FF Newbie Watches Advent Children Complete

[Deleted member 13557]

give us your thoughts on Clouds character and his motivations

Well, he's clearly depressed, that's for sure.

Marlene said something along the lines of him never being with her, and Tifa mentioned him pushing people away. This is probably due to a combination of guilt, as he believes that he can't help anyone following the deaths of Aerith and Zack, and (just speculating) not wanting to be around his family if he dies of geostigma; he doesn't want to give them grief.

His main motivation is saving the kids, most importantly, Denzel. He's not interested in helping Shinra, as made clear early in the film, but he ends up working alongside them regardless due to having a common goal. When he goes to the City of the Ancients to track down the remnants, and fails to defeat them in order to rescue the kids, he speaks to Vincent in Vincent-terms about sins and forgiveness, which tells me that he viewed this as just another one of his failures. Cloud then decides that he wants to find his forgiveness, to be forgiven and to forgive himself. He starts with allowing Marlene to come with, then by helping in the battle against Bahamut. He has visions of Aerith and Zack. Cloud's visions of Aerith tell us that she doesn't blame Cloud at all, and that she's just happy that he came for her. Cloud's visions of Zack are basically him saying "lol need a hand from a SOLDIER? nah you got this it's good" haha.

Aerith's rain causes geostigma to be cured, the sector 5 church becomes a healing haven, Cloud gets shot (again), the remnants decay and return to the planet (or they don't because something about negative lifestream). Cloud takes Denzel into the pool of curing rain, and bathes him in it. Cloud smiles. The buster sword is nice and shiny, a momento, not a way to desperately cling onto the past. His thoughts surrounding Aerith and Zack are probably a lot more positive now.

And Sephiroth comes along after Kadaj merges with Jenova's head and is like "why do we need planets?" while giving his crazy space plans to Cloud.

I'll watch this film through uninterrupted soon. I liked it, it's goofy fun.

there used to be so many misconceptions on that that it was mind boggling

Not hard to see why. Even when I feel like I've got a hold on FF7 it turns out I still know diddly shit

 

[Deleted member 13557]

Lol it's nothing. Glad you got to see it though. Your thoughts were amusing and nostalgic.

My thoughts being "nostalgic" makes me think that the struggle I had to understand were once shared.
Surely people don't get all of this the first time 'round lol. At least, I hope not.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Naw not the first time around.

But I will say ACC made things clearer. It's a better version.

I do want to refer you to check this out.

https://thelifestream.net/novels-no...-smile-lifestream-black-and-lifestream-white/

This serves as a nice supplemental to the movie. I'm sure you can guess what this is about via the names.

 

[Deleted member 13557]

Naw not the first time around.

But I will say ACC made things clearer. It's a better version.

I do want to refer you to check this out.

https://thelifestream.net/novels-no...-smile-lifestream-black-and-lifestream-white/

This serves as a nice supplemental to the movie. I'm sure you can guess what this is about via the names.

What does ACC add? I know it's 20 minutes extra.
OTWtaS seems like a lore book lol. Maybe I should buy it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's more short stories of the characters. I enjoy it a lot.

There were a lot of scenes utilized in those 20 minutes. They helped the movie quite a bit.

 

[Stiggie]

Well, he's clearly depressed, that's for sure.

Marlene said something along the lines of him never being with her, and Tifa mentioned him pushing people away. This is probably due to a combination of guilt, as he believes that he can't help anyone following the deaths of Aerith and Zack, and (just speculating) not wanting to be around his family if he dies of geostigma; he doesn't want to give them grief.

Ding ding ding, exactly right.

There is also one more element that isn't shown as clearly in the movie, he doesn't just feel guilt over the people he's failed, he also feels guilt over being happy. He's basically found happiness, and that makes him feel guilty, like he doesn't deserve to be happy when Zack, Aerith, and so many others are dead because of him.

 

[Deleted member 13557]

Ding ding ding, exactly right.

There is also one more element that isn't shown as clearly in the movie, he doesn't just feel guilt over the people he's failed, he also feels guilt over being happy. He's basically found happiness, and that makes him feel guilty, like he doesn't deserve to be happy when Zack, Aerith, and so many others are dead because of him.

Survivors guilt, maybe?

 

[Stiggie]

Survivors guilt, maybe?

Yep, exactly that.

 

[Fangu]

"I've thought of a wonderful present for you. Shall I give you despair?"

 

[Deleted member 13557]

Shall I give you Zack Fair?

 

[ForceStealer]

What does ACC add? I know it's 20 minutes extra.
OTWtaS seems like a lore book lol. Maybe I should buy it.

OTWtaS is really really good, imo. Case of Tifa and Case of Shinra in particular both really improve the movie for me. I do think it is worth buying, but you can also read or listen to TLS' audiobooks here.

