Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

[frosty]

Even the domestic troubles portrayed in CoT and AC remind me of, you know.... marriage.

I guess a movie about marriage troubles, doesn't quite make for good shipping / squealing, if people were looking for an epic love story

Isn't the novella before the film?

The novella was set before the film, but chronologically, it was written after the first iteration of advent children was released.
Advent Children was launched 2005, Advent Children Complete + Novellas were released in 2009. Nojima was probably asked to explain CoT and what he thought happened after ACC.

I think this site has written about his comments here:
https://thelifestream.net/lifestrea...gle-of-ffvii-an-analysis-by-squall_of_seed/2/

I'm sad that how some times people, to reinforce Clerith, overlook the fact that Zack is also part of the grief that grips Cloud.

I'm just sad that it seems, on a lot of places discussing Remake, you can't even talk about Cloud in relation to other characters, director's intent / author's purpose without someone jumping in and saying BuT AEriTH or bUT TiFA. =/

 

[Humming]

I'm just sad that it seems, on a lot of places discussing Remake, you can't even talk about Cloud in relation to other characters, director's intent / author's purpose without someone jumping in and saying BuT AEriTH or bUT TiFA. =/

It is a common idea in a lot of fandoms, to negate every other connection a character have to non romantic interests, but fortunately only a little group of shippers have this mindset.

About the novella and the link, I read the entire analysis and it's very well done. What kind of let me down about Nojima's statement is how he portrays Denzel and Marlene as the (only?) possible solution to make Cloud and Tifa's relationship work out in the end. Maybe if a conflictive relationship can only survive for the sake of the kids, is not meant to be. Maybe Nojima is a bit traditional (no clue about this) and have the perception of marriages as needing to stick together for the sake of the offspring.

But also, if we take into account what we have seen about Cloud and Tifa so far, not as romantic interests but as complex characters, I think it's fairly safe to view Nojima's words as an explanation of how Denzel and Marlene are just the key to help two bad communicators to start sharing their feelings more openly. At least it's what would make more sense to me given my limited knowledge of these characters, but the words of the creators must be heard as facts, so this is why I'm unsure about what he wanted to say with that statement about the kids. To sum it up, it became a doomed relationship that would survive just because they have kids in charge, or it just another stone in the road of a realistic relationship?

My opinion is the latter, mostly because as adults Cloud and Tifa seem to still be the same dumbasses that struggle to voice their feelings, each one in its own way.

 

[Eerie]

But also, if we take into account what we have seen about Cloud and Tifa so far, not as romantic interests but as complex characters, I think it's fairly safe to view Nojima's words as an explanation of how Denzel and Marlene are just the key to help two bad communicators to start sharing their feelings more openly. At least it's what would make more sense to me given my limited knowledge of these characters, but the words of the creators must be heard as facts, so this is why I'm unsure about what he wanted to say with that statement about the kids. To sum it up, it became a doomed relationship that would survive just because they have kids in charge, or it just another stone in the road of a realistic relationship?

Yup, this is exactly it. Cloud and Tifa are bad at expressing themselves, and this is why the kids help them go through that. It's also why the scene in ACC where Tifa scolds Cloud is very important; for the first time, because the kids are in danger, she voices her feelings. And the scolding is important to Cloud, who realises his mistake, and goes to save them. The kids are what make Tifa rant, and her ranting is what sets Cloud in motion. Tifa is always the one who sets the motions with Cloud, that was true when they were kids, that is still true in ACC. They are a young couple, who are learning how to be parents, how to cope with the loss of a dear friend, dealing with everything they've done to help the planet - including mako reactors explosions and the plate fall. They're living with sins and trying to amend, but life isn't easy.

The fact that in DoC they are still together living happily shows that they are managing and that this tough situation is behind them.

 

[Humming]

I see, I completely forgot about DoC and them. Looks like I was reading Nojima's statement in such a gloomy way, thanks for the insight @Eerie !

