FFVII: Ever Crisis Announced

[Makoeyes987]

I'm responding to this.

it IS a fair comparison. This is the same moment side by side in both games. Every frame is a painting, etc. and what we're looking at during the scene is the scene

The comparison of those two screenshots isn't a fair representation because the whole game and design ethos are entirely different, given the nature of 3D and scaled camera work. It'd be akin to comparing fixed camera angles to 1st person presentation. The way they are presenting a location's setting art style and scale in the scene along with its scope are not equivalent in these two depictions. Going by just the camera shot, its focused closely on the characters, cutting away the rest of the area, and presumably you'd have seen everything else as you make your way to that moment, seeing the entire Mako Reactor complex along the way as you traveled it.

It's not a static fixed camera angle where it's more akin to a huge background artwork. They've designed the area to scale in 3D, so that you see it all as you go. This is akin to the whole "look at how mundane this elevator in the Mako Reactor is in the Remake compared to the OG'" debate, that happened last year. It's a comparison of apples to oranges. The elevator isn't the entirety of that one area and/or scene, instead they've designed an entire whole complex to scale, inch by inch, with more detail and "character" since they aren't having to make a static background convey or communicate all the uniqueness of a given area. That's why static fixed camera background areas have so much intricity to them.

 

[Tetsujin]

The moment isn't the same, nor is the directional setting, because this isn't pre-rendered backgrounds and fixed camera angle game design

But it is though...

 

[Ite]

I'm responding to this.



The comparison of those two screenshots isn't a fair representation because the whole game and design ethos are entirely different, given the nature of 3D and scaled camera work. It'd be akin to comparing fixed camera angles to 1st person presentation. The way they are presenting a location's setting art style and scale in the scene along with its scope are not equivalent in these two depictions. Going by just the camera shot, its focused closely on the characters, cutting away the rest of the area, and presumably you'd have seen everything else as you make your way to that moment, seeing the entire Mako Reactor complex along the way as you traveled it.

It's not a static fixed camera angle where it's more akin to a huge background artwork. They've designed the area to scale in 3D, so that you see it all as you go. This is akin to the whole "look at how mundane this elevator in the Mako Reactor is in the Remake compared to the OG' debate, that happened last year. It's a comparison of apples to oranges. The elevator isn't the entirety of that one area and scene, instead they've designed an entire whole complex to scale, inch by inch, with more detail and "character" since they aren't having to make a static background convey all the uniqueness of a given area.

If I'm understanding you correctly, EC is both a slam dunk on ppl who wanted a more faithful remake of FF7, and also comparing it to FF7 is like apples to oranges?

You think I'm comparing level design, which I'm not doing. I'm just displaying what is being shown in a single frame. Colours, lighting, composition, what is being visually communicated to us while the dialogue is going on. That's part of the scene.

For comparison, here's the same moment in FF7 Remake:



The scene is told in a completely different way depending on what you do with colour, lighting, and composition.

Here's my comparison again now that we're on a new page. If Remake were the original (as in there was no OG) and there was to be a pocket edition, which of these design choices would you choose for the pocket edition?

Well it should be no secret that I find the shot on the right to be completely underwhelming, devoid of feeling.

If things “must be different” what is EC’s appeal exactly? What does it bring to the table that Remake didn't?

 

[Makoeyes987]

I didn't say it's a slam dunk at all, I'm saying this is such a thinly sliced piece of the scene and moment in the story, especially it's background setting, that comparing it to the entire fixed background of the OG is completely misleading. You have to actually see the whole scene and the totally of the location itself before comparing it's fidelity and design since this is a 3 dimensional game scaled to the size and camerawork of the area in question.

Like I said, it's akin to taking one small fractal snapshot of a tiny part of a floorspace space, and comparing it to a panoramic showroom photograph of the entire space as a design artwork. Of course one will look more mundane. They're not the same thing artistically or design-wise because they're directionally, not the same thing.

3D game design is not the same as 2D fixed camera game design that has to convey the setting, character, and "style" of a space in one large panoramic background artwork at once, versus scaling a 3D space to explore and see as you traverse it through the game, piece by piece.

 

[Tetsujin]

The backgrounds are absolutely prerendered 2D images, just based on the 3D assets of Remake.

It's literally the same as the OG, static backgrounds for the field maps, 3D environments for the battles.

