Fanon Stereotypes! or How We Learned to Continue Worrying and Rant a Bunch

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Ontari-airy-airy-o. It's where I live, eh?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Which part of Ontario is The Edge of My Seat in? =P

Most of my time spent there was around Guelph, Waterloo, Kitchener and Elora. Some Toronto and a few other incidental areas, but mostly those.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Near Toronto. Suburbia, commuter-land, endless strip malls, highway exchanges, soccer domes and public parks.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^Hey! That sounds like where I live in So-Cal!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

We have less surf and more snow. Sadly.

 

[Starling]

I'm near Quebec. The accents and amount of slang people use varies. It's been a while since I was in Toronto and even then I never saw that much of it.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

My boyfriend is from Mississauga, which is near Toronto, and he says "eh" and "aboot".

As for "yo". It is a verbal tic you see in American English, as well as "you know" and "right". Words you just tack on the end of a sentence that don't need to be there but you say them anyway.

I think writing believable slang, in a cadence that sounds natural, is challenging if you aren't exposed to slang. It's easy for it to slip into caricature or just sound off. However, I don't think doing it at all is the issue, so much as doing it poorly. In the Japanese, Reno uses slang that characterizes him as inner city/slangy, and yo is the America equivalent. Although if we're writing slang, his whole cadence should be slang, not just "yo." It has to fit.

 

[Ite]

Recent import to Toronto here, completely blown away by the accent and dialect in this city. Eh eh eh.

Glad someone mentioned the Yo thing, I thought it was canon.

 

[Starling]

Isn't Toronto the most culturally diverse city? That'd mean you could probably find all kinds of accents and dialects, from the ones that fit a stereotype to those that don't.

It seems when a headcanon gets popular enough, people start to just assume it's canon and then people start losing sight of the actual character amidst the fanon.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Good insight.

Although I think it's debatable as to whether the "yo thing" is canon. It's canon in the original Japanese (at least the Japanese equivalent), and I'm not sure if failure to translate it makes it "non canon".

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

So it looks like the whole Cid and Reno thing is just stereotyping based on accent, just like people turn Barret into a black stereotype just because he talks "black".

Another one that bugs me is when Red XIII is turned into an idiot pet, when his defining trait is that he and his species are a lot smarter than any human. That'd be like turning Santa skinny and moody when he's known for being fat and jolly.

 

[Starling]

Skinny Santa isn't so bad as long as you keep his jolly disposition. Heck, beardless Santa works sometimes too, usually when going for a younger version that gets one later or his successor.

I haven't seen Nanaki portrayed that way, even though that may be because I haven't read a lot of fics that feature him prominently. In those I've seen, he's clearly smart, though sometimes prone to acting like the kid he still is by his species' standards.

 

[Skan]

Skinny Santa isn't so bad as long as you keep his jolly disposition. Heck, beardless Santa works sometimes too, usually when going for a younger version that gets one later or his successor.

I haven't seen Nanaki portrayed that way, even though that may be because I haven't read a lot of fics that feature him prominently. In those I've seen, he's clearly smart, though sometimes prone to acting like the kid he still is by his species' standards.

Nanaki's difficult to balance. In the first bit of the game, he's written as a contemplative, distant character, but post-Cosmo Canyon, he starts acting much younger and gives air to more insecurities than he did before.

Also, "ZOUNDS!!!" anyone?

I'm surprised a lot of authors tend to sweep his time in Hojo's lab under the rug. Well, even FF7 did it, so maybe I shouldn't be shocked ...

 

[jazzflower92]

Nanaki's difficult to balance. In the first bit of the game, he's written as a contemplative, distant character, but post-Cosmo Canyon, he starts acting much younger and gives air to more insecurities than he did before.

Also, "ZOUNDS!!!" anyone?

I'm surprised a lot of authors tend to sweep his time in Hojo's lab under the rug. Well, even FF7 did it, so maybe I shouldn't be shocked ...

Fan fiction fodder!

But yeah not a lot of fan fiction writers actually focus that much on Nanaki. One fanfiction idea would be interesting in my opinion is what if he was captured when he was really young and Sephiroth was still being raised in Shinra's headquarters. Yeah, it would be an Alternate Universe idea but it seems no one has done that kind of concept.

 

[Starling]

The way I see the way Nanaki acts before and after Cosmo Canyon is that maybe he was putting extra effort in being treated like an adult when as Bugenhagen said, he's still young. After Cosmo Canyon, he didn't feel the need to hide that he's still a kid and so acted his age.

