Fanon Stereotypes! or How We Learned to Continue Worrying and Rant a Bunch

[Jason Tandro]

Also, I'm just curious, but where exactly do you get the sense that Rufus is a bumbling idiot of a CEO?

I've read a few fics, mostly comedy, that turn Rufus into a comic relief. See Mr. Ite's "burns/smithers" comparison. My own series, Shinra Inc And turns him i to basically Michael Scott from the office. only more evil.


Also: Thank you for the info on Vincent/Yuffie!

 

[Rydeen]

A lot of these can be attributed to Advent Children. Cloud was never as brooding as he was in the movie, he was just rude and asocial, and after he gets over the hump he's just a 'normal' guy with a (somewhat dry) sense of humor.

Sephiroth is often thought of as a mama's boy because it is not universal knowledge that he is the one controlling Jenova and not vice-versa, and also because of his initial obsession with her before falling into the lifestream (when he refines his emotions into a meglomaniacal hatred toward everything, which tends to be ignored in favor of the initial mama's boy impression).

Aerith is not a pure innocent flower, but the interpretation is perfectly reasonable at first glance. What would you assume about a woman wearing a long pink dress that spends her free time gardening in a church? She's also something of a Christ figure and Advent Children accentuated this to the point where she presents as a motherly, flawless angel (maybe that was how Cloud saw her?). In Crisis Core she has a rather naive disposition, but there were a ton of things wrong with the depiction of the slums in that game anyway. I personally always thought it was odd how a girl from the slums would be so girly; indeed, at first appearance you would assume her to be from Nibelheim and Tifa (who has a much more serious demeanor and 'urban' style of dress) from Midgar. To be honest, this is probably a front she puts on to convince herself that the world is a sweet place full of childlike wonder, which actually reflects the cultural phenomenon among Japanese women in a way.

Barret initially strikes as a stereotypical 'angry black dude' Mr. T expy and I can understand how someone can take a short glance at the first (and still one of the only) black Final Fantasy character and see the outlandish tattooed, jacked, gun arm toting character design and find it problematic, but the problem is not with the character itself, because he is not a caricature and these traits aren't a shallow oversimplification of his character, and the writers took him seriously. Barret does talk in ebonics, but so what, he comes from a poor background, and Cid churns out profanity at least twice as much as he does. Reno who is probably from the actual inner city uses street talk as well, so its not like Barret's informal speech/vulgarity is an isolated occurence.

Another one to add to the list-

Spoiler: Reno is a bumbling moron

Reno is obnoxious, street (probably without a good early education), and sometimes a little silly, but he has never been stupid or incompetent. There is a reason why he's Rude's superior and if it weren't for Advent Children, this wouldn't be a thing. Once upon a time, the Turks were taken seriously by the company, and for Reno to be promoted to a high position within the department without dying, he has to have some good qualifications.

Spoiler: Rufus was brutally physically abused by his father and Mrs. Shinra was a sweet little Mary Sue who was killed by her husband

This could be true. We don't know. But it is something in fanfiction that is so played out the exact same way every time, akin to Young Adult fiction. Why is simple psychological abuse (the only thing clearly indicated by the new canon material) and perhaps a natural death of Mrs. Shinra not 'poignant' enough?

 

[Octo]

Don't forget Reno is an ex prostitute and/or was sexually abused.

 

[jazzflower92]

How about Lucrecia there seems to be some stories that depict her as being a pure angel who was coerced into experimenting on her unborn son.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

And the widespread fanon assumption that Vincent was the best Turk in the department, a legend in his own lifetime.

If Vincent had been a top class Turk (or even a good one), he would

a) not have compromised his work by becoming personally, emotionally involved with the Science Department's experiments. Tseng was emotionally attached to Aerith but he didn't let that stop him from doing his duty.
b) not have let himself get shot by Hojo (of all people!). Vincent's supposed to be a sharpshooter, and yet Hojo got the drop on him!

I like to think that Vincent was actually too good a human being (if somewhat passive) to make a really good Turk. He made a wrong career choice, and everything went downhill from there.