That wall that partially covers Cloud even has weird fringes because it's a foreground element and it's probably been slightly improperly cut out or there's transparency issues idk but you see that in the PS1 FF games as well, especially when playing on non-native hardware iirc

 

[Makoeyes987]

You think that's just static background artwork? That looks like 3D to me, especially with how the trailer made it look as well. That doesn't look like something just pasted with assets and transposed into a simple background artwork for the models to walk on, like the PSone game. It looks like it is rendered in 3 dimensions. It's rough around the edges but it definitely doesn't look flat.

 

[Ite]

I edited my post while you were typing yours, so I don't know if you want to respond to any of that. But in both the PS1 and EC versions, the scene begins with a fixed camera panning down. What we see, frame-by-frame, is fully up to the visual storytellers in all three games. I disagree that it's not a fair comparison.

 

[Tetsujin]

You think that's just static background artwork? That looks like 3D to me, especially with how the trailer made it look as well. That doesn't look like something just pasted with assets and transposed into a simple background artwork for the models to walk on, like the PSone game. It looks like it is rendered in 3 dimensions. It's rough around the edges but it definitely doesn't look flat.

It does. It absolutely does.

Looking at the screenshots on my big screen it's super obvious how flat and compressed the backgrounds are. It's a stark contrast to the battle graphics.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Hmmm, I'm looking at the trailer again....

And I think I may have been fooled because I'm looking at it closely now and noticing what Tets is talking about

What threw me off were the character's shadows and the range of motion they were doing in the scenes and stuff, like sitting at the barstool. But as I look at the interactions more, such as the ground beneath their feet within the environment, yeah... It in fact does look more like they took the 3D assets of the Remake and rendered them into a static 2D image. The characters sorta look like they're "floating," despite the shadow and lighting being clever enough to trick me at first glance.

But in both the PS1 and EC versions, the scene begins with a fixed camera panning down. What we see, frame-by-frame, is fully up to the visual storytellers in all three games. I disagree that it's not a fair comparison.

I see what you're talking about now, and apparently this isn't 3D rendering ala Opera Omnia like I thought it was. So honestly it is a fair comparison.

Like Tets said, this is just taking the 3D assets from the Remake and flattening them to make a 2D background. I'll give them credit for fooling me for a bit, but that is a bit disappointing. It's pre-rendered background versus pre-rendered background so... Yeah, I guess it is a fair comparison lol

Well, at least the 3D battle areas look incredible, and the models are cute in a chibi design aesthetic.

 

[cold_spirit]

The original game does give a nice view of the reactor core, but the zoomed-in view of Ever Crisis will bring the audience closer to the characters and highlight their animations. Furthermore, from the Ever Crisis trailer, the camera pans down from the reactor core before stopping at the spot shown above, so it's not like that element is completely absent. The camera also captures a different view of the mako pit, which changes the audience's relationship with the room as well. I'm not saying either is better. Though I feel this is a moot point. Cutting down the game to around 10 mobile chapters means we're going to be missing out on A LOT more important things than camera angles. The feeling of reaching the world map? Discovery a sidequest? All likely gone. I don't see this as a replacement for the original game, it's a digest.

So, what exactly is EC bringing to the table that Remake didn't?

Hmmm, comparing a mobile title to Remake, a modern AAA video game, is not something I would do. The appeal of Ever Crisis is that it’s free and accessible. The perfect gateway for getting into the rest of the series.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I still think it's not quite fair as "game sequences" aren't 2D images. They're more like movies in that way. You really only get a feel for the changes when you watch the same sequence in two different games and compare them.

And so far, we have no "game sequences" of Ever Crisis yet. You can cherry pick all kinds of things to make them look a certain way at the moment. Take the opening scene of Zack from CC in Ever Crisis. That... is a lot more complicated than what the OG did. We also have a totally different look for battle, so who knows how that will effect things. Heck, we don't even know what the "cutscenes" will look like yet!

 

[Makoeyes987]

The thing Ever Crisis is bringing to the table is accessibility.

It might bring a fun turn-style based combat system utilizing the FFVII-R assets and character designs. I also love the character artwork portraits, and chibi models. I think those are worthwhile aspects it brings to the table. The background design is lacking in places, but I can forgive that if it's able to bring stories from games like Before Crisis for us to experience.

It's not a perfect recreation but it could still be fun. If it emphasizes and excels at what it's really going for, the muted background maps might be a fair "price" for everything else.

 

[Tetsujin]

I just realized that Before Crisis will probably be the most faithful remake in this game.
It already was a mobile title, had 2d topdown backgrounds, I think it was pretty linear and also divided into chapters.

This will be in stark contrast to the AC portion where it's 100% adaptation what with the original being an entirely different medium.