 

[KindOfBlue]

I see, I completely forgot about DoC and them. Looks like I was reading Nojima's statement in such a gloomy way, thanks for the insight @Eerie !

I took Nojima’s statement to mean that even if
a crisis involving Sephiroth and geostigma weren’t factors, Cloud would still fall into depression over his fears and guilt involving Aerith and Zack…

The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud…
- FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Cloud Strife profile, pg. 36-41

…but ultimately, the kids and the experience they share during AC are things that help bring them closer as overcoming conflict together can make bonds stronger. After all…

“Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together. Everybody would be back home where they belonged.”
Nojima, FFVII AC Reunion Files, pg. 70

 

[JT77fp]

My opinion is the latter, mostly because as adults Cloud and Tifa seem to still be the same dumbasses that struggle to voice their feelings, each one in its own way.

Is that really a problem specific to Cloud and Tifa though? As I was saying before, their problems will probably be very familiar to anyone who has moved in with a domestic partner, who have had to learn to communicate and work through frustrations with each other! That's perhaps why Nojima was being coy with his "views on love or marriage or family"; maybe he's projecting personal experiences in his writing (I've no idea if he has a family or spouse though).

I took his statement to mean that even without geostigma, both Cloud and Tifa (not just Cloud) have difficulties in adjusting to domestic life, being young with so little experience in their own relationship, while being dunked with two kids and becoming instant parents! Sure, some readers may think that this means their love for each other can't be very strong. It's no fairy tale love story, like Eerie pointed out. But to those readers who've actually raised kids, this is simply normal... and they're actually doing a rather good job as parents.

Talk to any mother for 10 mins and she'll voice concerns about whether her child is falling behind, making the right friends, spending enough time with dad....Every single insecurity voiced by Tifa in CoT is instantly relatable for any parent! Personally, I think that this was a good premise to begin the sequel. Pity the rest of the storytelling didn't live up to most people's expectations.

In terms of resolution, Tifa's biggest character growth in ACC is probably letting go a bit of her worry. Trusting Cloud to solve problems himself instead of trying to control them all. Pity her new laid back attitude resulted in Cloud getting skewered by Sephy (again), but oh well.

Cloud's resolution was obviously in accepting help from his friends (including the dead ones) and his family. But the little tidbit at the end where he calls Tifa and suggests they take a holiday together also shows him being a bit more attuned to her interests. This is a critically important lesson that every man learns at some point or other in his relationship: "happy wife, happy life!"

I guess a movie about marriage troubles, doesn't quite make for good shipping / squealing, if people were looking for an epic love story

You mean like the hotness that is Bob and Helen Parr? Aka Mr and Mrs Incredible?

 

[Humming]

I took Nojima’s statement to mean that even if
a crisis involving Sephiroth and geostigma weren’t factors, Cloud would still fall into depression over his fears and guilt involving Aerith and Zack…

Now that you put it again I get it, lmao. I thought that he meant that Cloud would fall into depression even without Sephirot's actions in the first game (like Aerith's death), so even in a stable future with Tifa (or not her) Cloud would need to adress his mental state. I understand now, Nojima meant that Aerith and Zack's deaths would affect him even without Geostigma amd Sephi's last cry for attention. I feel dumb now

@JT77fp ACC surely does paint a different picture if you have knowledge about most of the Ultimania statements, which I don't hahaha. Sucks to be new to the fandom because after such a long story 99.999% of the stuff has been discussed already, but anyway as I'm going to the tidbits of info from these interviews, I still feel that from a narrative point of view ACC could have done a better job. I don't mean that it's bad, tho!

 

[frosty]

I see, I completely forgot about DoC and them. Looks like I was reading Nojima's statement in such a gloomy way, thanks for the insight @Eerie !

And also, even though "The Kids are Alright" book is set in the same timeline as Advent Children, it was written few years after ACC was launched, and after Dirge. Cloud himself reinforces in "The Kids Are Alright" that he is:

a) Going home after the church ending scene in AC
b) That him, Tifa, Denzel and Marlene are very much a family just like Evan and Kyrie and Vits (who ARE also an established couple with an adopted kid)

I just feel it says a lot when Nojima chooses to stick to this narrative in a later piece of work, and to reinforce that Cloud is committed to overcoming his issues with his family.