@ Ryvius and Octo: I'm agree, I'm tired of seeing bumbling moron ex-child prostitute Reno (although I have seen this done well), and brutally physically abused Rufus orphan of an angelic mother (never seen this combo done well). And you're right, the same storyline gets played out again and again and it is just like YA fiction - maybe because that's what the people who are writing it read?

 

[ForceStealer]

I agree that Cloud was never "emo" in 7. The closest he comes I guess is when he's apologizing before giving up the Black Materia. So I never understood the back to square one thing. Yes he had become a strong leader by the end of 7 and he did lose that in AC, but that was because of the terminal illness rather than a regression.

Now, KH and the second Dissidia (I thought he was okay in the first) I can make no excuses for.

 

[jazzflower92]

Another thing I notice in fandom is the fact that they make Sephiroth more sexual in personality. I know its because he is drop dead hot but it kind of contradicts his nature because he is seen even after becoming evil as being asexual. It might be how he interacts with Cloud that puts people's minds in the gutter.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I like to think that Vincent was actually too good a human being (if somewhat passive) to make a really good Turk. He made a wrong career choice, and everything went downhill from there.

A more in depth exploration of this would make a far better story than DoC actually had.

 

[jazzflower92]

Speaking of which I notice in some stories they have Dr. Hojo be more lecherous than what he is shown in canon. Its probably to show him even more despicable than he already is.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Another one to add to the list-

Spoiler: Reno is a bumbling moron

Reno is obnoxious, street (probably without a good early education), and sometimes a little silly, but he has never been stupid or incompetent. There is a reason why he's Rude's superior and if it weren't for Advent Children, this wouldn't be a thing. Once upon a time, the Turks were taken seriously by the company, and for Reno to be promoted to a high position within the department without dying, he has to have some good qualifications.

Spoiler: Rufus was brutally physically abused by his father and Mrs. Shinra was a sweet little Mary Sue who was killed by her husband

This could be true. We don't know. But it is something in fanfiction that is so played out the exact same way every time, akin to Young Adult fiction. Why is simple psychological abuse (the only thing clearly indicated by the new canon material) and perhaps a natural death of Mrs. Shinra not 'poignant' enough?

The Reno is an idiot thing is so prominent, like the character exists as a joke. "Oh that whacky Reno, causing all these problems". And this interpretation always has him as happy go lucky/not at all scary, as if the fandom forgets or doesn't even know he's a killer.

I blame AC and the KH fandom who got into FFVII because Reno is like Axel. I'm in the KH fandom, and I got into FFVII via AC, so I don't have anything against this side of the fandom, but it sometimes feel like they don't even want to know the canon character.

And it just doesn't make sense. Reno wouldn't be a Turk if he were incompetent, and I feel like the fandom really doesn't appreciate Rufus's genius.

If I were going to do a funny parody I'd like to play up Rufus as hacker/trickster.

As for tragic back grounds, child prostitution or physical abuse. I think whether or not it's done well depends on why the author is doing it. If we're giving a character a dark and troubled past to excuse them from doing bad things as an adult it seems a bit like lazy writing. Bringing in external forces to make a character sympathetic rather than writing them so that they're sympathetic despite what they do.

If you're doing it to explore these issue, than fine, if you do it in nuanced way. It's something that happens all too often in real life and should be represented in fiction, but don't do "caricatures" of abuse.

I'll admit, I do go the Mrs. Shinra was murdered route.

Spoiler

I try to make her far from perfect. I guess it fits with my view of President Shinra as someone who would view people as possessions, by their use to him and would discard a woman who wouldn't be "his".

I blame this poem http://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/browning/section3.rhtml . We read it in a Victorian Lit class and the discussion about how this powerful man viewed his wife as something to be owned.

But I could easily have a background where she died of natural causes. And I go the phycological abuse route with Rufus, which I would like to see more of because not all abuse is the kind that leaves physical marks not all abusers are over the top monsters.

 

[jazzflower92]

Yeah, where is Mrs.Shinra anyway. Is she dead or alive?

 

[CameoAmalthea]

She's dead, that's mentioned in Case of Shinra. Her death is one of the dates Rufus tries when trying to guess the passcode to get out of the locked panic room he's dumped in after escaping his office after Weapon's Attack. He tries her birthday, and the day she dies, which implies she was important to the President. Since the passcode is Rufus's birthday, we know she died some time after he was born. Although it could have been the next day if you want to go the complications with childbirth route.