Anyway, most fics that focus on him seem to be about him telling a story to his cub after he's outlived everyone else.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

The way I see the way Nanaki acts before and after Cosmo Canyon is that maybe he was putting extra effort in being treated like an adult when as Bugenhagen said, he's still young. After Cosmo Canyon, he didn't feel the need to hide that he's still a kid and so acted his age.

^This is exactly why his sudden personality switch never bothered me much, it makes sense.

 

[Skan]

It makes me wonder if Nanaki bothers with putting on that contemplative, distant mask for strangers post-FF7, or if he now thinks it's not worth it. I imagine his inner voice sounds a lot more immature than the fireside story voice people tend to pin on him since that's what he defaults to after Cosmo Canyon.

Then again, there are some characters whose inner and outer voices are completely different (e.g. Tidus).

 

[Ite]

Speaking of inner voices, after that whole Gilligan thing I have no idea what constitutes canonical Nanaki.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Something that comes up that annoys me is when people treat Rufus Shinra and President Shinra Sr as interchangeable, often erasing President Shinra all together and simply having Rufus be President for the entire compilation.

President Shinra is an interesting character and shouldn't be erased. Sure, we know more about Rufus's personality since he's in the OG longer and is in AC, but that doesn't mean President Shinra isn't important enough to exist on his own.

Then treating them as interchangeable, having Rufus as President or in charge of the Turks pre-OG sort of erases who Rufus is as a character, because it necessitates him doing all the thing the President did. Of course, I realize not everyone is aware of BC, but President Shinra is in the OG.

 

[Keveh Kins]

Something that comes up that annoys me is when people treat Rufus Shinra and President Shinra Sr as interchangeable, often erasing President Shinra all together and simply having Rufus be President for the entire compilation.

This one annoys me because I think it also often cuts out an important part of Rufus' psychology and character that can only exist through President Shinra, namely that he tries to define himself as being the opposite of his father. His father tries to rule with money and politics, Rufus says "Screw that, I'm not being like him, I'll make people fear me." So he berates his employees for any dissent or failure, whereas President Shinra tries to coax people around to his way of thinking, like when he tells Reeve to take a vacation after he disagrees with the plate dropping. Cid's another great example of their differing approaches. Pres. Shinra keeps Cid down by cutting funding for the programme he's involved in. Rufus just shows up at his door with armed guards and tries to take what he wants from him.

Long story short, I always figured the whole way Rufus operates is guided by his desire to be different from his father. I reckon it would have peeved him royally when Tifa says "He likes to make speeches, just like his father." Because he's been trying so hard not to be like him. So when you take President Shinra away, or just amalgamate him and Rufus, you're losing out on a very interesting part of Rufus' character.

Aheh heh, rant over. *pulls at collar* It uh, it also wrecks my head when fanfic authors have Reno say 'yo' at the end of every sentence.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

Exactly, Rufus's character is essentially defined by his relationship to his father which is obvious even with just the OG as you've so brilliantly summed up. Then if you actually take the compilation into account and look into Rufus character in depth (which I think you should if your writing compilation compliant works and Rufus is going to be a main character in your fic - just a bit of research), Rufus's entire character arc is dealing with his feelings of inadequacy because of his father's harshness and neglect. He is trying to prove himself a worthy heir while simultaneously hating his father.

What does Rufus Shinra want?

To please his father. To destroy his father. To be worth of his father. To be better than his father.

Boy's got issues.

Although

Spoiler: Long rant about Rufus Shinra, coving things I've probably said before and most of you are bored of hearing

. I do think Rufus wants to rule through politics, Rufus's politics are more Machiavellian in that he believes that to main order and power you must do whatever's necessary.

The President sees that this AVALANCHE thing won't die out.

His plan: Destroy your own city to crush them completely. Cover it up, so that it looks like they did. With AVALANCHE left looking even more unsympathetic, the movement will die, no more terrorists will rise to take the place of the ones destroyed in sector 7.

Rufus's thoughts: AVALANCHE is all ready unsympathetic, hundreds died when they attacked the reactors. Terrorists keep arising because ShinRa ruins lives, which breeds hatred and rebellion. By destroying sector 7 you create the risk of more people turning against ShinRa is they find out (and people will find out).

"Work at Shinra, get your pay. If a terrorist attacks, the Shinra
army will help you.It looks perfect on the outside."

But it's a lie. Rufus knows it as well as AVALANCHE. ShinRa spends money on propaganda, trying to buy the people's loyalties without actually addressing the issues. But Rufus doesn't see the point of all trying to get the people's hearts and minds, a little fear will keep people in line without wasting money on lies to placate the people. Also, actually dealing with problems in an up front manner rather than wasting civilian lives and covering it up.

