SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 15 Spoiler Discussion
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Alex Strife
Ex-SOLDIER
I was pretty disappointed about the golden shiny wire of hope. Damn it, Square!!
I mean, it wasn't a big thing or anything but it was a: "Oh no they removed that
" moment.
Honestly, the lighting was nice and all but... the skybox. Once you've seen it, it's hard to ignore the low quality compared to the rest of the assets. I wonder if they'll fix it...?
I mean, it wasn't a big thing or anything but it was a: "Oh no they removed that
" moment.Honestly, the lighting was nice and all but... the skybox. Once you've seen it, it's hard to ignore the low quality compared to the rest of the assets. I wonder if they'll fix it...?
Teioh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Teiocho
I got a Bahamut loading card at the end of this chapter but have yet to get my hands on the materia. Did I miss it?
Also the Valkyrie part where you couldn't fight it was annoying. Just take it down Barret & Tifa whilst it's focused on Cloud!
Yeah, it's pretty bad. I kept stopping to take in the scenery but that skybox was distracting.
Also the Valkyrie part where you couldn't fight it was annoying. Just take it down Barret & Tifa whilst it's focused on Cloud!
Yeah, it's pretty bad. I kept stopping to take in the scenery but that skybox was distracting.
Tetsujin
he/they
- AKA
- Tets
You can still get it in the next chapter
cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
I'm keeping a log of my thoughts after each chapter. Here's Chapter 15!
- Another chapter that focuses on combat and exploration. Good thing I like both those things!
- Here's my (joke) justification for the low resolution skyboxes: They're obviously a reference to the PC version of the original game. Remember how crisp Cloud's blocky character model looked when you cranked up the resolution? Remember how it clashed with the low resolution backgrounds, like you were walking across a painting? Well now you get to experience that jarring display in 2020! Just like before, take control of a highly detailed character model, explore a 3D space, and enjoy exciting new pixelated views around every corner! Really thoughtful of Square to include this as a throwback, it should calm those who feel the remake deviates too far from the original
- The walkie talkie that Cloud and Barret pick up is old school, yet I remember Heidegger using a sleek smartphone. It's funny how technological advances in reality affect fiction. Smartphones are now part of FF7's world, yet Cloud used a flip phone in Advent Children
- I think I caused Valkyrie to hit itself with its satellite beam. This seemed to stagger it. Not sure, it all happened so fast!
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Theozilla
Kaiju Member
If I remember from recent interviews, some of the technological dissonance is deliberate to show the class difference in Midgar, like with the slums using older TVs, while upper plate uses more modern TVs. Also walkie-talkies are still used today in many settings military and not, since short-wave radio communication has its own utility.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
This chapter was an awesome creative way to showcase how the team made it up top over the ruins of the plate. Very fun and creative. I literally jumped when I first encountered a SOLDIER 3rd Class. They like, ninja-appeared in front of me XDDD
However, Cloud still had elemental-fire materia on his Hardedge so they summarily died pretty quickly. Tifa beat the shit out of them too.
Poor SOLDIERs. They folded so fast. Like laundry.
So far, my favorite summon is the Fat Chocobo. I don't know why but it's attacks make me laugh every time, and it's ultimate attack just fucking tickles me on a spiritual level. The moogles crossing their arms in unison. Their determined expression. The way they lift it high into the sky. The fat chocobo's confused expression, and just. The drop.
It's so fucking silly and cartoony. And the graphics are just like, the perfect mix of whimsical fantasy and realism. Its so perfect.
Homeboy Ifrit still gets used along with Shiva when I need that elemental edge but almost all my summons have been Fat Chocobo. I hardly have even used Choco/Mog
I guess I just like them thick
However, Cloud still had elemental-fire materia on his Hardedge so they summarily died pretty quickly. Tifa beat the shit out of them too.
Poor SOLDIERs. They folded so fast. Like laundry.
So far, my favorite summon is the Fat Chocobo. I don't know why but it's attacks make me laugh every time, and it's ultimate attack just fucking tickles me on a spiritual level. The moogles crossing their arms in unison. Their determined expression. The way they lift it high into the sky. The fat chocobo's confused expression, and just. The drop.
It's so fucking silly and cartoony. And the graphics are just like, the perfect mix of whimsical fantasy and realism. Its so perfect.
