FF7 Headcanons and Discussion

[Gym Leader Devil]

Jenova made use of more than just the visage of females. This was the line in the Japanese and English versions of the game:

その姿は……亡き母の…亡き兄のものでした。
"It looked like... our... our dead mothers... and our dead brothers."

Whether it shapeshifted entirely or just projected illusions is unclear. Also rather irrelvant, as the job got done either way.

Ah, its been a fair bit since I played that bit of the game, I'd forgotten the full line.

 

[jazzflower92]

If Jenova was a human on Spira in a past life I think she was a mother who loved her children very much.Her children were used and killed in the process to make her into what she is today.Even to this day she still has an obession with her surrogate offspring because longs for the ones she lost.

I actually think that Loz,Yazoo,and Kadaji are based on her three sons in her past life.

I also think that Jenova was created into the being she is today because someone on Spira wanted to create a Sin like creature to serve as a superweapon.However,Jenova escaped into space and began her career of destruction after that.So,they took an innocent woman and turned her into the parastic being that we currently see now.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

I've found several similarities between Jenova from FFVII and Giygas from EarthBound. Both are aliens, both are generally associated with one gender yet what their actual gender is or if they even have one is unknown, and both of them eventually become barely sentient abominations. And both of them also have a follower who ends up becoming a Big Bad(Sephy for Jenova, Porky for Giygas). Oh, and both also tend to spark up crazy fan theories surrounding them.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Since we're discussing Jenova, I just thought I'd throw in that I've been re-reading "Final Fantasy and Philosophy" (since I'm home from work sick) and Jonah Mitropoulos (whoever he is... one of you, maybe?) argues in Shinto and Alien Influences in FFVII that the history of the Cetra, and Shinra's relationship with Jenova imitates that of Japan's relationship with western, capitalistic, Christian influences. First, the shock of the new: there are aliens!; next, the friendly approach - the Europeans wear the faces of "brothers" - and an exploration of what this new relatonship can offer, which would correpond to the late 16th century pre-Edo period when Japan tenatively welcomed trade, firearms, and Christianity. This brief period was soon followed by a realisation that alien ideas and technology were a 'virus' that could destroy their world, and so the alien force was qurantined inside a rock/island.

Subsequently, after a long period of quiescence, the desire for power (Meiji period industrialisaton and modernisation) led certain elements to open up the rock/liberalise their laws regarding foreigners, and the authorities began trying to inject elements of the alien into their own people, mistakenly thinking it would led them to the promised land of eternal prosperity.

Instead, intimacy with the alien led to a breakdown in the harmonious relationship of mutual dependency between humanity and the planet they live on. The Lifestream is first drained and then polluted by alien infliuence, and needs to be cleansed in order to restore the balance.

I thought it was quite an interesting interpretation.

 

[S and G]

I always found it interesting how gamers immediately associate the brief and hinted religious aspects of FF7 with Christianity or Judaism.

This may be drawn from a few things within the game.

1) The use of the word 'God' appears several times in the game (usually in the form of "Godammit!") This instantly means that the concept of God exists.

2) There are four main places of potential religious worship that appear in the Compilation; the Sector5 Church (prominent in OG and AC), Kalm's Cathedral or "the West Church" as I believe it is called in DC (and its interior is actually a map in DC Online), the Temple of the Ancients and the fountain at the Forgotten Capital. We can all thus be in agreement that religion as a concept exists.

3) During Case of Nanaki, Cid directly refers to "God"

What I find intriguing is that these philosophies actually directly contradict many of the historical aspects of the Compilation.

For example, the Cetra are very clearly described as having a direct affinity with the Planet and worship the Planet as their creator. Not God, the Planet.

Spirit energy works in such a way that all living things die, return to the Lifestream, and are reborn as new beings. This is reincarnation - a concept which is strictly opposed by Christianity.

The Goddess Minerva, the consciousness of the Lifestream. Her very existence is a pagan ideal. And that doesn't even touch on what the summon creatures actually are.

Is it just me, or have SE messed this up?