 

[jazzflower92]

She's dead, that's mentioned in Case of Shinra. Her death is one of the dates Rufus tries when trying to guess the passcode to get out of the locked panic room he's dumped in after escaping his office after Weapon's Attack. He tries her birthday, and the day she dies, which implies she was important to the President. Since the passcode is Rufus's birthday, we know she died some time after he was born. Although it could have been the next day if you want to go the complications with childbirth route.

Okay that matter is cleared up.

Hey, anyone want to talk about how Genesis is portrayed in fan fiction. Most often he is portrayed as a prima donna who has a narcissistic streak in him. He often comes off as ungrateful for what he has and has the tendency to complain. He is also depicted sometimes as being a womanizer. All these depictions tend to take place before he turned against Shinra.

 

[Strangelove]

i think it's hard to come up with characterisation for genesis because he most the majority of the game quoting poetry rather than having actual dialogue

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

If that's how fanfiction does him, it sounds pretty true to canon, with exception to the womanizer bit.

 

[jazzflower92]

If that's how fanfiction does him, it sounds pretty true to canon, with exception to the womanizer bit.

The womanizing bit is to further contrast him with Sephiroth so they can be more different from each other. Mainly because of the fact that Sephiroth has shown to be asexual. Making Genesis girl crazy also plays into his narcissistic personality because fans imagine him really using his status to get chicks.

 

[Splintered]

Sephiroth is a bit of anomaly in my head. Especially for the "fix Sephiroth" fics. When it happens, it rubs me the wrong way, but I never blame the author for it. It feels like that 0 to 100 in the crazy meter was so sudden, it's hard to find a way to stop his descent into madness that would please everybody.

Probably one of the best fics I ever read, and certainly tops the "most famous" time travel fix it fics, had Sephiroth stay sane because he realized his mother was Lucrecia.

I thought about it for awhile. It's a possibility, the revelation of Jenova is when he first started breaking down. But I still feel that there's something loose in Sephiroth, hidden nepotism, something. I remember playing the Nieblheim scene and watching Sephiroth laugh about having a family, and thinking the same thing as Tifa "he's got a coldness around him"- there's a slight discomfort.

But I also like the CC counterpart, where he was a genuinely nice guy, who was pushed to the edge because of Shinra.

I feel like there's a middle ground, that it's a product of his environment, but also ego. I dunno.

Maybe it's just me not wanting Sephiroth to be fixed.

 

[Rydeen]

I'll admit, I do go the Mrs. Shinra was murdered route.

Spoiler

I try to make her far from perfect. I guess it fits with my view of President Shinra as someone who would view people as possessions, by their use to him and would discard a woman who wouldn't be "his".

Thank you for subverting it, because in and of itself it is not unreasonable at all. At this point every time I see it I tend to hold my breath, because when it's a main focus of the story it's almost always done poorly, formulaic, and without any real character development. There is also the whole spiel with President Shinra authorizing experiments to be done on his son, thus "justifying" his flaws.

Hey, anyone want to talk about how Genesis is portrayed in fan fiction. Most often he is portrayed as a prima donna who has a narcissistic streak in him. He often comes off as ungrateful for what he has and has the tendency to complain. He is also depicted sometimes as being a womanizer. All these depictions tend to take place before he turned against Shinra.

Aren't these all reasonable assumptions, though? He was a rich kid with a seemingly strong support system who responded by burning down his hometown and killing a whole bunch of innocent people. Whereas Sephiroth had no one except for his friends, who all died. Genesis was motivated by ego (and he was obviously very competitive and wanted to be special, probably to validate the fact that he and his colleagues really were different). Sephiroth was too, but that was after his life fell apart completely. On another note, I would really appreciate it if someone could convince me that this game has good characters because I would like to enjoy this game, but I can't get into most of the characters' struggles because the plot and characterization is so disjointed and doesn't seem to care at all about the inner motivations or emotional relevance of anyone except Zack.

 

[Skan]

Okay that matter is cleared up.