 

[cold_spirit]

I feel like we missed a ton of info in this thread.

Gematsu updated their article with official blurbs from SE.

https://www.gematsu.com/2021/03/no-...ver-crisis-chapters-will-be-free-more-tidbits

Costumes, Midgar will be three chapters, special dungeons to use your dream team, a new soundtrack, young versions of Shinra staff. Lots of good stuff.

Final Fantasy VII: Ever Crisis

• You will be able to play the chapters released for free. The monetized element is basically loot boxes containing random weapons. Some of the special weapons also come as a set that includes new costumes that were not in the original games, adding in a new way to enjoy the story that you won’t have seen before.”
• “We are trying to fit the story of the original Final Fantasy VII into 10 chapters. To be a bit more specific, the team will escape from Midgar in chapter 3. I think that should give you an idea of how much the other titles will cover as well.”
• There will be completely new, original episodes. “The first one will be a new episode we are working on that covers the story behind Final Fantasy VII: The First Soldier that was announced at the same time. The events of Final Fantasy VII: The First Soldier take place around 30 years before the Final Fantasy VII: Ever Crisis main story, and go into the founding of SOLDIER, so it goes without saying that you will see some of the legendary heroes in their younger days, as well as younger versions of the future Shinra executives and other characters who will appear in the Final Fantasy VII Remake sequels.”
• “The game has a story mode where you will follow Cloud and the gang on their journeys, but also features special dungeons and battles that go outside of the timeline delineated by the various compilation titles. These will allow players to enjoy taking on the mightiest enemies from the series using their dream party, in ways that the story battles do not allow.”
• “The music is all based on the originals, but has been newly arranged for Final Fantasy VII: Ever Crisis.”
• “We have also seen that people want to be able to play the various different series titles on the current console hardware, so the design concept behind Final Fantasy VII: Ever Crisis is not intended to be a replacement for that, but a convenient and casual way to touch on these games.”
• Regarding all the recent news on Final Fantasy VII: “It seems like I will be having a busy time for the foreseeable future, not just this year but next year and the year after that.”
• Update 2:45 p.m.: Square Enix has released an official translation. The bullets above has been replaced with the company’s officially translated quotes

 

[Tetsujin]

“We have also seen that people want to be able to play the various different series titles on the current console hardware, so the design concept behind Final Fantasy VII: Ever Crisis is not intended to be a replacement for that, but a convenient and casual way to touch on these games.”

I guess there is yet hope for HD remasters. =p

 

[Theozilla]

Definitely also seems like 2023 is the earliest Part 2 is coming out. Though admittedly Nomura will likely be busy with FFVII Remake for a good number of years even after 2023.

Presuming the time gap between the PS5 and PS6 will be at least 7 years (which has been the trend so far with PS3-PS4 and PS4-PS5), I wonder if Nomura and SE expects and/or are confident that they can complete the Remake project before the PS6 comes out (or maybe finish it like half-a-year to a year after the PS6 comes out?).

Maybe I should make a poll for people to guess which year the final Remake part will come out?

 

[Obsidian Fire]

There will be completely new, original episodes. “The first one will be a new episode we are working on that covers the story behind Final Fantasy VII: The First Soldier that was announced at the same time.

I find it very interesting they are implying there will be more than one original episode...

“The game has a story mode where you will follow Cloud and the gang on their journeys, but also features special dungeons and battles that go outside of the timeline delineated by the various compilation titles. These will allow players to enjoy taking on the mightiest enemies from the series using their dream party, in ways that the story battles do not allow.”

This is very similar to how Opera Omnia's different kinds of battles function.

 

[Shademp]

Well, I'm blind. I didn't see the compressed Meteor in the logo until it was pointed out to me. That looks absolutely horrible.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It was better when I thought it was just a slash from the Buster Sword...

 

[cold_spirit]

Noooooo, now I'll never unsee it.

Wow even the logo illustrates that Ever Crisis is a compressed version of the OG.

 

[Torrie]

I thought it was a meteor-like mako leak. Or a very weird meteor-like shadow. But now that we can see it really IS the meteor...

 

[Shademp]

And for some reason they stretched the original orb/materia from the FFVII logo so that now it is instead like a mini-meteor between the words FINAL and FANTASY.

 

[Wol]

Ever Crisis logo looks so cheap and uninspired. I know having Amano drawing your logo is expensive, but goddamn what a boring logo.

 

[Torrie]

Just the buster sword alone would be totally fine. It's arguably as important a symbol as the meteor in the compilation lore.

 

[looneymoon]

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