Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)
- Thread starter Tennyo
- Start date
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I don't think the goal is to make you feel that she "deserves" Cloud. It's an insight about how deep their love for each other is, and also correcting false arguments that were floating just to attack Tifa - especially since people argued that they weren't true childhood friends, they never even talked together, etc. etc. Toriyama has said that this book is the backbone of Remake, and I can see why: it's the basis of the whole cloti relationship, that will serve in the Lifestream scene. The devs have told you right and there that this is the most important relationship that needed to be more explored from one side because we didn't have her version. Cloud's version will come later and complete it. It's the start of everything, how Cloud went to become a SOLDIER to impress his girl, and everything started from there. It also gives context for Nibelheim, which is super important (see Niflheim which clearly is the inspiration for Nibelheim).
The years after the Nibelheim incident serve as to show how she rebuilt her life and met with Avalanche (and Marle). It gives context to their interactions - especially Jessie and Marlene. It gives us information about what happened during those 5 years because fans have been asking for information about this for EONS.
I don't see a "oh look how this girl had it hard, she deserves love", I see the painting of a strong, determined and gentle heroine brewing in. And if you think SE thought they'd paint her as anything else, clearly people haven't understood what they want for their heroines.
I always liked this one for some reason.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3798564/1/Full-Circle
Something about Tifas insecurity in chapter one really hits me as realistic.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I was thinking, this morning that this scene:
shows that Tifa paid way more attention to Cloud than what people give her credit for when they were kids (and I will say it, I see no significative difference between the English and the French there, except that the French leads you to believe that she's not talking about the colour of his eyes, something that is I think also visible in English). In context with ToTP it makes complete sense! Because she can only know his eyes have changed if she'd seen them close from before.
Also you might not know, but Tifa said this too:
So she's referring to him getting in fights all the time, while the English really leaves that out.
shows that Tifa paid way more attention to Cloud than what people give her credit for when they were kids (and I will say it, I see no significative difference between the English and the French there, except that the French leads you to believe that she's not talking about the colour of his eyes, something that is I think also visible in English). In context with ToTP it makes complete sense! Because she can only know his eyes have changed if she'd seen them close from before.
Also you might not know, but Tifa said this too:
So she's referring to him getting in fights all the time, while the English really leaves that out.
Thenir
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nirnaeth
I love how this part parallels the scene between Aerith and Cloud at Evergreen park. For Tifa mako eyes and in general the way he's changed are bad, because she actually remembers how real Cloud was and that he was a kind person; for Aerith mako eyes reminds her of Zack's eyes, that were "color of the sky but not scary at all", indeed that scene is reminiscent of CC date.
Cloud is unaware of the emotional weight the girls are putting in their observations about his eyes, and he cuts it short remarking that they have an innatural color because of the mako, but both girls are actually remembering someone they loved, which briefly saddens them.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I always understood that line of Tifa's, in English, to mean "the look in your eyes" rather than the appearance of his eyes. In English, "eyes' can mean both the organs themselves and the "regard", depending on context. Tifa's sentence ends in an ellipsis. She could be saying
Tifa: I suppose it's...yeah. Your eyes. They used to be less... blue.
or
Tifa: I suppose it's...yeah. Your eyes. They used to be less... hard and cold.
Tifa: I suppose it's...yeah. Your eyes. They used to be less... blue.
or
Tifa: I suppose it's...yeah. Your eyes. They used to be less... hard and cold.
Dr Frasier Crane
Lv. 25 Adventurer
Doesn’t Tifa say before the climb up to the Shinra HQ at the end of Chapter 14 that Cloud is “a really nice guy” and she “couldn’t see it when they were kids”? Are there quotes from the new book that contradict Tifa’s statement here? I know that the book says that she liked him, especially after the promise at the tower, but if Tifa has known from a young age how sensitive and kind Cloud can be it seems like the game and the book are contradicting each other.
It’s a larger post I’ve been wanting to make, but it sounds like the book and the ultimania has either clarified things we suspected to be true or contradicted some things we previously understood. Like the memory of Cloud’s mother at Aerith’s house which I have previously written about. The book tells us that Claudia and Tifa got along and spent time together after Cloud left. The English translation of the memory scene in the game shows us Claudia recommending that Cloud date someone older. Has the translation massively botched the potential ambiguity of this scene (does Claudia say “someone more mature” in Japanese) or can we infer that Claudia does not like Tifa for some reason or another, hence why she would slight Tifa with this recommendation to Cloud. I’m quite confused at this point as the memory scene is pretty important in how it plays into multiple future plot twists.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
In French she says "regard" which leaves little space for interpretation there. But the JP uses "eyes" too instead of "regard" (my guess is that "yeux" was probably too short for the dub). but it was clear I think that she talked about the coldness in his eyes rather than their colour. Here Tifa is scared of Cloud.