Homeboy Ifrit still gets used along with Shiva when I need that elemental edge but almost all my summons have been Fat Chocobo. I hardly have even used Choco/Mog
I guess I just like them thick
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
Low quality skybox aside, this chapter was really pretty! The lighting was beautiful! The remake really managed to sell the scope of the plate-fall in a way the original never could, and I think this chapter was a major improvement as a result. No more squeaky pole jumping, at least.
EDIT: okay, my pipe dream of finishing the game today isn't happening. I'm too tired. Will beat it tomorrow.
EDIT: okay, my pipe dream of finishing the game today isn't happening. I'm too tired. Will beat it tomorrow.
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Teioh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Teiocho
But the squeaky pole jump was the best bit!
I mastered that jump, it's one of my greatest achievements. That squeaky pole made me into the chandelier-hopping gamer I am today. How will the new generation of gamers learn these skills I ask you?? You will be missed squeaky pole
I'm so glad there wasn't a squeaky pole jumping bit.
Erotic Materia
[CONFUSED SCREAMING]
You're not alone! I'm 90% certain that the satellite beam was actually it's killing blow when I fought it
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Yeah I think that was the idea of satellite beam tracking you. I staggered it with that. Then finished it off with Ascension, which Cloud started with "Let's dance, asshole." What an incredibly badass way to finish a boss.
I don't know what the hell a skybox is, but I thought the scenery in this chapter was [morbidly] gorgeous.
I don't know what the hell a skybox is, but I thought the scenery in this chapter was [morbidly] gorgeous.
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
Just finished this chapter today, and quite enjoyed it. I never really liked the shiny wire of hope from the OG--I'm solidly neutral on that whole segment--so this was a considerable step up. For some reason the enemies here hit me way harder than anything up until this point, so I actually spend some gil on armour. It certainly didn't help that I insisted on using Barret's cannonball even though the terrain called for a long ranged weapon, but I made it work.
Shademp
420
- The music when Heligunner/"The Valkyrie" starts chasing you is my goddamn JAM! *devil horns*
- *opens chest with Antidote inside before I know the Valkyrie battle is coming up*
"Hmm... Are they trying to tell me that this boss battle will have status effects? ...Nah, they wouldn't take that much care for the game design."
*proceeds to open another chest, this time with Remedy inside it*
"Oh my goodness are they actually telling me that this mech-based enemy will throw status ailments on me?!"
*battle with The Valkyrie starts*
"Well whaddaya know!"
I've observed moments where the game is good at dishing out extra materia just in case that you don't have the appropriate one at hand but this is the first time I noticed such clearly intentional placement of status restoratives. So satisfied that these restoratives were intentionally placed.
- It was great that the menu map actually showed how many meters upwards you had advanced.
- The transition between Ch14 and Ch15 makes it seem like the game instantly moved from daytime to dusk. While there *could* have been some inbetween climbing where time passed, that's not the impression I got which is what makes the sudden time shift a bit jarring.
- Are those survivor NPCs meant to be topsiders who were on the plate as it fell? I don't see any other reason for them to be here. Finding it a real challenge to visualize how any of them could have survived, even taking into consideration how not everything of the plate dropped freefall 300 metres.
- "We'll build another bar." That's a nice nod to the post-OG timeline.
- Chapter 6 definitely had me experiencing more moments of fearing the heights, but Ch15 had a few of these as well. The parts where platforms were leaning and there were no railings had me feeling nervous. *gulp*
- When you're about to use the grappling gun on coiled ropes (I don't get it what makes these coiled ropes so good targets) and Barret said "By the way, how well you do with this grappling gun will tell us a whole lot about you." I thought for sure that a minigame would ensue and that I would embarrass myself. Thankful that I was saved from this indignity. I wonder if a minigame *was* planned and that's where Barret's line came from but that they ultimately scrapped the idea.
I feel like this whole thing about aiming for the coiled ropes was a low-key reference to the timing-based pole-rope minigame in the OG.
- Surprised that they not only kept the SOLDIER helmets that completely block out the sight of anyone using it (SOLDIER = JEDI confirmed) and that they covered up the faces with black masks. I have no strong opinions about it, other than appreciating that Square continues to prove that they are not afraid of weird enemy designs.
- It's weird to think of Roche being in the same class as these dangerous-but-quickly-disposed-of 3rd Class SOLDIERs you encounter in Ch15. Could be that Roche hasn't been recruited to a higher class because of his antics though. In my headcanon, Cloud's battle skills at the start of the game is closer to that of a 3rd Class- or 2nd Class SOLDIER but that throughout this game and the subsequent ones he works his way up towards true 1st Class levels of skill. In the same vein, I imagine that Cloud's fight with Roche made it easier for him to deal with the 3rd Class operatives in Ch15.