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

3) During Case of Nanaki, Cid directly refers to "God"

He does it in the original game too, when he says "Sit your ass down in that chair and drink your Goddamn TEA!"

 

[S and G]

He does it in the origina game too, when he says "Sit your ass down in that chair and drink your Goddamn TEA!"

I mean, outside of swearing, he actually is talking about God s an entity.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I always found it interesting how gamers immediately associate the brief and hinted religious aspects of FF7 with Christianity or Judaism.

This may be drawn from a few things within the game.

1) The use of the word 'God' appears several times in the game (usually in the form of "Godammit!") This instantly means that the concept of God exists.

2) There are four main places of potential religious worship that appear in the Compilation; the Sector5 Church (prominent in OG and AC), Kalm's Cathedral or "the West Church" as I believe it is called in DC (and its interior is actually a map in DC Online), the Temple of the Ancients and the fountain at the Forgotten Capital. We can all thus be in agreement that religion as a concept exists.

3) During Case of Nanaki, Cid directly refers to "God"

What I find intriguing is that these philosophies actually directly contradict many of the historical aspects of the Compilation.

For example, the Cetra are very clearly described as having a direct affinity with the Planet and worship the Planet as their creator. Not God, the Planet.

Spirit energy works in such a way that all living things die, return to the Lifestream, and are reborn as new beings. This is reincarnation - a concept which is strictly opposed by Christianity.

The Goddess Minerva, the consciousness of the Lifestream. Her very existence is a pagan ideal. And that doesn't even touch on what the summon creatures actually are.

Is it just me, or have SE messed this up?

I think a lot of it is down to us overlaying our western religious concepts on game designed by minds raised in an eastern culture. All I kow about Shinto is what I've read in a book, so rather than pretending to be an expert on the subject, I'll just tell you what this guy Mitropolous has to say.

The Japanese word kami (or gami, as in shinigami), is usually translated as 'god' or 'spirit' , but according to somebody called Floyd Hiat Ross who wrote Shinto:The Way of Japan, "kami is more like a spiritual energy that permeates all matter. 'Kami is in nature and man is in nature also, and kami is in man.'"

Apparently the Japanese word "tsumi", which is often translated as "sin", really means something more like "polluted" or "pollution". "Sin" involves conscious choice: we choose to sin, and as a consequence, we are guilty of our sin. But even the innocent can be polluted - and are, in Advent Children. Mitropolous thesis is that just as Jenova "polluted" the Lifestream, so western culture polluted the way of Shinto.

He brings Vincent Valentine into the argument thus: Lucretia is polluted by exposing her body and her fetus to Jenova cells. Vincent is polluted by standing by and allowing this to happen. Just hearing Cloud talk about the things that have happened as a result polluted him even more. He isn't so much trying to atone for his sins as to cleanse himself of the pollution.

The Judaeo-Christian-Muslim tradition sets man in a position of privilege with respect to the rest of the natural (or created) world: the creator God, our father, has delegated to us the control and management of everything He made. This, clearly, is a very Shinra way of looking at the world. According to Mitropolous, Shinto does not put man in this same privileged position, but sees him ina symbiotic relationship with nature:"Spirit energy makes all things possible, trees, birds, and humans. Not just living things. Spirit energy makes it possible for Planets to be Planets". "Such a philosophy does not privilege human life over non-human matter, as the two are interconnected and interdependent."

When we see Aerith's Church, we immediately think: Jesus! because that's the association our western minds make. I'm just suggesting that maybe, for the Japanese game developers, a church is nothing more than a generic place of worship, and no specifically Christian associations were intended.

 

[S and G]

I think a lot of it is down to us overlaying our western religious concepts on game designed by minds raised in an eastern culture. All I kow about Shinto is what I've read in a book, so rather than pretending to be an expert on the subject, I'll just tell you what this guy Mitropolous has to say.

The Japanese word kami (or gami, as in shinigami), is usually translated as 'god' or 'spirit' , but according to somebody called Floyd Hiat Ross who wrote Shinto:The Way of Japan, "kami is more like a spiritual energy that permeates all matter. 'Kami is in nature and man is in nature also, and kami is in man.'"