I don't think it contradicts though; when they were kids, after her mother died they never talked and he got into fights all the time. So she couldn't see his kindness. It was only later when she was a teen and that she saw him always finding her cat that she began to understand this. The promise makes her realise that he's just a normal boy, and she's been crushing on him from afar at that point so it crystallise this crush into a true love. I think what we have to realise is that two ideas that are different don't mean they're "or", rather they're "and"; they add to the background without necessarily contradicting each other. For example yes, Tifa used to call him to join them playing, and he ignored those calls. However in chapter 1, this distinct memory of Tifa calling him to play with them is wrong and changed by Jenova. there are different time stamps all over which makes it difficult to understand when this and that happened, probably because this is how it works with memories, you remember one thing, then another one that happened at a totally different time. Especially with memories of being a kid, it's a bit muddy.
The French also has her telling him about an older gf, but the JP talks about a "mature" one. I think because it would sound weird in both English and French to talk about a mature girlfriend. Rewatching that scene it's really hilarious because with the context of the book, we know that she was teasing him (you can see her grin at that point lol). What's really interesting to me is that she says "a girl who would push you everyday to do your best" and that it's soooooooooo Tifa (hello rooftop scene after Rufus' fight?). It's no wonder that:
- he has that dream
- he awakes with the reflection of "stars" in the eyes (they really are lights but it makes us think about the starry night of the promise)
- right after he heads towards sector 7 to reunite with Tifa, without waiting for the morning
There were big hints enough in that scene that the girl referred to was Tifa, but with the book, there is zero doubt that it's Tifa and that he didn't want to listen to his mother (who was trying to get info about it because she knew Tifa was special to him).
But I remember too that this scene in the OG sparked some LT discussions with people claiming Claudia would have supported Aerith as her son's girlfriend/that Cloud only wanted Tifa. Either way, both in Remake and in the OG, that's a misleading scene because we don't know what spurred Claudia to act like this. Since we are in Aerith's house, a lot of players will think that it's a way to push Aerith as the love interest. But once you know about the ins and outs of this scene, it is in fact a mother teasing her son about the girl he likes. That's really how Remake can shine to me, compared to the OG, in the way it uses illusion versus what is truly told.
Thenir
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nirnaeth
I don't think it's a contradiction. Tifa remembers him being a cold kid who kept getting into fights. Even if she fell in love with him realizing that he was an ordinary boy, those are still her most consistent memories of him, unaware that he was playing out a façade also back then. SOLDIER Cloud has the same cold personality since he's the result of Jenova reading Tifa's memories. But in a very short time he passed from being "not interested" to trying to save Tifa, trying to prevent the collapse of Sector 7 and finally trying to save Aerith, that's what surprizes Tifa (and Barret), who had never seen him caring about anyone else.
I'm far from being an expert of Japanese but I'd recommend checking this:
I think the question here is if translator are given the detailed context of the scripts. I don't think it's wrong to translate this with “older” (indeed other localizations used it) but in Japanese this sentence is meant to be ambiguous.
The player who views this scene for the first time sees Cloud falling asleep and dreaming of his mother, who is a lot like Elmyra, recommending him to find a good girlfriend. Since he has this dream at Aerith's house (and if we check her bio she is older than him) of course we have to think that Cloud is relating this memory to Aerith. But then when we get to Kalm's flashback and the Lifestream sequence, we're given additional context and we come to know that in that moment Cloud was thinking about Tifa. Now the new novel clarifies that Claudia was meaning a "more mature" girlfriend, more specifically Tifa since she found out 1 or 2 days before that they have a crush for each other. I'd be just a bit curious to see how the localizers would handle the subject if this dream will ever be mentioned again with its right context.
Dr Frasier Crane
Lv. 25 Adventurer
Apologies for the super late reply, Thenir. Thank you (and Eerie!) for your response and pulling that tumblr post. It’s quite frustrating to see that the English translation misses some of the nuance of the Japanese original and can leave viewers (including myself) with quite a different understanding of what Claudia could have meant in this memory and in-turn how Cloud could be internalising it.
However, if this scene in its original Japanese script can be read in favour of either girl, and if we then tie-in the flash of stars in Cloud’s eye after, I think that’s pretty purposeful foreshadowing that the same revelation about Cloud feelings for Tifa as youth are being built towards in the story. I still think there’s going to be some big changes in the sequels like in the Evangelion Rebuild series but as long as the story is being built off of the same foundations and motivations as the original, I’m good!