Also as a side note, since I was re-reading The Kids Are Alright to brush up on my FF7 lore, the book is actually really consistent with FF7R and the rest of the compilation!

• Leslie's girlfriend is described as having short hair - and in the tiny scene she had in FF7R she really does have short hair!
• Tifa calls Aerith more than a dear friend - Makes me wonder if all the AerTi was well pre-planned out for FF7R
• Tifa being proud when Evan praises the details on the map she shows him on how to get to Nibelhiem - Even if it wasn't explicitly mentioned, we know Cloud charted those maps from COT
• Her telling Evan with confidence that "I have Cloud" when he worries he's gotten her into trouble with Corneo
• The consistency of Don Coreno's room having a camera in FF7R

And also...

I wrapped my arms around Kyrie’s back, and pulled her close. “Don’t worry about it.”

I heard a muffled voice coming from my chest. “Thank goodness…”

It was like the end of an adventure. That’s how it felt. Never mind about my mother. As long as Kyrie’s here, that’s all that matters. What more do I want? I want to convey this feeling to her, but, not in words…

Look! Another blonde guy that wants to convey a complex feeling...without words

You mean like the hotness that is Bob and Helen Parr? Aka Mr and Mrs Incredible?

Didn't they also work out their issues with their kids...and at one point Helen Parr was worried Bob was cheating on her, but he was really just moping about not being a hero anymore?

 

[Eerie]

Tifa calls Aerith more than a dear friend - Makes me wonder if all the AerTi was well pre-planned out for FF7R

Just to quote that quickly, in the OG Aerith and Tifa really are BFF. It's easy to miss because of the blocky characters, but when they're not in your group they often hang out together, for exemple in lower Junon. So it's something that did not really shine in the OG but was already there.

Also, @Humming, don't worry about wanting to discuss something we already did! In all honestly, bringing in a fresh air is often a good way to have a new look on a scene, to reinterprate it or reinforce our opinion on it. There are plenty of things to discuss regarding cloti scenes in Remake, some things I have thought about and never shared anywhere else beyond a few friends in twitter for example (since my account is locked).

It's always great to chat a bit, and personnally, I'm quite happy because it was quiet here (hence why I only talked to a few friends, or I would be double/triple posting here all the time lol ^^').

 

[KindOfBlue]

@JT77fp ACC surely does paint a different picture if you have knowledge about most of the Ultimania statements, which I don't hahaha. Sucks to be new to the fandom because after such a long story 99.999% of the stuff has been discussed already, but anyway as I'm going to the tidbits of info from these interviews, I still feel that from a narrative point of view ACC could have done a better job. I don't mean that it's bad, tho!

I was in a very similar situation a year ago being new to the franchise, unfortunately there’s a lot of shipping war nonsense to wade through online but I found myself appreciating what they were going for after seeing the creators’ own words on the matter lol

 

[Humming]

As @frosty said, there are lots of family interactions better portrayed than ACC. While I loved details like Tifa's wolf ring being shown casually, I wish they just settle things by showing their room. People would still argue that they are friends or whatever (hell, even now I've seen some sites denying the Highwind scene as a confession), but it would be a stronger point than the ring thing and their expressions and gestures through the film. For example, Naughty Dog's Uncharted saga shows

Spoiler: Spoiler

how Nate and Helena work through their shit and Nate's habit of lying to Helena to seek adventure. I know it's not the same as struggling against depression like Cloud's case, but hey if you want to show how a couple live after the game, you need to show clearly where they are mentally in the relationship (I don't know how to say this in english), how they build their solution, and if it works or not.