So how does Rufus deal with terrorists?

Arrest them. Execute them publicly to send a message about what happens when you threaten the peace. (And yes, he lied about the exact reasons for the executions, but it was politically savvy to do so).

I think both Rufus and President Shinra are equally political and equally ruthless.

President Shinra: "I can do whatever I want and buy the people's affections so it doesn't matter if a few lives or towns are destroyed along the way, just cover it up and keep the people happy"

Rufus Shinra: "Dedicate our resources to maintaining security. Execute anyone who is a threat to security and use it to send a message, but deaths should only come when the serve the purpose of securing our power.. Minimize collateral and stop wasting money on propaganda."

As to Reno saying yo, I think that slang is it's own language and can't be faked without learning it.

I recently interviewed to gain admittance to a small music school and as part of the process was meeting with teacher and telling her about myself and my back ground. I mentioned that I'd always liked coming up with sounds, but grew up in the south in the projects, so there wasn't a lot of opportunity to study music out side of church. When she commented on my lack of accent I told her that I'd worked to hide my accent after I was placed with wealthy guardians because I wanted to pass as one of them.

The teacher said she was impressed because it can be hard to pick up accents and that it's almost a sort of bilingualism. That ebonics is it's own language and it should be respected, and honestly, I think slang can be beautiful. But, I do think it is it's own language, whether you're writing American "ghetto talk" (and I use the word ghetto not to be appropriative of African American vernacular, but because that's how I'd describe the way people in my neighborhood spoke, and the way I spoke before I unlearned it) or cockney English, you have be careful and research how this language sounds or risk reducing it to stereotypes.

I think writers should study slang like they would a language if they want to write a character who speaks that way. "Yo" can be a perfectly natural thing to say, my best friend grew up in the Chicago slums and lived rough awhile and yo rolls right off the tip if his tongue along with a lot of swear words and a lazy sort of cadence. Where yo doesn't fit if the sentence seems as though it was written by someone who had never heard anything but the Queen English in their life and didn't bother researching other ways of speaking.

I think we can sum up most annoying fanon things with, fic writers who don't research. I don't care if you disregard fanon or disregard the rules of the English language, but I want yo to do so purposefully, having researched the canon and the rules you choose to break.

On the vane, people who write Elena as though she'd been a Turk forever. Again, in the OG she joins AFTER Rufus is President, which is after you're out of Midgar, it's a decent ways into the game. And I really feel like she has to be a rookie because it makes her mistakes seem a product of her youth and not merely incompetence. And given she's the only female Turk in the OG, we don't want her to also be the only overly emotional, sometimes incompetent one. Elena is the way she is because she's new, not just because she's a girl. You take away the rookie thing, and suddenly there are unfortunate implications.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The way you describe Rufus make me think there's an Inception in the works.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

The teacher said she was impressed because it can be hard to pick up accents and that it's almost a sort of bilingualism. That ebonics is it's own language and it should be respected, and honestly, I think slang can be beautiful. But, I do think it is it's own language, whether you're writing American "ghetto talk" (and I use the word ghetto not to be appropriative of African American vernacular, but because that's how I'd describe the way people in my neighborhood spoke, and the way I spoke before I unlearned it) or cockney English, you have be careful and research how this language sounds or risk reducing it to stereotypes.

One of my few gifts (if one can call it that) aside from an unerring sense of direction, is an ability to pick up accents very rapidly; after six months in a place I (can) sound as if I've lived there always. Even after a minute or so on the phone with someone who speaks with an accent, I'll start sounding like them. This used to happen without my being aware of it, but several times people thought I was mocking them, so I've become more alert to my own mimic tendencies.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I tend to do that as well, and also shift accents/dialects depending on who I speak to throughout the day. I've caught myself doing it from one sentence to the next when among mixed company with whom I've become familiar.

 

[Clement Rage]

Rufus's politics are more Machiavellian in that he believes that to main order and power you must do whatever's necessary.

Well, yes, but I think Machiavelli is actually more like Elder President Shinra. Everyone quotes 'it is better to be feared than loved' but forgets that the next line is 'if you cannot be both'.

Machiavelli is actually pretty strong on good PR. His policy is 'do what's necessary to keep your rule secure, but try to stay on your people's good side as much as possible.'

I've always liked Elena, she's quirky but actually the most dangerous of the three Turks you fight. Weirdly, they almost seem to bully her a lot of the time, 'don't act so weak', 'you talk too much'. When she wants to fight in Wutai, they don't. She doesn't want to fight in Midgar, they do.

Edit: I'd love to have an ear for accents, but I really, really don't. Shame.