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Just noticed something in chapter 3. I don't remember if we talked about it, but I think it shows that Cloud wants to stay in Midgar *before* he even remembers the promise:
Tifa: "With you by my side, I really have nothing to fear from these creatures."
Cloud: "Even without me. I didn't think you fought so well."
Tifa: "I've been here for 5 years. You quickly learn that you must know how to defend yourself alone."
Tifa: "By the way, what rule number do you think this is?"
Cloud: "Do I have to remember them?"
Tifa: "Well yes, you live here now! Come on, a bit of effort now!"
After this exchange, we see Cloud who indeed memorises all the lessons Tifa can give him. And with ToTP, we know that Tifa learned the hard way all those lessons, which makes me think she wanted Cloud's life to be way easier than hers
Tifa: "With you by my side, I really have nothing to fear from these creatures."
Cloud: "Even without me. I didn't think you fought so well."
Tifa: "I've been here for 5 years. You quickly learn that you must know how to defend yourself alone."
Tifa: "By the way, what rule number do you think this is?"
Cloud: "Do I have to remember them?"
Tifa: "Well yes, you live here now! Come on, a bit of effort now!"
After this exchange, we see Cloud who indeed memorises all the lessons Tifa can give him. And with ToTP, we know that Tifa learned the hard way all those lessons, which makes me think she wanted Cloud's life to be way easier than hers
Shadowfox
You look like you need a monkey
After this exchange, we see Cloud who indeed memorises all the lessons Tifa can give him. And with ToTP, we know that Tifa learned the hard way all those lessons, which makes me think she wanted Cloud's life to be way easier than hers
Absolutely! TOTP really adds more layers to Tifa's interactions with Cloud in chapter 3. After reading of her difficult time starting out in Midgar, it's very clear that Tifa makes the extra effort to ensure that Cloud has proper shelter, and connections to good, reputable people who will provide him with work and income (and who can be trusted to not try to cheat him of his earnings).
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
I actually think I prefer them in casual cloths.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
So now that we've finished the Nibelheim part of Tifa's flashback in ToTP, I wanted to do a nice recap because I think we've been given a lot, and there's a lot to talk about - I actually chatted a lot with @odekopeko because I loved those so much~~
ToTP part 1
This is interesting, because it rings just like the fake memory from chapter 1. Technically, what happened I think is that Nojima wrote it with the idea to show that Tifa never excluded Cloud, but the devs chose to transform it into a fake memory - however Nojima wrote this section clearly as a nod to this scene. One doesn't however exclude the other, the fact that when she was little she used to call him does not mean that this special memory isn't modified.
It also is a callback to Cloud fighting everyone - especially after Tifa fell in the mountain - and Tifa noting this herself in chapter 3 when they reconnect.
I truly think that Cloud got the same treatment since forever, since his father died when he was young, and that's why he was filled with rage and looked down on everyone but Tifa - I suppose because she was the only one who didn't treat him like that. This is such a rather short line, but it gives a lot of context of how things work in Nibelheim, and gives such context about how Cloud never really fitted there for good reasons.
Interestingly enough all her three friends are lumped together. As I told Peko, the poor guys were friendzoned since a long time ago, since they always were together and friends since infancy. They also made promises to her, but none of the promises they made had any impact on Tifa. This makes Cloud's case stand out.
Ah, here we get the first hint that Cloud... watches her. A lot. That he's interested in her. She didn't know he'd know about her cat - how would he know, the cat was a new pert.
This made us all think that she somehow knew that her friends had died, because aside one time, she hasn't gotten any news. Now think about how CERTAIN she is that Cloud made it into SOLDIER. She doesn't even think once that he could have died.
Honestly, this is just so cute~~ It just looks like a romance novel haha.
And... she gets high. Her heart is beating fast. So she starts recollecting the memories she has of him. And that's where we can see it; she has so few of them that t hey all stand out. She cares about them all because there are so few of them. Her friends are all lumped together, she has so many memories of them that none especially stands out. But with Cloud, it's different. Each memory becomes precious to her.
It's also when we realise that both already searched for her cat - a direct reminder of chapter's 3 sidequest.
We were robbed of cute memories with infant Tifa and Cloud playing :') really :') It also shows that Tifa treated Cloud normally.
Yep, Thea has definitely picked up that her daughter crushed on the boy next door :') It's also an important memory that she kept of her family life, because it was before her mother died. These were happy times, and they included Cloud. Even if Brian disagreed :')
What is interesting here... is that Cloud stopped coming even before her mother's death. And I'm thinking it might have to do with his father dying really early. He felt the gazes of the villagers change on him, and that rage started building from there. Brian probably looked at him that way, which is why he stopped coming.
