start of 14. Right now, I think NO chapter 13 would have been a better transition than what we got, even though there were clearly things that could be done in chapter 13 that would be relevant to the plot and be emotionally consistent.

 

[Graymouse]

Popping in to add some Cloti to your day, courtesy of the new Famitsu feature:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285956785296207872

Full Kitase interview, but wanted to highlight this particular segment:

View attachment 7211

I personally (and hitting myself for not catching it!) didn't make this connection, so love to see that Kitase intended for the Shinra rooftop scene to be a callback to Reactor 5.

Full Nomura interview:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285833317250592768

Wanted to highlight this part:

View attachment 7212

I like that they recognize there are misinterpretations of the characters and interactions from the OG (of which I think SE themselves have some fault for exacerbating some of those misinterpretations over the years) and might be actively working to clarify some things.

Also some fan-favorite scenes (not all of them, there were a lot of Cloti fan favorites!):

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285803762884329472

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285913847069437953

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285860977498443776

As well as the comment about the train roll (above) from Anna-san, lol.

That interview was great. I really like the fact that Kitase-san was talking about how Tifa saves Cloud on top of the Shinra building as a call-back to the Reactor 5 scene where Tifa couldn't save him. I didn't really think that could be the case because in the OG Tifa did stay behind and wait for Cloud to come back after fighting with Rufus. So, that is what I initially thought that scene in the Remake was about. I love how they expanded on the scene in the Remake! What other things with Cloud X Tifa will be expanded on in the future? Can't wait to find out!

I also, would like to comment on what Nomura-san said about players misinterpretations of the characters in the OG. It is amazing on how much technology has changed since the mid 90's. Facial expressions and voice acting in the Remake can really tell the story. I am really looking forward to seeing how certain things turn out. I hope that they will finally leave no doubt and/or anything up to the players interpretations.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285658549977329665

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285379542069186562

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285812527922741248

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285507339093553154

 

[insanehobbit]

But I thought Barret meant to say, "Besides, we've got to worry about ourselves". Cue Arsenal.

Oh god, you're totally right. It seems so obvious now. After Kitase's comments about the intended parallels between Sector 5 reactor and the Shinra building, since Barret had seen how devastated Tifa was when she thought she couldn't save Cloud the first time (plus the fact that he tells straight up tells Cloud a couple of times to go to her because she'll worry about him otherwise), I had assumed that he was going to say something along those lines to Red. But now that I have taken off my shipper goggles for 2 seconds, what you said makes much more sense.

I actually thought the aftermath of the Sector 7 plate collapse was much more effective in the Remake than the OG, simply because we spent so much more time with in Sector 7 in Ch. 3 + 4, and also because we had time to actually sit with that loss rather than immediately go into infiltrating the Shinra building. I also don't think it was a bad choice to keep the NPCs we got to know alive. They were rushing back to stop the plate from falling, but barring that, they were trying to evacuate as many people as possible. Marle and Wymer are pillars of the community so it makes sense they would be among the ones to survive, and of course, Aerith is the one who saves Betty. I guess we have the trade off of making Aerith & Wedge's sacrifice more meaningful while diminishing Tifa and Barret's pain, though I dunno, maybe I'm just a simple person, but I'd still be pretty devastated if my house burned down even if all of my loved ones made it out alive.

Good point about the Highwind scene. Though, I wonder if we'll actually have a chance to revisit the rest of the Midgar when the Midgar Raid from Disc 2 happens, so I imagine Tifa would see Marle then. Regardless, even if she still has a "home" she can go back to she knows that Cloud doesn't really have anywhere else to go, and at the end of the day, she would want to be with him. (Ugh, they love each other so much it's gross!)

 

[JT77fp]

Oh god, you're totally right. It seems so obvious now. After Kitase's comments about the intended parallels between Sector 5 reactor and the Shinra building, since Barret had seen how devastated Tifa was when she thought she couldn't save Cloud the first time (plus the fact that he tells straight up tells Cloud a couple of times to go to her because she'll worry about him otherwise), I had assumed that he was going to say something along those lines to Red. But now that I have taken off my shipper goggles for 2 seconds, what you said makes much more sense.

Well there you go. One minute you're the mature one is this place; enriching us with your media industry experience, giving us lessons on screenplay. Next minute, you've accidentally gone out in public with your shipper goggles on!

I actually thought the aftermath of the Sector 7 plate collapse was much more effective in the Remake than the OG, simply because we spent so much more time with in Sector 7 in Ch. 3 + 4, and also because we had time to actually sit with that loss rather than immediately go into infiltrating the Shinra building. I also don't think it was a bad choice to keep the NPCs we got to know alive.

There's been a lot of talk in other threads about the changes from OG to 7R. I actually agree a lot with what @Mr. Ite has written there (although I wish he'd come back to explain the meaning of 'Aeriths Tinkerbell sidekick' - I didn't get that one!). I'd classify some changes as being unnecessary and really messy - mainly around the ending. Some are great, like exploring Sector 7 with Tifa and the reimagined wall market. The remainder are a double edged sword. I'd put the Sector 7 platefall into the latter.

Revisiting the sector and finding survivors definitely eased the pain of loss compared to OG, but had a message of hope and all the other positives you mentioned. I'm not going to argue either way, just pointing out that FF7's story is rather intricately woven in terms of each character's perspective of events and their motives. Marle surviving is an example of how ANY change to FF7's original story can have ripple effects on character development and plot consistency later on. If Tifa stays with Cloud at the Highwind because she has nowhere else to go, that statement would now be seen as false. So Cloti fans, if y'all want your Highwind scene, I'm sorry but Marle. Has. To. Die.

I'm joking, please don't kill me!