Hey, anyone want to talk about how Genesis is portrayed in fan fiction. Most often he is portrayed as a prima donna who has a narcissistic streak in him. He often comes off as ungrateful for what he has and has the tendency to complain. He is also depicted sometimes as being a womanizer. All these depictions tend to take place before he turned against Shinra.

So, with the caveat that my reading of Genesis is very, very colored by Sinnatious's characterization of him in "The Fifth Act" and "Beloved" ...

Canon does establish him as:
1. self-absorbed (not sure I would consider him narcissistic per se, but he's incredibly set into his own worldview/mind and convinced of his own vision)
2. ungrateful (killed his foster parents)
3. learned/educated (Loveless interpretations)
4. impulsive, fiery (literally), and moody (maybe intensified by his degradation, but this aspect of his character is obviously meant to contrast sharply with Sephiroth, who is cool as ice).
5. manipulative (interactions with Angeal and Sephiroth as he tries to bring them over to his side)
6. somewhat of a loner (never one for group activities)
7. very affected and dramatic (in his movements and speech)
8. ... obviously has a few screws missing, but what SOLDIER doesn't?

What I don't see from canon:
1. Him complaining unnecessarily about petty things. Because let's face it, when you're rotting away, I think you have the right to whine a little bit about your fate/situation. It wasn't his fault that he was experimented upon as a baby. It doesn't justify his actions at all, but he certainly has a right to throw a tantrum over it. If only the tantrum didn't involve harming other people ...
2. Womanizing: I don't see him as a womanizer at all. If anything, he seems more like the dismissive type ... you know, the kind to not really pay attention or notice anyone who doesn't interest/engage/matter to him.

Some other bits of fanon regarding Genesis, which I think do work:
1. Skilled at magic (so basically Sephiroth's the swordsman, Angeal's the hand-to-hand specialist, Genesis is the mage): Given his predilection towards materia/magic-casting, I can kind of believe this.
2. He's a thespian: Given his love of drama, as well as his affectations, I can also see this being true. Also, he's based off Gackt, who's a performer, so ...
3. He's shrewd/witty: I like to pretend that he has just gone utterly insane by CC, thus explaining his total lameness in the game.
4. Issues with authority: Extrapolated from his mood swings and temperament.

Angeal must've been the one to bridge the friendship between Genesis and Sephiroth. I see no other way they could've become friends.

It's also fun to think about what effect, if any, Angeal's socio-economic background has on Genesis's character.

@ Hououin Kyouma: Take the following with a grain of salt. It's just how I read the game.

Angeal -- Your dream is to rid the world of monsters. You wake up one day to learn your best friend deserted you. When you chase after him to figure out what's up, he tells you that he's a monster, you're a monster (you grow a wing!), and neither of you guys are human anymore. Your entire world is overturned, and your dream kind of crashes into the ground, and you're left purposeless and confused. (Yeah, I find it hard to empathize with him too.)

Genesis -- You're a dying monster and bitter at the people who killed you and turned you into a monster at birth (i.e. Shinra), so you stage a rebellion to get back at them while you run around looking for a cure. You also meanwhile have no idea what purpose you have in life anymore, since you're a monster; childhood dreams of being a hero crumble, because monsters can't be heroes.

Note that Genesis's overarching storyline is an almost perfect reflection of Sephiroth's with minor variations. They both discover their heritage, they both become incredibly bitter and hateful towards Shinra, and then they both decide they're going to blow up the whole world. Genesis is given a chance at redemption, while Sephiroth is not.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Thank you for subverting it, because in and of itself it is not unreasonable at all. At this point every time I see it I tend to hold my breath, because when it's a main focus of the story it's almost always done poorly, formulaic, and without any real character development. There is also the whole spiel with President Shinra authorizing experiments to be done on his son, thus "justifying" his flaws.

Experiments? Really?

If there were experiments he'd show signs of it, and while his eyes are blue they aren't exactly mako blue.

I do think that children's behavior, into adulthood, can be influenced by their parents or other childhood events, especially traumatic ones, but it's logical. A kicked dog will bite, a puppy beaten with a broom will run from brooms, and human children too can learn to fear certain things based on trauma, but if you're throwing in broad terrible things in your fic (experimented on, beaten) it's unlikely you're going to know what the exact effects will be.