And we can see how Cloud's invitation is already different from her other friends'. It gives her an adrenaline rush!
We can see the stars' motif that are one of cloti's themes...
Tifa is very well aware of the fact that this is a dating spot - maybe her friends also confessed which is why she wonders the same thing about Cloud. As she starts pondering though:
Does she like him? YES. Undoubtely, Tifa recognises that she has a crush on Cloud, but she never let it transform into something else because she thought Cloud was unreachable - I swear those two kids - and we fall back on the stars motif. With a racing heart to boot.
Again, this is so cute. She is so hyper that she's worried about not sounding natural, which is something that girls expecting something really know. It's so realistic and cute~~
But when he says the same thing that her friends did, it's when she realises that he's not out of reach. However, there is a difference between him and her friends: they all made her promises, Cloud didn't. Which spurred her into having the promise with him:
The promise is as important to her that it is to him. And most importantly, it was the promise that they'd get reunited one day - which is probably why she never feared that he'd die. Somewhere, she knew they would get reunited.
It's also the moment when she truly fell in love with him, when her crush cristallised into love - she wanted to spend time with him. Even though we already knew it, the way it's described, we can finally say "ah, this is so romantic and so important to her". We know that this is the kind of love that's supposed to resist years of separation, and yes, that is why when Remake starts, we can recontext easily that Tifa is in love with Cloud. From the start.
Once again, Cloud is different from her other friends; she could say goodbye to them, but she was not allowed to say goodbye to him. She felt sad but it left an indelible mark in her heart. Because of that, Cloud's memories became even more precious.
It's also interesting here that Nojima wrote Midgar's Blues separation there. The wonder if he read the English lyrics and approved them so much that he wrote them back in his novel will be permanent, I guess ^^
ToTP part 2, pages 25-29
It's really interesting because once he leaves, Cloud begins to leave his mark onto her. She recognises and accepts his introvert side, although there's not only that in him as we'll see later on. She herself thinks it's nice and becomes kind of an introvert herself, even though she has a lot of socialising skills, thanks to her 3 friends.
Of course, Zangan's words will ring for everyone here about the Lifestream scene, how Cloud thought highly of himself, better than the others, and refused to face the reality. It's also a self warning for Tifa, who also faces her fears together with Cloud in the same scene - fears that maybe he is not the Cloud she cherishes so much.
This is the first, big hint about what's to come in Remake, the reason why this story has been called the backbone of the game by Kitase; because Tifa's part shows Cloud's feelings as well as hers and how everything must be resolved in the Lifestream. Here in this book, Tifa gains the mental and physical fortitudes that will be fit to help Cloud. Both as a close ally in combat, and to help his weak mind.
ToTP part 3.
Even though he stayed and Cloud left, I feel so much that Cloud resembles a lot Brian there; after all in CoT, he is ready to settle for life with Tifa, wherever that might be! Not to mention that Thea herself is popular, just like her mother.
This is the part where we can draw parallels between the parents and the kids XD
Of course, Cloud is likened to his parents; not only in looks, but also in behaviour. His father was just like him; he had to travel the world, which is something Cloud enjoys doing. Yet at the end of the day, he always comes back to Tifa. And I do think his father wanted to come back, but thinking about it, I really wonder if he saw something or if Shinra just took him and experimented him on. After all, does Nojima really want to paint a missing father who left his young boy and woman, or is it more likely that he planned to come back but couldn't make it in the end? I bet for the second, but the fact that his belongings were found definitely makes me suspiscious as only Shinra would leave those behind. It's entirely possible that we'll find in Remake what has happened to his father, and why Nojima has left that door opened.
And we begin to see the important (tm) memory cropping up. Just a little teasing... Cloud egging Tifa to climb Mt. Nibel... And Tifa who can't remember. Who wants to know more. Who can't confirm anything.
Tifa doesn't really like how people objectify her, or how they tell her with whom she should be. That doesn't fly by her, and it's to note that Cloud doesn't like it either when people make such comments about her body, or how they come after her. I'm glad they are on the same wavelength there
This will never be not funny to me.
Nothing really cloti, except her role in restauring Cloud's memories, but this bits made me sad. Her village is about to get destroyed, and there will be no one except Cloud to share those stories with.
Interestingly that passage shows Tifa's inner strength; it's not that she wants to look down on others, it's that she doesn't want to be looked down on. So she want to be strong. To be taken as granted by Emilio, that made her furious. She isn't interested in him, but he never asked about her own feelings. Emilio and Cloud are both in love with her, but we can see the differences between the two; how one takes her for granted while the other thinks of her as unreachable, who doesn't even dare think that she'd be interested in him. And we can also see who she pursues - it's the one who gives her space.