- Feeling sorry for all the Shinra infantrymen forced to work in this unsafe environment. Pretty definitely none of them wanted to be in this ridiculously hazardous area but oh well, gotta follow orders.
- This car in the middle of all the rubble amuses me.
- BARRET YOU GODDAMN IDIOT WHY DID YOU SHOUT INTO THE WALKIE-TALKIE?!?!?!
Okay we all know why. What's impressive to me is that this moment could easily be a dealbreaker for people, in the way that many "the characters are acting too stupid" moments may be dealbreakers. But because this game connects you much more intimately with the emotions of each character I don't have that hard a time with this scene. You'd think that Barret would be smarter because of the high stakes involved but when you remember all the heavy losses they've suffered, the lingering shock of the plate drop and Barret's temper it actually becomes a decently reasonable scene. Thankfully they played it for humor a bit by having the call end right before Barret starts shouting into the communicator. That and the brief moment when Tifa supports him and Barret takes a few deep breaths made my heart melt again.
I think if the same scene had happened in the original game I would have considered it unforgivable due to how the entire presentation is so different compared between the OG and FFVIIR.
The scene also set up for me how I think the Remake might handle how Cloud becomes the "leader". In the original game Barret has this moment on the Highwind, shortly before Cid is selected as the official leader:
While the Remake series may not place this moment of insight as early as when the team leaves Midgar, I imagine in FFVIIR that Barret will acknowledge that Cloud's near-supernatural level-headedness (sans his moments of spazzing out) makes him leader material. Barret's temper, like when he shouted into the communicator, isn't something a good leader should do.
- A continuing shame how the skybox/groundbox/globular-box may looks bad in contrast with the actual 3D environments. That said, on its own the skybox is drop-dead gorgeous and I spend a lot of time taking in the sights. Watching the wastelands and mountains in the distance makes me dream of all the things that exist beyond Midgar.
- I was so freightened that the game would turn ultra-stupid and have Wedge die in Ch15 instead by sacrificing himself so the team could make it topside. So relieved they didn't do that here. Hopefully the later chapters don't try to convince us that the injured Wedge is able to make it topside the same way that team CBT did.
- Considering Barret's reasonable fear of heights (a good callback to Ch6) I feel like he wasn't nearly as shaken enough by all those over-the-top Spiderman-esque grappling gun moments near the end. They went a bit too far with these Spiderman-type scenes for my liking. When characters are falling to their doom, or about to do so, for extended periods of time I just end up stop feeling anything at all.
- *opens chest with Antidote inside before I know the Valkyrie battle is coming up*
"Hmm... Are they trying to tell me that this boss battle will have status effects? ...Nah, they wouldn't take that much care for the game design."
*proceeds to open another chest, this time with Remedy inside it*
"Oh my goodness are they actually telling me that this mech-based enemy will throw status ailments on me?!"
*battle with The Valkyrie starts*
"Well whaddaya know!"
I've observed moments where the game is good at dishing out extra materia just in case that you don't have the appropriate one at hand but this is the first time I noticed such clearly intentional placement of status restoratives. So satisfied that these restoratives were intentionally placed.
- It was great that the menu map actually showed how many meters upwards you had advanced.
- The transition between Ch14 and Ch15 makes it seem like the game instantly moved from daytime to dusk. While there *could* have been some inbetween climbing where time passed, that's not the impression I got which is what makes the sudden time shift a bit jarring.
The transition into nighttime in Ch16 is handled way better, since by the end of Ch15 you know that the party has over 100 metres left to climb.
- Are those survivor NPCs meant to be topsiders who were on the plate as it fell? I don't see any other reason for them to be here. Finding it a real challenge to visualize how any of them could have survived, even taking into consideration how not everything of the plate dropped freefall 300 metres.
- "We'll build another bar." That's a nice nod to the post-OG timeline.
- Chapter 6 definitely had me experiencing more moments of fearing the heights, but Ch15 had a few of these as well. The parts where platforms were leaning and there were no railings had me feeling nervous. *gulp*
- When you're about to use the grappling gun on coiled ropes (I don't get it what makes these coiled ropes so good targets) and Barret said "By the way, how well you do with this grappling gun will tell us a whole lot about you." I thought for sure that a minigame would ensue and that I would embarrass myself. Thankful that I was saved from this indignity. I wonder if a minigame *was* planned and that's where Barret's line came from but that they ultimately scrapped the idea.