Apparently the Japanese word "tsumi", which is often translated as "sin", really means something more like "polluted" or "pollution". "Sin" involves conscious choice: we choose to sin, and as a consequence, we are guilty of our sin. But even the innocent can be polluted - and are, in Advent Children. Mitropolous thesis is that just as Jenova "polluted" the Lifestream, so western culture polluted the way of Shinto.

He brings Vincent Valentine into the argument thus: Lucretia is polluted by exposing her body and her fetus to Jenova cells. Vincent is polluted by standing by and allowing this to happen. Just hearing Cloud talk about the things that have happened as a result polluted him even more. He isn't so much trying to atone for his sins as to cleanse himself of the pollution.

The Judaeo-Christian-Muslim tradition sets man in a position of privilege with respect to the rest of the natural (or created) world: the creator God, our father, has delegated to us the control and management of everything He made. This, clearly, is a very Shinra way of looking at the world. According to Mitropolous, Shinto does not put man in this same privileged position, but sees him ina symbiotic relationship with nature:"Spirit energy makes all things possible, trees, birds, and humans. Not just living things. Spirit energy makes it possible for Planets to be Planets". "Such a philosophy does not privilege human life over non-human matter, as the two are interconnected and interdependent."

When we see Aerith's Church, we immediately think: Jesus! because that's the association our western minds make. I'm just suggesting that maybe, for the Japanese game developers, a church is nothing more than a generic place of worship, and no specifically Christian associations were intended.

That was exceptionally interesting, LA. I have no argument with the interpretation and, though raised a Christian myself, have far more interest in the Shinto philosophies yet, like yourself, could not claim to be particularly knowledgeable on the subject.

However, despite what you have written, I must stress again that in addition to a common theme of religion lingering in the background of the Compilation, Case of Nanaki clearly identifies a singular God.

In the event that this was removed, everything else can be explained via the kami philosophy.

 

[jazzflower92]

Funny Headcannonr.Hojo is really from the Futurama universe and used to be a student under Dr.Fansworth.He was one day sucked into the Final Fantasy 7 universe and decided to stay there forever,unfortunatly.Actually this would explain his personality a lot.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

What if Hojo is Dr. Farnsworth!?

 

[jazzflower92]

What if Hojo is Dr. Farnsworth!?

Dr Hojo:Good news everyone I have found a way to come back from the dead again and screw over the world even more.

Although this would explain why he had no qualms about experimenting on his own unborn son.Although if he was Dr.Fansworth he has gotten more openly evil.

Another headconnon is to why Shinra can get away with such unlawful levels of child abuse is because they own the child protective services.Yes,Shinra owns the angencies that are supposed to keep kids out of harms way then that is just messed up.They did say that Shinra did have orphanages as well so they probably do have probably shoddy child protective services.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

@LA and SandG: FFVII has never hit me as having a Western mythology base. It way more reminds me of Eastern mythology, especially Shinto. The way Wutai thinks aboiut Laviathon is a dead give-away.

It also explains why Sephrioth not wanting to join the Lifestream is so bad.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Dr Hojo:Good news everyone I have found a way to come back from the dead again and screw over the world even more.

Although this would explain why he had no qualms about experimenting on his own unborn son.Although if he was Dr.Fansworth he has gotten more openly evil.

Another headconnon is to why Shinra can get away with such unlawful levels of child abuse is because they own the child protective services.Yes,Shinra owns the angencies that are supposed to keep kids out of harms way then that is just messed up.They did say that Shinra did have orphanages as well so they probably do have probably shoddy child protective services.

What evidence is there that they engaged in "unlawful levels of child abuse"?

I know they're bad, but do we really need to make them worse than they are?

 

[jazzflower92]

What evidence is there that they engaged in "unlawful levels of child abuse"?

I know they're bad, but do we really need to make them worse than they are?