I also think maybe people assume Rufus is worse off than he is, he's some warped unempathetic sadist, he's just a ruthlessly pragmatic and a bit of a jerk sometimes, but not out of meanness so much as bluntness and impatience. He's goal focused.

I think he has issues, for sure, but the psychological abuse we see in canon is enough to explain those. He felt like his father thought he wasn't good enough "a loser", he thought he was too weak, so he learned to hide his tears behind laughter, he felt neglected and unloved so he told himself love was pointless, he didn't need it or anyone. He hated his father and wanted to be better than him, while all the while craving his approval, which is probably no different than plenty of children. For some these feelings are teenage restlessness, for others they are true and remain.

I guess I see flaws as something you don't have to "justify" because they aren't "all ok" because he had a bad childhood, but they should be logical, and come from a believable place. The goal is for the character to be understandable, and sympathy to come from understanding, not that bad circumstances magically erase culpability.

Toph: I'm just saying that considering his messed up family and how he was raised, he could have turned out a lot worse.
Katara: You're right, Toph. Let's go find him and give him a medal. The "Not-As-Much-Of-A-Jerk-As-You-Could-Have-Been Award"!

As for Rufus's mother, I'm not sure if I exactly subvert it, but I try to write decent story.

Spoiler

My Mrs. Shinra is a socialite named Rachel Radcliff, later Rachel Shinra. She was born to the old aristocracy which meant money and a good name but no real power since the by the time she was born the world had abandoned feudalism in favor or laissez-faire capitalism. The old wealthy land owners were looked on as sort of useless. Rachel wanted to be important, wanted to be at the center of wear things happened, if she'd been born in an earlier time she would have done all she could to marry a prince, but in the modern times the best she could do was Mr. Shinra. She really did think him the best. He was rugged sort of handsome, ten years her senior, which was alluring to an eighteen year old just out of finishing school, a real man, and if she was with him she'd be the most important woman in the world. She had her own projects, of course, she ran charities and set up scholarships, but all within the bounds of what a "proper lady" should do. She wanted to be a lady, glamorous, feminine, wielding power behind the thrown.

Mr. Shinra wanted to ties to the old upper class out of pride, to shed the idea of being new money and not part of the club, even if the club was obsolete. Rachel was beautiful, a young, delicate thing with large blue eyes and a dancer's build. And such fire, yes, she was a tiny little thing, but she knew what she wanted and she would get it. She amused him, captivated him, and she would give him a proper heir, born of the Shinra line and one of the oldest most respectable families in the Eastern world.

Only...she didn't conceive. They tried for years and they didn't conceive.

Then Rachel found out about an artist from the slums who'd fathered a bastard child, an old high school sweet heart who'd come to Midgar to be nearer to Mr. Shinra, thinking they might be together. She realized that they probably would have been, but the artist was poor and marrying her wouldn't have conferred any benefits. She wasn't angry, she'd married him for his position, but she wanted to be the most important woman in his world, not the one he'd settled for, not the one who after all that couldn't give him a child. When it had come so easily to his mistress.

At last she did conceive. She thought if she gave him a baby everything would be better. He'd love her again. It was a difficult pregnancy. She nearly miscarried, and spent the bulk of it confined to bed or a wheel chair (although the President insisted on that more than the doctors, he didn't want her to do anything that might harm his future heir). She felt so trapped them, a slave to one she carried, her body no longer her own but maybe it never had been, not since she married him.

The baby came early, but he survived, though it was a close call. He was very small, her Rufus, tiny and fragile. She was told she would never have another child. At least she had him though, even small now he was a son, a Shinra heir. But it didn't make her happy, not the way she thought it would. For months following the birth she was depressed, she had to force herself to hold her child and feed him. She did though, because she was going to be a mother now, the best mother, but it didn't seem to make her husband love her again.

She took some joy in Rufus as he grew older. He was so like her, though she wondered if that would hurt him in the long run. He was beautiful, almost feminine, and did not take after his father aside from his eyes. In contrast, the bastard child, who came to work for the company as a teenager, looked the spitting image of his father as a young man. She wondered again if she'd somehow failed.