I feel like this whole thing about aiming for the coiled ropes was a low-key reference to the timing-based pole-rope minigame in the OG.
- Surprised that they not only kept the SOLDIER helmets that completely block out the sight of anyone using it (SOLDIER = JEDI confirmed) and that they covered up the faces with black masks. I have no strong opinions about it, other than appreciating that Square continues to prove that they are not afraid of weird enemy designs.
- It's weird to think of Roche being in the same class as these dangerous-but-quickly-disposed-of 3rd Class SOLDIERs you encounter in Ch15. Could be that Roche hasn't been recruited to a higher class because of his antics though. In my headcanon, Cloud's battle skills at the start of the game is closer to that of a 3rd Class- or 2nd Class SOLDIER but that throughout this game and the subsequent ones he works his way up towards true 1st Class levels of skill. In the same vein, I imagine that Cloud's fight with Roche made it easier for him to deal with the 3rd Class operatives in Ch15.
- Feeling sorry for all the Shinra infantrymen forced to work in this unsafe environment. Pretty definitely none of them wanted to be in this ridiculously hazardous area but oh well, gotta follow orders.
- This car in the middle of all the rubble amuses me.
- BARRET YOU GODDAMN IDIOT WHY DID YOU SHOUT INTO THE WALKIE-TALKIE?!?!?!
Okay we all know why. What's impressive to me is that this moment could easily be a dealbreaker for people, in the way that many "the characters are acting too stupid" moments may be dealbreakers. But because this game connects you much more intimately with the emotions of each character I don't have that hard a time with this scene. You'd think that Barret would be smarter because of the high stakes involved but when you remember all the heavy losses they've suffered, the lingering shock of the plate drop and Barret's temper it actually becomes a decently reasonable scene. Thankfully they played it for humor a bit by having the call end right before Barret starts shouting into the communicator. That and the brief moment when Tifa supports him and Barret takes a few deep breaths made my heart melt again.
I think if the same scene had happened in the original game I would have considered it unforgivable due to how the entire presentation is so different compared between the OG and FFVIIR.
The scene also set up for me how I think the Remake might handle how Cloud becomes the "leader". In the original game Barret has this moment on the Highwind, shortly before Cid is selected as the official leader:
{Barret}
“Every group's gotta have a leader.”
“An' that's me!”
“Or at least I wanna be...
But I ain't cut out to be no leader.”
“I never knew that till lately.”
While the Remake series may not place this moment of insight as early as when the team leaves Midgar, I imagine in FFVIIR that Barret will acknowledge that Cloud's near-supernatural level-headedness (sans his moments of spazzing out) makes him leader material. Barret's temper, like when he shouted into the communicator, isn't something a good leader should do.
- A continuing shame how the skybox/groundbox/globular-box may looks bad in contrast with the actual 3D environments. That said, on its own the skybox is drop-dead gorgeous and I spend a lot of time taking in the sights. Watching the wastelands and mountains in the distance makes me dream of all the things that exist beyond Midgar.
- I was so freightened that the game would turn ultra-stupid and have Wedge die in Ch15 instead by sacrificing himself so the team could make it topside. So relieved they didn't do that here. Hopefully the later chapters don't try to convince us that the injured Wedge is able to make it topside the same way that team CBT did.
- Considering Barret's reasonable fear of heights (a good callback to Ch6) I feel like he wasn't nearly as shaken enough by all those over-the-top Spiderman-esque grappling gun moments near the end. They went a bit too far with these Spiderman-type scenes for my liking. When characters are falling to their doom, or about to do so, for extended periods of time I just end up stop feeling anything at all.
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Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
pls never call Cloud, Tifa, and Barret "CBT" again, k thnx. Ignore me, I'm a child
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Nanaki Skywalker
Kate Lord of the Sith
- AKA
- Tarkatan Trash
I must say that all this grapple gun shit reminds me of the Batman Arkham series, purely from a gameplay standpoint.
snatchr
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Snatchr
Fangu
Great Old One
My boyfriend pointet out these two things to me. I thought the first was pretty hilarious (and might be very true!), the second happened by accident and it didn't occur to me straight away what might have caused the Stagger.