ToTP part 4.
I sense a parallel trajectory with Cloud, who learns to cherish everyone.
Out of topic but when I went through the Lifestream scene the first time around, I did wonder how the hell two kids could survive in the mountains because it was freaking dangerous lol. But it does seem that it wasn't always this way, even if it was dangerous, it was never this dangerous. Welp, thanks Shinra.
Those two are so similar, let me cry in peace
Just like Cloud, she seals her feelings away! Or tries to...
Each memory she has with him is just so vivid and precious to her, things that she doesn't want to forget. Every one of them is special because she has so few of them - once again showing the differences between her 3 friends and Cloud.
There we are. The important memory. The one she doesn't remember, and because she doesn't remember it, only the true Cloud can confirm it. It's the one that's been bugging her too for so long.
Tifa feels it; that something else happened, but she doesn't know what. And she feels Cloud protecting her. And most importantly, she wants to ask him again when she'll meet him again - that opportunity will only happen in the Lifestream. That's when she finally reunites with true!Cloud. She hasn't got the possibility to ask him before Kalm, and with the Kalm flashback, there is no way she'd ask him now what happened because something is bizarre but she isn't sure herself...
I really like that she wore this outfit because she enjoyed it rather than wearing it for Cloud. It makes sense that she would continue to wear it rather than not change into her normal clothes when she notices that Cloud isn't there. Also explains why she wears it before Sephiroth, Zack and Cloud arrive in town...
Tifa doesn't seem to have the possibility to talk to Claudia much, so she jumps at the occasion; I realised that at this point, Tifa is desperate for any news about Cloud - she hasn't got any in 2 years, and is suddenly hopeful that he'll show up... This is why she tells the Turks about the promise, why she keeps bugging Zack about a blond SOLDIER. Because she has no way to have any information about Cloud's whereabouts... and suddenly, it gives her remark to Cloud about being able to reunite like this in Midgar in Remake such a strong streak of desire to be reunited with him. It's something she didn't dare dream about, yet here they were!
Cloud definitely gave Tifa the preference treatment there, giving her informationt hat he didn't even give to his mother
That's when Claudia realises Cloud's feelings for her, and it definitely gives context to his dream in Remake where she teases him about a girlfriend: she's not worried for him, she's fishing information! And we can see it because while chatting with him, she's having this big grin - what a way for a mother to be worried for her son! Nope, she's definitely fishing for info, and Cloud didn't get it - he sealed his feelings away because no one should ever know! (I mean aside about everyone because he's so freaking transparent lol).
I guess this explains why the kids go to Midgar so early... They were barely 14 when they left, that's awfully young.
Here Tifa is honest with herself; even if she knew, it didn't matter because she wanted to get close to Cloud. Because she wanted to spend time with him. This only happens in chapter 3 of Remake though!
Yes, Cloud gets jealous and scowls, but the interesting bit here... is that he looks off to the distance first. I think that he tries to remember what Tifa is talking about and when he does remember, he scowls. He truly never liked those kids, after all XD
Tifa in her whole part is truly interesting to see; we can see her growth from a kid who loses her mother, to a teenager who loses her friends and the guy she's in love with, who ends up alone surrounded by old people but learns, makes mistakes, still is kid-like, but grows a lot and learns a lot. gets rid of her bad habits, betters herself. Becomes stronger, mentally and physically. Learns discipline, gets better relationship with her father. It's really made Tifa even more precious, and I really enjoy it, as a Tifa fan.
And of course, as a cloti fan, I've been well fed; we can see how her feelings take a turn, how the moments they shared matter to her, how much she craves news from him - we know she read the newspaper to try to catch info on what happened with him, asked around whenever she could... When the Nibelheim incident started, she truly wished to see him and become closer to him. If only Cloud had known!
ToTP part 1
This is interesting, because it rings just like the fake memory from chapter 1. Technically, what happened I think is that Nojima wrote it with the idea to show that Tifa never excluded Cloud, but the devs chose to transform it into a fake memory - however Nojima wrote this section clearly as a nod to this scene. One doesn't however exclude the other, the fact that when she was little she used to call him does not mean that this special memory isn't modified.
It also is a callback to Cloud fighting everyone - especially after Tifa fell in the mountain - and Tifa noting this herself in chapter 3 when they reconnect.
I truly think that Cloud got the same treatment since forever, since his father died when he was young, and that's why he was filled with rage and looked down on everyone but Tifa - I suppose because she was the only one who didn't treat him like that. This is such a rather short line, but it gives a lot of context of how things work in Nibelheim, and gives such context about how Cloud never really fitted there for good reasons.