I'll still argue that ACC weakest point is the lack of a longer end scene. After all, it's undenyable that the film was fanservice too, but if they wanted to bring Cloud and Tifa's relationship to the screen (it wasn't the main point of the film but is connected to it), they better settle it as the film is the last big event for the OG. DoC has nothing to do with them, the novellas are little reinforcements of lore, the film was the perfect moment to shout THEY WORKED THROUGH IT, CLOUD IS GOING TO THERAPY, instead of kinda mumble it.

@KindOfBlue I usually avoid Twitter or Tumblr because some user are really toxic and aggresive but sometimes I casually dive there and find some great content. It's like a double edge sword hahaha

@Eerie Oh please don't hesitate to share it! We have a loooong way until part 2 comes. Personally I have high hopes in FFXVI to ease the waiting as I casually played FFXIV and Yoshi-P is the GOAT, but my veins ask for more FFVII lmao.

 

[Eerie]

@Humming The problem is, what do you know versus what do we know? For example, soon there will be a new Ultimania released for Intergrade, and we know it mentioned that in chapter 1, Cloud's memory of little!Tifa is modified because while we see her calling him out, the Ultimania says that she did not notice Cloud. So it's very interesting to look at, because of everything it entails (re:Jenova controlling him and his desire to be noticed by Tifa), but did you already read about that or not yet? Also, did you find the posts I told you about?

 

[Humming]

@Humming The problem is, what do you know versus what do we know? For example, soon there will be a new Ultimania released for Intergrade, and we know it mentioned that in chapter 1, Cloud's memory of little!Tifa is modified because while we see her calling him out, the Ultimania says that she did not notice Cloud. So it's very interesting to look at, because of everything it entails (re:Jenova controlling him and his desire to be noticed by Tifa), but did you already read about that or not yet? Also, did you find the posts I told you about?

Yeah, I think that you comented it yourself in this same thread? I'm not entirely sure, I know I read it somewhere in this thread. It was the way that 'memory' is portrayed that hinted towards it being made up? Cloud didn't show headache in that cutscene. Also yeah, I read @insanehobbit posts analysing the way the remake uses the cinematic shots and every point of view to tell or show certain things and give depth to some scenes. It was really interesting because it was like attending to a certain class in college lol. I also checked a bunch of Ultimanias and Seed_of_Squall's analysis twice (sorry not sorry, it was a fine read).

At the moment, I'm tying to find the time to read this (I suppose is the same insanehobbit that posted here):
https://insanehobbit.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F641149944268488706
I'm curious about Zerith too, but also cautious because I suppose that Zack being alive can be a huge red herring and they will kill him again and make me suffer. There are so many possibilities.

 

[Eerie]

Yes, it's the same insanehobbit! We will have soon new material to go through, since there will be a new Ultimania and a novel centered around Aerith and Tifa, which I suppose happen between the events of Nibelheim and up until they meet with Cloud (train station for Tifa and chapter 2 of the game for Aerith).

In the meantime, a quick question to everyone, because I've seen that clotis think that in twitter: how do you believe that Tifa will react to Cloud telling his story? I've seen people believing that Tifa would be putting distance again between her and Cloud, but I do not believe this is the case.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I've seen people believing that Tifa would be putting distance again between her and Cloud, but I do not believe this is the case.

I dunno if she ever really put distance between them, just being really careful with him…if anything, putting distance between her and Cloud would kind of be counterintuitive to her wanting to find out what’s wrong with him

 

[frosty]

there will be a new Ultimania and a novel centered around Aerith and Tifa

This is probably the only reason why I'm on and off coming back to these forums - because I'm keen to see the translations! Do you now when it will be released?

I dunno if she ever really put distance between them, just being really careful with him…if anything, putting distance between her and Cloud would kind of be counterintuitive to her wanting to find out what’s wrong with him

Same thought. For the Northern Crater to make sense (if they're sticking to the OG), for Cloud to say that it's Tifa's opinion that counts / get a mental breakdown because she doesn't validate his identity, the story would have to emphasize Tifa's importance, not sideline or distance her.