As for ACC, some of the 20 minutes was additions to the start of the Bahamut stuff (Cloud showing up to rescue Denzel and Tifa), the motorcycle chase sequence (all the stuff with Reno and Rude's helicopter), and the Sephiroth fight (there was originally no impaling or Zack.) And also small detail changes throughout.

But the more useful additions for it as a movie are a significantly extended conversation between Cloud and Rufus, Reno and Rude's conversation, the flashback of Cloud finding Denzel, and Cloud and Marlene's conversation.

It also rearranged the music to better fit the action on-screen. Mako actually posted a big list of all the changes for the front page in 2009 here.

 

[Deleted member 13557]

OTWtaS is really really good, imo. Case of Tifa and Case of Shinra in particular both really improve the movie for me. I do think it is worth buying, but you can also read or listen to TLS' audiobooks here.

As for ACC, some of the 20 minutes was additions to the start of the Bahamut stuff (Cloud showing up to rescue Denzel and Tifa), the motorcycle chase sequence (all the stuff with Reno and Rude's helicopter), and the Sephiroth fight (there was originally no impaling or Zack.) And also small detail changes throughout.

But the more useful additions for it as a movie are a significantly extended conversation between Cloud and Rufus, Reno and Rude's conversation, the flashback of Cloud finding Denzel, and Cloud and Marlene's conversation.

It also rearranged the music the better fit the action on-screen. Mako actually posted a big list of all the changes for the front page in 2009 here.

Thank you!
I've got a lot of reading to do haha

 

[Deleted member 13557]

I love how 4x cut is basically mini-omnislash.

Mega all is ridiculous, and I love it

 

[Deleted member 13557]

All party members are currently lvl 83. The grind to all party members at lvl 99 continues

 

[Deleted member 13557]

Did it. All party members at lvl 99.

Mastered all summon materia bar Alexander and Leviathan

 

[BlueCollarNerd]

That was fast.
Your posting in you acc thread not your ff7 thread fyi

 

[looneymoon]

any time the CG looks way better for a scene then immediately dips in quality for the one after it... you know

 

[Erotic Materia]

What did they do Barrett?
Really not a fan of this design.

What, you don't like Sean Paul?

 

[Deleted member 13557]

That was fast.
Your posting in you acc thread not your ff7 thread fyi

Ahhh shiiiit. Oh well

 

[Roundhouse]

I should really watch the complete edition one day, it feels like it has replaced the og like the extended LOTR did with the theatrical versions...

 

[ForceStealer]

It's way better. If someone hated AC, it won't change their mind, but if you had any other feelings about it it's a pretty undeniable improvement.

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

Just rewatched this myself after reading the Yen Press releases of OtWtaS and The Kids are Alright.
Things of note.
Geostigma is Jenova's memetic legacy being spread to spiritually vulnerable people by Sephiroth.
It doesn't actually contain Jenova's cells though. Just Sephiroth's corrupting will (that will being to continue Jenova's legacy). The Sephiroth Gene if you will.
This is why the remnants are incomplete without some actual Jenova cells.
Aerith's Great Gospel at the end seems to essentially be her own anti-stigma using the same principle.
Fun note is that she could've made her own remnants but thought it'd be weird.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well, the stigma afflicts people who do carry Jenova cells.

But the disease is caused by Sephiroth's will. He causes the Jenova cells in people to become pathogenic and the body to fight back, as if fighting an infection. And the immune response is what kills people.

Which in turns curses their spirit energy to become part of his Negative Lifestream.

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

Is there a source for that?
The stigma only afflicting those with Jenova cells isn't indicated at all in Advent Children or the books.
Vincent referring to the pathogen as the Sephiroth gene, or Jenova's memetic legacy indicates to me that it's either his will itself infecting their bodies, or it's Sephiroth Cells in the lifestream, which carry Jenova's genes in his DNA.
This makes more sense to me, since if he already had access to Jenova cells he wouldn't need the head to revive.

I haven't read the reunion files of played Dirge in over a decade so I may be missing something, but the other books are fresh in my mind.

 

[Makoeyes987]

"Jenova's mimetic legacy" and "the Sephiroth gene" are Jenova cells. It's most certainly mentioned as such in the novellas and subsequent materials.

Here is the definition of Geostigma from the Compilation of FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania.

Geostigma

「 AC 」

A mysterious illness which spread following the Meteor Crisis. It causes black spots to appear on the skin of the sufferers. There is no cure, and sufferers are gradually weakened by random attacks of pain, eventually proving fatal. This is a condition brought on by the overworking of the body’s immune system, trying to purge Jenova’s cells that have entered the body. And even more terrifyingly, the spiritual energy of the dead afflicted with Geostigma will separate from the normal cycle of life and join the Negative Lifestream — Jenova’s mimetic legacy lurking in the Lifestream — and contribute to its power to corrode away the planet.