Interestingly enough all her three friends are lumped together. As I told Peko, the poor guys were friendzoned since a long time ago, since they always were together and friends since infancy. They also made promises to her, but none of the promises they made had any impact on Tifa. This makes Cloud's case stand out.
Ah, here we get the first hint that Cloud... watches her. A lot. That he's interested in her. She didn't know he'd know about her cat - how would he know, the cat was a new pert.
This made us all think that she somehow knew that her friends had died, because aside one time, she hasn't gotten any news. Now think about how CERTAIN she is that Cloud made it into SOLDIER. She doesn't even think once that he could have died.
Honestly, this is just so cute~~ It just looks like a romance novel haha.
And... she gets high. Her heart is beating fast. So she starts recollecting the memories she has of him. And that's where we can see it; she has so few of them that t hey all stand out. She cares about them all because there are so few of them. Her friends are all lumped together, she has so many memories of them that none especially stands out. But with Cloud, it's different. Each memory becomes precious to her.
It's also when we realise that both already searched for her cat - a direct reminder of chapter's 3 sidequest.
We were robbed of cute memories with infant Tifa and Cloud playing :') really :') It also shows that Tifa treated Cloud normally.
Yep, Thea has definitely picked up that her daughter crushed on the boy next door :') It's also an important memory that she kept of her family life, because it was before her mother died. These were happy times, and they included Cloud. Even if Brian disagreed :')
What is interesting here... is that Cloud stopped coming even before her mother's death. And I'm thinking it might have to do with his father dying really early. He felt the gazes of the villagers change on him, and that rage started building from there. Brian probably looked at him that way, which is why he stopped coming.
And we can see how Cloud's invitation is already different from her other friends'. It gives her an adrenaline rush!
We can see the stars' motif that are one of cloti's themes...
Tifa is very well aware of the fact that this is a dating spot - maybe her friends also confessed which is why she wonders the same thing about Cloud. As she starts pondering though:
Does she like him? YES. Undoubtely, Tifa recognises that she has a crush on Cloud, but she never let it transform into something else because she thought Cloud was unreachable - I swear those two kids - and we fall back on the stars motif. With a racing heart to boot.
Again, this is so cute. She is so hyper that she's worried about not sounding natural, which is something that girls expecting something really know. It's so realistic and cute~~
But when he says the same thing that her friends did, it's when she realises that he's not out of reach. However, there is a difference between him and her friends: they all made her promises, Cloud didn't. Which spurred her into having the promise with him:
The promise is as important to her that it is to him. And most importantly, it was the promise that they'd get reunited one day - which is probably why she never feared that he'd die. Somewhere, she knew they would get reunited.
It's also the moment when she truly fell in love with him, when her crush cristallised into love - she wanted to spend time with him. Even though we already knew it, the way it's described, we can finally say "ah, this is so romantic and so important to her". We know that this is the kind of love that's supposed to resist years of separation, and yes, that is why when Remake starts, we can recontext easily that Tifa is in love with Cloud. From the start.
Once again, Cloud is different from her other friends; she could say goodbye to them, but she was not allowed to say goodbye to him. She felt sad but it left an indelible mark in her heart. Because of that, Cloud's memories became even more precious.
It's also interesting here that Nojima wrote Midgar's Blues separation there. The wonder if he read the English lyrics and approved them so much that he wrote them back in his novel will be permanent, I guess ^^
ToTP part 2, pages 25-29
It's really interesting because once he leaves, Cloud begins to leave his mark onto her. She recognises and accepts his introvert side, although there's not only that in him as we'll see later on. She herself thinks it's nice and becomes kind of an introvert herself, even though she has a lot of socialising skills, thanks to her 3 friends.
Of course, Zangan's words will ring for everyone here about the Lifestream scene, how Cloud thought highly of himself, better than the others, and refused to face the reality. It's also a self warning for Tifa, who also faces her fears together with Cloud in the same scene - fears that maybe he is not the Cloud she cherishes so much.
This is the first, big hint about what's to come in Remake, the reason why this story has been called the backbone of the game by Kitase; because Tifa's part shows Cloud's feelings as well as hers and how everything must be resolved in the Lifestream. Here in this book, Tifa gains the mental and physical fortitudes that will be fit to help Cloud. Both as a close ally in combat, and to help his weak mind.
ToTP part 3.
Even though he stayed and Cloud left, I feel so much that Cloud resembles a lot Brian there; after all in CoT, he is ready to settle for life with Tifa, wherever that might be! Not to mention that Thea herself is popular, just like her mother.