I think for myself, what I'd like to see is after Kalm, Tifa would be troubled by Cloud's patchy retelling of the Nibelheim incident and make timid efforts to verify their individual accounts. I honestly think it's kinda funny both Aerith and Tifa don't say something about the buster sword, since they both should know it belonged to Zack, but it could just be SE's iffy writing.

Perhaps the scene in Junon, where Cloud wonders why he didn't reconnect with Tifa 5 years ago, might have a bit more expansion to show Cloud making attempts to connect further. I'd like their Gold Saucer date (if it happens) to be more of Tifa trying to tell Cloud about the "Real" Cloud and failing, not so much a botched confession of feelings like in the OG...because it seems too early for that. The date should be more to lead the audience to feel "Tifa knows something, but what?"

Then the whole Northern Crater section will be more impactful, cos Cloud now realizes the person he's grown to trust withheld key information all this while and he can have his big "Was everything I knew a lie?" moment that pushes him off the edge.

That's just my preference though, cos I feel that it would pace things out better in a more conventional story telling arc i.e. Part 1: They meet / people around them hinthintnudgenudge and play up the "Will they or won't they". Part 2 should build more on the "Lets give the characters some internal / external conflict to keep increasing desire and obstacles. Northern crater will be the Big Crisis Moment. Then Part 3 can be the good ol' conflict resolution / big feels in the Lifestream sequence, and Highwind the yay they can finally be together.

More curious how they will treat the Gold Saucer date mechanics, because unlike chapter 14 which is good for character development, but skippable in terms of plot...both women should have Important Things to try to tell Cloud about his real/fake personality on their respective dates.

Also, since FF7R doesn't allow you to be mean to either women, I don't want the mechanics to rely on random fetch quests

 

[Eerie]

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see it that way; to me both lines "I chose to believe in you" from Tifa and "Only Tifa's opinion that counts" or something alike are the two leitmotivs until the Northern Crater. We can already see it in part 1, with Tifa being surprised by the "5 years" but chosing to not bring it up and stay by his side, and Cloud clearly seeking her approval (think about the life lessons! but also that save at the top of the Shinra tower, with his reaction to her supporting words).

I don't see that changing. It's their dynamic. What I'd like to see, personally, after Cloud tells his story in Kalm, is a chat between both Tifa and Aerith. To me that would be the key to explain why they BOTH chose to shut up - especially since Aerith saw Zack with Cloud in a vision, and she really wants to know what happened to him. We know that in the OG there was a plan to show them talking about Zack, and deciding to not tell anything to Cloud, so I'd like to see that earlier.

However, @frosty I would say that it makes sense to me that the GS date for cloti is about her trying to tell him her feelings. Cloti is a crescendo, and the devs will have to show that the feelings between them are of romantic nature *before* the Northern Crater. They have to add "romance" to the mix; so far in the Remake, we have seen sexual tension, flirtiness, deep care, partnership, fighting buddies. To tell that iconic line under the Highwind, Tifa needs to see by herself that... she definitely can't confess by using words. Voicing her true feelings is too hard - showing them is easier to her. Also I think the GS date will be completely changed, and possibly NOT in the next game but the one after - if this is a 4 parts game as I suspect, then the fun chapter will happen more at Costa del Sol.

 

[Humming]

I don't know if they will be willing to have Tifa distance herself from Cloud more. If they divide the game in 3 parts, maybe they will make her do it (at least for a chunk of it), but if they divide the remake in 4 I doubt they will drag this on. I'm not a fan of them making 4 parts because probably it will end up with a new generation as ps4 to 5 were roughly 7 seven years of difference (oh shit, 7 again?). So, in this, I agree with @frosty or at least it's my preference: a 3 parts remake.

With the remake they've already shown that they're are not afraid of making Cloud and Tifa have physical contact, and the gorgeous facial expressions the crew have in remake, they have more options than Tifa notoriously pushing herself away from interacting with Cloud. Some reluctant lines, awkward looks and gestures at Cloud's story and afterwards can be enough to show Tifa's conflict. Also, in part 1 they already made the effort of showing how the 2 used to stand at a bit of distance and unconsciusly started to get physically closer in some scenes. Tifa's sitting in 7th Heaven to drink with Cloud and express her doubts remind me of men's bathroom when someone's already there and you get to the other corner to pee because you feel uncomfortable.