Although it wasn't just Lazard's mother who caught the President's attention. There were other indiscretions. One time she'd caught her husband with the secretary, the secretary of all people! Didn't her husband understand he wasn't supposed to want anyone else! That she was supposed to be his focus, or at very least, his attentions should be on their son! Their family!

At least the world still thought her beautiful. The people called her their princess. Flashing cameras followed her. She liked the attention, but it it difficult to do things in secret. Her role in life was to be a distraction, a pretty distraction, look at lovely Mrs. Shinra handing out toys or orphans or volunteering at a hospital. But how to get time to herself. How to find a way to have her own secret indiscretions. Rufus had been away at school for years, her marriage bed was cold, and what did she have but the admiring eyes of other men. She tried to be careful when she took a lover.

President Shinra could not stand to be embarrassed. A man who controlled the world but could not control his own wife would be a laughing stock. If they divorced it would be a media circus, not the sort of press he wanted and what would it do Rufus? What if he sided with his mother, what is she twisted the boy's mind against him? That boy was too much like her, Rufus was his son, his heir and most his alone to raise in his own image. Perhaps he could pay her to quietly separate, send her away because he could not stand the sight of her and that woman could not be caged or controlled. But he liked giving money to people he liked, projects he liked, he not like losing his money to people who deserved nothing from him, ingrates! He'd given her the world, how could she hurt him like this, risk embarrassing him like this!

As he mulled over what to do, Rachel got word that she'd been found out. She knew this might happen. She'd been squirreling away money for such an occasion. Enough to disappear and live in comfort. The only thing was, she couldn't bare to leave her son. She couldn't abandon him. Her husband had rarely even hugged the boy, she was the only one to give him a kind word or a smile, she was his mother and he needed her.

The Turks caught her trying to break into Rufus's boarding school. They could not let the Shinra heir be kidnapped, even by his own mother. The President did not forgive those who'd try to touch his things. She was supposed to be his, and she'd given herself away, and then tried take his son.

Her death was the sort of publicity the President wanted, a tragic accident, people crying in the streets, a shrine of flowers and pictures encircling the fountain in Sector 8 and the Shinra building itself. The public memorial was the greatest spectacle the city had ever seen. All other news stopped, worries about the dead in Wutai, the rising cost of electricity, or rise in monster attacks all stopped, for the moment eclipsed by the loss of Lady Shinra, the people's princess. In that moment, all the people of Midgar mourned together. The President was glad of that, he thought Rachel would have loved this, all these people adoring her, and the President was glad for the distraction, the unity, and the love this bought him as the grieving husband and single father.

Not that her death bought her forgiveness. Alive she'd been more trouble than she was worth. Her funeral was a small private affair, the press were kept away. The President did not attend. The eleven year old Rufus was there, alone save for Tseng, the Turk who guarded him and held his hand as they lay his mother in the ground.

So, with the caveat that my reading of Genesis is very, very colored by Sinnatious's characterization of him in "The Fifth Act" and "Beloved" ...

I think "The Fifth Act" did a really good job with Genesis, his "Loveless" quoting made a lot more sense and was more enjoyable (read enjoyable rather than sort of bearable) than in the game.

I think the issue is diluting the characters. Some people come like Genesis because of the "The Fifth Act" so their versions of the character are based on that, and so fanon becomes a copy of a copy of a copy, rather than different authors giving their own takes on the canon characters.

I'll admit, I am influenced by other authors. Licorice's fic made me like Rufus/Tseng as a ship and the idea that Tseng was raised by Veld. Cherry was the first writer who made me consider President Shinra murdering his wife as an option (though she's sense dropped that theory). But in both cases, I went back to the canon and my own head and came up with my own stories and interpretations. I think, to some extent it's fun to share worlds, to borrow, and if a writer does a character well then it's fine to take their version. I'm flattered that Cherry adopted my version of Nunchaku, my version of Knives Turk is basically Lic's versions in all but name and I like her version of Legend, and I like Cherry's version of Katana and Two-Guns. I think to some extent it's fine to share and take (especially with characters like the BC Turks which are more blank slates or sharing OC characters).