This is the part where we can draw parallels between the parents and the kids XD
Of course, Cloud is likened to his parents; not only in looks, but also in behaviour. His father was just like him; he had to travel the world, which is something Cloud enjoys doing. Yet at the end of the day, he always comes back to Tifa. And I do think his father wanted to come back, but thinking about it, I really wonder if he saw something or if Shinra just took him and experimented him on. After all, does Nojima really want to paint a missing father who left his young boy and woman, or is it more likely that he planned to come back but couldn't make it in the end? I bet for the second, but the fact that his belongings were found definitely makes me suspiscious as only Shinra would leave those behind. It's entirely possible that we'll find in Remake what has happened to his father, and why Nojima has left that door opened.
And we begin to see the important (tm) memory cropping up. Just a little teasing... Cloud egging Tifa to climb Mt. Nibel... And Tifa who can't remember. Who wants to know more. Who can't confirm anything.
Tifa doesn't really like how people objectify her, or how they tell her with whom she should be. That doesn't fly by her, and it's to note that Cloud doesn't like it either when people make such comments about her body, or how they come after her. I'm glad they are on the same wavelength there
This will never be not funny to me.
Nothing really cloti, except her role in restauring Cloud's memories, but this bits made me sad. Her village is about to get destroyed, and there will be no one except Cloud to share those stories with.
Interestingly that passage shows Tifa's inner strength; it's not that she wants to look down on others, it's that she doesn't want to be looked down on. So she want to be strong. To be taken as granted by Emilio, that made her furious. She isn't interested in him, but he never asked about her own feelings. Emilio and Cloud are both in love with her, but we can see the differences between the two; how one takes her for granted while the other thinks of her as unreachable, who doesn't even dare think that she'd be interested in him. And we can also see who she pursues - it's the one who gives her space.
ToTP part 4.
I sense a parallel trajectory with Cloud, who learns to cherish everyone.
Out of topic but when I went through the Lifestream scene the first time around, I did wonder how the hell two kids could survive in the mountains because it was freaking dangerous lol. But it does seem that it wasn't always this way, even if it was dangerous, it was never this dangerous. Welp, thanks Shinra.
Those two are so similar, let me cry in peace
Just like Cloud, she seals her feelings away! Or tries to...Each memory she has with him is just so vivid and precious to her, things that she doesn't want to forget. Every one of them is special because she has so few of them - once again showing the differences between her 3 friends and Cloud.
There we are. The important memory. The one she doesn't remember, and because she doesn't remember it, only the true Cloud can confirm it. It's the one that's been bugging her too for so long.
Tifa feels it; that something else happened, but she doesn't know what. And she feels Cloud protecting her. And most importantly, she wants to ask him again when she'll meet him again - that opportunity will only happen in the Lifestream. That's when she finally reunites with true!Cloud. She hasn't got the possibility to ask him before Kalm, and with the Kalm flashback, there is no way she'd ask him now what happened because something is bizarre but she isn't sure herself...
I really like that she wore this outfit because she enjoyed it rather than wearing it for Cloud. It makes sense that she would continue to wear it rather than not change into her normal clothes when she notices that Cloud isn't there. Also explains why she wears it before Sephiroth, Zack and Cloud arrive in town...
Tifa doesn't seem to have the possibility to talk to Claudia much, so she jumps at the occasion; I realised that at this point, Tifa is desperate for any news about Cloud - she hasn't got any in 2 years, and is suddenly hopeful that he'll show up... This is why she tells the Turks about the promise, why she keeps bugging Zack about a blond SOLDIER. Because she has no way to have any information about Cloud's whereabouts... and suddenly, it gives her remark to Cloud about being able to reunite like this in Midgar in Remake such a strong streak of desire to be reunited with him. It's something she didn't dare dream about, yet here they were!
Cloud definitely gave Tifa the preference treatment there, giving her informationt hat he didn't even give to his mother
That's when Claudia realises Cloud's feelings for her, and it definitely gives context to his dream in Remake where she teases him about a girlfriend: she's not worried for him, she's fishing information! And we can see it because while chatting with him, she's having this big grin - what a way for a mother to be worried for her son! Nope, she's definitely fishing for info, and Cloud didn't get it - he sealed his feelings away because no one should ever know! (I mean aside about everyone because he's so freaking transparent lol).I guess this explains why the kids go to Midgar so early... They were barely 14 when they left, that's awfully young.
Here Tifa is honest with herself; even if she knew, it didn't matter because she wanted to get close to Cloud. Because she wanted to spend time with him. This only happens in chapter 3 of Remake though!