Jokes aside, nurturing Clerith in part 2 would be natural imho and at the same time it would serve to kind of sideline Tifa's relationship with Cloud when his story starts to crumble, but I don't think they need to go further than making clear that the whole thing is weird even though Tifa and Cloud are still closer than before. The more I read, the more I like the fact that Aerith gets that Cloud is faking because of her supernatural awareness in contrast to Tifa really getting him because they are, well, naturally connected, but it's too careful to not scare him away.

Edited because a lot of typos, sorry.

 

[Eerie]

It’s going to be at least a 4 parts game, so we have a lot to see still. They are going to make a lot of changes - so it’s really going to be interesting to see the differences and things they’ll add in the next years! I think the next game is going to be important because it will give the roadmap to the general feeling of the Cloud and Tifa relationship up until the Northern Crater. So I’m really curious about how they’re going to show it up. It’s kind of an important moment in their relationship, where they already have built something - the start of a partnership - but there is something odd at work too.

 

[Graymouse]

Good Afternoon all, I have found some nice fan art from the Cloti hashtag. Some great Cloud X Tifa art!

Spoiler: Cloud X Tifa fan art

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409539394869075973

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412089017013735426

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410300853408485381

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410252958185385989

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411448135721918467

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409282591770005508

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412208903270682629

 

[Humming]

Was checking one of my usual streamers walkthrough of the remake on youtube when I made the mistake of going to the comment section. Some user was saying that Aerith's resolution was the only one canon and that the other 2 were added just because of Tifa and Barret's fans, and that Aerith's is the only one about love. These people need to calm down, don't they realise that maybe if they need to dismiss the characters and spread fake info 'confirmed by devs' they will just scare newer fans away?

Anyway, I found this cute art so maybe this will make it up for the little rant:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412021235215650816

 

[Eerie]

YT comments are a cesspool, and that idea that only the Aerith resolution counts needs to die. All resolutions are canon - and the most hilarious thing?



As you can notice, the presentation in the Ultimania paints a different story by putting first Tifa's resolution and chosing the hug picture (it's not put chronologically). However no one denies here that ALL THREE resolutions are canon. Even the game pushes you to get the three resolutions.

 

[frosty]

Aerith's resolution was the only one canon and that the other 2 were added just because of Tifa and Barret's fans

I don't get the logic of this. Why not just have one Aerith outcome, if they wanted to depict canon? Why convolute the narrative by throwing in 2 other scenes, just for "fans". Why not just have Cloud outright imply he's falling for Aerith, and have her be happy that he's coming after her. End it there. No need for extra exposition of her saying it's not real.

Cloud and Aerith and the whole FF crew appear in KH, purely for fans as well. But never in any fan-service environment was it an option for Cloud and Aerith to cuddle or hug each other? Why choose to put Cloud and Tifa in that situation...just for "fans?"

Also side rant, I remember coming across a soc med post for NPC dialogue in Intergrade / Intermission and alot of the dialogue compliments Tifa and imply that the NPCs are attracted to her.

I feel SE does this alot for their female leads (i.e. Garnet is a babe-alicious / the prettiest girl in Alexandria etc. It's always been one of the things I found annoyingly anime and archaic about SE's work when it pertains to describing women) and someone had to leave a comment that said "Too bad Cloud doesn't find her attractive at all"

SO. PETTY. How old are these people?

/rant

 

[Humming]

I don't get the logic of this. Why not just have one Aerith outcome, if they wanted to depict canon? Why convolute the narrative by throwing in 2 other scenes, just for "fans". Why not just have Cloud outright imply he's falling for Aerith, and have her be happy that he's coming after her. End it there. No need for extra exposition of her saying it's not real.