However, when dealing with fleshed out canon characters, I feel like we lose sight of who the characters are when our influence is not he character but someone else's interpretation. It's like writing an essay on a book by reading Spark Notes or other essays instead of the book, rather than in addition to the book. I think if you base your fic on canon and are influenced by fanon it's fine, just like you can have outside sources guide your interpretation when doing literary analysis, but you should have canon as your basis.

At a con in LA I once met a Reno and Rufus cosplayer who I went to greet seeing as I was cosplaying Rufus and love these characters. But they were putting on fake British accents and cosplaying solely based on the youtube show "The Shinra Files" (which I don't watch because the parody is too OOC for me to find funny, but that's just me). So they were doing parody of parody with no sense of the true characters and it felt to me like we weren't even in the same fandom. Because I love Rufus Shinra, and they loved a parody that was something else all together.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Genesis is a whiner, yeah. Remember how he said Sephiroth's fame should have been his own?

Really, all three of them are petulant and whiny. Anyone who thinks where they come from determines who they are has never stopped thinking like a child.

 

[jazzflower92]

Genesis is a whiner, yeah. Remember how he said Sephiroth's fame should have been his own?

Really, all three of them are petulant and whiny. Anyone who thinks where they come from determines who they are has never stopped thinking like a child.

Then again Genesis in canon is a spoiled brat who seems to always get what he wants and takes his friends for granted.

And with Sephiroth I see him as being a child who had to grow up fast but never got to emotionally, socially and maybe even mentally mature into an adult. He could also be seen as a prodigy child who has been trained all his life to be above the rest and was always told he was special. This robbed him of any skills to personally connect with people and to socialize with others.

 

[Skan]

@ CameoAmalthea: I don't think there's much to dilute in Genesis's character. In canon, his primary form of communication is poetry, and throughout the entire game, we pretty much only get one side of him, i.e. the bitter, irrational, monstrous side. Even if you ignore all his lines and just focus on his actions in the game, it can be hard to separate his actions/desires/motivations from Hollander's, since he was taking orders from Hollander 3/4 of the game (and then also trying to kill Hollander the last 1/4 of the game).

Couple this with the fact that Sinnatious is the only writer (to my knowledge) who has managed to wrangle out a decent, compelling characterization of him, and you wander into the territory of "copy of a copy." But what's the only other option? To write him as a lamesauce, poetry-spouting machine as he's portrayed in canon? How many different angles can you take on Genesis and still have him be recognizable as Genesis? How many different ways can you have him be recognizable as Genesis and then make him likeable?

I mean, there are some ideas I'd love to see explored more: how Genesis went from hero-worshipping Sephiroth to being jealous of him (what was the turning point?), why Angeal and Genesis are even close friends, how they became friends with Sephiroth (who would've been 1st Class already by the time they joined SOLDIER, as I understand it, so that's a pretty large rank gap), who the hell was this "good boy" Genesis that Gillain spoke of, where Angeal got his extreme sense of duty and honor, etc. It's possible I've missed an entire corner of FF7 fandom here, but I can't find these character studies at all.


@ Martha: Wasn't that more an acknowledgement of how media blew Sephiroth's actions in the war out of proportion? I also read a hint of "If only I weren't degrading, I would've ended the war and gotten your fame, but alas, I was degrading and so I deserted, and you're lucky that I did." Very bitter and entitled.

All three of them are brittle, weak characters who think inside a box and have huge blind spots, and what's worse is that none of them realize it. Zack has basically no influence on them. I wish he'd at least had the wits to tell them, "You're not what they make you, you're what you make yourself!" or something cheesy like that instead of, "Those are the wings of an angel!!!!" and "SOLDIERs aren't monsters!" and "Where's your honor?!" C'mon, Zack, you aren't helping here ...

 

[Ryushikaze]

At least Angeal went out because he was worried his degradation was going to turn him into a vicious monster mentally, and he wanted to die with honor.

Genesis and Sephypoo have no excuse.
I'd be willing to bet Genepoo got his redemption not because he asked for it, but because Zack did.

 

[Clement Rage]

To be fair to Angeal and Genesis, do you think once they grew those wings, the Science department would just have let them continue working for SOLDIER? It was rebel or risk being dissected.