Two Wordseepground

Some of the Tsviests were raised by birth to be killers and not to mention Selke herself called Deepground a place that was absolute hell.Since she was there since she was nine years old I can say that is just blatant child abuse right there.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Basically, everything they ever did involved child abuse. Aerith being Hojo's prisoner for seven years, performing SOLDIER procedures on kids as young as 13, Deepground (injecting pregnant women with stagnant mako, letting the colored Tsviets be born and raised in that place, kidnapping Shelke at nine years old and forcing her to undergo experiments that prevented her body from developing beyond that), Cissnei being trained as the youngest Turk ever (as young as she clearly is, she had been a Turk for at least seven years by the end of Before Crisis).

 

[jazzflower92]

Basically, everything they ever did involved child abuse. Aerith being Hojo's prisoner for seven years, performing SOLDIER procedures on kids as young as 13, Deepground (injecting pregnant women with stagnant mako, letting the colored Tsviets be born and raised in that place, kidnapping Shelke at nine years old and forcing her to undergo experiments that prevented her body from developing beyond that), Cissnei being trained as the youngest Turk ever (as young as she clearly is, she had been a Turk for at least seven years by the end of Before Crisis).

Injecting an unborn baby with the cells of a parastic alien and then not caring what the effects happened after they find out that its not a Cetra.

Experimenting on two teenage boys and locking them up into tubes for four years.

Actually now that I think about it Shinra is just horrifying because many of their projects involved babies/children/teenagers who had little or no consent at all.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Elmyra is perfect for Barret
Barret is 35 in FFVII and also a widower.
He adopted Marlene.
If Elmyra was 20 when her husband died, then she’s 35 at FFVII.
She adopted Aerith.
She took care of Marlene and never minded it.
Barret was grateful to both Aerith and Elmyra for taking care of Marlene.
When Aerith died, Elmyra becomes alone.
Marlene looks like Aerith and Cloud’s lovechild looks like Aerith
So if Barret wants to find a new wife, Elmyra would be perfect
Both are widows, both are adults and both love Marlene
Then Elmyra can move into 7th Heaven together with Cloud, Tifa, Denzel in addition to Marlene and Barret
And one big happy combined family


^


NEW OTP

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Elmyra is an elderly lady, actually. I don't have a scan of her character design on hand right this second, but, yeah. Like in her 60s or something.

 

[S and G]

Elmyra is an elderly lady, actually. I don't have a scan of her character design on hand right this second, but, yeah. Like in her 60s or something.

Barret could easily be her exciting toyboy. Literally. Imagine the devices he could attach to that arm...

 

[Danseru-kun]

Elmyra is an elderly lady, actually. I don't have a scan of her character design on hand right this second, but, yeah. Like in her 60s or something.

Hmmm can still pass like she's in her 40's

And love finds a way

 

[I Am Not Me]

I always read in fanfics that she isn't that old. I know fanfics aren't reliable sources for canon fact but because of that it's now my headcanon. She doesn't look that old either. Having a half-Cetra daughter who's pursued by Turks can add a one or two wrinkles to a woman's face.

Was her actual age mentioned anywhere? Seeing this made me curious.

 

[jazzflower92]

I know not everyone might suscribe to this headcannon but I was thinking that maybe Sephiroth and Aerith met when they were young but didn't get to catch each other's names.

I was thinking that maybe Sephiroth when he was young was walking through Hojo's lab,trying to get out as possible,then came across Aerith.He had only a small time to talk with her and left without really catching her name.

 

[eleamaya]

Yeah, I read some nice doujin about that. And whey they walk across each other, is like a path of their destiny settled.

 

[jazzflower92]

Another Headcannon theory that I have is that even though Sephiroth's hatred for Cloud is more prominent he actually has even more hatred for Hojo.Although he hates Cloud to the point it looks erotic he hates Hojo even more and decides that he is so pathetic that he wasn't worth killing.Whenever his hatred for Cloud isn't enough his hatred for Hojo will be his back up plan.

I was thinking another theory that I subscribe to is the fact that I think if Sephiroth was still living he would have actually stayed young and never aged.If the Jenova cells in Lucrecia kept her from dying an aging I think the Jenova cells would have kept Sephiroth from aging.