Cloud and Aerith and the whole FF crew appear in KH, purely for fans as well. But never in any fan-service environment was it an option for Cloud and Aerith to cuddle or hug each other? Why choose to put Cloud and Tifa in that situation...just for "fans?"

Also side rant, I remember coming across a soc med post for NPC dialogue in Intergrade / Intermission and alot of the dialogue compliments Tifa and imply that the NPCs are attracted to her.

I feel SE does this alot for their female leads (i.e. Garnet is a babe-alicious / the prettiest girl in Alexandria etc. It's always been one of the things I found annoyingly anime and archaic about SE's work when it pertains to describing women) and someone had to leave a comment that said "Too bad Cloud doesn't find her attractive at all"

SO. PETTY. How old are these people?

/rant

Most of them are grownups, I'm sure. I know it's useless to worry about these things, but it makes me so angry when people goes around every content they see about a particular thing and make false statements to fit their criteria. I mean, ship whoever the hell you want, make the headcanons you wish, but don't force them into the community.

I'm fairly new to the fandom so I'm checking every interesting video or post, and it's impossible not to find toxicity (always about the same topic, ships). It's totally fair to ship Clerith (hell, I like their aesthets a lot), but why do people need to say things like 'Cloud didn't love Tifa/if she was alive they would be together because Cloud only cares about her/check maiden it says that". Oh yeah, I bet Cloud is the only one who mourns Aerith, it's not like every single member of the group loved her so much that they wear a ribbon in their arms for her.

Given that A LOT of people doesn't know about the Ultimanias, statements like that burst like a wildfire and spread as holy truth. The worst thing is that sometimes a random user tries to give more info, speaking about what the devs said in other Ultimanias and the comment gets blasted with toxicity. It's pretty sad.

Anyway, I'm really interested in this as a psychological aspect of shipping. What pushes people to go these lengths and be aggresive and disrespectful with the story itself and the fandom?

 

[Eerie]

You have to understand that when the OG was released, and for a few years after, clerith was the preferred ship and cloti was the underdog. When asked about who Cloud loved, Nomura who didn't give a rat's ass about it, made an half arsed reply about it which led people to believe that clerith was canon for *years*. It came to such a point that, when AC was released, people did *not* believe that Cloud and Tifa were a couple. The fact that the ending showed Aerith in a field of yellow flowers watching over Cloud running errands on his motorcycle did not help that view, so people kept fighting over details. Then they released the On the Way to a Smile novels and... people began to turn around. Because CoT, especially, but other novels too, were clearly depicting Cloud and Tifa in a relationship. But there were still a lot of fights over details.

It was then that Crisis Core was launched, and Zerith became a huge thing. At that moment, it did also help propel cloti properly in the not so underdog ship to the main Cloud ship, since people who loved Aerith and wanted to ship her had a true love ship for her. Then came ACC with the re-release of the novels too, with Cloud's motivations made clearer, with Aerith being erased from the fiels of flowers (it is to note that the devs had put her there because they hadn't shown her a lot in the movie, so they wanted to just add some fanservice and it came back biting them). A lot of Ultimania also were released and bluntly said that Cloud and Tifa were an item - roughly, they share their feelings without words under the Highwind, etc.

But, by this time, people had already fought 10+ YEARS over the LTD. And some bad blood had been drawn already. Pure lies had been told, especially from the other side that relied on bad translations and make up interviews - this was a time when internet was less spread, people who were able to read JP were few, information was scarce. These people to this day still are in the fandom and trying to influence some side of it. Still spreading lies, as you could see in that YT comment section (seriously don't read there, it's a cesspool). But it's why the shipwars are so toxic, because it's been going on for so long that it forces people to be really divisive. Even when you say that Cloud loves both and it's a matter of preference, you are distorting the story and Cloud's character, IMHO. Shipping clerith is fine. I think it works well in AU setting. In game? Not so much, and a few people really hate it when we put them in front of their contradictions and lies.

And that's how the LTD has became one of the most toxic FFVII fandom has ever created.