Yes, Cloud gets jealous and scowls, but the interesting bit here... is that he looks off to the distance first. I think that he tries to remember what Tifa is talking about and when he does remember, he scowls. He truly never liked those kids, after all XD
Tifa in her whole part is truly interesting to see; we can see her growth from a kid who loses her mother, to a teenager who loses her friends and the guy she's in love with, who ends up alone surrounded by old people but learns, makes mistakes, still is kid-like, but grows a lot and learns a lot. gets rid of her bad habits, betters herself. Becomes stronger, mentally and physically. Learns discipline, gets better relationship with her father. It's really made Tifa even more precious, and I really enjoy it, as a Tifa fan.
And of course, as a cloti fan, I've been well fed; we can see how her feelings take a turn, how the moments they shared matter to her, how much she craves news from him - we know she read the newspaper to try to catch info on what happened with him, asked around whenever she could... When the Nibelheim incident started, she truly wished to see him and become closer to him. If only Cloud had known!
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KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
No no this is all wrong, Tifa was a bully to Cloud so none of this can be canon just like Crisis Core /s lmao
a_apple 2.0
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- a_apple
Tifa would be a bit of a sociopath if the only reaction she can brother to give, when realizing her childhood friends she grew up with probably all died is: lmao who cares, anyway I'm wondering what my hunky pretty boy is doing rn :3
I think she probably assumes they started a new life somewhere else
Eerie
Fire and Blood
What is interesting to me is that she probably internalised that they could die. She felt the power of Midgar's attraction to the boys and wanted to train as to not be looked down as the country girl who was just a trophy; so certainly she did not think they were dead when she was still living in Nibelheim. After the Nibelheim incident, it probably crossed her mind - I haven't read much about the Midgar part, I stopped doing that when Peko started translating. But even if it's not written, there's about zero doubt that she realised it.
This was certainly put as a warning to the readers - hey those boys you never wondered about, they're probably dead you know? But in the same time, when you have zero news, even from a boy who wanted to take you with him... She surely had some doubts, when months and years passed without any news. They TALKED about it. She knows it's a dangerous job they wanted to take. In fact, it's probably saved Cloud to not be taken at the same time than the others, because he was not dispatched with them. But when you have only doubts and no news, it's hard to think "oh they're dead for sure" and grieve. Maybe they are not. There is always some hope.
Thenir
Pro Adventurer
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I have more the impression that she thinks they just forgot about her, which links up with her previous idea that they all considered her like a trophy, implying that they liked her only superficially.
Yes it's very likely that Shinra hunted them down after the incident, but if they died during the two years before it their families would have been informed. They just stopped thinking about her once they got to Midgar. In the letter of the son of the owner of the general store (...Emilio?) it was stated that he didn't even make it into the army, he was unemployed and lived in the slums - indeed he appears also in CC around Wall Market.
(Ehe now that I read the letter again there's a little inconcistency:
I just arrived in Midgar eight days ago. Yesterday, all of Nibelheim got together to welcome me. The only person that we couldn't get a hold of was Cloud. But everyone said he wasn't really that close to us. So even if we asked, he probably wouldn't have come anyway.
But Cloud is supposed to be last one getting to Midgar. Maybe this boy spent some months somewhere else, who knows ?)
Yes it's very likely that Shinra hunted them down after the incident, but if they died during the two years before it their families would have been informed. They just stopped thinking about her once they got to Midgar. In the letter of the son of the owner of the general store (...Emilio?) it was stated that he didn't even make it into the army, he was unemployed and lived in the slums - indeed he appears also in CC around Wall Market.
(Ehe now that I read the letter again there's a little inconcistency:
I just arrived in Midgar eight days ago. Yesterday, all of Nibelheim got together to welcome me. The only person that we couldn't get a hold of was Cloud. But everyone said he wasn't really that close to us. So even if we asked, he probably wouldn't have come anyway.
But Cloud is supposed to be last one getting to Midgar. Maybe this boy spent some months somewhere else, who knows ?)
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Well yeah, I just did write that her friends weren't dead yet by the time of the Nibelheim incident. I don't know about forgetting her, the two other boys certainly, but Emilio was I think really in love with her. It's certainly the impression Peko got from reading his letter, and it also gives an explanation as to why he lied to the adults about Cloud - because he was jealous Cloud got the guts to follow Tifa, and he didn't want them to become closer! When he mentioned the food he ate in his letter, I certainly felt he was in Wall Market lol, so that's in line with his CC appearance. But he certainly stopped trying to contact her if he was ashamed that he didn't make it and wasn't able to bring her back by his side, a bit ala Cloud.