I enjoyed this chapter, it was a slow and steady climb with not too hard enemies and interesting maps. I guess there's not much to say, which is probably why this chapter thread only has 1 page
One thing though is at 160 meters above ground, bf pointet out "only 140 to go!" (as it was mentioned the plates hover 300 meters above ground) and I was like "oh jesus long chapter is long..." but then turnes out the last 100+ meters are free. Which is good, I thought the climbing was of decent length. Err, height. I like "BTC"
Smoothie King
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Pat
They managed to take one of the most frustrating portions of the original and turn it into one of the most beautifully designed gaming set pieces I have ever seen. Every ten seconds I would find myself looking around in amazement. Very well done.
Mayo Master
Pro Adventurer
Hey, I had finished this chapter yesterday, so time to share some impressions... although, once more most folks have expressed the same feelings that I had 
- So, no "shiny golden wire of hope". Oh well. Not a big loss, IMO, I too feel like this is a step up from the OG.
- Personally I think the 'dusk' transition was pretty good - I didn't find it jarring. I mean, that's the best you're going to get if you don't have dynamic lighting, right? So to me that was alright.
- To quote a very wise man
- I too was surprised to find people roaming around the ruins. Could it be even statistically feasible to have that many people surviving the plate-fall? That was weird.
- I was surprised to encounter SOLDIERS 3rd class at that point in the game. I completely agree with Shademp's assessment on their strength relative to the party members, as well as how Roche must be standing among them (and why he never got promoted).
- GODDAMMIT BARRET WOULD YOU JUST SHUT UP!? Oh, someone beat me to it. It felt odd at first, but then you realize that it falls in line with his defining characteristic of 'having a short fuse'. Likewise, I think that's a scene that is pretty much setting up the post-Midgar discussion where Cloud takes the leadership of the group. Even in the OG, when Tifa and Aerith vote for Cloud to become the party leader, Barret comes to terms with it pretty quickly.
- When I saw theHeligunner Valkyrie showing up, I was surprised to see it appear before the Shinra building. I was readying myself for a tough fight right away. I didn't mind the sections 'outside of combat' where you need to dodge the bursts of bullets. To me that was an interesting lead to the boss fight.
- There was one sequence near the end where Cloud is running on a crumbling platform, facing the camera, it reminded me so much of the end of Uncharted 2!
- The cutscene where they rescue Barret with the grappling gun was a little too over-the-top for my tastes. IMO that's the sort of stuff that is contributing to gameplay/cutscene dissonance. It's so 'unbelievable' that you actually don't really feel actual danger, it's weird. But that's probably the only thing that bothered me in this chapter.
Overall I enjoyed this chapter. While not necessarily being the most memorable chapter, I think it fulfilled its purpose pretty well. It also makes a very good transition for getting to the Shinra building in the early hours of the night.
- So, no "shiny golden wire of hope". Oh well. Not a big loss, IMO, I too feel like this is a step up from the OG.
- Personally I think the 'dusk' transition was pretty good - I didn't find it jarring. I mean, that's the best you're going to get if you don't have dynamic lighting, right? So to me that was alright.
- To quote a very wise man
- Yeah, I spent some time just gawking at the scenery.Prompto said:
- I too was surprised to find people roaming around the ruins. Could it be even statistically feasible to have that many people surviving the plate-fall? That was weird.
- I was surprised to encounter SOLDIERS 3rd class at that point in the game. I completely agree with Shademp's assessment on their strength relative to the party members, as well as how Roche must be standing among them (and why he never got promoted).
- GODDAMMIT BARRET WOULD YOU JUST SHUT UP!? Oh, someone beat me to it. It felt odd at first, but then you realize that it falls in line with his defining characteristic of 'having a short fuse'. Likewise, I think that's a scene that is pretty much setting up the post-Midgar discussion where Cloud takes the leadership of the group. Even in the OG, when Tifa and Aerith vote for Cloud to become the party leader, Barret comes to terms with it pretty quickly.
- When I saw the
- There was one sequence near the end where Cloud is running on a crumbling platform, facing the camera, it reminded me so much of the end of Uncharted 2!
- The cutscene where they rescue Barret with the grappling gun was a little too over-the-top for my tastes. IMO that's the sort of stuff that is contributing to gameplay/cutscene dissonance. It's so 'unbelievable' that you actually don't really feel actual danger, it's weird. But that's probably the only thing that bothered me in this chapter.
Overall I enjoyed this chapter. While not necessarily being the most memorable chapter, I think it fulfilled its purpose pretty well. It also makes a very good transition for getting to the Shinra building in the early hours of the night.