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Deleted member 13557
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Did think that it was rather unfitting lol
The montage too. Like, the main character dies and then you're seemingly watching the intro to a 90's sitcom
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Tetsujin
he/they
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- Tets
One of us! One of us!
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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- Smooth Criminal
LMAO what changed? I could've sworn you said you liked him. I'm really curious.
In the end there's only 1, one-winged angel. And that shittier alpha model ain't it.
And Ayaka's vocals really made that scene for me. "Why" as someone dies is the heaviest, most common question someone asks as they die and that songs lyrics are pretty depressing when you read them. It helps knowing what it says when you hear it.
D
Deleted member 13557
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I said I liked his design and his sword.LMAO what changed? I could've sworn you said you liked him. I'm really curious.
In the end there's only 1, one-winged angel. And that shittier alpha model ain't it.
His dialogue makes me want to stick sharp objects into my ears and eyes
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Yeah. That's a normal side effect. 
You never mentioned what happened to him, however. What'd you think of that? Wasn't that strange?
You never mentioned what happened to him, however. What'd you think of that? Wasn't that strange?
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Deleted member 13557
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Yeah, he was taken away. Weird.Yeah. That's a normal side effect.
You never mentioned what happened to him, however. What'd you think of that? Wasn't that strange?
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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You noticed they didn't have the normal SOLDIER emblem either, right?
Just put that in the back of your mind. It'll be relevant later on.
Also, did you notice a very strange visitor in the Banora underground?
Just put that in the back of your mind. It'll be relevant later on.
Also, did you notice a very strange visitor in the Banora underground?
ForceStealer
Double Growth
There is (there isn't a Sector 6 plate, a distinction the remake flubs), the church is just on the very edge of the city and between plates (under the reactor and all), so it can get rain and stuff.
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D
Deleted member 13557
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Nope
I mean, I fought the materia from the Sephiroth fight again, lol. And I fought some makonoids.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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You have no idea how long I fought there.
For me, the best part was watching Zack grow up, his journey from being this happy go lucky dude who "wants to be a hero", to this more mature man who is forced to become a hero through circumstances against his will, and despite that keeps his positivism, his dreams, and honor, was just chilling to me. One of the best character progressions I've seen in a game. Changed him from a minor, mostly insignificant character to, in my opinion, the lost member of out party that we'll never have. Hell, it feels to me like we lost the main character before the game even begun, and we're now exploring what the secondary characters would do if the "main character never existed".
The missions never bothered me as much because I don't mind games where I can do a lot of optional grinding, it was fun in the car during vacations and what not.
I personally still don't recommend Dirge, but you do you, can't wait for you to play remake, it's rare to see a newcomer play the OG first.
My friend and I just got knights of the round and are now off to go kill Sephiroth. Idiot somehow forgot to loot "ultima weapon" though from ultima weapon -.-'
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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I too enjoy grinding missions as I drive myself to work.
It's a shame he won't experience fighting the planet Herself now.
Silence, knave! He must experience the final chapter, where Vincent's ex called him for one last fling that just went out of control.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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I mean. Seeing what happens post AC in Edge is important.
D
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Cloud will always be the main character in my heart. The guy is one of my favourite protagonists of all time.
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
I dunno, Zack has always been too flat for me to really like him the way I like Cloud. He's a pretty happy guy, which is a nice contrast to most of the other characters, but I feel like his personal beliefs just weren't challenged enough in the game. I think he needed a "wait, are we the bad guys?" moment, which he only sort of gets in Nibelhiem.
In the original game he was mostly just a character there to represent everything that Cloud thought he was, a tough, self-assured 1st Class SOLDIER. Cloud succeeding where he failed in the Nibelhiem reactor was a to show that it didn't matter that Cloud was never in SOLDIER, he was capable of great things regardless, a complete rejection of Sephiroth telling him he was nothing but a puppet.
I don't mind Zack getting more attention, but I don't like it when people call him the "real main character." I feel like that misses the point VII was getting at.
In the original game he was mostly just a character there to represent everything that Cloud thought he was, a tough, self-assured 1st Class SOLDIER. Cloud succeeding where he failed in the Nibelhiem reactor was a to show that it didn't matter that Cloud was never in SOLDIER, he was capable of great things regardless, a complete rejection of Sephiroth telling him he was nothing but a puppet.
I don't mind Zack getting more attention, but I don't like it when people call him the "real main character." I feel like that misses the point VII was getting at.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Well they're quoting what Nojima said about Zack.
Zack was constructed as a more traditional main character who's heroic, strong, up-beat, charismatic and loving. "The perfect man." He's the archetypal hero who would be considered the most likely "main character" of any story.
But he died.
And Cloud, the more nuanced, "weaker," grumpy, cool, and insecure type character takes up the mantle instead. And given that type of character, he definitely feels more multi-faceted than Zack given he is. Zack is tragic and loveable in his own straight-heroic type of way. But Cloud is given more depth given the plethora of shit and madness Cloud goes through in his build up as the hero of FFVII.
They're like two sides of the heroic coin.
Zack was constructed as a more traditional main character who's heroic, strong, up-beat, charismatic and loving. "The perfect man." He's the archetypal hero who would be considered the most likely "main character" of any story.
But he died.
And Cloud, the more nuanced, "weaker," grumpy, cool, and insecure type character takes up the mantle instead. And given that type of character, he definitely feels more multi-faceted than Zack given he is. Zack is tragic and loveable in his own straight-heroic type of way. But Cloud is given more depth given the plethora of shit and madness Cloud goes through in his build up as the hero of FFVII.
They're like two sides of the heroic coin.
Torrie
astray ay-ay-ay
Something about Zack, his character development, and his demise, and all this SOLDIER stuff speaks to me on a very personal level, which I'm still trying to explore, but yeah. Not because of the mere fact he's a traditional hero from the narrative's perspective, and it's not typical fangirling or falling for a fictional character either, it's just something... I don't know, just a fatal combo of many traits.
Cloud doesn't feel less of a main character to me at the moment, but Zack feels like another hidden main character. FF7 is like a set of nesting dolls when it comes to revealing what's behind the first impression.
Perfectly worded, Mako! I hope this duo will never cease to fascinate me.
D
Deleted member 13557
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Despite Zack's charm, it's these traits that make him, in my humblest of FF newbie opinions, leagues behind Cloud. I guess he's too ideal? His optimism and perseverance in the face of awful circumstances is great and all, but sometimes it felt overdone, maybe?
One of my favourite scenes in Crisis is when Zack breaks down in the church after Angeal dies. It gave him a more human feel, I suppose.
Cloud should've used phoenix down.
D
Deleted member 13557
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I just love Cloud's entire arc. It's the kind of thing that reminds me why I love video games
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Zack's the dream of a hero. And as Lazard said, it's the dreams that are most unreachable that are the best kinds. 
Zack's moments of vulnerability really are some of the most powerful, given he's such a stalwart optimist and hero. Which is why when he finally falls coupled with his memories and ability to fight back get broken down... It hurts the most. He's being broken down piece by piece. He's the legend that dies. An ephemeral dream of what could've been that is brushed away by reality.
Zack's moments of vulnerability really are some of the most powerful, given he's such a stalwart optimist and hero. Which is why when he finally falls coupled with his memories and ability to fight back get broken down... It hurts the most. He's being broken down piece by piece. He's the legend that dies. An ephemeral dream of what could've been that is brushed away by reality.
I think you're missing what they, and I, are saying.
This is what we are saying.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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- Smooth Criminal
On another note @ThatGuyMikey did you ever wonder why Lazard turned traitor against Shinra?